Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

The people and the government are not the same thing. Once again, you're making the same pitch as progressive statists. Does the irony ever occur to you?

Yes, the government is the people. We elect representatives to carry out our will. And don't try that "progressive" guilt trip on me. It is YOU that are on the side of progressives--not me.

No, it's like saying that I, and my neighbors, have the right to share our homes with whomever we please.

And we conservatives have the same right not to share our property with anybody.

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.
One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:
  • Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)

  • Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)

  • Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)

  • Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)

  • Medicaid

  • Medicare

  • Social Security

  • Welfare
Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:
  • Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid

  • Schooling

  • Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)
In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

I appreciate the time you took in creating this post.
BUT,
You miss a very important item.
Illegals can easily get IDs that make them seem to be legals. Using those documents allows them to apply for and receive many of the benefits outlined in your post.

I personally know this to be a fact!
 
So how many ladder crossers do you suppose were successful with the walls we have today?
The success of getting over a border barrier depends on how well it's monitored. Barriers don't stop migrants, they only slow them down. The Southern California border wall had border patrol vehicles running less than 5 mins apart and were very successful. Around El Paeso they ran about 15 to 20 mins apart and there were a lots of crossings. What it really amounts to is the more guards you have monitoring the border, the more people you will apprehend.

When we learned of the Caravan and where they were heading, our military and border patrol erected make-shift walls to keep them out. They hurled rocks and bottles at our agents (because that's what nannies and gardeners do) and broke down the wall; not one ladder.

If they didn't create those temporary barriers, thousands and thousands would have entered this country and little to stop them. But because they did put those barriers up, they were able to get enough personnel there to stop and arrest those who broke through it.

How come you suppose those caravans showed up AFTER Obama left office?

Because they are not all that knowledgable of our politics. They do know "however" the role our MSM plays in politics, and expected that to be their free ticket. Look at how Trump had to cave when the MSM made phony reports how Trump was responsible for the separation of children from the adults (some claim were parents).

When the Caravan was half-way to the US, it was reported others were forming; into the millions. After Trump stopped the caravan, those others seemed to have disappeared. A strong enough deterrent works every time it's tried.

Did it dawn on you at any point that the caravans were financed by rich guys like Trump, Soros, and Murdoch? Are you really that naive that you don't know when they are playing you?

Can you, in any way, shape, or form, PROVE that President Trump had anything to do with financing this or any other similar movement?

Just one.
 
If you really believe that, I have a bridge for sale if interested.

The disagreement is Democrats don't want any barrier that works the best and can't be removed.
If democrats welcomed illegal immigration or didn't want a barrier against, why would democrats support the 2006 Border Fence Act which authorized 700 hundred miles of reinforced fences and why would democrats in congress support a bill that doubled the size of the border patrol and why would Bill Clinton sign a law that denies federal funds to undocumented immigrants and why would Obama, remove 2.5 million illegal immigrants. I think your claims are based on supposition, not facts.

Oh yeah?

Then where is that 700 miles of border fence?

Why are they fighting so hard to keep their sanctuary cities and now states?

Why did they stop Kate's Law in the Senate when Democrats had leadership?

Why do they provide illegals with drivers licenses in their states and allow their kids to attend school?

LA Times

Court Deportations Drop 43 Percent in Past Five Years

Report: 42 percent of new Medicaid signups are immigrants, their children

The Democrats can't say they are for illegals, so they put on this dog and pony show for the sheep that can't see beyond their BS.

People sling numbers around like they were picked from air. Here is an article that disputes the numbers. But, might I remind you that radio commentators are claiming that $5 BILLION DOLLARS is a drop in the bucket of federal spending.

How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment

Herein is the irony. Ray and those like him vehemently defend the 14th Amendment, yet the Courts have ruled that if you're born here you are a citizen - as per the 14th Amendment. The money he is bitching about is used to the benefit of what will be "legal" American citizens.

Ray, had your kind stayed out of the fight, patriots were busy getting rid of the 14th Amendment. Without it, this issue would have been taken off the table. So, what are you REALLY whining about?

Quick reply here.

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”. When you say "courts" then specify the case, ruling and then we can discuss it.


Irrelevant counselor.

Children of Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S.: Rights and Opportunities - Lawyers.com

Also:

"there are many people within the United States who believe that children of illegal immigrants should not be given U.S. citizenship status. They argue that allowing such children citizenship was not the original intent of the drafters of the 14th Amendment (who didn't even address the topic of immigration, because no limits then existed on who could enter the United States in the first place..."

Can the Child of an Undocumented Immigrant Become a U.S. Citizen?

Then there is this:

"In recent years, some have argued the 14th amendment does not apply to children whose parents are undocumented.

"It's not the mainstream understanding," Sanders said. "But some have argued that the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' excludes children whose parents are not legal residents."

The argument is that because the child's parents remain in the U.S. illegally, they are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and neither are their children.

"As I said, that's not the mainstream understanding of the 14th amendment," Sanders said.

Excluding children of undocumented immigrants from birthright citizenship would require either a new amendment to the constitution or for the Supreme Court to decide the current constitution excludes such children."

Birthright citizenship applies to children of undocumented immigrants

The laws that specifically address citizenship are very clear.


Definition of Child

IN GENERAL, a child for citizenship and naturalization provisions is an unmarried person who is:
  • The genetic, legitimated, or adopted son or daughter of a U.S. citizen; or
  • The son or daughter of a non-genetic gestational U.S. citizen mother who is recognized by the relevant jurisdiction as the child’s legal parent.

Children residing outside of the United States may obtain citizenship under Section 322 of the INA. A child who regularly resides outside of the United States is eligible for naturalization if all of the following conditions have been met:
  • The child has at least one parent, including an adoptive parent, who is a U.S. citizen by birth or through naturalization;
  • The child’s U.S. citizen parent or U.S. citizen grandparent meets certain physical presence requirements in the United States or an outlying possession;
  • The child is under 18 years of age;
  • The child is residing outside of the United States in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent, or of a person who does not object to the application if the U.S. citizen parent is deceased; and
  • The child is lawfully admitted, physically present, and maintaining a lawful status in the United States at the time the application is approved and the time of naturalization.
SOURCE: Are you the foreign-born child of a parent who becomes a U.S. citizen?

Why it’s so important to actually do the research on the laws surrounding citizenship, knowledge of the original intent when interpreting the 14th Amendment when it was written, as well as our nation’s history surrounding immigration enforcement and dictation from Supreme Court cases surrounding immigration enforcement.
 
My reply (if you were following) was in reference to the Federal law of citizenship VS those who sneak across our southern border illegally.

OK. And I'm pointing out those issues have nothing to do with each other. Opposition to the wall isn't about granting anyone citizenship. It's about the freedom of people to travel here, work here and live here.
They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

To establish the authority and role of Congress envolvement surrounding the flow of immigrants within the states. The key words being “migration OR importation..... as ANY of the states”
 
My reply (if you were following) was in reference to the Federal law of citizenship VS those who sneak across our southern border illegally.

OK. And I'm pointing out those issues have nothing to do with each other. Opposition to the wall isn't about granting anyone citizenship. It's about the freedom of people to travel here, work here and live here.
They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.
 
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Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.


Moron,....was that when Trump "promised" that Mexico would pay for the wall??? LMAO


LMAO, no one expected Mexico to write a check so you can can your regressive talking points. All it does is get laughs.

.

It's the new leftist talking point because it's the only one they got. Their ploy is to try and convince everybody that Trump failed us somehow because we don't have that check in our possession. Given the fact leftists are block heads, our repeated response that we could care less who pays for it falls on deaf ears. After all, we must have said it about what........a hundred or so times? Yet the persist on bringing it up as if they are going to change our minds.
 
Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.
 
Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.
That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.:cuckoo:

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.
Border towns in Mexico sell everything you need to cross the border and i'm not kidding, maps to survival kits, climbing gear, ropes, ladders, shovels, you name it. There's also guides, better known as coyotes that have whatever equipment is needed.

The current Trump plan is to replace the 4 mile reinforced fence in El Paso with a wall. It is started and should complete sometime this year. If Trump gets his money then he will start construction to replace 112 miles of border wall in Southern California with a new wall adding another 100 miles.

Initially, no one is going over 20 foot walls. They will just pick another spot on the 1800 miles of border that easier to cross. Over the years as there becomes more walls people will start using ladders and other equipment to breach them. All this of course assumes democrats will never get control of government again and revise our immigration laws and the Mexican shortage of low cost labor doesn't force wages up and the cartels don't start blowing up walls.

So tell us which is quicker: crossing over the border by simply walking over it, or getting a two stage ladder, carrying or driving it up to the border, climbing up the ladder, getting back down to US soil, and then running away leaving a $400.00 ladder behind?

A border patrol agent (that appeared with the President when he addressed the public on this issue) was on Laura Ingraham's show Friday said it best: We understand a wall is not the only solution to our problem. However, a wall greatly slows down border jumpers to make our job easier and allow us to apprehend more border crossers while at the same time, having less of them to worry about because a barrier is also a deterrent to most of them.

The Border Patrol never endorsed a presidential candidate before Trump. But because Trump is going to help them do their job, they gave him their endorsement. So let's look at this argument realistically:

Conservatives: we want to build a border wall.

Liberals: What makes you think that will work?

Conservatives: Because a wall works everywhere it's tried. It works in Israel, it works in Hungary, it even works in the US where walls exist. It's endorsed by the Border agencies who do the job of capturing border crossers.

Liberals: But it won't work.

Conservatives: what evidence do you have to substantiate your claim?

Liberals: Democrat politicians, CNN, MSNBC, and ladders.

Can you honestly state that there is any kind of reasonable argument from the left? Really.......
 
Do any Trump ass kissers ever wonder why Trump didn't campaign and tell his cult the more honest slogan:

"We will build a wall...and YOU are going to pay for it"...

LOL

He also told us our healthcare insurance would drop by $2,500 a year, and we could keep our doctor, keep our insurance, keep our.............never mind. That was somebody else.
 
Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.


Moron,....was that when Trump "promised" that Mexico would pay for the wall??? LMAO


images.png
 
Trump will NEVER get money to build his ineffective "solution" to his re-election problems.

What will happen....eventually.....is that republicans in the senate will smarten up to save their own sorry asses and over-ride Trump's vetoes....

Which might well happen when Trump declares congress a national disaster for not giving him money to build his wall.

Looking at this objectively, the answer has got to be among Senate GOPers....


Trump desperately needs a wall for any remote chance for re-election....

Democrats in the House know the above very well, and they will NOT yield to his moronic, selfish wishes.

So, it will be among Senate GOP'ers to CHOOSE....loyalty to Trump....OR looking out for their own hides at the next election.

No, because any Republican Senator that doesn't stand by Trump will lose their election.
 
OK. And I'm pointing out those issues have nothing to do with each other. Opposition to the wall isn't about granting anyone citizenship. It's about the freedom of people to travel here, work here and live here.
They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

To establish the authority and role of Congress envolvement surrounding the flow of immigrants within the states. The key words being “migration OR importation..... as ANY of the states”
the States can no longer import slaves.
 
Please, don't flatter yourself. I can only wish I was as young as you perceive.

But it's not just me that has you nailed as a near open-border person, several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.

Of course you can all be wrong. Jim Jones got over 900 people to drink cyanide laced Kool Aid based on a lie. You are just as susceptible to being fooled - AND you just proved it with that part "several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.."

You just inadvertently admitted you're a Democrat - majority rule - might makes right.

Let me tell you something:

Ever since the Israelites began worshiping the golden calf while Moses was receiving the law of God, history has proven that majorities are usually wrong. In the instant case BOTH sides are wrong - and you're wrong basically because the solutions you stand behind belonged to Democrats before they were adopted by the people writing your talking points.

My goodness you are off the charts tonight. Every one of my concerns and points are the exact opposite of the Democrat party. Yours are much more inline with them than mine. Nobody is "ruling" you, just pointing out that I'm not the only one who sees you as an open borders person.


They can see me for what they like. That won't make it true. As I told you, there are two questions they've never asked me. Their entire world is, much like yours, if you don't buy the build the wall solution as being the only solution, you're an open borders liberal.

If you can't understand, after I've defined what you told me, that YOU are a liberal Democrat, then you are less intelligent than I ever dreamed. You should do some self introspection and then say, if I want to make a difference in the future of my nation and my culture, MAYBE I should STFU, do some studying, and figure out what this is all about.

You're so hung up on trying to peg me that you have no clue as to where I stand. You even ignore the hints. It's like someone is needed to bash you in the head with a rock before you understand: There are many sides to this issue and most people have serious flaws with their proposed solutions.

Every person arguing for a wall could not convince a jury. The recent turnover in the House of Representatives should tell you how ineffective your position is. In order to win, you'd have to be able to make the other guy's argument for him and do a better job than he does. You don't have a freaking clue as to where I stand and you end up making some of the most idiotic statements known to God or man.

That is why you're in the same boat the followers of Jim Jones were in.

Yes, you gained seats in the House, but lost them in the Senate. And if you bother to look at the results, you'd see that both parties had an outstanding and historical turnout. It's just that the hatred of the Democrats won over. But Trump supporters are still behind him as they were during the presidential election.

Nobody ever said the wall is the sole solution. You are making up that BS in your head. The wall (as border patrol stated) is a very helpful part of the solution. The solution is multi-level. The sole solution would be to get the Congress to pass a law making being here illegally a first degree felony with a minimum five year prison sentence. Then there would be no need for a wall, no need for e-veryfiy, no need for additional border agents, no need to track down illegals here. Most of them would pack up and leave the country.

I know quite well what this is all about--you don't. You remain ignorant of the long term goals by the Democrat party yet support their initiatives and furthermore claim yourself as a conservative.

I have endured your dumbassery long enough. I didn't win a damn thing Ray as I voted Republican. I don't support Democracy - not in name, not by party, not by ideology. YOU DO and I'm sick and tired of your dishonesty so I'll treat you like you treat me.

You have one standard. If someone does not back the silly wall, they are a liberal, etc. THAT is what separates you from others with an IQ higher than their shoe size.

If you had ANY IQ, you would know why Congress can pass no such law as you suggest. My only point to you is that we are restricted by the parameters of the Constitution and SCOTUS rulings in what kind of legislation we an pass.

You have proven to be a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a poseur. YOU adopted Bill Clinton's philosophy and have your head stuck so far up the liberals ass that if they fart, you will choke to death or get your first breath of air.

Now, you've called me a liberal for the last time. Put up, shut up or get ready for a nasty back and forth. Enough of this B.S. You didn't know what an unalienable Right is so you don't have a clue when you advocate withholding one or denying one to someone. You would have to kill me Ray in order to do some of the things you propose. My Rights are unalienable. You cannot take them; you cannot impose on them. To even suggest it shows that YOU ARE NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN.

You should start at post #2806. Read it and then cull through those 500 posts so you can see the number of times you LIED, called me names and tried to deflect when asked direct questions. It's not my fault that the left misled you and made a socialist out of you. Now, you want a discussion or a pissing match?

Put up a wall and no rights of yours will be taken away. If that happens, you let me know what right you lost, and I'll join your side. This "losing rights' nonsense is some sort of black helicopter scare tactic that will never work. You want to prove yourself as a conservative? Then join the conservatives on this issue.
 
Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Sure, for 18 centuries our forefathers just couldn't come up with drones......Also, ask the Israelis how many tunnels have been dug under THEIR wall......lol


I can dig a tunnel under a drone even easier. Or just walk past it. Or shoot the drone down. Have any idea what a good drone costs? Who's going to fly it? Refuel it? Monitor its camera? Or camouflage myself so the drone doesn't see me. With a wall, people are stopped, The few that try to get over or under are picked up by cameras or drones, or vibration sensors or patrols, but someone still has to monitor all that. And they still have to get to the action. By the time your drone sees me and you get there, I'm LONG GONE buddy! At least with the wall, I was greatly slowed down giving you time to respond.

Gee, you act like they will be putting the wall in your backyard! Last I checked, most people along the border WANT the wall. And it can be easily paid for by simply collecting the fines every illegal is due us. According to my math, that comes to 53 billion dollars.

Poll: Majority opposes border wall with Mexico

So, is America a Republic or a Democracy?


Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

.

That was three years ago.
 
You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.
We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.


Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

.

I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.


Yeah, you said walls don't work, yet you want to put the other poster behind 4 of them, a bit hypocritical ain't it and very inconsistent?

.

Not hypocritical at all. I said it would be for HIS enjoyment. It won't impact me.
 
I see your philosophy is if you can't dazzle people with you brilliance you try to baffle them with your bullshit. You're doing a hell of a job on the latter.

.
Typical Liberal bullshit; If you need an explanation, you’re not smart enough to understand it.

I understand fear and your need to join a pack of wolves while not discussing any portion of the subject doth testify as to the fear you have.


You seem to be mistaking common sense for fear, of course that's a standard regressive talking point.

.

You know you're blowing smoke. You haven't shown any common sense - only an intense desire to troll me. How many IQ points does that take? You waste your time with that and what do you accomplish?


Yeah, I've been known for blowing smoke on occasion, but pointing out your irrelevance and use of regressive talking point ain't that. It's not trolling either. But laying waste to your misguided spew is entertaining.

.

Dude, you're a legend in your own mind.
 
I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.

But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.

It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.

Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.

You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.

You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.

I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.

Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.

If you were being honest, then you were ignorant and need to do some reading in several areas: general civics, history, law and constitutional interpretation.

That, most likely, explains why you try to pass me off as a liberal or a moderate instead of answering questions as they are asked of you.

Pretexts are not reasons. They are just that. For example, in my neighborhood, there are PLENTY of jobs almost anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size can get. Most pay between $20 and $40 an hour. When they don't take them and Hispanics show up, I work them.

NOWHERE in that scenario does it give you any indication of where I stand on the issue. But, sometimes I need things done and have to work within a budget. If Americans don't apply for the jobs, I either get the help I need or lose what I own. It's that simple. Do you realize I've been at this for four decades now and not one single time has one of the people wanting a wall and bitching about jobs EVER walked away from their computer and applied for a job that I told them about?
Penalties

CIVIL VIOLATIONS
  • Knowingly hired, or to have knowingly recruited or referred for a fee, an unauthorized alien for employment in the United States or to have knowingly continued to employ an unauthorized alien in the United States
  • Failing to comply with Form I-9 employment verification requirements
  • Committing or participating in document fraud for satisfying a requirement or benefit of the employment verification process or the INA
  • Committing document abuse
  • Unlawful discrimination against an employment-authorized individual in hiring, firing, or recruitment or referral for a fee
  • Failing to notify DHS of a Final Nonconfirmation (FNC) of an employee’s employment eligibility
  • Requiring an individual to post a bond or security or to pay an amount or otherwise to provide financial guarantee or indemnity against any potential liability arising under the employment verification requirements
CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS
  • Engaging in a pattern or practice of hiring, recruiting or referring for a fee unauthorized aliens
What Is the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA)?

What does IRCA mean to employers?
Obviously, employers cannot hire immigrants who are not authorized to work in the U.S. All workers must fit into one of the four following categories:

  1. U.S. citizen
  2. noncitizen national
  3. lawful permanent resident
  4. alien authorized to work
To check work authorization, the federal government requires a Form I-9 be filled out for every employee upon hire. This applies to U.S. citizens, too. The employee will fill out the first section and indicate their work authorization classification.

You should READ this thread. Let's start you out with post # 2806. I'll come back later and start the discussion all over since you are not going to read the freaking thing.
 
If democrats welcomed illegal immigration or didn't want a barrier against, why would democrats support the 2006 Border Fence Act which authorized 700 hundred miles of reinforced fences and why would democrats in congress support a bill that doubled the size of the border patrol and why would Bill Clinton sign a law that denies federal funds to undocumented immigrants and why would Obama, remove 2.5 million illegal immigrants. I think your claims are based on supposition, not facts.

Oh yeah?

Then where is that 700 miles of border fence?

Why are they fighting so hard to keep their sanctuary cities and now states?

Why did they stop Kate's Law in the Senate when Democrats had leadership?

Why do they provide illegals with drivers licenses in their states and allow their kids to attend school?

LA Times

Court Deportations Drop 43 Percent in Past Five Years

Report: 42 percent of new Medicaid signups are immigrants, their children

The Democrats can't say they are for illegals, so they put on this dog and pony show for the sheep that can't see beyond their BS.

People sling numbers around like they were picked from air. Here is an article that disputes the numbers. But, might I remind you that radio commentators are claiming that $5 BILLION DOLLARS is a drop in the bucket of federal spending.

How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment

Herein is the irony. Ray and those like him vehemently defend the 14th Amendment, yet the Courts have ruled that if you're born here you are a citizen - as per the 14th Amendment. The money he is bitching about is used to the benefit of what will be "legal" American citizens.

Ray, had your kind stayed out of the fight, patriots were busy getting rid of the 14th Amendment. Without it, this issue would have been taken off the table. So, what are you REALLY whining about?

Quick reply here.

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”. When you say "courts" then specify the case, ruling and then we can discuss it.


Irrelevant counselor.

Children of Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S.: Rights and Opportunities - Lawyers.com

Also:

"there are many people within the United States who believe that children of illegal immigrants should not be given U.S. citizenship status. They argue that allowing such children citizenship was not the original intent of the drafters of the 14th Amendment (who didn't even address the topic of immigration, because no limits then existed on who could enter the United States in the first place..."

Can the Child of an Undocumented Immigrant Become a U.S. Citizen?

Then there is this:

"In recent years, some have argued the 14th amendment does not apply to children whose parents are undocumented.

"It's not the mainstream understanding," Sanders said. "But some have argued that the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' excludes children whose parents are not legal residents."

The argument is that because the child's parents remain in the U.S. illegally, they are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and neither are their children.

"As I said, that's not the mainstream understanding of the 14th amendment," Sanders said.

Excluding children of undocumented immigrants from birthright citizenship would require either a new amendment to the constitution or for the Supreme Court to decide the current constitution excludes such children."

Birthright citizenship applies to children of undocumented immigrants

The laws that specifically address citizenship are very clear.


Definition of Child

IN GENERAL, a child for citizenship and naturalization provisions is an unmarried person who is:
  • The genetic, legitimated, or adopted son or daughter of a U.S. citizen; or
  • The son or daughter of a non-genetic gestational U.S. citizen mother who is recognized by the relevant jurisdiction as the child’s legal parent.

Children residing outside of the United States may obtain citizenship under Section 322 of the INA. A child who regularly resides outside of the United States is eligible for naturalization if all of the following conditions have been met:
  • The child has at least one parent, including an adoptive parent, who is a U.S. citizen by birth or through naturalization;
  • The child’s U.S. citizen parent or U.S. citizen grandparent meets certain physical presence requirements in the United States or an outlying possession;
  • The child is under 18 years of age;
  • The child is residing outside of the United States in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent, or of a person who does not object to the application if the U.S. citizen parent is deceased; and
  • The child is lawfully admitted, physically present, and maintaining a lawful status in the United States at the time the application is approved and the time of naturalization.
SOURCE: Are you the foreign-born child of a parent who becomes a U.S. citizen?

Why it’s so important to actually do the research on the laws surrounding citizenship, knowledge of the original intent when interpreting the 14th Amendment when it was written, as well as our nation’s history surrounding immigration enforcement and dictation from Supreme Court cases surrounding immigration enforcement.


I don't give a rip about the 14th Amendment and the laws surrounding it; it was illegally ratified. HOW it is being applied today is all that is relevant since, like the Second Amendment, we ain't going back to original intent.
 

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