Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[dblack]

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

I don't give a shit about idiotic laws. Laws that deny reality deserve to be ignored.

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to fuck off.........LOL

What idiotic law have I passed?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Oh yeah?

Then where is that 700 miles of border fence?

Why are they fighting so hard to keep their sanctuary cities and now states?

Why did they stop Kate's Law in the Senate when Democrats had leadership?

Why do they provide illegals with drivers licenses in their states and allow their kids to attend school?

LA Times

Court Deportations Drop 43 Percent in Past Five Years

Report: 42 percent of new Medicaid signups are immigrants, their children

The Democrats can't say they are for illegals, so they put on this dog and pony show for the sheep that can't see beyond their BS.

People sling numbers around like they were picked from air. Here is an article that disputes the numbers. But, might I remind you that radio commentators are claiming that $5 BILLION DOLLARS is a drop in the bucket of federal spending.

How Undocumented Immigrants Sometimes Receive Medicaid Treatment

Herein is the irony. Ray and those like him vehemently defend the 14th Amendment, yet the Courts have ruled that if you're born here you are a citizen - as per the 14th Amendment. The money he is bitching about is used to the benefit of what will be "legal" American citizens.

Ray, had your kind stayed out of the fight, patriots were busy getting rid of the 14th Amendment. Without it, this issue would have been taken off the table. So, what are you REALLY whining about?

Quick reply here.

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”. When you say "courts" then specify the case, ruling and then we can discuss it.

Irrelevant counselor.

Children of Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S.: Rights and Opportunities - Lawyers.com

Also:

"there are many people within the United States who believe that children of illegal immigrants should not be given U.S. citizenship status. They argue that allowing such children citizenship was not the original intent of the drafters of the 14th Amendment (who didn't even address the topic of immigration, because no limits then existed on who could enter the United States in the first place..."

Can the Child of an Undocumented Immigrant Become a U.S. Citizen?

Then there is this:

"In recent years, some have argued the 14th amendment does not apply to children whose parents are undocumented.

"It's not the mainstream understanding," Sanders said. "But some have argued that the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' excludes children whose parents are not legal residents."

The argument is that because the child's parents remain in the U.S. illegally, they are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and neither are their children.

"As I said, that's not the mainstream understanding of the 14th amendment," Sanders said.

Excluding children of undocumented immigrants from birthright citizenship would require either a new amendment to the constitution or for the Supreme Court to decide the current constitution excludes such children."

Birthright citizenship applies to children of undocumented immigrants

The laws that specifically address citizenship are very clear.


Definition of Child

IN GENERAL, a child for citizenship and naturalization provisions is an unmarried person who is:

• The genetic, legitimated, or adopted son or daughter of a U.S. citizen; or
• The son or daughter of a non-genetic gestational U.S. citizen mother who is recognized by the relevant jurisdiction as the child’s legal parent.

Children residing outside of the United States may obtain citizenship under Section 322 of the INA. A child who regularly resides outside of the United States is eligible for naturalization if all of the following conditions have been met:

• The child has at least one parent, including an adoptive parent, who is a U.S. citizen by birth or through naturalization;
• The child’s U.S. citizen parent or U.S. citizen grandparent meets certain physical presence requirements in the United States or an outlying possession;
• The child is under 18 years of age;
• The child is residing outside of the United States in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent, or of a person who does not object to the application if the U.S. citizen parent is deceased; and
• The child is lawfully admitted, physically present, and maintaining a lawful status in the United States at the time the application is approved and the time of naturalization.

SOURCE: Are you the foreign-born child of a parent who becomes a U.S. citizen?

Why it’s so important to actually do the research on the laws surrounding citizenship, knowledge of the original intent when interpreting the 14th Amendment when it was written, as well as our nation’s history surrounding immigration enforcement and dictation from Supreme Court cases surrounding immigration enforcement.

I don't give a rip about the 14th Amendment and the laws surrounding it; it was illegally ratified. HOW it is being applied today is all that is relevant since, like the Second Amendment, we ain't going back to original intent.

Usually when I make a statement, I have the ability to actually back that statement up. Provide proof that the 14th Amendment was illegally ratified, let’s see just how much research you’ve put into this.

 

[eagle1462010]

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

I don't give a shit about idiotic laws. Laws that deny reality deserve to be ignored.

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to fuck off.........LOL

What idiotic law have I passed?

You passed gas.........LOL..............Ok ..........what the left passes in California for example..........

Either way.......you refuse to obey the law and openly admit it.

 

[dblack]

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to fuck off.........LOL

What idiotic law have I passed?

You passed gas.........LOL..............Ok ..........what the left passes in California for example..........

I'm not on the left. I don't live in California. That all you got?

 

[eagle1462010]

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to fuck off.........LOL

What idiotic law have I passed?

You passed gas.........LOL..............Ok ..........what the left passes in California for example..........

I'm not on the left. I don't live in California. That all you got?

Well then.........yes..........whatever.......I'll now disobey any law I choose not to agree with.........just like you.

 

[dblack]

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to fuck off.........LOL

What idiotic law have I passed?

You passed gas.........LOL..............Ok ..........what the left passes in California for example..........

I'm not on the left. I don't live in California. That all you got?

Well then.........yes..........whatever.......I'll now disobey any law I choose not to agree with.........just like you.

Well I guess you showed me!

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

Yet you can’t provide the evidence of that actual “research”. Why is it I’m the only one who can back it up and include that in a response? Words of 250 court briefs are supposed to be efficient enough, as opposed to providing links in somehow impressing me? Seriously? Resumes without provided evidence are only for those trying to impress and scratch their ego rather than thrpugh hard work and efforts of providing actual FACTS

 

[OKTexas]

Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Sure, for 18 centuries our forefathers just couldn't come up with drones......Also, ask the Israelis how many tunnels have been dug under THEIR wall......lol

I can dig a tunnel under a drone even easier. Or just walk past it. Or shoot the drone down. Have any idea what a good drone costs? Who's going to fly it? Refuel it? Monitor its camera? Or camouflage myself so the drone doesn't see me. With a wall, people are stopped, The few that try to get over or under are picked up by cameras or drones, or vibration sensors or patrols, but someone still has to monitor all that. And they still have to get to the action. By the time your drone sees me and you get there, I'm LONG GONE buddy! At least with the wall, I was greatly slowed down giving you time to respond.

Gee, you act like they will be putting the wall in your backyard! Last I checked, most people along the border WANT the wall. And it can be easily paid for by simply collecting the fines every illegal is due us. According to my math, that comes to 53 billion dollars.

Poll: Majority opposes border wall with Mexico

So, is America a Republic or a Democracy?

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

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That was three years ago.

Well you're only 10 months off, I guess you can't read a calendar either.

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[OKTexas]

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

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I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.

Yeah, you said walls don't work, yet you want to put the other poster behind 4 of them, a bit hypocritical ain't it and very inconsistent?

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Not hypocritical at all. I said it would be for HIS enjoyment. It won't impact me.

Neither will walls in certain areas on the southern border.

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[OKTexas]

Typical Liberal bullshit; If you need an explanation, you’re not smart enough to understand it.

I understand fear and your need to join a pack of wolves while not discussing any portion of the subject doth testify as to the fear you have.

You seem to be mistaking common sense for fear, of course that's a standard regressive talking point.

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You know you're blowing smoke. You haven't shown any common sense - only an intense desire to troll me. How many IQ points does that take? You waste your time with that and what do you accomplish?

Yeah, I've been known for blowing smoke on occasion, but pointing out your irrelevance and use of regressive talking point ain't that. It's not trolling either. But laying waste to your misguided spew is entertaining.

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Dude, you're a legend in your own mind.

And don't you forget it. LOL

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[bripat9643]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

I don't give a shit about idiotic laws. Laws that deny reality deserve to be ignored.

Laws that enforce our border and sovereignty are "idiotic?" You just convinced us that there's no reason to discuss the issue with you.

 

[OKTexas]

They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

All that and you still haven't gotten the supremes to strike it down, they must not have been very effective briefs.

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[22lcidw]

Capitalism is Worthless if we need a Wall.

Who says we are a capitalist nation?

the right wing. it is all about the profit not the People for the right wing.

I believe its a marriage of social programs and capitalism. Our nation is that today. But there are people who feel they are not represented and people who feel they are being scammed. Its just the percentages that we belittle ourselves over. And unfortunately or fortunately the politicians have upped the percentages towards socialism. But now we have communists and the real religious zealots becoming empowered.

 

[Indeependent]

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

After reading your first sentence I realize that you are a mindless fool. You don’t respect those who risk their lives on the frontlines. You can go and jump in a frozen lake.

Bu...bu...but he’s a pastor.
I’m shocked his congregation hasn’t already committed mass suicide.

 

[OKTexas]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

Yep, they work for us, and we're obligated to give them the tools required to do the job we ask them to do in an effective and safe manner. We already have walls and barriers on roughly 1/3rd of the border. Now you cry babies claim adding an additional 10% will somehow restrict our liberties and would be IMMORAL. REALLY?? That seems to fly in the face of logic.

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[Indeependent]

They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

Realizing, of course, that 99% of legislation is agenda driven by committees and sub-committees and sub-sub-committees.

 

[Indeependent]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

If anybody is trying to turn our country into a gulag it's you people. Bring in cheap labor, let them work for next to nothing because it's better than what they have at home. The only way to survive is stuffing 15 people in a three bedroom apartment or home. People crawling on each other like animals.

Dblack is a Libertarian aka cheap, selfish piece of shit.
I know more than a few of them and they are the most unhappy people you will ever encounter.

 

[task0778]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.

Border towns in Mexico sell everything you need to cross the border and i'm not kidding, maps to survival kits, climbing gear, ropes, ladders, shovels, you name it. There's also guides, better known as coyotes that have whatever equipment is needed.

The current Trump plan is to replace the 4 mile reinforced fence in El Paso with a wall. It is started and should complete sometime this year. If Trump gets his money then he will start construction to replace 112 miles of border wall in Southern California with a new wall adding another 100 miles.

Initially, no one is going over 20 foot walls. They will just pick another spot on the 1800 miles of border that easier to cross. Over the years as there becomes more walls people will start using ladders and other equipment to breach them. All this of course assumes democrats will never get control of government again and revise our immigration laws and the Mexican shortage of low cost labor doesn't force wages up and the cartels don't start blowing up walls.

First of all, I think most of the people coming up from Latin America don't have the money to buy the stuff you mentioned or pay a coyote. Number one, we need to find out who and where these people are getting that stuff and pay the Mexican gov't enough money to go after them. Tell 'em up front, you do it or we do it.

We know the entire border is about 1950 miles, but some of it is natural barriers like mountains and deserts and shit where you really don't need an artificial barrier. So, you build the barrier (let's call it that) in the places where you need one to reduce or eliminate as much as possible the traffic flow in or out of the US. Over time, people will leave evidence of their passing, patrolling drones are going to identify tunnels or other illegal entry points, and we can take steps to shut those places down. So, you close the loopholes and make it harder and harder to get in, that's the whole point.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

All that and you still haven't gotten the supremes to strike it down, they must not have been very effective briefs.

.

In trying to summarize my last post .. It’s not what you HAVE, it’s what you can PROVE. Resumes are only good hainging on someone’s wall

 

[OKTexas]

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

All that and you still haven't gotten the supremes to strike it down, they must not have been very effective briefs.

.

In trying to summarize my last post .. It’s not what you HAVE, it’s what you can PROVE. Resumes are only good hainging on someone’s wall

Yeah, this dude has gone form some kind of social worker to now a constitutional lawyer. He hasn't even said why he thinks the 14th was implemented illegally.

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