Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[AzogtheDefiler]

You never answered me. Do you think they are actors?

If you ask a question or expect a reply from a particular person you need to issue a reply to that person, not to the whole thread which is at bottom of the screen.

Dodging you are.

 

[Indeependent]

If police officers ask for guns should we not give them guns because in someone’s opinion it infringes on their liberties? I find that odd.

Are you drunk? What in the HELL did that mean?

I would never advocate giving up your gun.

But you’re OK denying border agents another form of protection they feel they need?

Who exactly are these border agents; the ones Trump's Customs and Border Protection Director hand picked for Trump's border barrier infomercial at the white house?

Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggested a border wall.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

From your New York Times (what else) article:

Officials at Customs and Border Protection called the report inaccurate, saying it confused how agents’ feedback about security vulnerabilities is used to develop programs to counter threats.

This issue in March is in sharp contrast to this article in the Washington Times a month later

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Notice the term strategic locations. Funny how a border wall changed to a 1000 mile wall, to a wall in strategic locations to a border barrier/border fence which is currently 212 miles long, 112 miles of it replaces a border barrier built in 2006. Unable to get a single dollar to build the great wall Trump promised on the campaign trail, he has now settled on a new strategy: repairing and upgrading the existing fence and calling that his “wall.” Is that what you guys voted for?

It never changed; you never listened to 1 speech.

 

[danielpalos]

Are you drunk? What in the HELL did that mean?

I would never advocate giving up your gun.

But you’re OK denying border agents another form of protection they feel they need?

Who exactly are these border agents; the ones Trump's Customs and Border Protection Director hand picked for Trump's border barrier infomercial at the white house?

Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggested a border wall.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

From your New York Times (what else) article:

Officials at Customs and Border Protection called the report inaccurate, saying it confused how agents’ feedback about security vulnerabilities is used to develop programs to counter threats.

This issue in March is in sharp contrast to this article in the Washington Times a month later

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Notice the term strategic locations. Funny how a border wall changed to a 1000 mile wall, to a wall in strategic locations to a border barrier/border fence which is currently 212 miles long, 112 miles of it replaces a border barrier built in 2006. Unable to get a single dollar to build the great wall Trump promised on the campaign trail, he has now settled on a new strategy: repairing and upgrading the existing fence and calling that his “wall.” Is that what you guys voted for?

To me “wall” was short for stronger border security. I didn’t take it literally but after hearing the border patrol agents I think the monies are reasonable and they are on the frontlines. As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

there is no express wall building clause and we have a general welfare clause not a general warfare clause. only the right wing, never gets it.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

If unalienable Rights exist – and I think they do, WHERE in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the Constitution did our leaders ever presume to take those from people who are not citizens? What proof can they offer us that foreigners were not born with unalienable Rights? They keep accusing me of taking a stand I have NOT taken. I’m asking them for proof of their position.

Our people (government) does not take any inalienable rights away from people because they can't. Rights however are granted to people that are in our country. If visitors, they are granted some constitutional rights. If they become citizens, they are granted all constitutional rights. But constitutional rights are not the same as inalienable rights. It's something I think you're confused about.

A right to be in this country is not an inalienable right, it's a right granted by the government. Therefore it's a right that can be removed by our government.

1 There will be the strict enforcement of the Constitution Free Zone. There will go your Fourth Amendment Rights FOREVER. Right now, you can still fight back to regain those Rights

A wall won't change any of that. If the government wanted a strict enforcement of the free zone, they could do that tomorrow with no wall. Therefore your claim is moot.

2 The right already passed the National ID / REAL ID Act – E Verify which is far worse than what Hitler had AND it reeks of Orwellian nightmares that today’s youth cannot begin to fathom. It will expand into drones and listening devices being used against them 24 / 7 / 365 from the womb to the tomb

So WTF does that have to do with the wall? And I"m sorry, I just don't buy into any stories that involve.....

3 As if the suspension of constitutional guarantees and total surveillance aren’t enough, the nutty wall gives the government the ability to track your every financial transaction based on your SSN / National ID card.

A wall does that? How? I know nothing about any national ID card. I don't have one, I've never been notified I must have one, and I have no plans to get one.

I mention this because a lot of people have NO intention of surrendering their firearms AND they expect an internal war due to government over-reach. The unintended consequences of this nutty wall idea will give government access to so much information they will know you built your own weapon without you ever having registered it. If you think you or the next generation may have to go up against a tyrannical government, you just handicapped them and endangered their lives with this lobbying effort. We got a long way to go.

Again, a wall has nothing to do with that. These conspiracy theories of yours are not even part of this planet yet alone country.

I changed my opinion about you. You are not a liberal, you are not a conservative, you're just a plain old kook. But just for shits and giggles, can you tell me how the government could not know I was building a weapon of some sort if a wall wasn't there????

Your associations are so far out even somebody smoking the best pot can't connect them. A wall will not take one right away from you, from me, from any citizen. A wall (like a firearm) has no mystical power of it's own. A wall is simply that, a wall. A wall can't change the Constitution, a wall can't change any laws, a wall can't change anything in the federalist papers. It's simply an inanimate object.

1) I am not arguing inalienable rights.

2) You wrote: " Rights however are granted to people that are in our country."

In one of the earliest United States Supreme Court decisions on this, the court ruled as follows:

"Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,-'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;' and to 'secure,' not grant or create, these rights, governments are instituted. That property which a man has honestly acquired he retains full control of, subject to these limitations: First, that he shall not use it to his neighbor's injury, and that does not mean that he must use it for his neighbor's benefit; second, that if the devotes it to a public use, he gives to the public a right to control that use; and third, that whenever the public needs require, the public may take it upon payment of due compensation. BUDD v. PEOPLE OF STATE OF NEW YORK, 143 U.S. 517 (1892)

In other words what I create is MINE and I don't owe you a job to benefit you - it's my job to give. This is THE fatal flaw of your argument.

3) I agree that the government "could" strictly enforce the Constitution Free Zone. IF they did, the people would see this is VERY real and they would rebel. So, they do it in small doses. YouTube is full of videos of law abiding Americans who have had their Rights violated in the Constitution Free Zone.

As you will recall, Al Capone was arrested on a 25 year old law that had possibly never been enforced - the people would have rebelled had they known what it was REALLY about (income tax evasion.)

4) I don't do theories. I live in the real world. In order to enforce the laws relative to the wall, your boys have already passed the so - called "Patriot Act," the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and trashed the policies of a presumption of innocence - innocent until proven guilty. You're perfectly comfortable with the Constitution Free Zone and I'd bet there are over 500 suggestions from people you agree with on this thread alone advocating that we "crack down on those sending money out of this country." Those precedents are a dual edged sword.

Frederick Douglass, a former slave and a Republican once said:

"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened around his own neck."

So, you create a bad precedent on the border, falsely thinking it will apply only to undocumented foreigners only to find out it's being used against you. You don't have a very sound strategy. All you've supported in the past expands into a cashless society wherein all your transactions are tracked by the paper trail you left on a computer. You'd support a cashless society if it would get rid of the little brown guys from south of the border. All that will be enacted in order to assist in enforcing the wall... an untended consequence for those who realize that we may be engaged in an internal civil war some day.

The unintended consequences of giving the government as much power as you would - on the pretext that it will save you from yourself is foolish and your repetitive posts and covering the same ground over and over won't make my point any less true.

You know you're defeated; that's why the deflections and your inability to be honest with me. In the end, YOU will be screwed by the very monster you are helping to build... and you will have done it to yourself. We got a lot of ground to cover grasshopper. I'm not going to try and debate everyone at the same time who want some - though the best is invited to a REAL debate on another board where it will be one on one - no holds barred.

If we don't control immigration we have the potential of having 158 million people from poverty countries up and decide to move to America to get a share of our American Lifestyle ruining for us who are already here. We paid for this lifestyle via our ancestors who both fought the Civil War, and the war of Independence from England in the first war of our nation. Our ancestors broke into the west and tamed it. Our ancestors bought with sweat, tears, and bullets the luxurious lifestyle we now have. If these people want the same lifestyle we have then they need to fix their own damn country and not ruin what we fought generations for.

Maybe we could revisit this topic of citizenship if you feel that way.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

When LIBERALS LOVE TO CLAIM SOMETHING is "unconstitutional", that cuts both ways. Sanctuary cities ? Nobody got to vote on whether or not they want sanctuary cities. That seems so exceptional so Unconstitutional. Nobody go to vote on this issue, it's mandated, it's dictated by the moral minority. by who's power, even? Sanctuary cities? I can't speak for the majority, but I suspect most of us rather want federal immigration laws enforced, it won't hurt us, and it might just help.

In most cities, citizens only get to vote for elected officials, referendums which have a sufficient number of signatures, bond issues, and other items specified in state laws. I'm sure you know what to do if you don't like how your city council votes. So stop whining. It's not a democracy.

Not a personal thing, we get to vote on say, judges or trash pick up days or picayune minutiae. But you think complaining about not being able to vote on such significant issue as being a sanctuary city is whining Are you nutz? THIS IS a DEMOCRACY, you moron.

You'd better reread Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution
Recite the Pledge of Allegiance
Read the Federalist Papers

Democracy doesn't mean a tiny bunch of entitled elitists can impose their will on the majority, I will not let that stand. Nobody got to vote on sanctuary cities, and that is scary thing. Doesn't that bother anyone else? It's like someone hijacked our government. It's outrageous! Don't tells us what to think!

You're the one trying to tell people what to think. What you're doing is called projection. California is quite comfortable electing Sanctuary City candidates while Georgia voted them down.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

But you’re OK denying border agents another form of protection they feel they need?

Who exactly are these border agents; the ones Trump's Customs and Border Protection Director hand picked for Trump's border barrier infomercial at the white house?

Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggested a border wall.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

From your New York Times (what else) article:

Officials at Customs and Border Protection called the report inaccurate, saying it confused how agents’ feedback about security vulnerabilities is used to develop programs to counter threats.

This issue in March is in sharp contrast to this article in the Washington Times a month later

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Notice the term strategic locations. Funny how a border wall changed to a 1000 mile wall, to a wall in strategic locations to a border barrier/border fence which is currently 212 miles long, 112 miles of it replaces a border barrier built in 2006. Unable to get a single dollar to build the great wall Trump promised on the campaign trail, he has now settled on a new strategy: repairing and upgrading the existing fence and calling that his “wall.” Is that what you guys voted for?

To me “wall” was short for stronger border security. I didn’t take it literally but after hearing the border patrol agents I think the monies are reasonable and they are on the frontlines. As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

there is no express wall building clause and we have a general welfare clause not a general warfare clause. only the right wing, never gets it.

IDC about clauses. Stop beating the same drum. I am not right wing. I am logical. Stop responding to my posts with the same answers. You're trolling and I don't appreciate it.

 

[dblack]

As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

Because a country is not private property. When you wall off a country, you're walling off someone else's property. It should be up to property owners along the border whether they want to put up a wall or not.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

Because a country is not private property. When you wall off a country, you're walling off someone else's property. It should be up to property owners along the border whether they want to put up a wall or not.

The US is not private property? What is it?

 

[dblack]

As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

Because a country is not private property. When you wall off a country, you're walling off someone else's property. It should be up to property owners along the border whether they want to put up a wall or not.

The US is not private property? What is it?

It's a nation. Made of private property, owned by citizens. The government can only override the will of private property owners in specific ways delineated by the Constitution. The wall cowards are trying to invoke the specter of "war" to justify this, but the idea that a bunch of poor immigrants constitute an "invasion" is silly on the face of it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

Because a country is not private property. When you wall off a country, you're walling off someone else's property. It should be up to property owners along the border whether they want to put up a wall or not.

The US is not private property? What is it?

It's a nation. Made of private property, owned by citizens. The government can only override the will of private property owners in specific ways delineated by the Constitution. The wall cowards are trying to invoke the specter of "war" to justify this, but the idea that a bunch of poor immigrants constitute an "invasion" is silly on the face of it.

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

 

[dblack]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

 

[dblack]

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country.

Well, that's what we're discussing - whether it should remain free. The wall cowards want to override that freedom with authoritarian government.

 

[danielpalos]

Who exactly are these border agents; the ones Trump's Customs and Border Protection Director hand picked for Trump's border barrier infomercial at the white house?

Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggested a border wall.
What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

From your New York Times (what else) article:

Officials at Customs and Border Protection called the report inaccurate, saying it confused how agents’ feedback about security vulnerabilities is used to develop programs to counter threats.

This issue in March is in sharp contrast to this article in the Washington Times a month later

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Notice the term strategic locations. Funny how a border wall changed to a 1000 mile wall, to a wall in strategic locations to a border barrier/border fence which is currently 212 miles long, 112 miles of it replaces a border barrier built in 2006. Unable to get a single dollar to build the great wall Trump promised on the campaign trail, he has now settled on a new strategy: repairing and upgrading the existing fence and calling that his “wall.” Is that what you guys voted for?

To me “wall” was short for stronger border security. I didn’t take it literally but after hearing the border patrol agents I think the monies are reasonable and they are on the frontlines. As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

there is no express wall building clause and we have a general welfare clause not a general warfare clause. only the right wing, never gets it.

IDC about clauses. Stop beating the same drum. I am not right wing. I am logical. Stop responding to my posts with the same answers. You're trolling and I don't appreciate it.

you don't care about the law, Constitutional or otherwise; I got, right wingers.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

From your New York Times (what else) article:

Officials at Customs and Border Protection called the report inaccurate, saying it confused how agents’ feedback about security vulnerabilities is used to develop programs to counter threats.

This issue in March is in sharp contrast to this article in the Washington Times a month later

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Notice the term strategic locations. Funny how a border wall changed to a 1000 mile wall, to a wall in strategic locations to a border barrier/border fence which is currently 212 miles long, 112 miles of it replaces a border barrier built in 2006. Unable to get a single dollar to build the great wall Trump promised on the campaign trail, he has now settled on a new strategy: repairing and upgrading the existing fence and calling that his “wall.” Is that what you guys voted for?

To me “wall” was short for stronger border security. I didn’t take it literally but after hearing the border patrol agents I think the monies are reasonable and they are on the frontlines. As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

there is no express wall building clause and we have a general welfare clause not a general warfare clause. only the right wing, never gets it.

IDC about clauses. Stop beating the same drum. I am not right wing. I am logical. Stop responding to my posts with the same answers. You're trolling and I don't appreciate it.

you don't care about the law, Constitutional or otherwise; I got, right wingers.

Okay Danny, while you're partly right on this, on many issues the left is willing trash the Constitution as well.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

We tried laws, we tried regulation, we tried more border patrol agents, and these people still come here against our wishes. Now we need more barriers to stop them from getting in.


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[Porter Rockwell]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

Maybe you should look at post # 3731 and access the link I left there.