Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Porter Rockwell]

If unalienable Rights exist – and I think they do, WHERE in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the Constitution did our leaders ever presume to take those from people who are not citizens? What proof can they offer us that foreigners were not born with unalienable Rights? They keep accusing me of taking a stand I have NOT taken. I’m asking them for proof of their position.

Our people (government) does not take any inalienable rights away from people because they can't. Rights however are granted to people that are in our country. If visitors, they are granted some constitutional rights. If they become citizens, they are granted all constitutional rights. But constitutional rights are not the same as inalienable rights. It's something I think you're confused about.

A right to be in this country is not an inalienable right, it's a right granted by the government. Therefore it's a right that can be removed by our government.

1 There will be the strict enforcement of the Constitution Free Zone. There will go your Fourth Amendment Rights FOREVER. Right now, you can still fight back to regain those Rights

A wall won't change any of that. If the government wanted a strict enforcement of the free zone, they could do that tomorrow with no wall. Therefore your claim is moot.

2 The right already passed the National ID / REAL ID Act – E Verify which is far worse than what Hitler had AND it reeks of Orwellian nightmares that today’s youth cannot begin to fathom. It will expand into drones and listening devices being used against them 24 / 7 / 365 from the womb to the tomb

So WTF does that have to do with the wall? And I"m sorry, I just don't buy into any stories that involve.....

3 As if the suspension of constitutional guarantees and total surveillance aren’t enough, the nutty wall gives the government the ability to track your every financial transaction based on your SSN / National ID card.

A wall does that? How? I know nothing about any national ID card. I don't have one, I've never been notified I must have one, and I have no plans to get one.

I mention this because a lot of people have NO intention of surrendering their firearms AND they expect an internal war due to government over-reach. The unintended consequences of this nutty wall idea will give government access to so much information they will know you built your own weapon without you ever having registered it. If you think you or the next generation may have to go up against a tyrannical government, you just handicapped them and endangered their lives with this lobbying effort. We got a long way to go.

Again, a wall has nothing to do with that. These conspiracy theories of yours are not even part of this planet yet alone country.

I changed my opinion about you. You are not a liberal, you are not a conservative, you're just a plain old kook. But just for shits and giggles, can you tell me how the government could not know I was building a weapon of some sort if a wall wasn't there????

Your associations are so far out even somebody smoking the best pot can't connect them. A wall will not take one right away from you, from me, from any citizen. A wall (like a firearm) has no mystical power of it's own. A wall is simply that, a wall. A wall can't change the Constitution, a wall can't change any laws, a wall can't change anything in the federalist papers. It's simply an inanimate object.

1) I am not arguing inalienable rights.

2) You wrote: " Rights however are granted to people that are in our country."

In one of the earliest United States Supreme Court decisions on this, the court ruled as follows:

"Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,-'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;' and to 'secure,' not grant or create, these rights, governments are instituted. That property which a man has honestly acquired he retains full control of, subject to these limitations: First, that he shall not use it to his neighbor's injury, and that does not mean that he must use it for his neighbor's benefit; second, that if the devotes it to a public use, he gives to the public a right to control that use; and third, that whenever the public needs require, the public may take it upon payment of due compensation. BUDD v. PEOPLE OF STATE OF NEW YORK, 143 U.S. 517 (1892)

In other words what I create is MINE and I don't owe you a job to benefit you - it's my job to give. This is THE fatal flaw of your argument.

3) I agree that the government "could" strictly enforce the Constitution Free Zone. IF they did, the people would see this is VERY real and they would rebel. So, they do it in small doses. YouTube is full of videos of law abiding Americans who have had their Rights violated in the Constitution Free Zone.

As you will recall, Al Capone was arrested on a 25 year old law that had possibly never been enforced - the people would have rebelled had they known what it was REALLY about (income tax evasion.)

4) I don't do theories. I live in the real world. In order to enforce the laws relative to the wall, your boys have already passed the so - called "Patriot Act," the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify and trashed the policies of a presumption of innocence - innocent until proven guilty. You're perfectly comfortable with the Constitution Free Zone and I'd bet there are over 500 suggestions from people you agree with on this thread alone advocating that we "crack down on those sending money out of this country." Those precedents are a dual edged sword.

Frederick Douglass, a former slave and a Republican once said:

"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened around his own neck."

So, you create a bad precedent on the border, falsely thinking it will apply only to undocumented foreigners only to find out it's being used against you. You don't have a very sound strategy. All you've supported in the past expands into a cashless society wherein all your transactions are tracked by the paper trail you left on a computer. You'd support a cashless society if it would get rid of the little brown guys from south of the border. All that will be enacted in order to assist in enforcing the wall... an untended consequence for those who realize that we may be engaged in an internal civil war some day.

The unintended consequences of giving the government as much power as you would - on the pretext that it will save you from yourself is foolish and your repetitive posts and covering the same ground over and over won't make my point any less true.

You know you're defeated; that's why the deflections and your inability to be honest with me. In the end, YOU will be screwed by the very monster you are helping to build... and you will have done it to yourself. We got a lot of ground to cover grasshopper. I'm not going to try and debate everyone at the same time who want some - though the best is invited to a REAL debate on another board where it will be one on one - no holds barred.

Yes, the court said “certain” rights, not all rights. Some rights are actually inalienable rights such as the religion you worship, your preference on a mate, the kind of food you wish to eat. But your right to free speech is a right granted to you by the US Constitution.

A wall will no more empower the government than a bowl of fruit loops. Government doesn’t get its power from a wall. Government gets its power from the MSM, from brainwashing, from government dependents, from educational indoctrination, but it doesn’t get it from a wall.


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You have the world's greatest ability to either remain the most ignorant individual I've ever met or one that is in love with abject stupidity.

The Rights to unalienable Rights - and let us get it right - UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, are the Rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,-'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;' and to 'secure,' not grant or create, these rights, governments are instituted. That property which a man has honestly acquired he retains full control of, subject to these limitations: First, that he shall not use it to his neighbor's injury, and that does not mean that he must use it for his neighbor's benefit; second, that if the devotes it to a public use, he gives to the public a right to control that use; and third, that whenever the public needs require, the public may take it upon payment of due compensation. BUDD v. PEOPLE OF STATE OF NEW YORK, 143 U.S. 517 (1892)

The point being, which contradicts the swill you keep preaching is that the GOVERNMENT DOES NOT GRANT NOR CREATE RIGHTS. Those PRECISE Rights are the Rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson stated:

The Declaration of Independence [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and the rights of man."

It has been explained to you in great detail how the wall has unintended consequences. Yet you choose to deny the realities of our times. For you, the wall is a religion. As you've stated, "you just want them (sic) gone. As this thread progresses, it will be interesting to see how little value your fellow build the wall supporters feel about your attitude toward Freeom and Liberty... ESPECIALLY if they have children who may have live in the aftermath of what you hope to create.

 

[sealybobo]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

 

[Porter Rockwell]

What's so funny, you said walls don't word in-spite of all the evidence to the contrary. The fact is they do work, that's why the border patrol is asking for more. If you don't like how it looks, do an about face, problem solved.

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Love ya'all. Good fences make for good neighbors. We have liberal assholes that give illegal aliens freebies . Sanctuary cities. Now, nobody got to vote on whether or not their home town became a sanctuary city, that was so much a liberal cadre " They just presumed they could get away with" thing. Sanctuary cities? Seems that was a overriding Constitutional issue people ignore. Who got to vote to give their city / state ignore federal immigration laws? I didn't, did any of you? Was it on a ballot anywhere? Because, that a pretty significant issue. Ignoring the will of the people and constitutional laws.

I don't have to worry about sanctuary cities in my State, the State outlawed them and require State sanctioned law enforcement agencies (which are all of them) to cooperate with immigration officials.

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Um, well the rest of us have to worry about unsanctioned legitimizing of illegal aliens. Giving them the vote. The motor voter thing, the whole nine yards. Everything about giving illegal aliens special rights. But they can't follow the same immigration laws everyone else does. Sanctuary cities for Albanians? Or Hungarians? Just Mexicans Because, that's fair. Just Mexicans. Mexicans are so special they transcend the Constitution. And when you notice something broken about that? Hate and xenophobia is what they say.

If you expect them to follow the same immigration laws and regulations and wait their turn then you have to give them a chance to do so. In Central American countries and also in Mexico to a lesser extent, these people have no chance to legally immigrate.

These countries have immigration limits establish by congress. That limit is reduced by family sponsored immigration, employer sponsored immigration, critical skills immigration, change in immigration status of those holding visas, refugee admissions, reserved categories such as the clergy and other special circumstances. After reducing the immigration limit for all these categories, there is essential no way to legally immigrate even if you wait for years.

There's a rule that bans a person from legally immigrating for 5 or 10 years if caught entering the country illegally or overstaying visas. However, in these countries that ban means nothing to people deported because there's no way they would ever get into the country legally so they just keep trying.

Immigration laws make no sense. Why does it take over 10 years to immigrate from Honduras and 1 year from Ethiopia and never from India if don't have a family sponsor.

The USA is like the best restaurant in town. Sometimes you have to make reservations months ahead of time. When you finally get there, you wait hours to get a table. The restaurant can’t serve everybody because it’s not capable. But what you don’t do is bust into the place and have a seat because you don’t want to wait like everybody else.

We have limits on immigration for a reason. People have to assimilate and learn our culture. If we let everybody in, then they would be changing our country like they are now.


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Ray... You almost got close to something. Instead of making that post a statement, I'd almost BEG you to phrase that last paragraph you made in the form of a question. You would be in JEOPARDY (no pun intended.)

 

[OKTexas]

Um, well the rest of us have to worry about unsanctioned legitimizing of illegal aliens. Giving them the vote. The motor voter thing, the whole nine yards. Everything about giving illegal aliens special rights. But they can't follow the same immigration laws everyone else does. Sanctuary cities for Albanians? Or Hungarians? Just Mexicans Because, that's fair. Just Mexicans. Mexicans are so special they transcend the Constitution. And when you notice something broken about that? Hate and xenophobia is what they say.

If you expect them to follow the same immigration laws and regulations and wait their turn then you have to give them a chance to do so. In Central American countries and also in Mexico to a lesser extent, these people have no chance to legally immigrate.

These countries have immigration limits establish by congress. That limit is reduced by family sponsored immigration, employer sponsored immigration, critical skills immigration, change in immigration status of those holding visas, refugee admissions, reserved categories such as the clergy and other special circumstances. After reducing the immigration limit for all these categories, there is essential no way to legally immigrate even if you wait for years.

There's a rule that bans a person from legally legally immigrating for 5 or 10 years if caught entering the country illegally or overstaying visas. However, in these countries that ban means nothing to people deported because there's no way they would ever get into the country legally.

Immigration laws make no sense. Why does it take over 10 years to immigrate from Honduras and 1 year from Ethiopia and never from India if don't have family sponsor.

Because we can't hold them all. You seem to think anyone who wants to should be able to move to America. That would be the end of America.

Absolutely not. We just need to have policies that are fairer and make sense. Do we really think Ethiopians make such good citizens that they should be admitted in a year and Hondurans should have to wait 10 year or more.

Why would we want either unless they have skills this country needs? Have you ever been to rural areas of Honduras?

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No, but I've been to Guatemala. It's not about letting the in the people we need. It's about changing the environment that sends tens of thousand of people to our border. Instead of sending our military to the our border to sit on their ass and build housing for detainees, we need to clean out the Northern Triangle and stop sending money to these dictators that funnel it to cartels and gangs. We need to increase the immigration limits on Central American countries by only few thousand so there is reasonable wait time. That in itself will reduce the number heading toward our border. By making life better in these countries we will not only reduce illegal immigration but also reduce drugs headed toward the US.

I disagree, we can't police or be the refuge for every country in the world and maintain our lifestyle and culture. We already have too much crime and poverty, there is no reason to import more. Past interventions have proved fruitless and now you want to throw good money after bad. I can't buy that, it's time to take care of Americans and if we need to use force to secure our country, so be it.

.

 

[danielpalos]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

Capitalism is worthless if we need a wall.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

Maybe you should look at post # 3731 and access the link I left there.

No thank you. I will stand by my beliefs that we need stronger border security. As a child of legal immigrants and first generation American, I am extremly anti illegal immigration.

Bigotry is not a virtue. Your beliefs have been supplanted by facts.

I gave you facts that you conveniently ignored.

Let me ask you this even though I know you'll divert and won't answer.

You can buy a house for $500k it may be a great house, it may be average but needs some work or it may be a complete money pit. You don't know. Would you still buy the house? Of course not. So then why would you want people sneaking in here when you don't know who they are? Doesn't make any logical sense. This is not bigotry. Don't use Leftist tactics on me. I am a Jew. I know bigotry. I live it almost daily.

Look, this is no diversionary tactic. It's plain and it's simple. Either people have a Right to Liberty or they do not. As long as people are engaging in the free enterprise system, I do not think of them as "sneaking" in. Had you actually READ this thread, you would know exactly what I think. That way, you would not have to make ridiculous assumptions and then pretend to ask me a question based upon a hypothetical straw man. So, do this, read post # 2806. That should tell you my feelings toward immigration laws in general. Then read these posts:

3475, 3476, 3613, 3669, and 3731. It does little for me to keep repeating the same points over and over every day.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

Maybe you should look at post # 3731 and access the link I left there.

No thank you. I will stand by my beliefs that we need stronger border security. As a child of legal immigrants and first generation American, I am extremly anti illegal immigration.

Bigotry is not a virtue. Your beliefs have been supplanted by facts.

I gave you facts that you conveniently ignored.

Let me ask you this even though I know you'll divert and won't answer.

You can buy a house for $500k it may be a great house, it may be average but needs some work or it may be a complete money pit. You don't know. Would you still buy the house? Of course not. So then why would you want people sneaking in here when you don't know who they are? Doesn't make any logical sense. This is not bigotry. Don't use Leftist tactics on me. I am a Jew. I know bigotry. I live it almost daily.

Look, this is no diversionary tactic. It's plain and it's simple. Either people have a Right to Liberty or they do not. As long as people are engaging in the free enterprise system, I do not think of them as "sneaking" in. Had you actually READ this thread, you would know exactly what I think. That way, you would not have to make ridiculous assumptions and then pretend to ask me a question based upon a hypothetical straw man. So, do this, read post # 2806. That should tell you my feelings toward immigration laws in general. Then read these posts:

3475, 3476, 3613, 3669, and 3731. It does little for me to keep repeating the same points over and over every day.

We need to document and understand who the people who come in here are. Ever see the gates at an airport? You are just trolling now.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

This is NOT a debate forum

Just what the hell do YOU think it is, corncob?






You think this is a forum where you simply issue your decrees and edicts about truth, honor and the American Way?
You're an even bigger blabber-brain than I realized!

1) This board, if you read the rules, the stuff about the board, etc. then this is a DISCUSSION board

2) You are standing in front of a mirror, projecting.

As for me, I've not said where I stand. I may be playing the devil's advocate just to show you the flaws in your thinking process - and there are plenty. What "decree" are you claiming I made or you just spewing crap again after you took that ass whipping?

 

[hazlnut]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

A,B

A major public works programs, building a infrastructure at a price that will never be justified by the outcomes.

People who actually believed Trump when he promised something that would never happen must take responsibility for their own wilful ignorance.



90% of drugs cross through legal ports of entry.

It's called smuggling.

Build a wall, they will tunnel under, climb over, test the wall to find a blind spot with surveillance and then blow a hole through it.

False sense of security.

Crime is prevented by intel, multi-agency coordination, and taking away incentives.

Most of the people here illegally are overstaying their temp work visa -- by the time you track them down, it will be time for a new harvest and they'll have a new LEGAL work visa.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Maybe you should look at post # 3731 and access the link I left there.

No thank you. I will stand by my beliefs that we need stronger border security. As a child of legal immigrants and first generation American, I am extremly anti illegal immigration.

Bigotry is not a virtue. Your beliefs have been supplanted by facts.

I gave you facts that you conveniently ignored.

Let me ask you this even though I know you'll divert and won't answer.

You can buy a house for $500k it may be a great house, it may be average but needs some work or it may be a complete money pit. You don't know. Would you still buy the house? Of course not. So then why would you want people sneaking in here when you don't know who they are? Doesn't make any logical sense. This is not bigotry. Don't use Leftist tactics on me. I am a Jew. I know bigotry. I live it almost daily.

Look, this is no diversionary tactic. It's plain and it's simple. Either people have a Right to Liberty or they do not. As long as people are engaging in the free enterprise system, I do not think of them as "sneaking" in. Had you actually READ this thread, you would know exactly what I think. That way, you would not have to make ridiculous assumptions and then pretend to ask me a question based upon a hypothetical straw man. So, do this, read post # 2806. That should tell you my feelings toward immigration laws in general. Then read these posts:

3475, 3476, 3613, 3669, and 3731. It does little for me to keep repeating the same points over and over every day.

We need to document and understand who the people who come in here are. Ever see the gates at an airport? You are just trolling now.

Asking you questions is "trolling" someone? Confronting myths and misconceptions with reality is trolling? On what planet?

Do you think that the citizens of one state should only go to a neighboring state via some "legal point of entry?"

 

[Porter Rockwell]

If you expect them to follow the same immigration laws and regulations and wait their turn then you have to give them a chance to do so. In Central American countries and also in Mexico to a lesser extent, these people have no chance to legally immigrate.

These countries have immigration limits establish by congress. That limit is reduced by family sponsored immigration, employer sponsored immigration, critical skills immigration, change in immigration status of those holding visas, refugee admissions, reserved categories such as the clergy and other special circumstances. After reducing the immigration limit for all these categories, there is essential no way to legally immigrate even if you wait for years.

There's a rule that bans a person from legally legally immigrating for 5 or 10 years if caught entering the country illegally or overstaying visas. However, in these countries that ban means nothing to people deported because there's no way they would ever get into the country legally.

Immigration laws make no sense. Why does it take over 10 years to immigrate from Honduras and 1 year from Ethiopia and never from India if don't have family sponsor.

Because we can't hold them all. You seem to think anyone who wants to should be able to move to America. That would be the end of America.

Absolutely not. We just need to have policies that are fairer and make sense. Do we really think Ethiopians make such good citizens that they should be admitted in a year and Hondurans should have to wait 10 year or more.

Why would we want either unless they have skills this country needs? Have you ever been to rural areas of Honduras?

.

No, but I've been to Guatemala. It's not about letting the in the people we need. It's about changing the environment that sends tens of thousand of people to our border. Instead of sending our military to the our border to sit on their ass and build housing for detainees, we need to clean out the Northern Triangle and stop sending money to these dictators that funnel it to cartels and gangs. We need to increase the immigration limits on Central American countries by only few thousand so there is reasonable wait time. That in itself will reduce the number heading toward our border. By making life better in these countries we will not only reduce illegal immigration but also reduce drugs headed toward the US.

I disagree, we can't police or be the refuge for every country in the world and maintain our lifestyle and culture. We already have too much crime and poverty, there is no reason to import more. Past interventions have proved fruitless and now you want to throw good money after bad. I can't buy that, it's time to take care of Americans and if we need to use force to secure our country, so be it.

.

Would you take a moment and kindly explain American culture to me?

 

[OKTexas]

As I asked you before and you conveniently ignored, do you live in a house with walls and doors? Why should our country not have the same protection?

Because a country is not private property. When you wall off a country, you're walling off someone else's property. It should be up to property owners along the border whether they want to put up a wall or not.

Why are you only concerned about border properties? The government uses imminent domain to take properties all the time. Where's your concern for the folks that lose land for a Post Office or other government functions?

.

 

[OKTexas]

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

Here's a live link: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/publications/Hanson-Dec09.pdf

And pardon me if I disregard information provided by a left wing one worlder think tank.

.

 

[bripat9643]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

Thanks for quoting the great expert on immigration, George S. Patton.

 

[OKTexas]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

He doesn't seem to understand that's what ports of entry are for.

.

 

[eagle1462010]

So one of the functions of the federal government is not to protect it’s citizens?
And flooding our borders with cheap Labor is enforcing the General Welfare clause?
You have an interesting POV of what defines a nation.
We might as well rename the US the Open Borders.

You are dishonest and probably amoral. Since I have so specified at least a dozen times that it is the function of the government to protect us - it just should not serve as a tool to protect you from your own actions. As for the rest, even danielpalos has a point once each year. He's already answered this lame ass allegation from you and others. You need some new material.

Since I cannot "debate" a dozen people as the delusional call these exchanges, I'm sure you will wait your turn. I'm having a discussion with Ray, so save your lies and when we're on equal footing, I'll take you on.

If you want a one on one argument take it to pm.

Did you ever read Proverbs 18: 13

Already did offer anyone open challenge to take place on another board. Take it to PM to arrange. No takers. People are afraid to go one on one on a level playing field. Got anything else?

Since 5 Billion is a pittance of the budget what is wrong with giving the President a bone? Doesn't he deserve a pet project just like all the other pork earmarks in the bills?

If John McCain, Romey, Jeb Bush, Mark Rubio, Ted Cruz, or any of a half dozen other republican presidential candidates were president and asked for 5 billion dollars for border security last year they would have it now. Why? because they are politicians. They know how to deal with congress and the media. They would be asked for 5 billion to improve border security including improving barriers at selected locations and better facilities for detainees. They certainly would not be asked for money to build a big beautiful wall to keep out Mexican rapist and murders. That's nuts. Such language is guaranteed to create a fight in congress, not approval which should be the goal. This is the main reason I never would consider voting for Trump. His primary goal is winning, what he actually wins is of little importance. It's winning that's important to him, not the actual prize, it's about rubbing the opposition's face in the dirt. For Trump and unfortunately many of his followers that what's important. Look where we are now, a shutdown of government that creating hardships for millions of Americas and it's completely unnecessary. The fact is most of you could have done a better job than Trump because he's a sick narcissist that's totally out of his depth.

Career politicians dont want it fixed

 

[eagle1462010]

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

It is not my responsibility to pay to make them become like us. It is their problem. Their country. And yheir responsibility.

 

[eagle1462010]

Eminent Domain doesn't exist in the US? Again border patrol agents have asked for it. Not sure why your or my opinion overrides their respective opinions as they are on the frontlines.

The tradition in the US is a bit different than most countries. Here we place a primacy on individual rights. Instead of asking why the will of individual property owners should override that of the border patrol, we first as the converse - why should the will of the border patrol override that of individual property owners?

Your use of the term "frontlines" suggests you buy into the war justification, which I find ridiculous.

Except they are on the frontlines. They have guns, they have taken casualties and the people trying to cross illegally are often brutalized by coyotes and drug cartel members. The wall IMO is necessary. You are of course free to disagree, it is a free country. And they are SMEs. If a doctor told you that you needed surgery would you dismiss his opinion because others disagree with it? He is the expert for a reason. Border Patrol agents are experts in border security and they are pleading for a wall. You show a lot of hubris ignoring their please. Unfortunate.

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

We tried laws, we tried regulation, we tried more border patrol agents, and these people still come here against our wishes. Now we need more barriers to stop them from getting in.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

We have NEVER tried regulation. You are operating on laws that are in excess of FIFTY years old and don't even apply to the situation.

The fact that you don't understand we are NOT going to keep people out discredits anything you say on this board. Whether we like it or not, wall or no wall, they will come. BTW, in view of what I just told you, there is a question you should ask in light of my response. Surely, you are not so much of a dullard that you don't know what that question is.

If that seems unfair to you, it's the treatment I got from your side. Then, again, you have only assumed things; you never ASK.

1986 regulation was tried to deny their ability to work here. Penalized businesses for hiring them. The I-9 form. They skirted this law by ignoring forged ids. A network was set up to give fake ids to illegals. When caught workers get deported and come right back

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

Here's a live link: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/publications/Hanson-Dec09.pdf

And pardon me if I disregard information provided by a left wing one worlder think tank.

.

Well champ, the joke is now on you. That was a link used by a pro-wall supporter in a debate with someone on another board. I chose to read it.

Thank you for being dishonest about it. It's going to make it easier to prove that build the wall guy is not the beaming paragon of virtue he thinks he is. left wing one worlder think tank... LMAO.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

You are lying. It's ONE of your laundry list reasons for being for the wall

EXCUSE ME for interjecting here, I see you are STILL arguing about the wall! I honestly don't see what the debate is about:

Indigent Illegals crossing the southern borders in mass quantities? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This has a negative impact on our resources and wage earning potential for many americans competing in similar job markets that Mexicans do here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Putting up a complete, better wall would hugely impact their coming here? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

This country safer from potential terrorist intrusion with the wall? THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

Being for the wall? Are you kidding me? This is never about a wall, it is about national security and sovereignty. If anyone says it is about protectionism, so what if it is? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me protectionism is bad and they are against it and I will ask them if they have a lock on their front door, if they lock their car, have a security light or security system? LET ONE PERSON HERE tell me they don't PROTECT what they have, and I'll call you a LIAR.

Being for the wall? The issue here is BEING FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. The wall makes us more secure with it than without it. Anyone here arguing against national security is either a commie, an anti-American or has fruit loops for brains.

Better ways to do it? BULL.

Cheaper ways to do it? BULL?

Immoral? Go fuck yourself.

Anyone who claims a wall is "immoral" against these mobs of dirty, stinking, diseased illegals but its not "immoral" for what blindly letting these people into the country is doing to us here, is a fucking idiot. Maybe you don't see it where you live, but we are approaching 12 million of these people. That's about 4% of the population. Cut them off today and in another decade with their kids (all supported by low income government programs that come out of YOUR pocket, they'll be at 10%.

Like all things, you get what you fund. We are funding a low income, low education, low skill, high dependence work force. The exact OPPOSITE of what this country made itself great with.

Enough. End it now. Its the LAW. Defend the borders. I'm tired of hearing people argue against the most basic, fundamental responsibility of the federal government. Trump: tear the shit down until these motherfuckers in Congress say uncle! It's go for broke right now and I say put the bastard democrats in prison if they continue to block what we put you in office to do. If you don't like Trump and didn't put him in office, fine. When you get YOUR guy in office, then it'll be your time to get YOUR agenda carried out.

But I really think democrats oppose the wall so much because THEY KNOW IT WILL WORK. And they don't WANT it to work. Democratic scum care less about Americans than they do every dirty wetback minority they can dig out from under a rock.

Did anyone ever tell you that you are freaking HILARIOUS? Yours was the funniest freaking post I've seen since I've been on this board. Thank you for starting my day off with a laugh. Now down to business:

1) I am not arguing with ANYONE about your silly wall

2) This is NOT a debate forum, so we are not debating anything

3) Just because you make a bold assertion and put it in big blue letters will not make it come true

4) EVERY non - partisan study I have read contradicts what the white supremacists are feeding Congress. NOW, let me show you how this works:

"Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash"

file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Hanson-Dec09%20(3).pdf

(I had to copy and paste that link so you will have to do likewise to read it)

See the documentation in quotation marks and a citing source? Notice how the study figures in not only the cost, but the contribution of the foreigner as well? When you do that, you get a different economic picture.

You want people to take sides and if they don't agree with you and then you use mob rule to ridicule and harass them? That's your strategy? No wonder public opinion is swinging left.

5) The goalposts are once again being moved. As soon as I answer one objection, you build the wall guys conjure up another. My current discussion is that Ray has a totally different argument - and at least his argument is half ass honest. Yours is absolute stupidity.

This is NOT an issue about National Security because the American people are WILLINGLY doing business with the foreigners. There is no threat of war and they are not taking any more than we are willing to give

6) Just because you can deny what I'm saying will NEVER disprove it

7) You can go fuck yourself too. I'd prefer to have said that in person

8) I've never weighed in on the morality of your silly wall so you had to create a straw man there in order to buffer the ass kicking you're taking here

9) Your dumbassery is really showing. THREE times in this thread I have told you I'm not on the left; that I voted for Trump. So, lying won't give much credence to your B.S.

10) Finally, all of this "wall" business was the talking points of the left BEFORE it was right wing fodder. You should know the history of the arguments you're making.

It's damn foolish to trash the Constitution, take a dump on your unalienable Rights, and deliberately attempt to make America a third world dictatorship on the basis of lies. Last night I heard the president of Egypt say that we are the world's strongest military power and it was our responsibility to help fight tyranny. I don't know if I agree with his proposition; however, it is the epitome of idiocy to try and duplicate the ways of people who are inferior to you.

A better use of our money and time is to help other nations become like us so they don't feel a need to be at war with each other and not have the requisite knowledge to build a constitutional Republic with the potential of being financially strong and humane toward others.

It is not my responsibility to pay to make them become like us. It is their problem. Their country. And yheir responsibility.

You will either be a leader of a follower. You choose to be a follower. When America mirrors Venezuela, you'll be as happy as a pig in slop.