Why is climate science political?

[Old Rocks]

And after the weather disasters in 2010, 2011, the 'apocalyptic' vision looks like an accurate prediction.

 

[Old Rocks]

And this explains why the "batting average for NOAA in predicting the hurricanes and storms for any season from 2000 forward has been about .500.

Seriously, they could do as well guessing with no equipment, cost, experience or training whatsoever.

Both Swiss Re, and Munich Re state that there has been an increase of extreme weather events by a factor of 3 to 5 in the last 40 years.

We're not talking about reviewing history. we are talking about using science to predict what has not happened yet.

NOAA knows more about doing this than any other organization on earth and they aren't any better than a kid throwing darts at a board.

Seems another nutter has just been slapped down on this very issue. Can you talk in something other than 'talking point'?

Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
You sure venturing into models is where you want to go? Please, tell us what the models said about the 2011 hurricane season. Where are sea levels supposed to be based on 1990 predictions?

Maybe you want to take a step back and tell us how the locations of data collection are accurate? Yes, we know all about the heat sinks surrounding many stations.
2011 Hurricane predictions and climate issues nor based upon climate models, so I'm not really sure why this interests you, that said:

NOAA predictions for Atlantic Hurricane season
NOAA hurricane outlook indicates an above-normal Atlantic season


Quote:
12 to 18 named storms (winds of 39 mph or higher), of which:

6 to 10 could become hurricanes (winds of 74 mph or higher), including:

3 to 6 major hurricanes (Category 3, 4 or 5; winds of 111 mph or higher)

2011 Atlantic storm record:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/data/tcr/summary_atlc_2011.pdf


Quote:
19 named storms
7 became hurricanes (winds of 74 mph or higher)
4 became major hurricanes (Category 3, 4, or 5; winds of 111mph or higher)

1990 sea level predictions by 2010 - between 2.25 cm and 4.5 cm above 1990 averages

Actual sea level rise from 1990 averages as measured in 2010 - approximately 7.5 cm.

Early IPCC predictions were based on a 1.9mm per year rise, the average over the last 22 years has been 3.4 mm/year and this is increasing.
__________________
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

 

[code1211]

And after the weather disasters in 2010, 2011, the 'apocalyptic' vision looks like an accurate prediction.

What the Gore movie shows is Florida and half of the Eastern USA under water.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, it does. After the melting of a major amount of ice in Greenland and Antarctica. At a long time in the future. But that will happen if the Arctic Ocean clathrates let go. And there are many disturbing indictations from that region.

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - METHANE

The most catastrophically dangerous methane source is Arctic sea floor
methane hydrate. This is frozen solid methane gas under pressure in sea floor
sediments. The largest source of Arctic methane hydrate is the East Siberian
Arctic shelf (ESAS) , the largest continental shelf in the world. Methane is now
venting to the atmosphere from under the shelf. All the evidence indicates that
an abrupt massive release of methane gas from Arctic hydrates could happen
which most likely would be catastrophe to the global climate and our planet.

The next great immediate danger are the vast regions of Arctic and subarctic
wetlands. These are peat lands that hold the most carbon of any of the
world’s soils. They naturally emit some methane but as they warm they put out
methane. The can respond rapidly to a jump in Arctic warming putting out much
more methane.

The third huge methane source is the vast regions of permafrost. As the world
warms the permafrost is thawing and is emitting methane. Permafrost can’t
respond rapidly to a jump in warming but its thawing at some point becomes
irreversible.

 

[skookerasbil]

More bad news for the k00ks of this country tonight up in Wisconsin...........as I had astutely predicted months ago.

This is total rejection of tax and spend BS...........and think about the ammunition Romney has as we approach November talking about how Obama spent 90 billion on green energy and netted 16,000 jobs.


fucking priceless...........


The earthquake before the tsunami in November............and not even the nuttiest of the k00ks can blame it on global warming!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fI8834iCgo]Thomas Dolby - She Blinded Me With Science - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bobgnote]

Suckassbil big-spam-boom.

So, Suck. If you don't have anything to write, slide on by Quantum Windbag and join his suck-sock Navy.

 

[skookerasbil]

Wait'll Romney rolls this out in the debates......................


Green energy jobs far short of Obama goal | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner


90 billion for 16,000 jobs






>>Yo Bob-0.....did the pink just for you s0n<<

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[saveliberty]

The Kooks usually run and start a new thread on the same topic about now.

 

[Trakar]

The Kooks usually run and start a new thread on the same topic about now.

How about we just pump some relevent and referenced information into this thread instead, a "recycling" if you will.

Perhaps one of the reasons that climate change has become a poster-child for so many ideological arguments is that the science involved portends implications that spread across the spectrum of human interaction. Mike Hulme has written a book that was published back in 2009 entitled "Why we Disagree about Climate Change." Here is a link to the book's preface and chapter#6. It is an interesting read that I think provides information and understanding regardless of the perspective one brings to the subject.


"Why We Disagree about Climate Change" - http://wiki.umt.edu/odccss/images/b/ba/Why_we_disagree.pdf

You can read the link yourself so I'm not going to quote any large blocks of text but there are some main ideas presented that I feel are not only relevent to this thread, but also generally helpful for each of us to look at and understand what we and others bring to the discussion of climate change.

Climate change was initially presented to society in the manner of most physical science, but as the impacts and influences of this science became more evident, it has shifted places in people's thinking. No longer do most people look at climate change as the set of science principles and facts related to how our planet's environment is changing, and instead it has become how the unique mix of each of our social, cultural, political and ethical considerations are filtering and redefining what climate change and the impacts we expect from it mean to us individually.

Before effective long-term plans can be activated with regards to climate change, we are going to have to learn to understand where these different perspectives are coming from and what we are going to have to do to get everyone working together to arrive at a mutually satisfying resolution.

Hulme breaks these perspectives down into several categories, a few of the ones he mentions are:

Climate Change as justification for a coomodification of the atmosphere, and fossil fuel feedstocks.

Climate Change as inspiration for global cooperation

Climate Change as a security threat

One of the most interesting aspects of Hulme's exploration of climate change is the fact that individuals tend to frame, narrate, picture and interpret climate change in very different ways. Climate change is framed in multiple ways by both the people presenting ideas and by the people who are filtering what they receive from presentations.

Interesting stuff, I encourage all to read this, regardless of personal perspective on the topic, if nothing else it might help us all to relate a little better to other people and their perspective

 

[code1211]

Yes, it does. After the melting of a major amount of ice in Greenland and Antarctica. At a long time in the future. But that will happen if the Arctic Ocean clathrates let go. And there are many disturbing indictations from that region.

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - METHANE

The most catastrophically dangerous methane source is Arctic sea floor
methane hydrate. This is frozen solid methane gas under pressure in sea floor
sediments. The largest source of Arctic methane hydrate is the East Siberian
Arctic shelf (ESAS) , the largest continental shelf in the world. Methane is now
venting to the atmosphere from under the shelf. All the evidence indicates that
an abrupt massive release of methane gas from Arctic hydrates could happen
which most likely would be catastrophe to the global climate and our planet.

The next great immediate danger are the vast regions of Arctic and subarctic
wetlands. These are peat lands that hold the most carbon of any of the
world’s soils. They naturally emit some methane but as they warm they put out
methane. The can respond rapidly to a jump in Arctic warming putting out much
more methane.

The third huge methane source is the vast regions of permafrost. As the world
warms the permafrost is thawing and is emitting methane. Permafrost can’t
respond rapidly to a jump in warming but its thawing at some point becomes
irreversible.

And how long ago were the causes that allowed current release of the Calthrates?

That point from Gore specifically was denied by the judge as being unsupported.

 

[bobgnote]

Yes, it does. After the melting of a major amount of ice in Greenland and Antarctica. At a long time in the future. But that will happen if the Arctic Ocean clathrates let go. And there are many disturbing indictations from that region.

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - METHANE

The most catastrophically dangerous methane source is Arctic sea floor
methane hydrate. This is frozen solid methane gas under pressure in sea floor
sediments. The largest source of Arctic methane hydrate is the East Siberian
Arctic shelf (ESAS) , the largest continental shelf in the world. Methane is now
venting to the atmosphere from under the shelf. All the evidence indicates that
an abrupt massive release of methane gas from Arctic hydrates could happen
which most likely would be catastrophe to the global climate and our planet.

The next great immediate danger are the vast regions of Arctic and subarctic wetlands. These are peat lands that hold the most carbon of any of the
world’s soils. They naturally emit some methane but as they warm they put out
methane. The can respond rapidly to a jump in Arctic warming putting out much
more methane.

The third huge methane source is the vast regions of permafrost. As the world
warms the permafrost is thawing and is emitting methane. Permafrost can’t respond rapidly to a jump in warming but its thawing at some point becomes irreversible.

And how long ago were the causes that allowed current release of the Calthrates?

That point from Gore specifically was denied by the judge as being unsupported.

Your judge was a punk who sucks balls under the BP boardroom table. The methane release is documented and current, methane is a pernicious GHG, which will trigger runaway global warming, Gore only vaguely addressed acidification and he ignores re-greening, to let the tea-room queers shoot their speed and trick in his face, and Britain is a BP tea-room.

Over here in the US are a load of Christians and Log Cabin boyz, who eat Brit-shit. You are one of those intriguing, closet-case guys, aren't you, codeDownlow.

 

[westwall]

And after the weather disasters in 2010, 2011, the 'apocalyptic' vision looks like an accurate prediction.

Yeah, those things NEVER happened ever before, nope not ever....Below are links to 3 storms from the 1890's and I tossed one in from 1933. This refutes the bullshit meme that the storms of today are any different than those of the past. Punch in ANY year you wish and you will see that the same thing happens every year. In other words olfraud when you predict that it's going to get dark at night you can bet a good amount of money that you'll be right...but is that really a prediction?

Another epic fail on the part of the religious zealots.

Baltic Sea storm flood 1872

The Chesapeake/Potomac Hurricane of August 23, 1933s

The Great Louisiana Hurricane of 1812 - New Orleans History & Culture | Examiner.com

1899 Atlantic hurricane season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[percysunshine]

And after the weather disasters in 2010, 2011, the 'apocalyptic' vision looks like an accurate prediction.

Yeah, those things NEVER happened ever before, nope not ever....Below are links to 3 storms from the 1890's and I tossed one in from 1933. This refutes the bullshit meme that the storms of today are any different than those of the past. Punch in ANY year you wish and you will see that the same thing happens every year. In other words olfraud when you predict that it's going to get dark at night you can bet a good amount of money that you'll be right...but is that really a prediction?

Another epic fail on the part of the religious zealots.

Baltic Sea storm flood 1872

The Chesapeake/Potomac Hurricane of August 23, 1933s

The Great Louisiana Hurricane of 1812 - New Orleans History & Culture | Examiner.com

1899 Atlantic hurricane season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shhhh........Gaia might be watching. The Environmentalists' God can bring fire and brimstone upon the planet.


All silliness aside, if Jesus, Allah, and Gaia walk into a bar, which two of them are going to leave together?

 

[Big Fitz]

And after the weather disasters in 2010, 2011, the 'apocalyptic' vision looks like an accurate prediction.

Yeah, those things NEVER happened ever before, nope not ever....Below are links to 3 storms from the 1890's and I tossed one in from 1933. This refutes the bullshit meme that the storms of today are any different than those of the past. Punch in ANY year you wish and you will see that the same thing happens every year. In other words olfraud when you predict that it's going to get dark at night you can bet a good amount of money that you'll be right...but is that really a prediction?

Another epic fail on the part of the religious zealots.

Baltic Sea storm flood 1872

The Chesapeake/Potomac Hurricane of August 23, 1933s

The Great Louisiana Hurricane of 1812 - New Orleans History & Culture | Examiner.com

1899 Atlantic hurricane season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shit. You should look at some of the 'fresh water hurricanes' that have happened on the great lakes. Many between the years of 1871 and 1940. Boy I'm rusty. I can't recall many off of the top of my head, but the Lake Huron blow in 1913 (IIRC) killed more sailors, sank more steel ships and damaged more shipping than any other single blow in history. The Armistice Day Storm in 1940 was a whopper on Lake Michigan too. Killed people a hundred miles inland from it's severity. Lake Erie and Lake Superior both have had incredibly big storms too. I also remember the Mataafa Storm of 1905. THat's a freaky one.

Big storms come and go.

 

[skookerasbil]

Hey Fitz............check this out...........they tracked down Bob-O right after the Wisconsin recall results.............


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEwXa197uBU]The Most Disappointed Barrett Supporter In Wisconsin - YouTube[/ame]

WHo knew??!!!


LMAO..............fairy...............

 

[Big Fitz]

Hey Fitz............check this out...........they tracked down Bob-O right after the Wisconsin recall results.............


The Most Disappointed Barrett Supporter In Wisconsin - YouTube

WHo knew??!!!


LMAO..............fairy...............

LOL Skook. Yeah, I saw that about an hour after it was shot. Laughing my ass off.

 

[Trakar]

More bad news for the k00ks of this country tonight up in Wisconsin...........as I had astutely predicted months ago.

? what does this have to do with climate change, climate science, or anything even remotely related to environment?

 

[Trakar]

And how long ago were the causes that allowed current release of the Calthrates?

That point from Gore specifically was denied by the judge as being unsupported.

I am not aware of any judge "denying" anything. In the UK rulings on the showing of Gore's documentary to UK school children, the judge did rule that certain sections did not seem to present information that was fully in accord with IPCC statements of the time, but he didn't deny or reject any of the film, and only found that some areas needed to be properly qualified and referenced, which was accomplished with the discussion guidelines developed by the UK education department.