Why not move to Cuba or France if you want socialism?

[EriktheRed]

Sure, but I don't know how you think that justifies anything the government has done in the last 80 years.

How does it NOT justify anything?

The 5th and the 10th Amendments bar pretty much everything the government has done in the last 80 years.

You mean those things? Which fallible human beings wrote?

 

[bripat9643]

Why not move to Cuba or France if you want socialism?

Why destroy America???? We don't want your rat poison.

Or join the US military...it's socialist....and does quite well.

It only "does well" against other militaries, which are all socialist.

 

[bripat9643]

How does it NOT justify anything?

The 5th and the 10th Amendments bar pretty much everything the government has done in the last 80 years.

You mean those things? Which fallible human beings wrote?

Yep. The people who wrote them are fallible. Nevertheless, the Constitution is the law of the land. The fact that it isn't perfect doesn't mean the government is free to ignore it.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Did that nerd ever answer me and defend his ridiculous assertion ?

 

[EriktheRed]

The 5th and the 10th Amendments bar pretty much everything the government has done in the last 80 years.

You mean those things? Which fallible human beings wrote?

Yep. The people who wrote them are fallible. Nevertheless, the Constitution is the law of the land. The fact that it isn't perfect doesn't mean the government is free to ignore it.

But apparently you have a problem accepting dictionary definitions.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean those things? Which fallible human beings wrote?

Yep. The people who wrote them are fallible. Nevertheless, the Constitution is the law of the land. The fact that it isn't perfect doesn't mean the government is free to ignore it.

But apparently you have a problem accepting dictionary definitions.

So your theory is that if the Constitution has a single flaw in it, then the government is free to ignore it? Is that really what you're trying to tell everyone in this forum who isn't suffering from brain damage?

 

[tooAlive]

Did you know Cuba's healthcare ratings plummeted after the Glorious Revoultion?

Did you know we train many of our doctors there?

You sound very un-informed.

I just got back from Cuba six months ago, and actually had the pleasure of visiting one of Cuba's better hospitals. I even got to take a small tour around where the patients stay.

Let me tell you, the word horrific does not even begin to describe what goes on inside that place. I had the opportunity to go because my grandfather actually lives there and was scheduled to go visit a doctor. What an unforgettable experience it was.

It saddens me when I hear people such as yourself mindlessly praise a system when you have absolutely no idea what the unfortunate reality really is.

 

[Colin]

hey, Mr. Pervert-Pic... now some lines from me: ...time to stop this Obamination (killing/destruction of the youngest breed/race of Americans, the Babies... (3 times vote of this man for partial-birth-abortion), rejection of talks with the Prime Minister of Israel several times, crippling & destruction of the economy of the US and worldwide, destruction of the moral and biblical foundations of America (cancelling the day of prayer while celebrating Ramadan in the white house..., & the other time of the year B.Hussein Obama wearing a ring with "Allah u akhbar" (the moon-God Allah is greater... than who? (greater than Jesus & His father??) being engraved) & denouncing in his Homeland-Security-Papers people, who made the US great as terrorists (bible-believing Christians, 2nd amendment-groups & Veterans(!)) & then insulting candidate Romney, calling him a a "bullshitter" etc.; oh Bummer, this shameful policy has got 2 stop...

You've posted this in nine different threads, word for word. Now fuck off and read the rules re spamming!

 

[LibertyLemming]

A good read:

'Cuba's Healthcare, a Model for the U.S.' Says CNN

by Humberto Fontova
by Humberto Fontova
Recently by Humberto Fontova: Hollywood Movie and Bestselling Book Parrot Castroite*Propaganda



Good thing for us that Rich Noyes of The Media Research Center keeps an eye on CNN. Good thing for CNN too. Given the latest Nielsen ratings (that finds them 17th during prime time) Ted "Fidel Castro is one helluva guy!" Turner's brainchild should be grateful for any and all viewers, whatever their motivation.

Last week, according to Noyes expose', "CNN aired a piece of Communist Party propaganda about how Cuba could serve as 'a model for health care reform in the United States'."

The CNN report included clips from Michael Moore's Sicko as CNN's Morgan Neill, on location in a Potemkin Havana hospital, gushed about Cuban healthcare's "impressive statistics." "Cuba's infant mortality rates" he reported, "are the lowest in the hemisphere, in line with those of Canada!"

"Amazing!" probably gasped the type of person who watches CNN nowadays (Noyes gets a pass here). Perfect proof of "yes we can!" they probably high-fived. No wonder Colin Powell said "Castro had done some good things for his people!" No wonder Michael Moore catches so much grief from those insufferable Miami Cubans! Before Castro only they could afford doctors, as Cuba's huddled masses languished in sickness and poverty!

And indeed, according to UN figures, Cuba's current infant mortality rate places her 44th from the top in worldwide ranking, right next to Canada (the lower the rate the higher the ranking).

What CNN left out is that according to those same UN figures, in 1958 (the year prior to the glorious revolution), Cuba ranked 13th from the top, worldwide. This meant that robustly capitalist Cuba had the 13th LOWEST infant-mortality rate in the world. This put her not only at the top in Latin America but atop most of Western Europe, ahead of France, Belgium, West Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal. Today all of these countries leave Communist Cuba in the dust, with much lower infant mortality rates.

And even plummeting from 13th (Capitalist) to 44th (Communist), Cuba's "impressive" infant mortality rate is kept artificially low by Communist chicanery with statistics and by a truly appalling abortion rate of 0.71 abortions per live birth. This is the hemisphere's highest, by far. Any Cuban pregnancy that even hints at trouble gets "terminated."


Also noteworthy: according to the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, the mortality rate of Cuban children aged one to four years is 34% higher than the US (11.8 versus 8.8 per 1,000). But these don't figure into UN and World Health Organization spotlighted "infant-mortality rates," you see. So the pressure is not on Cuban doctors to fudge these figures — yet.

In April 2001, Dr. Juan Felipe García, MD, of Jacksonville, Fla., interviewed several recent doctor defectors from Cuba. Based on what he heard, he reported the following: "The official Cuban infant-mortality figure is a farce. Cuban pediatricians constantly falsify figures for the regime. If an infant dies during its first year, the doctors often report he was older. Otherwise, such lapses could cost him severe penalties and his job."

More interesting (and tragic) still, the maternal mortality rate in Cuba is almost four times that of the US rate (33 versus 8.4 per 1,000). Peculiar how so many mothers die during childbirth in Cuba, and how many one- to four-year-olds perish, — while from birth to one year old (the period during which they qualify in UN statistics as infants) they're perfectly healthy!

This might lead a few people to question Cuba's official infant-mortality figures. But such people would not get a Havana bureau for their news agency, much less a visa to film a documentary.

Ninety-nine percent of Cubans have no more experience with hospitals like the one Michael Moore featured in Sicko and CNN's Morgan Neill visited than Moore has with a Soloflex. Most Cubans view these hospitals the way teenage boys used to view Playboy magazine and husbands view a Victoria's Secret catalog: "Wow! If only. . ."

The Castroite propaganda in Sicko so outraged people cursed by fate to live in Castro's fiefdom that they risked their lives by using hidden cameras to film conditions in genuine Cuban hospitals, hoping they could alert the world to Moore's swinishness as a propaganda operative for a Stalinist regime.


At enormous risk, two hours of shocking — often revolting — footage was obtained with tiny hidden cameras and smuggled out of Cuba to Cuban-exile, George Utset who runs the superb and revelatory website The Real Cuba. The man who assumed most of the risk during the filming and smuggling was Cuban dissident — a medical doctor himself — Dr. Darsi Ferrer, who was also willing to talk on camera, narrating much of the video's revelations. Dr. Ferrer works in these genuinely Cuban hospitals daily, witnessing the truth. More importantly, he wasn't cowed from revealing this truth to America and the world.

Originally, ABC's John Stossel planned to show the shocking videos in their entirety, during a 20/20 show. Alas, on Sept. 12th 2007, the 20/20 show ran only a tiny segment on Cuba's "real" healthcare, barely 5 minutes long and with almost none of the smuggled video footage. What happened?

Well, the Castro regime got wind of these videos and called in ABC's Havana bureau for a little talking-to, stressing that ABC's "bureau permit" might face "closer scrutiny" if they showed the blockbuster videos.

ABC (and yes, Stossel, whom we all otherwise admire) wimped out.

Enter Fox News, and Sean Hannity in particular. Your humble servant here contacted Hannity's producers regarding the smuggled videos and they immediately requested a look. Within hours they jumped on them and produced a blockbuster of a show. Seen here. And here. Fox viewers saw naked patients covered with flies while lying on "hospital beds" consisting of a bare mattress. They saw buildings that would be condemned by the health board of any US municipality serving as "hospitals." They saw and heard Dr. Darsi Ferrer along with other Cubans who described their inability to obtain something so basic as aspirins.

"Greed," was the motif of Michael Moore's Sicko, right? "Greed" is what Obama's plan will abolish, right?

Well, Fox viewers saw footage of Cubans being told (by regime apparatchiks) that aspirins and other medicines just might be available to them — but only if they paid in US dollars, not the Cuban pesos they held out in desperation.

 

[EriktheRed]

Yep. The people who wrote them are fallible. Nevertheless, the Constitution is the law of the land. The fact that it isn't perfect doesn't mean the government is free to ignore it.

But apparently you have a problem accepting dictionary definitions.

So your theory is that if the Constitution has a single flaw in it, then the government is free to ignore it? Is that really what you're trying to tell everyone in this forum who isn't suffering from brain damage?

No, I'm mainly just fucking with you because you're such an arrogant and ignorant rightwingnut.


I mean really, how the fuck can anyone have any kind meaningful discourse with a dickwad who just dismisses agreed-upon definitions of words? Might as well just laugh at that point.

You're really more a nihilist than anything, when you get right down to it.

 

[bripat9643]

But apparently you have a problem accepting dictionary definitions.

So your theory is that if the Constitution has a single flaw in it, then the government is free to ignore it? Is that really what you're trying to tell everyone in this forum who isn't suffering from brain damage?

No, I'm mainly just fucking with you because you're such an arrogant and ignorant rightwingnut.


I mean really, how the fuck can anyone have any kind meaningful discourse with a dickwad who just dismisses agreed-upon definitions of words? Might as well just laugh at that point.

You're really more a nihilist than anything, when you get right down to it.

I disagree with them because they're often wrong. Only a boot licking servile toady believes the Dictionary definition is always right. Furthermore, I never said the dictionary definition of socialism is wrong.

 

[tooAlive]

The happiest place on earth is socialist....

For the past decade, social scientists and pollsters have given elaborate questionnaires to hundreds of thousands of people around the globe. Two of the largest studies that rank the happiness of countries around the world are the World Map of Happiness from the University of Leiscester and the World Database of Happiness from Ruut Veenhoven of Erasmus University Rotterdam. All the happiness surveys ask people basically the same question: How happy are you?

"The answer you get is not only how they feel right now, but also how they feel about their entire life," explained Dan Buettner, who has studied happiness and longevity around the world through his Blue Zones project Buettner said that if you mine all the databases of universities and research centers, you'll find that the happiest place on earth is ? Denmark. Cold, dreary, unspectacular Denmark.

Could the Danes really be the happiest people in the world? When ABC News anchor Bill Weir traveled there to find out, he asked random Danes to rate themselves in terms of happiness, on a scale of one to 10. Many people rated themselves at least an eight, and there were several nines and 10s. Finally, one grouchy Dane came along who said she didn't believe Danes were so happy. But then she quickly conceded that she herself felt rather content with her life, and said Danes in general had very little to complain about.
Danes do have one potential complaint: high taxes. The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. With just 5.5 million people, the system is efficient, and people feel "tryghed" -- the Danish word for "tucked in" -- like a snug child.
Those high taxes have another effect. Since a banker can end up taking home as much money as an artist, people don't chose careers based on income or status. "They have this thing called 'Jante-lov,' which essentially says, 'You're no better then anybody else,'" said Buettner. "A garbage man can live in a middle-class neighborhood and hold his head high."

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

You can't ask a bird how it feels like to be free, when he's had his wings cut his entire life and doesn't know what it's like to fly. Ignorance can sometimes be mistaken for happiness.

If we had been socialists, the world would still still be reading by a candle at night and we'd still be taking trains and horses to get around.

Our nation experienced the greatest growth spurt the world has ever seen during a period of pure capitalism. Back in the time of Vanderbilt, Morgan, Edison, Tesla, Westinghouse, Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Ford.

I know you're itching to prove socialism works, but it doesn't.

 

[tooAlive]

A good read:

'Cuba's Healthcare, a Model for the U.S.' Says CNN

by Humberto Fontova
by Humberto Fontova
Recently by Humberto Fontova: Hollywood Movie and Bestselling Book Parrot Castroite*Propaganda



Good thing for us that Rich Noyes of The Media Research Center keeps an eye on CNN. Good thing for CNN too. Given the latest Nielsen ratings (that finds them 17th during prime time) Ted "Fidel Castro is one helluva guy!" Turner's brainchild should be grateful for any and all viewers, whatever their motivation.

Last week, according to Noyes expose', "CNN aired a piece of Communist Party propaganda about how Cuba could serve as 'a model for health care reform in the United States'."

The CNN report included clips from Michael Moore's Sicko as CNN's Morgan Neill, on location in a Potemkin Havana hospital, gushed about Cuban healthcare's "impressive statistics." "Cuba's infant mortality rates" he reported, "are the lowest in the hemisphere, in line with those of Canada!"

"Amazing!" probably gasped the type of person who watches CNN nowadays (Noyes gets a pass here). Perfect proof of "yes we can!" they probably high-fived. No wonder Colin Powell said "Castro had done some good things for his people!" No wonder Michael Moore catches so much grief from those insufferable Miami Cubans! Before Castro only they could afford doctors, as Cuba's huddled masses languished in sickness and poverty!

And indeed, according to UN figures, Cuba's current infant mortality rate places her 44th from the top in worldwide ranking, right next to Canada (the lower the rate the higher the ranking).

What CNN left out is that according to those same UN figures, in 1958 (the year prior to the glorious revolution), Cuba ranked 13th from the top, worldwide. This meant that robustly capitalist Cuba had the 13th LOWEST infant-mortality rate in the world. This put her not only at the top in Latin America but atop most of Western Europe, ahead of France, Belgium, West Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal. Today all of these countries leave Communist Cuba in the dust, with much lower infant mortality rates.

And even plummeting from 13th (Capitalist) to 44th (Communist), Cuba's "impressive" infant mortality rate is kept artificially low by Communist chicanery with statistics and by a truly appalling abortion rate of 0.71 abortions per live birth. This is the hemisphere's highest, by far. Any Cuban pregnancy that even hints at trouble gets "terminated."


Also noteworthy: according to the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, the mortality rate of Cuban children aged one to four years is 34% higher than the US (11.8 versus 8.8 per 1,000). But these don't figure into UN and World Health Organization spotlighted "infant-mortality rates," you see. So the pressure is not on Cuban doctors to fudge these figures — yet.

In April 2001, Dr. Juan Felipe García, MD, of Jacksonville, Fla., interviewed several recent doctor defectors from Cuba. Based on what he heard, he reported the following: "The official Cuban infant-mortality figure is a farce. Cuban pediatricians constantly falsify figures for the regime. If an infant dies during its first year, the doctors often report he was older. Otherwise, such lapses could cost him severe penalties and his job."

More interesting (and tragic) still, the maternal mortality rate in Cuba is almost four times that of the US rate (33 versus 8.4 per 1,000). Peculiar how so many mothers die during childbirth in Cuba, and how many one- to four-year-olds perish, — while from birth to one year old (the period during which they qualify in UN statistics as infants) they're perfectly healthy!

This might lead a few people to question Cuba's official infant-mortality figures. But such people would not get a Havana bureau for their news agency, much less a visa to film a documentary.

Ninety-nine percent of Cubans have no more experience with hospitals like the one Michael Moore featured in Sicko and CNN's Morgan Neill visited than Moore has with a Soloflex. Most Cubans view these hospitals the way teenage boys used to view Playboy magazine and husbands view a Victoria's Secret catalog: "Wow! If only. . ."

The Castroite propaganda in Sicko so outraged people cursed by fate to live in Castro's fiefdom that they risked their lives by using hidden cameras to film conditions in genuine Cuban hospitals, hoping they could alert the world to Moore's swinishness as a propaganda operative for a Stalinist regime.


At enormous risk, two hours of shocking — often revolting — footage was obtained with tiny hidden cameras and smuggled out of Cuba to Cuban-exile, George Utset who runs the superb and revelatory website The Real Cuba. The man who assumed most of the risk during the filming and smuggling was Cuban dissident — a medical doctor himself — Dr. Darsi Ferrer, who was also willing to talk on camera, narrating much of the video's revelations. Dr. Ferrer works in these genuinely Cuban hospitals daily, witnessing the truth. More importantly, he wasn't cowed from revealing this truth to America and the world.

Originally, ABC's John Stossel planned to show the shocking videos in their entirety, during a 20/20 show. Alas, on Sept. 12th 2007, the 20/20 show ran only a tiny segment on Cuba's "real" healthcare, barely 5 minutes long and with almost none of the smuggled video footage. What happened?

Well, the Castro regime got wind of these videos and called in ABC's Havana bureau for a little talking-to, stressing that ABC's "bureau permit" might face "closer scrutiny" if they showed the blockbuster videos.

ABC (and yes, Stossel, whom we all otherwise admire) wimped out.

Enter Fox News, and Sean Hannity in particular. Your humble servant here contacted Hannity's producers regarding the smuggled videos and they immediately requested a look. Within hours they jumped on them and produced a blockbuster of a show. Seen here. And here. Fox viewers saw naked patients covered with flies while lying on "hospital beds" consisting of a bare mattress. They saw buildings that would be condemned by the health board of any US municipality serving as "hospitals." They saw and heard Dr. Darsi Ferrer along with other Cubans who described their inability to obtain something so basic as aspirins.

"Greed," was the motif of Michael Moore's Sicko, right? "Greed" is what Obama's plan will abolish, right?

Well, Fox viewers saw footage of Cubans being told (by regime apparatchiks) that aspirins and other medicines just might be available to them — but only if they paid in US dollars, not the Cuban pesos they held out in desperation.

It is indeed my friend, great share.

Also, there's a site mentioned there:

Hospital Clnico Quirrgico

I'd just like to advise everyone that's looking at those pictures, they're actually quite old. I just got back from Cuba 6 months ago, and visited a hospital with my grandfather while I was there.

The actual conditions were horrific. If you think those pics were bad, you have no idea.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Outright fabrication.

Did you know Cuba's healthcare ratings plummeted after the Glorious Revoultion?

Did you know we train many of our doctors there?

You sound very un-informed.

I just got back from Cuba six months ago, and actually had the pleasure of visiting one of Cuba's better hospitals. I even got to take a small tour around where the patients stay.

Let me tell you, the word horrific does not even begin to describe what goes on inside that place. I had the opportunity to go because my grandfather actually lives there and was scheduled to go visit a doctor. What an unforgettable experience it was.

It saddens me when I hear people such as yourself mindlessly praise a system when you have absolutely no idea what the unfortunate reality really is.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, you are an immature neo-eighth grader who cannot accept that he is not accepted here as anything more than a joke.

Tis what tis, bripat.

So your theory is that if the Constitution has a single flaw in it, then the government is free to ignore it? Is that really what you're trying to tell everyone in this forum who isn't suffering from brain damage?

No, I'm mainly just fucking with you because you're such an arrogant and ignorant rightwingnut.


I mean really, how the fuck can anyone have any kind meaningful discourse with a dickwad who just dismisses agreed-upon definitions of words? Might as well just laugh at that point.

You're really more a nihilist than anything, when you get right down to it.

I disagree with them because they're often wrong. Only a boot licking servile toady believes the Dictionary definition is always right. Furthermore, I never said the dictionary definition of socialism is wrong.

 

[tooAlive]

Outright fabrication.

Did you know we train many of our doctors there?

You sound very un-informed.

I just got back from Cuba six months ago, and actually had the pleasure of visiting one of Cuba's better hospitals. I even got to take a small tour around where the patients stay.

Let me tell you, the word horrific does not even begin to describe what goes on inside that place. I had the opportunity to go because my grandfather actually lives there and was scheduled to go visit a doctor. What an unforgettable experience it was.

It saddens me when I hear people such as yourself mindlessly praise a system when you have absolutely no idea what the unfortunate reality really is.

I'd happily show you pictures from my trip.

But unfortunately, they didn't allow me to take pictures inside the hospital. I did however find this site that has some pictures of a Cuban hospital.

Although I can honestly say they're nothing compared to what I saw during my trip.

Hospital Clnico Quirrgico

 

[regent]

Amazing, think of all the times the word socialism has been placed on these boards and no one seemed to care or even ask what the word meant. Good thing we are not in academic environment and had to use correct definitions, the boards would disappear. I guess this is real academic freedom, just make things up.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I love when cons claim the country is theirs all the while preaching liberty and the first amendment.
Gives me goose bumps...

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Real Cuba website is that of the emigre Batista outcasts.

Communism is no walk in the park today in Cuba as capitalism was a torture for the peasants and the poorer working classes seventy years ago.

When you can post the real story, please do, but one-sided hackery is unnecessary.

Outright fabrication.

You sound very un-informed.

I just got back from Cuba six months ago, and actually had the pleasure of visiting one of Cuba's better hospitals. I even got to take a small tour around where the patients stay.

Let me tell you, the word horrific does not even begin to describe what goes on inside that place. I had the opportunity to go because my grandfather actually lives there and was scheduled to go visit a doctor. What an unforgettable experience it was.

It saddens me when I hear people such as yourself mindlessly praise a system when you have absolutely no idea what the unfortunate reality really is.

I'd happily show you pictures from my trip.

But unfortunately, they didn't allow me to take pictures inside the hospital. I did however find this site that has some pictures of a Cuban hospital.

Although I can honestly say they're nothing compared to what I saw during my trip.

Hospital Clnico Quirrgico

 

[kiwiman127]

So how does Cuba not fit that definition?

I was addressing the thread and making it clear to some of our posters to what exactly real socialism is, which varies greatly to what some posters think it is.

"Real socialism" is what Obama and every other Democrat believes in.

I see. Your version of socialsim is the true meaning of socialism, all distionaries and yes, encyclopedias have it wrong!!!!!!

"Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members."
socialism -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

I guess encyclopedias are in on the conspiracy too! Bripat, you have get a hold of the non-MSM press and alert them of this and do it right away!