Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[saveliberty]

Sales tax is an interesting example of government gone wrong. I probably make a $500 profit on a new car or truck. My commission: $150.

That vehicle might sell for $30,000. At 6% sales tax, the state makes $1,800. I'd love to see the justification(s) from the left on that.

 

[8537]

The police don't track down people that aren't reported by the businessowner.

Of course they do! Any time there is a break in and police learn of it, they attempt to enforce the law by apprehending the suspect.

They also can't prosecute in most cases without a complaint from the businessowner. Citizens can also arrest people. See your generalized statement has a few flaws.

No, it doesn't. You attempted to deny that the government enforces property rights -a claim that is, on its face, wholly inaccurate and wrong. In fact, the most basic function of government is to enforce and protect intellectual and physical property rights.

 

[Sallow]

I've seen several posts bemoaning what Obama said about businesses.

I just haven't seen where he was, specifically, talking about government.

He merely said they didn't get there on their own.
They didn't.
Without a demand and a customer base there wouldn't have been a reason to start their business.

I've been wrong before.....ask my wife.
But I just don;t see where he was giving government the credit.

It's more then that.

It's security, it's infrastructure, it's R&D, it's a judicial system and a whole lot more.

People also seem to forget, these aren't separate, mystical, magical ideas..they are interdependent human constructs.

But at the root of all this is the justification for unbridled greed.

Which, like fire..if left uncontrolled will burn you in the end.

 

[Sallow]

For all you small government types.

There are actual countries around the world with small limited governments.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi_wZMYY_PM]Irtokte Gun market in Mogadishu, Somalia - YouTube[/ame]

Somalia Travel Guide - VirtualTourist

That's one.

 

[there4eyeM]

"...the police are government employees..."

Privatizing this would not be desirable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why Obama is RIGHT when he says business needs the government

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/228521-what-good-is-government.html

What Obama doesn't realize is that government needs business far more that business needs government. Commerce has existed in the world whether government is present or not.

The drug war proves exactly how much business needs the government. Before the drug war cocaine was hard to get and expensive, only rich people used it. After decades of the government spending billions of dollars trying to wipe it out it is easier to find and less expensive, and is used by people on welfare.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would love to see the business climate if government didn't enforce physical or intellectual property rights.

Rightwing nirvana!

Strangely enough, Google has made billions by making as much as possible freely available to everyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would love to see the business climate if government didn't enforce physical or intellectual property rights.

Rightwing nirvana!

The government doesn't enforce those rights. They determine who has them and what damages are due through litigation brought by businesspersons.

So when someone breaks into a store and steals physical property, the people you call to reclaim your merchandise and catch the thief, the ones carrying guns and tasers, aren't government employees?

I'm not sure which country you live in, but here in the United States the police are government employees funded by tax dollars. YRMV.

The fact that the government has a near monopoly on crime does not prove that they government is the only, or even the best, response to crime.

 

[Sallow]

History is full of examples of the government taking on projects that are huge because they believe they wouldn't happen otherwise. History is also full of examples of projects that businesses took on because they were needed. My favorite example of the latter is one of Obama's talking points when he claims that the government is indispensable.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge...

Turns out that the government actually did everything it could to stop the Golden Gate bridge, and that, ultimately, it was built because of one man.

A second problem in 1929 when the US Stock Market collapsed made for more problems. The Golden Gate committee now has trouble issuing the bond needed for the construction of the bridge, even though the citizens of the surrounding area had put up their own personal lands and farms as collateral. It takes 3 more years and the wealthy President and founder of Bank of America, A.P. Giannini, to personally buy the 35 million dollar bond which he then finances through the bank. Without the bank and the intervention of private industry fueled by personal wealth, again the bridge would not have been built. By 1937 the bridge is completed—and Strauss delivers the bridge 1.7 million UNDER budget, using local non-union labor and private contractors.

www.thomas-purcell.com: Obama's Golden Gate Sized Error

Want to know what else got built without the government?

Truth to tell I'll bet business would be happy if Govt was gone, gone and gone.

Ask anyone who's trying to start up a business or run one. I'm sure Govt is nothing but a big fat pain in the ass for them.

Plenty of little Islands to buy if you want.

And no government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The police don't track down people that aren't reported by the businessowner.

Of course they do! Any time there is a break in and police learn of it, they attempt to enforce the law by apprehending the suspect.

They also can't prosecute in most cases without a complaint from the businessowner. Citizens can also arrest people. See your generalized statement has a few flaws.

No, it doesn't. You attempted to deny that the government enforces property rights -a claim that is, on its face, wholly inaccurate and wrong. In fact, the most basic function of government is to enforce and protect intellectual and physical property rights.

You are either incredibly naive or really stupid.

 

[Sallow]

I would love to see the business climate if government didn't enforce physical or intellectual property rights.

Rightwing nirvana!

Strangely enough, Google has made billions by making as much as possible freely available to everyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For all you small government types.

There are actual countries around the world with small limited governments.

Irtokte Gun market in Mogadishu, Somalia - YouTube

Somalia Travel Guide - VirtualTourist

That's one.

There is nothing limited about the government in Somalia.

 

[saveliberty]

The police don't track down people that aren't reported by the businessowner.

Of course they do! Any time there is a break in and police learn of it, they attempt to enforce the law by apprehending the suspect.

They also can't prosecute in most cases without a complaint from the businessowner. Citizens can also arrest people. See your generalized statement has a few flaws.

No, it doesn't. You attempted to deny that the government enforces property rights -a claim that is, on its face, wholly inaccurate and wrong. In fact, the most basic function of government is to enforce and protect intellectual and physical property rights.

Exactly, not all crimes are reported. Also, the courts enforce the law, police make arrests and detain people. A plaintiff requests the laws be enforced.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

History is full of examples of the government taking on projects that are huge because they believe they wouldn't happen otherwise. History is also full of examples of projects that businesses took on because they were needed.
...

Individual businesses may not need the government but industries always have.

fact


dD

 

[Moonglow]

The MAIN reason Obama is wrong...........

What he fails to realize is that the "government" IS the people. The "government" could not build those roads without the TAXES those small business owners and millions of others paid to the "government."

We would not have a DOD who would "create" computers and the internet without the TAXES paid by those same taxpayers to create a military to defend this country.

Obama would not receive a paycheck without those TAXES being paid by those same taxpayers.

Perhaps Obama should be thanking the American people for HIS success rather than claiming those small business owners aren't paying their "fair share."

The man is not wrapped too tight and that's unsettling.

How many highways were built with business funds only?

 

[Jackson]

History is full of examples of the government taking on projects that are huge because they believe they wouldn't happen otherwise. History is also full of examples of projects that businesses took on because they were needed. My favorite example of the latter is one of Obama's talking points when he claims that the government is indispensable.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge...

Turns out that the government actually did everything it could to stop the Golden Gate bridge, and that, ultimately, it was built because of one man.

In fact, it was the ‘One Percenters’, as is the term coined of the rich and powerful these days, that built the Golden Gate, not government. More importantly, it was government that posed more obstacles for the building of the bridge than any other entity and if the Department of Defense had their way it never would have been built at all.

Some basic research into the building of the bridge indicated that the original architect of the bridge, Joseph Strauss (who also designed a bridge to be built over the Bering Strait) faced numerous obstacles from government after his original proposal to them in 1921. Several years earlier the government had done a study about building a bridge in those waters and had come to the conclusion that it was impossible to build a bridge from the city to Marin County. San Francisco City Engineer Michael O'Shaughnessy had requested the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey to make soundings of the channel bottom. The U.S.S. Natoma completed the sounding of the channel in May 1920, and after receiving the Natoma's survey data, O'Shaughnessy consults engineers from around the country about feasibility and cost. Many say it cannot be done, and if it can be the cost would exceed $100 million. The idea was then shelved until Strauss comes forward with his design.

A second problem in 1929 when the US Stock Market collapsed made for more problems. The Golden Gate committee now has trouble issuing the bond needed for the construction of the bridge, even though the citizens of the surrounding area had put up their own personal lands and farms as collateral. It takes 3 more years and the wealthy President and founder of Bank of America, A.P. Giannini, to personally buy the 35 million dollar bond which he then finances through the bank. Without the bank and the intervention of private industry fueled by personal wealth, again the bridge would not have been built. By 1937 the bridge is completed—and Strauss delivers the bridge 1.7 million UNDER budget, using local non-union labor and private contractors.

www.thomas-purcell.com: Obama's Golden Gate Sized Error

Want to know what else got built without the government?

I'm interested, what else?

 

[uscitizen]

Government gives hundreds of billions to businesses each year, either directly for military hardware, services or goods or indirectly thru govt assistance payments, SS, Medicare/aid, etc.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Quasi-dope gets it wrong yet again.

History is full of examples of ...

History is full of examples of people like Quasi-doe-doe misrepresenting things or being gullible enough to put forth myth, lie, deceit as fact. Take this thread OP for an example. A thread linked to a post on a -- gulp -- goofy blog, which itself is a ripoff of a -- you guessed it , FOX News liability...

here is what the President really said:


OBAMA: [L]ook, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That's how we funded the GI Bill. That's how we created the middle class. That's how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That's how we invented the Internet. That's how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that's the reason I'm running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You're not on your own, we're in this together.

the above disservice brought to you by FOX and Friends: Fox & Friends Deceptively Edits Obama's Comments On Small Business

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

History is full of examples of...

I'm interested, what else?

Interested in Fox & Friends Deceptively Edits Obama's Comments On Small Business

Quasi-dopey's link: Ga, ga, doo, doo, do... ... it's a stupid blog post that took the bait.

 

[Listening]

The MAIN reason Obama is wrong...........

He's breathing ?