Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[Ame®icano]

You're still not understanding the example

I never said the flat tax rate would be 15%

The current cap gains tax is 15% the example was how a rich guy with nothing but investment income would pay more tax if he was charged 12% on his entire income than he does now where 15% is charged on only a portion of his income

I don't know how much simpler I can make it for you

Crayons perhaps?

 

[Ame®icano]

Please explain in your own words what is not 'fair' about a flat tax rate?

I would like to know that too.

 

[Votto]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Marx strove to have a progressive tax dolt

 

[NYcarbineer]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

Marx strove to have a progressive tax dolt

So? He also believed in public schools.

 

[Ame®icano]

So? He also believed in public schools.

And that too is a Marxism.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So? He also believed in public schools.

And that too is a Marxism.

Great. So you believe that anyone who doesn't want to abolish the public school system is a Marxist.

Interesting. I guess that means Marx won...

...because practically every place on earth supports having public schools.

Marx has accomplished word domination!!!!!!!!!!

lol, retard.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

So no tries on the above?

Fair enough. So far so good. So far I've proven that the flat taxers want to increase the gap between rich and poor.

 

[Davros]

A flat tax is a simple idea for simple people. The only reason idiots favor it is for one of two reasons

1) They are rich and stand to benefit greatly

2) They are a simple minded person and only endorse things they can easily understand. (See this thread as proof). These are the same people who hated Obamacare because it was "too much to read".

Yes because we all know that laws with millions of words are easier to implement and cost the government less to do so just like the most complicated doodads and gadgets are the best and least expensive way to do simple things as well

No one ever implied that, but simpler doesn't equal better which is a major selling point of you flat tax morons.

What could possibly be an improvement over simplifying the tax code and then having one rate which everyone pays?....
"Fairness"? Please.
I cannot fathom anything more "fair" than everyone having at least some skin in the game.
15% ( for example) of $20k is $3,000.....15% of $100,000 per year is $15k.....Meaning the person earning 5 times as much pays 5 times as much....What part of that is so difficult to understand?

Taking 3,000 more out of the 20,000 family's pocket means them choosing between food and having a roof over their head or medical and dental care or adequate clothing.

Letting the 100,000 family keep some 15,000 more means they get to trade in their 2014 jeep for a 2015 jeep and take an extra 2 week cruise.

That's NOT fair.

 

[Davros]

The poor already have skin in the game. They live hard lives, working long and hard just to survive.

The Middle Class and wealthy get the luxury of working towards a career they enjoy doing, building wealth for retirement and as a hand up and safety net for their children. They enjoy luxuries like going to a game, a movie, buying expensive toys for their children, vacations to great places.

It is always pathetic when rich and wanna be rich rubes like those on this forum envy the poor and whine about the poor not having any "skin in the game" while advocating doing away with the programs that keep the poor from being like the poor of the good old days who usually died young and half starved or fully starved.

FDR saved this nation. If not for that evil progressive, the US as we know it today would not exist.

 

[Timmy]

Let me ask. What's so bad about the current system ?

 

[Davros]

Let me ask. What's so bad about the current system ?

They think the rich are suffering in this nation. Especially Nuevo rich yuppies who make 300,000 a year to boss people around about boring ass bullshit regarding clients and investments and dividends. See, these rubes are gonna be upper middle class some day, and when they are goddamnit, they'VE earned a million dollar house in some exclusive boring ass suburb with a manicured lawn and a pool, and a home theater for video games and mega tv watching, and the season tickets for some boring ass sports team, and plastic surgery and other cosmetics and personal trainers and fancy suvs to make them look like movie stars in their mind. And so, they don't want to have to pay more than the 12% they're paying now, because they'll be able to acquire more of the boring ass stuff described above faster. And so their friends will look up to them because they have a bunch of stuff, and that's what makes people matter in America. Having stuff.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes because we all know that laws with millions of words are easier to implement and cost the government less to do so just like the most complicated doodads and gadgets are the best and least expensive way to do simple things as well

No one ever implied that, but simpler doesn't equal better which is a major selling point of you flat tax morons.

The major selling point is that it is fair.

Even though a dollar is worth a dollar, Dollars earned don't hold the same value all along the earning scale.

Look at it like this, imagine you're homeless and someone gives you a dollar. What is the first thing you do with that dollar? Buy food, maybe medicine, shelter or clothing. The basic life essentials. This is where mostly anyone would put their very first dollars towards. It's why you don't see homeless people saying "Will work for yachts". Those are items purchased with dollars further down the need scale. The first dollars anyone earns will be spent on basic life necessities.

This is why a progressive system that taxes these first dollars less and more heavily as the dollar has less value to basic life needs makes sense and doesn't put the poorest among us at a disadvantage. Is it perfect? No, but it's better than a mindless flat tax system that isn't fair to anyone but the richest among us.

Ok then why don't you answer the question in the OP

Why not make say the sales tax progressive as well after all that 3rd flat screen isn't worth as much to you as the first right? Why not make property taxes progressive and charge more for square footage you don't really need that is therefore worth less to you?

An earned dollar or any dollar of any type of income is nothing but a commodity like any other if we are going to have an income tax then we should tax income all income not some income not some dollars more than others

We do not do that for any other taxes levied on anything else

It's not the government's job to decide what people need

Why make one person pay 1000 dollars a year for federal government while some other pays 100,000 for the same government?

What makes that fair?

You are not taxing the person you are taxing the dollars of income
Everyone pays the same percentage on every dollar of income

The fact that one has more income than another is neither fair nor unfair

 

[Skull Pilot]

The major selling point is that it is fair.

But it's not though.

Of course it is it's the very definition of fair

I just outlined why it's not fair.

And I disagree

With what exactly? That's really your only response?

I disagree that taxing some dollars at 40% and others at 0% is unfair

We don't tax the gallon of gas used to drive to the supermarket more than the gallon of gas used to drive to a strip club do we even though the gallon of gas used for the drive to the titty bar isn't "needed" as much

It doesn't matter what the dollar of income is used for if we are going to have an income tax then the dollar of income is no different than the gallon of gas

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

Let me say it again

It doesn't fucking matter who pays more or less all that matters is the fairness of the tax

You don't give a shit if a so called poor person pays the same exact federal tax on his cell phone as a "rich guy" do you? Should he pay less?

Why on earth should he pay less on a dollar of income?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

So no tries on the above?

Fair enough. So far so good. So far I've proven that the flat taxers want to increase the gap between rich and poor.

Just because some of us are offline when you post your crap doesn't mean you have proven anything

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let me ask. What's so bad about the current system ?

If you haven't figured that out yet then I can't help you

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let me ask. What's so bad about the current system ?

They think the rich are suffering in this nation. Especially Nuevo rich yuppies who make 300,000 a year to boss people around about boring ass bullshit regarding clients and investments and dividends. See, these rubes are gonna be upper middle class some day, and when they are goddamnit, they'VE earned a million dollar house in some exclusive boring ass suburb with a manicured lawn and a pool, and a home theater for video games and mega tv watching, and the season tickets for some boring ass sports team, and plastic surgery and other cosmetics and personal trainers and fancy suvs to make them look like movie stars in their mind. And so, they don't want to have to pay more than the 12% they're paying now, because they'll be able to acquire more of the boring ass stuff described above faster. And so their friends will look up to them because they have a bunch of stuff, and that's what makes people matter in America. Having stuff.

The envy just oozes from your pores doesn't it?

 

[Ravi]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

Let me say it again

It doesn't fucking matter who pays more or less all that matters is the fairness of the tax

You don't give a shit if a so called poor person pays the same exact federal tax on his cell phone as a "rich guy" do you? Should he pay less?

Why on earth should he pay less on a dollar of income?

A poor person earning 10000 pays the same income tax rate as a rich person earning 10000.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look at this chart of effective tax rates based on income quintiles.

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Federal income tax is the second chart down.

Now, anyone explain to me how you get from those rates, to flat tax rate across the board,

without raising taxes on the poorer and lowering taxes for the richer.

Let me say it again

It doesn't fucking matter who pays more or less all that matters is the fairness of the tax

You don't give a shit if a so called poor person pays the same exact federal tax on his cell phone as a "rich guy" do you? Should he pay less?

Why on earth should he pay less on a dollar of income?

A poor person earning 10000 pays the same income tax rate as a rich person earning 10000.

rich people don't only earn 10K

And if that 10K came from cap gains no he doesn't pay the same rate as the one who made 10k from a job be pays more