Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

[rightwinger]

Baloney. Good government has always FOLLOWED commerce and industry, not the other way around. You start out with a few farms or ranches and eventually somebody sees the market and puts in a small local grocery or hardware or farm implement store so folks don't have to drive so far for a few nails or a loaf of bread. And then another store moves in to offer blacksmith or repair services. Another will fix shoes or dry clean clothes or offer plumbing and electrical services. Eventually it makes sense to hire a law enforcement person to help protect the various properties from the very occasional thief or vandal. Then the people band together to form a volunteer fire department to lower everybody's fire insurance premiums. And to protect the ground water, they elect to have s shared water system and eventually a sewer system. And eventually it makes sense to incorporate the village and hire somebody to oversee and regulate all the shared services. Sooner or later roads will be paved and extended and linked to larger transportation routes and other amenities will be added, all authorized by bonds voted by the citizens.

But the roads, the infrastructure, the shared services are all determined to be necessary by the people who will be payng for them and it all is created because the need already exists. The Founders did not build a post road to nowhere on the theory somebody might need that at some time. They built them to serve the people where they already were.

That is what 'promote the general welfare' meant to the Founding Fathers whether at the local, country, state, or federal level--government services that meet an existing need and cannot be accomplished as efficiently and effectively by the private sector. Otherwise it is the duty of government to free up the private sector to thrive and flourish as it chooses to do.

Played SimCity have ya?

The United States of America is the largest municipal corporation in the world. Trying to run that corporation with a business plan 200+ years old is STUPID.

Here's some reality for ya.

EVERY sale that a business makes is helped either directly or indirectly by the government. The customer needs to get to the store. The store needs to get to the customer. The government made that happen!

Have you ever heard of the Amish?

The Amish are on the internet

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Why?

That wasn't original intent.

Original intent was to have small state run militias.

So why isn't that the case now?

Congress SHALL have the power "To declare war". That's kind of hard to do if you don't have a military force available, wouldn't you say? Then the Constitution specifically instructs Congress

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress."

Then there is the Presidential oath "to uphold, preserve, and DEFEND the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic. Now with respect to the "original" intent, I can assure you that does not include the views of THIS administration, which is to read the Miranda rights and lawyer up terrorists that are captured overseas.

Perhaps you need to read the Constitution again, specifically the roles given to each branch of the Federal Government.

First off you skipped over the appropriation of funding that is to be for no longer than 2 years part.

Secondly..that's primarily what the SECOND AMENDMENT was all about. To have an armed and ready force of men without having to PAY for it.

Third..I don't know what you are babbling about with Miranda rights. Some of your brethren are all upset over the use of drones to kill terrorists. And many have died that way. I don't recall Osama being read anything.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. Additionally..pick up the Federalist papers. James Madison is pretty clear about a standing army.

I know you like to focus on the appropriation of funding while ignoring the responsibility AND DUTY of Congress to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia. How would you suggest such a specific role and duty of Congress be fulfilled without funding? It's not rocket science, but rather using some very basic common sense. Also you ignore the duty given to the executive branch to uphold, preserve, and defend the Constitution against foreign enemies.

With regard to your view of "militia", I'd suggest you research the term. The interpretation and usage of that word itself, holds a whole new meaning than your 21st century misinterpretation... and that's what you're doing in this case.

However, if you rather only look to interpreting the Constitution through only the eyes of how it's exactly used, then government health care would be a task that haS NEVER been instructed as a role and responsibility for our government to pursue.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Played SimCity have ya?

The United States of America is the largest municipal corporation in the world. Trying to run that corporation with a business plan 200+ years old is STUPID.

Here's some reality for ya.

EVERY sale that a business makes is helped either directly or indirectly by the government. The customer needs to get to the store. The store needs to get to the customer. The government made that happen!

Have you ever heard of the Amish?

The Amish are on the internet

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

 

[rightwinger]

Have you ever heard of the Amish?

The Amish are on the internet

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

Google Amish Furniture
Google Amish Shed

 

[Spoonman]

well given their track record and high rate of failure on whatever they manage, they should definitely be limited in their scope

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The Amish are on the internet

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

Google Amish Furniture
Google Amish Shed

I can google and provide a link for you (if you like in my next reply) a researched study that says liberals don't have a solid grasp of basic economics because their ideology gets in the way. Would you say that is an accurate generalization of the left? Besides, I have frequented Lancaster PA's Amish myself.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Amish are on the internet

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

Google Amish Furniture
Google Amish Shed

Has it occurred to you that these are non-Amish people selling Amish products that they bought wholesale and are now selling retail? It does not logically follow that just because the business name says AMISH that it is Amish people who are running it anymore than my friends, the Kirkpatricks, are expected to be Mexican because they are running a restaurant called "Maria's Mexican Kitchen".

But back to the topic but still within the 'what is in a name' category, our ever expanding, bloated, and needy federal government has hundreds, maybe thousands, of programs that have high minded, noble, and/or compassionate sounding titles that are accomplishing little or nothing related to those titles. Most of them anymore simply exist to feed and serve themselves while throwing the people a bone once in awhile to keep them quiet.

THAT, if there was no other reason, is an argument in favor of a small federal government that is restricted to certain, constitutionally mandated tasks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Played SimCity have ya?

The United States of America is the largest municipal corporation in the world. Trying to run that corporation with a business plan 200+ years old is STUPID.

Here's some reality for ya.

EVERY sale that a business makes is helped either directly or indirectly by the government. The customer needs to get to the store. The store needs to get to the customer. The government made that happen!

Have you ever heard of the Amish?

You mean the folks that market those fake fireplaces on the infomercials on TV that is regulated by the government and the internet that is provided by an infrastructure that majority is located in public institutions? Then the sold fireplaces are transported on public highways to their customers.

You could have just said no.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Customers.

Tell that to the Amish, who do just fine working hard selling furniture and garden produce all without any government assistance.

Who do they sell their goods and services to?

EDIT: Before a meaningless fight breaks out, I should point out I agree with you. We gravitate toward the Amish because their work has no tax.

Not true, on so many levels it is hard to cover all of them. I do want to deal with the most obvious, if you buy something from the Amish you are still obligated to pay taxes, they just refuse to collect them for the government.

 

[FA_Q2]

Who do they sell their goods and services to?

EDIT: Before a meaningless fight breaks out, I should point out I agree with you. We gravitate toward the Amish because their work has no tax.

They come together to provide all the needs of those within their own community first, then graciously sell their products on the side of the road to whoever else is in need of their service. They rely on no public transportation and seek no government "hand outs". So tell me what dependency do they really have in government? They are VERY self supporting, even as far as providing their own manure if you want to get into detailed specifics. Not to mention they own the only transportation that doesn't require an emissions test, unless you are just asking to get kicked.

They are a community, and as such come together. On this point I can neither argue nor disagree, they do this as well as the native americans whom inhabited this land before we stole it.

Past the issue of community, I urge you to research whom you are speaking to before you declare your own opinion as truth. I live in Marion County of Ohio but reside in a village called La Rue, approximately ten miles from a village called Hepburn. I live in amish country.

It is true, they take care of themselves first and they do it very well, but there are a multitude of circumstances you haven't considered. First and foremost, they are religiously exempt from all taxes. They keep an absolute 100% of their income, and they use their income in order to provide for their community.

The only thing Amish sell on the road is extraneous food resources. They are able to sell this food cheaply due to their exemption from taxes. Without this exemption they would have no hope in competing, and as it stands they have little hope in competing with the major corporations. It isn't as though they sell these good graciously as though they had no need to do so, they have an absolute need to push their good unto others. They must heat their homes which lie off our infrastructures, and they must pay for the beginnings of the next season. The Amish are my neighbors, and I assure you I know more of their culture than you would ever hope to know short of being bred into their community. Without the assistance of government, even they would not compare to my local farmers who fall victim of MONSANTO.

Why should they pay taxes when they receive none of the benefits associated with said taxes?

They use virtually nothing that the government provides.

 

[rightwinger]

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

Google Amish Furniture
Google Amish Shed

I can google and provide a link for you (if you like in my next reply) a researched study that says liberals don't have a solid grasp of basic economics because their ideology gets in the way. Would you say that is an accurate generalization of the left? Besides, I have frequented Lancaster PA's Amish myself.

I have bought furniture and my neighbor bought a shed. They have an online presence. They are not as isolated from modern times as many think.

 

[oreo]

This has got to be the most hilarious thread on this board right now? We have a person actually asking why government should be kept smaller. HELLO: Have you been asleep for the last two months--OBAMACARE is why government should be smaller. What a total DISASTER the Federal Government has made out of health care this country, is why.

PURPOSE OF OBAMACARE: to insure the uninsured EFFECT OF OBAMACARE: uninsuring the insured

5.2 million Americans, after being promised by Obama over 40 times that they could keep their insurance if they like them--have already received cancellations notices from their insurers. Only 27,000 have signed up on the state Obamacare exchanges, while a whopping 500,000 have signed up for FREE Medicade on these sites! Why? Because Obamacare is NOT affordable as promised dozens of times--so the 5 million that just had their policies canceled aren't BUYING Obamacare insurance, they can't afford it.

And you want a BIGGER Federal Government?--LOL

 

[rightwinger]

They come together to provide all the needs of those within their own community first, then graciously sell their products on the side of the road to whoever else is in need of their service. They rely on no public transportation and seek no government "hand outs". So tell me what dependency do they really have in government? They are VERY self supporting, even as far as providing their own manure if you want to get into detailed specifics. Not to mention they own the only transportation that doesn't require an emissions test, unless you are just asking to get kicked.

They are a community, and as such come together. On this point I can neither argue nor disagree, they do this as well as the native americans whom inhabited this land before we stole it.

Past the issue of community, I urge you to research whom you are speaking to before you declare your own opinion as truth. I live in Marion County of Ohio but reside in a village called La Rue, approximately ten miles from a village called Hepburn. I live in amish country.

It is true, they take care of themselves first and they do it very well, but there are a multitude of circumstances you haven't considered. First and foremost, they are religiously exempt from all taxes. They keep an absolute 100% of their income, and they use their income in order to provide for their community.

The only thing Amish sell on the road is extraneous food resources. They are able to sell this food cheaply due to their exemption from taxes. Without this exemption they would have no hope in competing, and as it stands they have little hope in competing with the major corporations. It isn't as though they sell these good graciously as though they had no need to do so, they have an absolute need to push their good unto others. They must heat their homes which lie off our infrastructures, and they must pay for the beginnings of the next season. The Amish are my neighbors, and I assure you I know more of their culture than you would ever hope to know short of being bred into their community. Without the assistance of government, even they would not compare to my local farmers who fall victim of MONSANTO.

Why should they pay taxes when they receive none of the benefits associated with said taxes?

They use virtually nothing that the government provides.

Bullshit

They receive the same protections as the rest of us. They use the roads. They benefit from safe food, drugs, water

 

[rightwinger]

To generalize the Amish in such fashion would be a mistake on your part. There are various religious sects or groups that follow various acceptances of worldly technology. Some groups in fact don't even believe in driving cars, so how do you expect them to gravitate towards the Internet?

Google Amish Furniture
Google Amish Shed

Has it occurred to you that these are non-Amish people selling Amish products that they bought wholesale and are now selling retail? It does not logically follow that just because the business name says AMISH that it is Amish people who are running it anymore than my friends, the Kirkpatricks, are expected to be Mexican because they are running a restaurant called "Maria's Mexican Kitchen".

But back to the topic but still within the 'what is in a name' category, our ever expanding, bloated, and needy federal government has hundreds, maybe thousands, of programs that have high minded, noble, and/or compassionate sounding titles that are accomplishing little or nothing related to those titles. Most of them anymore simply exist to feed and serve themselves while throwing the people a bone once in awhile to keep them quiet.

THAT, if there was no other reason, is an argument in favor of a small federal government that is restricted to certain, constitutionally mandated tasks.

I have been to Lancaster PA many times. They are Amish and they are not simple folk. They know what they are selling and they make a good profit.

 

[bripat9643]

They are a community, and as such come together. On this point I can neither argue nor disagree, they do this as well as the native americans whom inhabited this land before we stole it.

Past the issue of community, I urge you to research whom you are speaking to before you declare your own opinion as truth. I live in Marion County of Ohio but reside in a village called La Rue, approximately ten miles from a village called Hepburn. I live in amish country.

It is true, they take care of themselves first and they do it very well, but there are a multitude of circumstances you haven't considered. First and foremost, they are religiously exempt from all taxes. They keep an absolute 100% of their income, and they use their income in order to provide for their community.

The only thing Amish sell on the road is extraneous food resources. They are able to sell this food cheaply due to their exemption from taxes. Without this exemption they would have no hope in competing, and as it stands they have little hope in competing with the major corporations. It isn't as though they sell these good graciously as though they had no need to do so, they have an absolute need to push their good unto others. They must heat their homes which lie off our infrastructures, and they must pay for the beginnings of the next season. The Amish are my neighbors, and I assure you I know more of their culture than you would ever hope to know short of being bred into their community. Without the assistance of government, even they would not compare to my local farmers who fall victim of MONSANTO.

Why should they pay taxes when they receive none of the benefits associated with said taxes?

They use virtually nothing that the government provides.

Bullshit

They receive the same protections as the rest of us. They use the roads. They benefit from safe food, drugs, water

That covers about 2% of what they pay in taxes. What do they get for the rest?

 

[uhkilleez]

I too am familiar with the Amish as I reside under an hour from Lancaster Pennsylvania and am quite familiar with their religious exemption. However, as they don't pay taxes, they are exempt from certain services that the government provides others outside of their community. The Amish here provide tours in certain locations as a means to generate income, as well as have built and opened up a grocery store on their farm land for those who like more organic sugars and dairy products. There exemption of taxes has nothing to do with competing with local farmers, as the Amish here are among the largest group in the nation, but more based on religious exemption. The community seldom integrates with the dealings of the outside world. They are not required to serve in the military as they don't believe in the influences of worldly culture such as guns. So believe me when I say I am quite familiar with their exemption status and various beliefs (depending upon their chosen views of how much "worldly" influence they are willing to bring INTO their world). So your basis on no taxes for competition with local farm producers is highly inaccurate. If that's your reasoning, then you need to do some more research on the various sects that exists (especially look into Lancaster PA as a reference if you like). It's unfortunate, I might add, that quite a few of them also choose not to associate themselves (build relationships) with the likes of those OUTSIDE of their world... but that's a part of their chosen "be ye separate" beliefs. You see, when they are teenagers they are given a year to explore and decide for themselves which life they want to accept. Based on the teens decision, they often shun those who choose the outside world, whereby rejecting the life they grew up in and shunned from any association with their family AND the lifestyle of the community.

I am well aware of their practices, I used to party with some Amish teens. They wound up leaving their communities and shacked up with some buddies, got jobs and partied constantly. The benefits they receive from tax exemptions allow them to sell their goods at a price., which allows them to compete with local farmers and major corporations who can sell their food cheaply due to improved technology that results in a greater yield. You do have a point with their niche market, but it wouldn't be substantial in my area. I was not saying that they are in cahoots with government to get these benefits, it's just a consequence of their tax exemption. Corporations like Monsanto get subsidized and are allowed to use unfair practices to root out local farmers, such as contaminating their land and following the contamination up with a lawsuit. Without government, Monsanto couldn't be the huge GMO corporation they are.

 

[uhkilleez]

Why should they pay taxes when they receive none of the benefits associated with said taxes?

They use virtually nothing that the government provides.

Bullshit

They receive the same protections as the rest of us. They use the roads. They benefit from safe food, drugs, water

That covers about 2% of what they pay in taxes. What do they get for the rest?

What more do any of us get from government? I didn't get my Obama phone, I don't get welfare, I don't get food stamps. I sure do pay for all that bullshit, though. The only thing I get from government are shitty roads, water with fluoride in it, and a fucking headache.

 

[uhkilleez]

They come together to provide all the needs of those within their own community first, then graciously sell their products on the side of the road to whoever else is in need of their service. They rely on no public transportation and seek no government "hand outs". So tell me what dependency do they really have in government? They are VERY self supporting, even as far as providing their own manure if you want to get into detailed specifics. Not to mention they own the only transportation that doesn't require an emissions test, unless you are just asking to get kicked.

They are a community, and as such come together. On this point I can neither argue nor disagree, they do this as well as the native americans whom inhabited this land before we stole it.

Past the issue of community, I urge you to research whom you are speaking to before you declare your own opinion as truth. I live in Marion County of Ohio but reside in a village called La Rue, approximately ten miles from a village called Hepburn. I live in amish country.

It is true, they take care of themselves first and they do it very well, but there are a multitude of circumstances you haven't considered. First and foremost, they are religiously exempt from all taxes. They keep an absolute 100% of their income, and they use their income in order to provide for their community.

The only thing Amish sell on the road is extraneous food resources. They are able to sell this food cheaply due to their exemption from taxes. Without this exemption they would have no hope in competing, and as it stands they have little hope in competing with the major corporations. It isn't as though they sell these good graciously as though they had no need to do so, they have an absolute need to push their good unto others. They must heat their homes which lie off our infrastructures, and they must pay for the beginnings of the next season. The Amish are my neighbors, and I assure you I know more of their culture than you would ever hope to know short of being bred into their community. Without the assistance of government, even they would not compare to my local farmers who fall victim of MONSANTO.

Why should they pay taxes when they receive none of the benefits associated with said taxes?

They use virtually nothing that the government provides.

When did I say they should pay taxes?

 

[uhkilleez]

Government needs to do what needs doing. Some things government does more efficiently and effectively than individuals can. That is why we formed governments.

Why try to arbitrarily restrict the size of government?

Let the voters decide what size government they want

Government was the result of the need for people to organize in order to ensure the protection of themselves and their neighbors. Government isn't necessary for people to organize a community.

 

[Indeependent]

Bullshit

They receive the same protections as the rest of us. They use the roads. They benefit from safe food, drugs, water

That covers about 2% of what they pay in taxes. What do they get for the rest?

What more do any of us get from government? I didn't get my Obama phone, I don't get welfare, I don't get food stamps. I sure do pay for all that bullshit, though. The only thing I get from government are shitty roads, water with fluoride in it, and a fucking headache.

You get your goods from China being protected by our military as they are being transported here.