Why so much hate for the Confederacy.? It can't be about slavery.

[Syriusly]

You are the one who seems to be illiterate of history here. Lincoln was an abolitionist and his plan for abolition was to gradually get rid of slavery over time. (Gradual Abolition) His solution for dealing with the uncomfortable consequences of free slaves running loose in white society was to ship them off to Central America or back to Africa.

Lincoln always said he was NOT an abolitionist. He opposed slavery but said he had neither the authority nor inclination to do anything about it. Eventually he issued the EP but that didn't free any slaves.

You actually had a post that had something correct- all the way up to the Emancipation Proclamation- when you spewed the revisionists BS line.

All of the slaves in the territories marked in red were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an estimated 20,000 slaves.

All of the areas is pink (or taupe) were the areas that eventually had all of the slaves freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. The Emancipation Proclamation freed the majority of slaves in America.

You will note, all the "freed slaves" are in the CSA. Lincoln had no authority in the CSA.

What Lincoln did was actually a very questionable Constitutional act. As CinC of the military, he is authorized to seize enemy property in the name of "spoils of war" or as military strategy. This is why it could not pertain to the 400k slaves in the blue areas of your map.

If you contend the CSA was never a country in it's own right, and the Confederacy was simply a rebellion of US citizens, then the Emancipation Proclamation is unconstitutional.

Slaves in the United States were not free until ratification of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments.

Wow- you should have been telling that to the slaves were celebrating being freed by Emancipation Proclamation. They no longer could be bought and sold- but you say that they were not actually free?

Lincoln's authority to do exactly what he did was never successfully legally challenged. You say he didn't have the right? Who cares? He did it- slaves were freed, and the Emancipation Act ultimately led to the 13th Amendment, and the freeing the of the remaining slaves.

Yes he did it... he used the powers of president as commander-in-chief to seize enemy property at time of war. It was illegal and unconstitutional for him to seize property of American citizens protected by the Constitution. It took passage of the 13th to change that because it was the law and SCOTUS had made it crystal clear.
.

Not enemy property- property of the rebellious states that were using said property to support their illegal rebellion

Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion,

The Supreme Court never found LIncoln's actions to be unconstitutional- and his Emancipation Proclamation resulted in the freeing of the majority of slaves owned in the United States

 

[Syriusly]

You are the one who seems to be illiterate of history here. Lincoln was an abolitionist and his plan for abolition was to gradually get rid of slavery over time. (Gradual Abolition) His solution for dealing with the uncomfortable consequences of free slaves running loose in white society was to ship them off to Central America or back to Africa.

Lincoln always said he was NOT an abolitionist. He opposed slavery but said he had neither the authority nor inclination to do anything about it. Eventually he issued the EP but that didn't free any slaves.

You actually had a post that had something correct- all the way up to the Emancipation Proclamation- when you spewed the revisionists BS line.

All of the slaves in the territories marked in red were immediately freed by the Emancipation Proclamation- an estimated 20,000 slaves.

All of the areas is pink (or taupe) were the areas that eventually had all of the slaves freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. The Emancipation Proclamation freed the majority of slaves in America.

You will note, all the "freed slaves" are in the CSA. Lincoln had no authority in the CSA.

What Lincoln did was actually a very questionable Constitutional act. As CinC of the military, he is authorized to seize enemy property in the name of "spoils of war" or as military strategy. This is why it could not pertain to the 400k slaves in the blue areas of your map.

If you contend the CSA was never a country in it's own right, and the Confederacy was simply a rebellion of US citizens, then the Emancipation Proclamation is unconstitutional.

Slaves in the United States were not free until ratification of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments.

Wow- you should have been telling that to the slaves were celebrating being freed by Emancipation Proclamation. They no longer could be bought and sold- but you say that they were not actually free?

Lincoln's authority to do exactly what he did was never successfully legally challenged. You say he didn't have the right? Who cares? He did it- slaves were freed, and the Emancipation Act ultimately led to the 13th Amendment, and the freeing the of the remaining slaves.

Now.... I fully understand that most of your historical knowledge comes from watching films and movies depicting the cheering slaves when the EP was issued... no doubt, that is how our media glorifies history and they've been doing that for a long time. There's a saying: The winners write the history books. So much of what we've all learned in school is very one-sided and tends to gloss over some very important details and aspects in principle.

And with that you just exposed yourself to be the idiot that you are.

You were doing a great job of it before- but when you tell me where my historical knowledge comes from- you just show what a total Ass you are making out of yourself.

 

[Boss]

Did Lincoln seize property, or did he free people who were unjustly held as slaves? Who wants to be on the side of those who maintain blacks were not human?

In 1861, the SCOTUS (NOT THE CSA) had long since taken the position that slaves were not citizens, had no rights under the Constitution and were legitimately-owned and legal personal property. That WAS US LAW! ...are you failing to comprehend this or something?

And you cannot "free" something you don't have in your possession. It's impossible.

 

[Skylar]

Show us anything where Lincoln proposed, advocated or called for abolition in the south before his inauguration.

I've already clarified your error in misconception.

There's no misconception. You said this:

Sorry, but Lincoln campaigned on Abolition in 1860.

And you're completely full of shit. That didn't happen. You've never been able to back that bullshit up. And even after I spoon fed you a litany of speeches, his inaugural addresses, the Lincoln Douglas Debates, even the Cooper Union speech in which his pre-election positions are laid out in immaculate detail, complete with links and summaries.

........you still couldn't find any support for your argument.

You've got nothing. And as all the backpedaling and excuses demonstrate, you know it. You've lost. And now you're just burning credibility by being unwillling to admit you fucked up.

It happens. You were wrong. Man up and move on.

 

[Syriusly]

Clearly the majority of slaves in America were freed before the enactment of the 13th Amendment

Well manumission had been happening since the late 1700s across the South. No telling how many slaves were freed by their owners. Slaves did not become constitutionally free citizens until the 13th, 14th and 15th were ratified.

And again- the majority of slaves in America were freed prior to the enactment of the 13th Amendment- which was enacted 8 months after the end of the Civil War, and the majority of slaves were freed from slavery.

Former slaves and the remaining legal slaves did not become full citizens until the 13th Amendment was enacted.

 

[Syriusly]

Did Lincoln seize property, or did he free people who were unjustly held as slaves? Who wants to be on the side of those who maintain blacks were not human?

In 1861, the SCOTUS (NOT THE CSA) had long since taken the position that slaves were not citizens, had no rights under the Constitution and were legitimately-owned and legal personal property. That WAS US LAW! ...are you failing to comprehend this or something?

And you cannot "free" something you don't have in your possession. It's impossible.

Clearly it wasn't impossible. Slaves in parts of the United States were freed immediately. Slaves who escaped the slave holding rebel states were free when they reached Union lines. And as Union troops recaptured Rebel held territory, the slaves in those regions were freed.

 

[Skylar]

Did Lincoln seize property, or did he free people who were unjustly held as slaves? Who wants to be on the side of those who maintain blacks were not human?

In 1861, the SCOTUS (NOT THE CSA) had long since taken the position that slaves were not citizens, had no rights under the Constitution and were legitimately-owned and legal personal property. That WAS US LAW! ...are you failing to comprehend this or something?

And you cannot "free" something you don't have in your possession. It's impossible.

Take a look at the First and Second Confiscation Acts if you want to talk about relevant US law.

 

[RKMBrown]

There were four UNION STATES, KY MD MO DE, that had legal slavery during the civil war. Those 4 states had a combined total of 400,000 slaves.!! Yes, the south had 3.6 million slaves but the point remains that both sides had slave states .

For the 8 millionth time, the CW was not about slavery. The idea is absurd. The media is telling another of it's whopper lies.

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

 

[Syriusly]

There were four UNION STATES, KY MD MO DE, that had legal slavery during the civil war. Those 4 states had a combined total of 400,000 slaves.!! Yes, the south had 3.6 million slaves but the point remains that both sides had slave states .

For the 8 millionth time, the CW was not about slavery. The idea is absurd. The media is telling another of it's whopper lies.

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

 

[RKMBrown]

There were four UNION STATES, KY MD MO DE, that had legal slavery during the civil war. Those 4 states had a combined total of 400,000 slaves.!! Yes, the south had 3.6 million slaves but the point remains that both sides had slave states .

For the 8 millionth time, the CW was not about slavery. The idea is absurd. The media is telling another of it's whopper lies.

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

 

[Skylar]

Did Lincoln seize property, or did he free people who were unjustly held as slaves? Who wants to be on the side of those who maintain blacks were not human?

In 1861, the SCOTUS (NOT THE CSA) had long since taken the position that slaves were not citizens, had no rights under the Constitution and were legitimately-owned and legal personal property. That WAS US LAW! ...are you failing to comprehend this or something?

And you cannot "free" something you don't have in your possession. It's impossible.

Clearly it wasn't impossible. Slaves in parts of the United States were freed immediately. Slaves who escaped the slave holding rebel states were free when they reached Union lines. And as Union troops recaptured Rebel held territory, the slaves in those regions were freed.

Until the Emanicpation Proclamation the slaves were seized under the Confiscation Act of 1862. They weren't free, but they were the property of the United States government. Which lead to an odd situation where for about a year, the US government owned thousands of slaves.

 

[there4eyeM]

The overarching truth is that owning people is an oxymoron. One does not own another, though one may have the illusion and may exercise a tyrannical authority over a captive. Their is no right to own someone, and all previous thought and practice was error. Ending it could not come too soon, and in fact came very late.

 

[Syriusly]

There were four UNION STATES, KY MD MO DE, that had legal slavery during the civil war. Those 4 states had a combined total of 400,000 slaves.!! Yes, the south had 3.6 million slaves but the point remains that both sides had slave states .

For the 8 millionth time, the CW was not about slavery. The idea is absurd. The media is telling another of it's whopper lies.

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

 

[Skylar]

The overarching truth is that owning people is an oxymoron. One does not own another, though one may have the illusion and may exercise a tyrannical authority over a captive. Their is no right to own someone, and all previous thought and practice was error. Ending it could not come too soon, and in fact came very late.

Yeah, Slavery and the concept of natural rights/the equality of all men are mutually exclusive ideas. If you have one, you obviously don't have the other.

 

[Skylar]

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

Yup. That was the central and key issue. South Carolina made that ridiculously clear that slavery and state's rights to own slaves were the reason for seceding.

Its only now, with our revisionists in their full glory that South Carolina's own rationale is ignored in favor of a slavery free explanation for secession.

Its simple idiocy.

 

[RKMBrown]

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

Yup. That was the central and key issue. South Carolina made that ridiculously clear that slavery and state's rights to own slaves were the reason for seceding.

Its only now, with our revisionists in their full glory that South Carolina's own rationale is ignored in favor of a slavery free explanation for secession.

Its simple idiocy.

You're a lying piece of shit moron.

 

[Syriusly]

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

Yup. That was the central and key issue. South Carolina made that ridiculously clear that slavery and state's rights to own slaves were the reason for seceding.

Its only now, with our revisionists in their full glory that South Carolina's own rationale is ignored in favor of a slavery free explanation for secession.

Its simple idiocy.

You're a lying piece of shit moron.

And that in a nutshell is their nutty retort.

 

[RKMBrown]

Southerners have a unique culture, accents, and don't agree with Northerners on a great many topics. As such, you'll consistently see Northerners talking down on Southerners out of had. This brings out a great deal of mutual dislike.

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

No, they did secede and formed their own Country. The reason there is no Confederate States of America is the murderous north bought hundreds of thousands of soldiers for hire from Europe to kill millions of women and children in the southern states for the promise of money, land, and booty. Ironically slavery was about to end across the world anyway. But the murderous war on the south was not about ending slavery it was about power and control over the south.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

Yup. That was the central and key issue. South Carolina made that ridiculously clear that slavery and state's rights to own slaves were the reason for seceding.

Its only now, with our revisionists in their full glory that South Carolina's own rationale is ignored in favor of a slavery free explanation for secession.

Its simple idiocy.

You're a lying piece of shit moron.

And that in a nutshell is their nutty retort.

It's the truth. Skylar is a piece of shit. A liar. And a certified moron.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL....Southerners have different cultures than the North- but even Southerners can't agree on their 'unique culture'. The Southerner from coastal Charleston and Savannah is not the same as the Southerner in central Alabama is not the same as the 'Southerner' in east Texas.

Well some southerners were born in central GA from parents who were raised in KY and GA and were then raised in South FL, and currently live in Central TX. So yes, I'm aware of variances across the south. Still one thing is common... damn yankees are still blaming the south for slavery when ironically the yankees started it.

Yeah..........

I don't blame the 'South' just because slavery existed in the South. I don't really blame the 'South' for anything. I blame the Confederacy, and Confederate leaders for attempting to secede to protect their slave property, and for starting a war that killed so many Americans.

But i don't blame the South- or Southerners for that.

I'm not convinced it was an attempt to secede. I'm pretty sure they did secede. As for why they did there were multiple reasons and yes property rights was one of them. Sure the victors claim it was the only reason but we all know better.

I am pretty sure that they didn't seceded- which is why there is no Confederate States of America still around defending their right to own human property.

If you want to know the reason for the attempted secession- read up on the Presidential campaign that ended with Lincoln being elected- the primary reason was 'states rights'- to own human property.

No, they did secede and formed their own Country. The reason there is no Confederate States of America is the murderous north bought hundreds of thousands of soldiers for hire from Europe to kill millions of women and children in the southern states for the promise of money, land, and booty. Ironically slavery was about to end across the world anyway.

Wow.....is this what they teach you in Cloud Coo Coo Land?

The Confederate states attempted to secede. There is no Confederate States because they did not succeed.
The Confederate States attempted to secede in order to protect the property rights over human property.
The North enlisted millions of immigrants- didn't hire any mercenaries from Europe.
There were not millions of women and children killed in the Southern states.

And slavery was ending in much of the world- but the Confederate States seceded in order to ensure it did not happen in the South.