Why the fight against Birth Control?

[HereWeGoAgain]

Exactly "free" birth control has nothing to do with personal responsibility.

But you far left drones do not care for that, you want the government to dictate your lives to you!

I'm less interested in "personal responsibility" then I am in reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion. You can lecture all you want on personal responsibility but in the end, when you are faced with the long term social costs of unwanted children, teen mothers who drop out of school and perpetrate the cycle of single teenage mothers, personal responsibility doesn't count for shit.

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

 

[Kosh]

I'm less interested in "personal responsibility" then I am in reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion. You can lecture all you want on personal responsibility but in the end, when you are faced with the long term social costs of unwanted children, teen mothers who drop out of school and perpetrate the cycle of single teenage mothers, personal responsibility doesn't count for shit.

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

It is free when you go into a free clinic.

However just like any hormone it should be monitored by a doctor and doctors are not free, no matter how much the far left tells you they are.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Until the 7th month a fetus is just a parasitic growth inside a female's womb.

Removing parasites is everyone's right, male or female, old or young. This notion is self evident and as such a-priori.

You should be sterilized. Worthless subhuman creature

 

[Coyote]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

The *unwanted pregnancy* rate is higher now than it was pre-pill.

As is the abortion rate.

So stop with the drivel about how the pill and abortion prevent unwanted pregnancies and abortion.

The problem is our changing culture. The hippies in the 60's promoted free love and then a series of entertainers, like Madonna, glamorizing sluts. It has an impact. It was all about removing the stigma of sleeping around. And when parents bought into all that crap, they fail to teach their children how to make choices in their own best interests. The left still goes out of their way to ensure that young people don't have to take responsibility for their actions doesn't help. The left laughed at those teaching abstinence as if it were an impossible goal. It's not. It's good to make them at least think twice before jumping into bed. Then there are those who see having a baby as a means of getting welfare and it likely sounds good to some teens who haven't been taught responsibility. Personal responsibility and knowing you pay the price for your own decisions is the biggest deterrent to being stupid.

I think that's a bit misguided. Unwanted pregnancies have always been a problem, especially teen pregnancies. It just had such a huge social stigma before that you either had a shotgun wedding or hidden away until birth and gave the baby up for adoption, or worse.

I have no problem with abstinance - as part of a holistic approach to teaching sexual responsibility. But what's wrong with adding free birth control to it so at least - if they are going to make a bad choice, it's not a totally bad one. Having birth control freely available and choosing to use it IS taking responsibility.

 

[yiostheoy]

My grandma had her first child at 16. Her formal education ended after 8th grade. And I would pit her education against any 19 year old graduate in the country today.

That's going to change as well. Because we're going to stop funding the Dept. of Disinformation..I mean Education. All those stupid programs that have taken the place of teaching...those are going away, never to return.

Well that was a pleasant anecdote but not relevant at all to anything.

Granny's old coochie is no different than any other coochie.

And it is the irresistible allure of the coochie that leads to pregnancy, unwanted pregnancy, motherhood, and unwed motherhood.

How we deal with each of these social issues is political.

It will be interesting to see what Trump, McConnell, Ryan, and to a lesser extent Schumer can agree on for the next 2 years until the next Senate and House elections.

Trump's job is secure for the next 4 years, but in 2 more years will come his first big midterm test.

If the DEM's take over the Senate or the House, then Trump's agenda is dead thereafter and he will be a lame duck, and he will then need to do everything he does with Presidential directives -- same as BHO did.

In my own Philosophical and Scientific world where Religion is needless and useless, since I am a Deist not a Theist, the issue of birth control is a matter of pure logical common sense.

The issue of abortion depends on whether the fetus is younger than 7 months.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

As I've said. BC should be free.

Are you going to work in the "birth control factory" and provide the FREE LABOR? Or are you gonna drive the birth control truck for free? Or will you work in the birth control store and give your labor away without a paycheck?

How old are you?!!!

 

[yiostheoy]

I think that's a bit misguided. Unwanted pregnancies have always been a problem, especially teen pregnancies. It just had such a huge social stigma before that you either had a shotgun wedding or hidden away until birth and gave the baby up for adoption, or worse.

I have no problem with abstinance - as part of a holistic approach to teaching sexual responsibility. But what's wrong with adding free birth control to it so at least - if they are going to make a bad choice, it's not a totally bad one. Having birth control freely available and choosing to use it IS taking responsibility.

Abstinance --- hmm -- my spell checker underlines this in red.

I think it is spelled "abstinence" -- yah that's better.

I think abstinence is a bad idea invented by Moses to keep little Hebrew girls cleaner. Otherwise the various venereal diseases of Egypt might infect the boyz of the Hebrew Host. Moses needed good fighters to vanquish the Canaanites, and you can't fight if your penis hurts.

Sheep's intestines can be tied off with a flax thread to make a pretty good condom.

There have always been condoms. And there always will be.

Abstinence would kill your social life and no boyz would ask you out again.

Then you would need to go to a fertility clinic and become an unwed mother that way.

And as an unwed mother it is more difficult to get dates.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

Woah. So getting pregnant means one is a whore? Seriously?

Depends entirely on whether or not the whore in question is married.

I look at this from a public health/cost perspective. Whether you like it or not - unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies in particular COST society. Prevention is relatively inexpensive compared to the social cost of unwanted and teen pregnancies. And it seems to work.

So yes, you can go on about personal responsibility and I'm all for that except it really doesn't work well in reality. I'm totally for education, teaching them about personal responsibility, helping them understand the costs to them of unprepared motherhood - but just in case, let's also give them birth control because young people are young people and if, for whatever reason, they fail to meet the morality standards you demand - at least let's not have them become pregnant.

They shouldn't COST SOCIETY, they should cost the whore in question, since it was partly her decision, and the walking dong that failed to control himself. It works just fine. If some whore lacks self control, that shouldn't be the problem of her tax-paying neighbor, it should be HER problem, and the problem of the walking dong that is ALSO responsible for their stupid decision.

Oh, you don't seem to understand, I don't demand any moral standard, the vast majority of people are stupid and lack morals. I expect nothing from humans in general, they exist almost entirely to fail your expectations, and to take for themselves. They are selfish creatures who, when an opportunity presents itself, will make whatever stupid decisions are available. No, what I expect is for every human being to be responsible for the decisions they make, and the consequences that result from said decision, regardless of how dire. The government is not responsible, their tax-paying neighbors are not responsible, THEY are responsible, as in the individuals who failed to control themselves, lacked foresight, and all around are stupid people.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

The *unwanted pregnancy* rate is higher now than it was pre-pill.

As is the abortion rate.

So stop with the drivel about how the pill and abortion prevent unwanted pregnancies and abortion.

The problem is our changing culture. The hippies in the 60's promoted free love and then a series of entertainers, like Madonna, glamorizing sluts. It has an impact. It was all about removing the stigma of sleeping around. And when parents bought into all that crap, they fail to teach their children how to make choices in their own best interests. The left still goes out of their way to ensure that young people don't have to take responsibility for their actions doesn't help. The left laughed at those teaching abstinence as if it were an impossible goal. It's not. It's good to make them at least think twice before jumping into bed. Then there are those who see having a baby as a means of getting welfare and it likely sounds good to some teens who haven't been taught responsibility. Personal responsibility and knowing you pay the price for your own decisions is the biggest deterrent to being stupid.

I think that's a bit misguided. Unwanted pregnancies have always been a problem, especially teen pregnancies. It just had such a huge social stigma before that you either had a shotgun wedding or hidden away until birth and gave the baby up for adoption, or worse.

I have no problem with abstinance - as part of a holistic approach to teaching sexual responsibility. But what's wrong with adding free birth control to it so at least - if they are going to make a bad choice, it's not a totally bad one. Having birth control freely available and choosing to use it IS taking responsibility.

Yup as you know I am 51 but I remember taking my girl friend to the doctor when I was 18 and she was 16 she wanted to get birth control.. And they said no.. She was mad as hell..

Some days are burned in your mind I was driving my 82 camero then.. Her name was Sharon..

 

[Dr Grump]

So what bill or laws that prevents you from getting birth control?

Go to any clinic and you can get free rubbers, they even pass out rubbers in schools, so what are you far left drones trying to get at?

Maybe you should take responsibility for your actions and stop trying to blame others for your mistakes, like creating this horrid thread.

It is time to have elections on the mods..

Oh, shut up.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

Woah. So getting pregnant means one is a whore? Seriously?

Depends entirely on whether or not the whore in question is married.

I look at this from a public health/cost perspective. Whether you like it or not - unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies in particular COST society. Prevention is relatively inexpensive compared to the social cost of unwanted and teen pregnancies. And it seems to work.

So yes, you can go on about personal responsibility and I'm all for that except it really doesn't work well in reality. I'm totally for education, teaching them about personal responsibility, helping them understand the costs to them of unprepared motherhood - but just in case, let's also give them birth control because young people are young people and if, for whatever reason, they fail to meet the morality standards you demand - at least let's not have them become pregnant.

They shouldn't COST SOCIETY, they should cost the whore in question, since it was partly her decision, and the walking dong that failed to control himself. It works just fine. If some whore lacks self control, that shouldn't be the problem of her tax-paying neighbor, it should be HER problem, and the problem of the walking dong that is ALSO responsible for their stupid decision.

Oh, you don't seem to understand, I don't demand any moral standard, the vast majority of people are stupid and lack morals. I expect nothing from humans in general, they exist almost entirely to fail your expectations, and to take for themselves. They are selfish creatures who, when an opportunity presents itself, will make whatever stupid decisions are available. No, what I expect is for every human being to be responsible for the decisions they make, and the consequences that result from said decision, regardless of how dire. The government is not responsible, their tax-paying neighbors are not responsible, THEY are responsible, as in the individuals who failed to control themselves, lacked foresight, and all around are stupid people.

Woa wait a second you lying to us?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

It is free when you go into a free clinic.

However just like any hormone it should be monitored by a doctor and doctors are not free, no matter how much the far left tells you they are.

I have no concern with the cost of BC,it's the cost of raising kids on our tax dollars that bothers me.
If you dont want to raise children on your own buck you better take advantage of the free gov solution to avoid that situation.

 

[Coyote]

As I've said. BC should be free.

Are you going to workbin the "birth control factory" and provide the FREE LABOR? Or are you gonna drive the birth control truck for free? Or will you work in the birth control store and give your labor away without a paycheck?

How old are you?!!!

Probably older than you I'm guessing.

 

[Clementine]

People change when they understand that they will pay the price for their decisions. Now, there is welfare and other freebies. None of them are worried because if they get pregnant, they won't have to finish school or work. That is a lure to many.

And they think abortions, without knowledge or consent from parents, is an easy out. So, they take chances because they think others will make their problems disappear. If they believed that they would be in a bind, they would probably buy the pills themselves or just say no. Pills are cheap. Why aren't these kids going to their parents? Maybe because the left has made them believe that the state is more responsible for them and they show it by making laws that say teachers or others can help teens get abortions without parents being notified. That sends the message that they should hide things from parents. Maybe if the kids had to talk to parents, they would prevent it in the first place or have the parents pay, as they should.

Some parents seem to have embraced the idea that it's government's responsibility to take care of them and their children. These are the ones who always wait for others to solve their problems and provide for them and their children.

As the left has pushed for more free birth control, the problem has escalated. It's no coincidence. People are adapting to the thought of nanny government providing for them no matter what they do. The more the left has 'helped' people, the worse the problem has become. Giving more free stuff isn't going to encourage people to grow up.

 

[yiostheoy]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Abstinence would kill your social life and no boyz would ask you out again.

What planet do you live on?

 

[yiostheoy]

The Federal and the various State constitutions provide that Government should "promote the general welfare" of The People.

Thus in my nonpartisan Utopia, birth control and abortions to the 7th month would be paid by the State or Fed's.

Beyond the 7th month, abortion would be illegal and some other social solution would be required.

Jeeze, if a female has had 7 months to think about whether she wants to abort or not, she should have made up her mind already BEFORE the 7th month begins.

 

[Vastator]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

All the more reason to find out where those unwanted children are draining the taxpayer coffers, and cut them off.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

Woah. So getting pregnant means one is a whore? Seriously?

Depends entirely on whether or not the whore in question is married.

I look at this from a public health/cost perspective. Whether you like it or not - unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies in particular COST society. Prevention is relatively inexpensive compared to the social cost of unwanted and teen pregnancies. And it seems to work.

So yes, you can go on about personal responsibility and I'm all for that except it really doesn't work well in reality. I'm totally for education, teaching them about personal responsibility, helping them understand the costs to them of unprepared motherhood - but just in case, let's also give them birth control because young people are young people and if, for whatever reason, they fail to meet the morality standards you demand - at least let's not have them become pregnant.

They shouldn't COST SOCIETY, they should cost the whore in question, since it was partly her decision, and the walking dong that failed to control himself. It works just fine. If some whore lacks self control, that shouldn't be the problem of her tax-paying neighbor, it should be HER problem, and the problem of the walking dong that is ALSO responsible for their stupid decision.

Oh, you don't seem to understand, I don't demand any moral standard, the vast majority of people are stupid and lack morals. I expect nothing from humans in general, they exist almost entirely to fail your expectations, and to take for themselves. They are selfish creatures who, when an opportunity presents itself, will make whatever stupid decisions are available. No, what I expect is for every human being to be responsible for the decisions they make, and the consequences that result from said decision, regardless of how dire. The government is not responsible, their tax-paying neighbors are not responsible, THEY are responsible, as in the individuals who failed to control themselves, lacked foresight, and all around are stupid people.

Off topic .....I sometimes worry Pumpkin is growing up to fast.
No insult intended to you Pumpkin and I'm really inspired that we have youth in America that actually understand politricks.
I just hope you dont eschew the other things in your life as much as I admire your current stance.

 

[Coyote]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.