Why the fight against Birth Control?

[yiostheoy]

Yet that doesn't apparently work well in the larger population or we wouldn't have the problems we do.

I'll add when it comes to sex, I don't believe that birth control alone is the answer - it goes hand in hand with education, particularly with young people. But freely available birth control does make a difference.

Mother Nature's baby-making instincts usually trump education too.

 

[WillowTree]

mmm

You notice Coyote has not produced a single solitary item that she thinks an adult human being should be responsible for. Not one!

You haven't asked.

Only about four times!

Must have missed in the dozens of postings that contain little more than insults. I tend to ignore those.

An adult human should be responsible their own choices.

That doesn't mean you abandon them when they screw up.

We also live in a world where a person's bad choices can effect others around them. Bad decisions or just bad luck have a cost to everyone. I'd rather go the route of prevention then spend time going on about how they should all be personally responsible. In the end - they still have babies, they still have abortions, and we still have teen mothers who screwed up.

I do not believe I personally insulted you, unless disagreeing is taken as an insult. So, the only responsible adults you wish to place responsibility on is the taxpayer. Correct?

 

[koshergrl]

Oh well, the point is moot.

All that shit is going away. Federally funded everything is going away. Watch the numbers of single parents, stds, and abortion plummet.

Because it will happen. It's amazing how much more cautious people are about fucking morons when they are faced with the possibility of having to endure the consequences.

 

[Vastator]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decisions. Then they will make better decisions in the future. That's how life, and learning work. Its not fucking rocket science.

And if those consequences cost you? For example paying for welfare, child assistance programs, foster care, or higher abortion rates? Or you just say screw them, let the kids starve and that is that?

I don't care what happens to them or their kids, as long as I don't have to pay for it.

I care for them, and I am willing to help them. In my own way, to the degree I choose.

I myself would be more inclined to help voluntarily on a case by case basis, as I see fit. But that choice has been taken from me by entitlment parasites. So fuck em'.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

Of course nothing is free, why don't you get that we realize that?

Some things are worth paying for. I don't need birth control. I don't have a child to be educated or vaccinated. But I'm not crying about having to pay for it.

Why do you think it is the taxpayer's responsibility? Where will it end? Is there an end? Do liberals ever take responsibility for their choices or is it the taxpayers who must always foot the bill?

I foot the bill for educating other people's kids

Do conservatives ever take responsibility for their choices...?

Why can't you answer the question? People already get education, housing, food, utilities, phones, now you want be? Tell me. Is there a limit? Ever?

You know I am as conservative as they come.
But as far as BC goes we should hand it out like skittles at a Traygone protest.
In fact I think the gov should hand it out for free and those who have children and expect our tax dollars to raise them should be told to fuck off.

 

[koshergrl]

Yet that doesn't apparently work well in the larger population or we wouldn't have the problems we do.

I'll add when it comes to sex, I don't believe that birth control alone is the answer - it goes hand in hand with education, particularly with young people. But freely available birth control does make a difference.

Mother Nature's baby-making instincts usually trump education too.

My grandma had her first child at 16. Her formal education ended after 8th grade. And I would pit her education against any 19 year old graduate in the country today.

That's going to change as well. Because we're going to stop funding the Dept. of Disinformation..I mean Education. All those stupid programs that have taken the place of teaching...those are going away, never to return.

 

[WillowTree]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decisions. Then they will make better decisions in the future. That's how life, and learning work. Its not fucking rocket science.

And if those consequences cost you? For example paying for welfare, child assistance programs, foster care, or higher abortion rates? Or you just say screw them, let the kids starve and that is that?

So if a woman gets free birth control then we are no longer responsible for any other expenses she may have? I think I could agree with that.

 

[WillowTree]

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

Of course nothing is free, why don't you get that we realize that?

Some things are worth paying for. I don't need birth control. I don't have a child to be educated or vaccinated. But I'm not crying about having to pay for it.

Why do you think it is the taxpayer's responsibility? Where will it end? Is there an end? Do liberals ever take responsibility for their choices or is it the taxpayers who must always foot the bill?

I foot the bill for educating other people's kids

Do conservatives ever take responsibility for their choices...?

Why can't you answer the question? People already get education, housing, food, utilities, phones, now you want be? Tell me. Is there a limit? Ever?

You know I am as conservative as they come.
But as far as BC goes we should hand it out like skittles at a Traygone protest.
In fact I think the gov should hand it out for free and those who have children and expect our tax dollars to raise them should be told to fuck off.

I do not think Coyote will let you get away with that. I' LOL ask her.

 

[Coyote]

Oddly enough, that doesn't seem reflected in pregnancy statistics.

Exactly "free" birth control has nothing to do with personal responsibility.

But you far left drones do not care for that, you want the government to dictate your lives to you!

I'm less interested in "personal responsibility" then I am in reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion. You can lecture all you want on personal responsibility but in the end, when you are faced with the long term social costs of unwanted children, teen mothers who drop out of school and perpetrate the cycle of single teenage mothers, personal responsibility doesn't count for shit.

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

 

[Coyote]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

Let them suffer the consequences of their bad decisions. Then they will make better decisions in the future. That's how life, and learning work. Its not fucking rocket science.

And if those consequences cost you? For example paying for welfare, child assistance programs, foster care, or higher abortion rates? Or you just say screw them, let the kids starve and that is that?

So if a woman gets free birth control then we are no longer responsible for any other expenses she may have? I think I could agree with that.

I think our level of responsibility depends on a lot of different factors. I'm all for reducing it by less expensive preventative measures.

 

[MarathonMike]

If a woman gets pregnant while using a condom, she should name the kid Houdini !!

Better yet, pill AND condom.

The Catholic Church is the main opponent of birth control.

The Protestants as well as Catholics are opposed to abortion.

They call it murder.

Murder is a statutory felony stipulated as enumerated with elements of proof in Federal, State, and Foreign law.

It pertains to the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought.

A fetus is not a human being, at least not until about the 7th month when it is viable outside of the womb.

Until the 7th month a fetus is just a parasitic growth inside a female's womb.

Removing parasites is everyone's right, male or female, old or young. This notion is self evident and as such a-priori.

Birth control is the prevention of such a parasite from attaching.

Sort of like insect repellant.

And I quote "Until the 7th month a fetus is just a parasitic growth inside a female's womb.

Removing parasites is everyone's right, male or female, old or young. This notion is self evident and as such a-priori."

Are you being serious? You view an unborn child at 7 months a parasite? Like a leech or a tick?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

 

[Kosh]

Exactly "free" birth control has nothing to do with personal responsibility.

But you far left drones do not care for that, you want the government to dictate your lives to you!

I'm less interested in "personal responsibility" then I am in reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion. You can lecture all you want on personal responsibility but in the end, when you are faced with the long term social costs of unwanted children, teen mothers who drop out of school and perpetrate the cycle of single teenage mothers, personal responsibility doesn't count for shit.

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

Yes that is Europe not America!

Another far left drone failed post!

Just admit you have failed!

 

[Coyote]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

Woah. So getting pregnant means one is a whore? Seriously?

I look at this from a public health/cost perspective. Whether you like it or not - unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies in particular COST society. Prevention is relatively inexpensive compared to the social cost of unwanted and teen pregnancies. And it seems to work.

So yes, you can go on about personal responsibility and I'm all for that except it really doesn't work well in reality. I'm totally for education, teaching them about personal responsibility, helping them understand the costs to them of unprepared motherhood - but just in case, let's also give them birth control because young people are young people and if, for whatever reason, they fail to meet the morality standards you demand - at least let's not have them become pregnant.

 

[Coyote]

I'm less interested in "personal responsibility" then I am in reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion. You can lecture all you want on personal responsibility but in the end, when you are faced with the long term social costs of unwanted children, teen mothers who drop out of school and perpetrate the cycle of single teenage mothers, personal responsibility doesn't count for shit.

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

Yes that is Europe not America!

Another far left drone failed post!

Just admit you have failed!

Dude. That was America.

 

[Clementine]

So, no free birthcontrol. What are your suggestions for reducing unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies and abortion then?

Just "personal responsibility"? Perhaps you can show how well that has worked in reality.

The *unwanted pregnancy* rate is higher now than it was pre-pill.

As is the abortion rate.

So stop with the drivel about how the pill and abortion prevent unwanted pregnancies and abortion.

The problem is our changing culture. The hippies in the 60's promoted free love and then a series of entertainers, like Madonna, glamorizing sluts. It has an impact. It was all about removing the stigma of sleeping around. And when parents bought into all that crap, they fail to teach their children how to make choices in their own best interests. The way the left still goes out of their way to ensure that young people don't have to take responsibility for their actions doesn't help. The left laughed at those teaching abstinence as if it were an impossible goal. It's not. It's good to make them at least think twice before jumping into bed. Then there are those who see having a baby as a means of getting welfare and it likely sounds good to some teens who haven't been taught responsibility. Personal responsibility and knowing you pay the price for your own decisions is the biggest deterrent to being stupid.

Bottom line is that we are treating them like children and going out of our way to save them from their own stupidity. It can't work.

The problem has gotten worse with all the talk of entitlement, free birth control, etc. Clearly, it's not working.

 

[Yarddog]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

i don't see anything wrong with it. At least it prevents abortions. It is relatively inexpensive so I doubt making it free for everyone would make much difference. I think it's mostly laziness or inconvenience that keeps many people from using it. Though they may blame having to pay for it because they probably don't want to admit they didnt want to stop what they were doing to go buy some. I'm pretty sure they don't have a problem paying for their cigaretts and beer though

 

[yiostheoy]

And I quote "Until the 7th month a fetus is just a parasitic growth inside a female's womb.

Removing parasites is everyone's right, male or female, old or young. This notion is self evident and as such a-priori."

Are you being serious? You view an unborn child at 7 months a parasite? Like a leech or a tick?

I view 7 months as the Scientific cut-off point.

AT 7 months the fetus can survive outside the womb.

BEFORE 7 months it cannot.

Ergo it is a parasite until 7 months, at which time it can be removed (evicted) and gestated to its completion in a hospital facility.

It is too bad that societies do not give 7 month fetuses the rights of human beings. But that is a separate political issue.

 

[Kosh]

Without people taking personal responsibility, nothing will change. You are saying that the only way to save people from themselves is to offer them something for free. Should we take turns going to their homes to make sure they take the pills, too?

Except things do change.

In countries where birth control is readily available - abortion rates have gone DOWN. So have teen pregnancy rates. Isn't THAT taking some personal responsibility?

Birth control is readily available in our country. And so is abortion.

And the rates for unwanted pregnancies, unwed mothers, abortion AND stds skyrocketed the second they became readily available here.

Strange. In other countries, most notably Europe - abortion rates and teen pregnancy rates went down when contraception was freely available.

In terms of here - the pill became along with the sexual revolution, free love and all that jazz, and then the legalization of abortion. Since 1990, teen pregnancy and abortion rates have declined to a 40 year low.

According to Leveling the Playing Field: The Promise of Long-Acting Reversible Contraceptives for Adolescents

The long-term decline in teen pregnancy appears to have been driven primarily by improved use of contraception. In other words, adolescents seem to be practicing contraception more effectively, and their actions are paying off in lower pregnancy rates, and lower birth and abortion rates, as well.​

Yes that is Europe not America!

Another far left drone failed post!

Just admit you have failed!

Dude. That was America.

Wrong! It based on numbers in Europe!

Just admit you failed!

Just admit you want the government to force women to take birth control so they can be submissive to men.

 

[Vastator]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

You're misusing the term "free", and the government shouldn't be using other people's money to buy things for lazy people in the first place. It's not the government's job to provide healthcare, let alone contraception.

Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it

When someone makes a decision, they are accepting the consequences of that decision. If they can't afford a child, or don't want one, then they shouldn't be sleeping with anyone. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't be a whore. Can't afford contraception? You can't afford to be a whore. The fact is that abstinence is completely realistic, but people are stupid. People should have to live with the consequences of their own stupidity.

Woah. So getting pregnant means one is a whore? Seriously?

I look at this from a public health/cost perspective. Whether you like it or not - unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies in particular COST society. Prevention is relatively inexpensive compared to the social cost of unwanted and teen pregnancies. And it seems to work.

So yes, you can go on about personal responsibility and I'm all for that except it really doesn't work well in reality. I'm totally for education, teaching them about personal responsibility, helping them understand the costs to them of unprepared motherhood - but just in case, let's also give them birth control because young people are young people and if, for whatever reason, they fail to meet the morality standards you demand - at least let's not have them become pregnant.

Costs society... There you go. Thats the problem. Remove the cost to society, and place the responsibility on the actors involved. That's the solution. In fact that solution benefits more people, than your solution of burdening the many for the benefit of one.