Why the money system is flawed and why the debt cannot be paid off even if they want to?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well for one thing it proves that all dollar transactions have no actual value

I get plenty of value from my dollar transactions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Funding the budget would consist of all three, tax revenues, sales of bonds, and printed cash. The printed cash would reduce the need to borrow money, not eliminate it entirely.

What is your formula for calculating how much printed money to add each year?
What happens if you print too much?

 

[justoffal]

Well there is interest on every dollar printed that is greater than sums money in circulation the debt.

In other words the debt is greater than the money in circulation.

So let me ask this....if as we already know...all dollar transactions are intrinsically valueless and proceed solely on the promissory speculation that one day the debt will be erased...can the Central Bank or the Treasury Department suddenly declare all transfers of property based on the dollar transactions invalid in lieu of real value? This has been nagging at me for some time.

 

[Parker99]

Has America's Empire Of Money Reached The Endgame?​

Friday, Jan 05, 2024 - 10:00 PM
Authored by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,
We did it Joe!
It took a tremendous push down the stretch, but the U.S. national debt was able to hit the 34 trillion dollar mark before the end of 2023.
Nations all over the globe are starting to move away from using the U.S. dollar in international trade, and they are becoming a lot more hesitant to buy our debt.
You can only borrow and spend so much before the entire Ponzi scheme collapses, and at this moment we are more than 34 trillion dollars in debt…

US national debt has reached a record high – hitting $34 trillion for the first time in history.
Data published by the Treasury Department Tuesday showed that outstanding federal borrowing soared to $34.001 trillion on December 29, just weeks ahead of Congress deadlines for new federal funding plans.
The staggering figure, which is a major point of contention between Republicans and Democrats, is equal to $101,233 in federal debt for every person in America, according to the Peter G. Peterson Foundation.

So if there are four people living in your household, your share of the national debt is more than $400,000.
And every day the debt gets even larger. As Wolf Richter has pointed out, the size of the national debt has increased by 2.5 trillion dollars in just the last seven months…

The total US national debt spiked by $1.0 trillion in 15 weeks since September 15, to $34.0 trillion, according to the Treasury Department’s figures this afternoon. In the seven months since the debt ceiling was lifted, the national debt spiked by $2.5 trillion.
These are huge gigantic numbers that are piling up as a result of the incredible hard-to-fathom daredevil reckless shake-your-head deficit spending by Congress.

Overall, the U.S. national debt has grown by $6.25 trillion since Joe Biden entered the White House.
It took the first 225 years of U.S. history for the U.S. national debt to reach the 6 trillion dollar mark, and now we have added more than 6 trillion dollars to the debt in less than 3 years.
This is what the endgame looks like.
We are in a debt spiral that is totally out of control, and there is no way that this story is going to end well

 

[Parker99]

Of course much of the nation is already drowning in debt. According to one recent survey, only about half the country will be able to pay off their December credit card balances in full…

Only half of America’s credit card customers believe they can pay off their December balance in full, according to an industry index, signaling a low ebb in “credit card confidence” as the nation emerges from the holidays.
The LendingTree Credit Card Confidence Index, a monthly survey published since 2018 by the personal finance site, dipped to 51% in December, an all-time low.
In a nationally representative survey of 1,514 cardholders, only 51% voiced confidence that they could pay off their card balance this month. In November, the Confidence Index stood at 58%.

 

[expat_panama]

Funding the budget would consist of all three, tax revenues, sales of bonds, and printed cash. The printed cash would reduce the need to borrow money, not eliminate it entirely.

Of course we got to remember that of those 3 methods, the printing of new cash can lead to inflation, which is why more than 90% of the new currency is preplacement bills. Something else, let's both keep in mind that most of the new money is created by private banks when they loan out money to private borrowers.

 

[noonereal]

It's an inherent flaw with any usury (interest). The aggregate obligation (principal & interest) far exceeds the whole set of available money tokens. In other words, the money needed for all to pay their creditors DOES NOT EXIST.
Look at the USA's national debt.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
NATIONAL DEBT = $32.726 trillion dollars
(Debt per citizen = $97,606 dollars)
INTEREST = $664.93 billion dollar bills

Federal Reserve Balance Sheet: Factors Affecting Reserve Balances - H.4.1 - November 16, 2023
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Aug. 23, 2023
Currency in circulation . . . 2,328,554 millions (2.3 trillions)

[Note: “Dollar bills” being debt, are part of the 32.7 T national debt. They cannot grow without an increase in the debt. Debt cannot pay debt, having a minus value. Even if the dollar bills could, there isn't enough of them.]

US Population = 335,145,075
Currency (per capita) = $6,947.89 dollar bills.
Discrepancy : $6,947 - $97,606 = -90,659 (shortfall)

This problem extends to all private debt, as well. Outstanding obligations far exceed the volume and value of circulating medium. This is partly masked by the preponderance of "electronic" money transfers. If everyone tried to "cash out" the system would implode, and folks would be fortunate to get microcents on the dollar bill.

This is a wildly ignorant post.

 

[Flopper]

Of course we got to remember that of those 3 methods, the printing of new cash can lead to inflation, which is why more than 90% of the new currency is preplacement bills. Something else, let's both keep in mind that most of the new money is created by private banks when they loan out money to private borrowers.

The federal reserve does not rely on the printing of currency to increase or decrease the money supply. As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars. Most all of this new currency goes to replaced damaged or lost currency which averages about 7 billion a year. A few billion dollars a year the treasury prints would have almost no impact on or 40 trillion dollar economy.

There are a number of ways the Federal Reserve uses to expand or contract the money supply to simulate or depress economic growth but
printing currency is not one of them.

Currency Print Orders

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

 

[expat_panama]

Lol.....it's amazing that the whole system still exists. As long as everyone is working with equally worthless fiat I suppose one can actually buy and sell. What will it look like when the whole thing is digital?

fwiw, it's already all gone digital. The vast majority of U.S. money is just bits roaring thru a computer cpu.

OK, so you still call U.S. money "worthless fiat" w/ your words and your actions tell me that you know very well that it's actually worth a lot.

 

[justoffal]

fwiw, it's already all gone digital. The vast majority of U.S. money is just bits roaring thru a computer cpu.

OK, so you still call U.S. money "worthless fiat" w/ your words and your actions tell me that you know very well that it's actually worth a lot.

Well it has implied value for now

 

[Flopper]

What is your formula for calculating how much printed money to add each year?
What happens if you print too much?

Currency flows back and forth between local banks and reginal banks .The treasury prints money throughout the year in response to orders from the regional banks. As their stock of currency decreases, they order more from the treasury. I don't think their is a set amount as to what the treasury can print.

 

[expat_panama]

The federal reserve does not rely on the printing of currency to increase or decrease the money supply. As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars. Most all of this new currency goes to replaced damaged or lost currency which averages about 7 billion a year. A few billion dollars a year the treasury prints would have almost no impact on or 40 trillion dollar economy.

There are a number of ways the Federal Reserve uses to expand or contract the money supply to simulate or depress economic growth but
printing currency is not one of them.

View attachment 891011

Currency Print Orders

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

You know it & I know it. Seems not many more folk understand this, Toddsterpatriot does ofcourse...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The federal reserve does not rely on the printing of currency to increase or decrease the money supply. As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars. Most all of this new currency goes to replaced damaged or lost currency which averages about 7 billion a year. A few billion dollars a year the treasury prints would have almost no impact on or 40 trillion dollar economy.

There are a number of ways the Federal Reserve uses to expand or contract the money supply to simulate or depress economic growth but
printing currency is not one of them.

View attachment 891011

Currency Print Orders

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars.

You should recheck that graph, it doesn't say what you think it says.

 

[Flopper]

As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars.

You should recheck that graph, it doesn't say what you think it says.

The title which is Historical Fiscal Print Orders and the legend is omitted. The colors represent the various denominations of currency printed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The title which is Historical Fiscal Print Orders and the legend is omitted. The colors represent the various denominations of currency printed.

As you can see from the graph below the amount of currency printed each year varies from about 5 to 8 billion dollars.

^false

 

[Woodznutz]

Of course we got to remember that of those 3 methods, the printing of new cash can lead to inflation, which is why more than 90% of the new currency is preplacement bills. Something else, let's both keep in mind that most of the new money is created by private banks when they loan out money to private borrowers.

Money that they borrow from the Fed Reserve. Infusing cash directly reduces the need to borrow.

 

[Woodznutz]

What is your formula for calculating how much printed money to add each year?
What happens if you print too much?

No exact formula, just replace some loans with cash, such as certain appropriations for government funded public works, some defense contracts. You don't increase the amount of money, you just don't 'borrow' it through the sale of bonds. The money supply remains the same without the debt, which itself is inflationary.

 

[expat_panama]

Money that they borrow from the Fed Reserve. Infusing cash directly reduces the need to borrow.

There is no "Office of Infusement" at the Fed's main building in Wash. DC where anyone can walk in and say "Yo! I want to be INFUSED!".

What happens is the Fed lowers interest rates (a lot of rates they can control) and that means banks can loan out more money. The banks loan out money that depositors think is sitting in their accounts but it's not, it's going out to borrowers. That's ok because when the depositors find out the bank pays them INTEREST$$$ extra --,money that was never deposited but instead it's a nice earned premium from the bank --remember the bank is charging the borrowers big bucks so the banks can give their depositors a cut.

Everyone's happy.

However if there too much of this then we can have inflation, whereupon the Fed RAISES rates and shrinks the money supply --removing inflation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No exact formula, just replace some loans with cash, such as certain appropriations for government funded public works, some defense contracts. You don't increase the amount of money, you just don't 'borrow' it through the sale of bonds. The money supply remains the same without the debt, which itself is inflationary.

If you don't increase it by buying bonds, how do you decrease it if you print too much?
Is debt more or less inflationary than printing?

 

[Parker99]

page one of thread

It's an inherent flaw with any usury (interest). The aggregate obligation (principal & interest) far exceeds the whole set of available money tokens. In other words, the money needed for all to pay their creditors DOES NOT EXIST.
Look at the USA's national debt.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
NATIONAL DEBT = $32.726 trillion dollars
(Debt per citizen = $97,606 dollars)
INTEREST = $664.93 billion dollar bills

Federal Reserve Balance Sheet: Factors Affecting Reserve Balances - H.4.1 - November 16, 2023
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Aug. 23, 2023
Currency in circulation . . . 2,328,554 millions (2.3 trillions)

[Note: “Dollar bills” being debt, are part of the 32.7 T national debt. They cannot grow without an increase in the debt. Debt cannot pay debt, having a minus value. Even if the dollar bills could, there isn't enough of them.]

US Population = 335,145,075
Currency (per capita) = $6,947.89 dollar bills.
Discrepancy : $6,947 - $97,606 = -90,659 (shortfall)

This problem extends to all private debt, as well. Outstanding obligations far exceed the volume and value of circulating medium. This is partly masked by the preponderance of "electronic" money transfers. If everyone tried to "cash out" the system would implode, and folks would be fortunate to get microcents on the dollar bill.

This is a wildly ignorant post.

I’m not sure what disability you may have, may be dyslexia, but can you get someone to post a reply to OP post on page one than this rant garbage post.

Do you have some thing to say to OP post on page one?