Why the money system is flawed and why the debt cannot be paid off even if they want to?

[Woodznutz]

My $20s are debt free, whether I paid my taxes or not.

Are you saying we should "infuse the economy" with more Fed created money?

Yup, by paying some government contracts with money right off the printing press thereby putting equity into the economy instead of debt. It be recovered later through taxation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yup, by paying some government contracts with money right off the printing press.

You wouldn't mind double digit inflation in exchange for a small reduction in the national debt?

 

[Woodznutz]

You wouldn't mind double digit inflation in exchange for a small reduction in the national debt?

It wouldn't contribute to inflation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It wouldn't contribute to inflation.

Why not?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yup, by paying some government contracts with money right off the printing press thereby putting equity into the economy instead of debt. It be recovered later through taxation.

Why do you feel printed money is "equity"?

You want to print a bunch of money and reduce the created money with higher taxes?

 

[Parker99]

How can you pay a debt with borrowed money? I borrow a dollar at 10% interest, where does the 10% come from? Gotta borrow another dollar at 10% interest.

And every year the government has to raise the debt ceiling.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How can you pay a debt with borrowed money? I borrow a dollar at 10% interest, where does the 10% come from? Gotta borrow another dollar at 10% interest.

And every year the government has to raise the debt ceiling.

Instead of borrowing to pay your interest, you might get a job.

 

[Woodznutz]

Why not?

It doesn't add any more money to the economy.

 

[expat_panama]

How can you pay a debt with borrowed money? I borrow a dollar at 10% interest, where does the 10% come from? Gotta borrow another dollar at 10% interest.

And every year the government has to raise the debt ceiling.

It's time to understand what the choices are.

One choice is to raise taxes to pay off the debt. This means the people borrow money at high interest to pay their taxes. The other choice is for the gov't to borrow money at low interest to pay off the debt. OK so the debt's increasing. So is the population and so is inflation. America is better off than it was a hundred years ago when it was better off than it was a hundred years before that.

Like it or not this is how the rest of the U.S. wants it and this is what we'll have to accept.

 

[Woodznutz]

Why do you feel printed money is "equity"?

You want to print a bunch of money and reduce the created money with higher taxes?

Equity is ownership. If the money is debt free, you own it, you don't owe it.

No need to raise taxes. Introducing debt free money generates more productivity in the economy, which means more tax revenue, which in turn can mean less borrowing.

 

[expat_panama]

It doesn't add any more money to the economy.

hold on there. you suggested...

...paying some government contracts with money right off the printing press...

We need to understand that removing limits on the money supply with more "money right off the printing press" will definitely increase inflation.

 

[justoffal]

It's an inherent flaw with any usury (interest). The aggregate obligation (principal & interest) far exceeds the whole set of available money tokens. In other words, the money needed for all to pay their creditors DOES NOT EXIST.
Look at the USA's national debt.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
NATIONAL DEBT = $32.726 trillion dollars
(Debt per citizen = $97,606 dollars)
INTEREST = $664.93 billion dollar bills

Federal Reserve Balance Sheet: Factors Affecting Reserve Balances - H.4.1 - November 16, 2023
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Aug. 23, 2023
Currency in circulation . . . 2,328,554 millions (2.3 trillions)

[Note: “Dollar bills” being debt, are part of the 32.7 T national debt. They cannot grow without an increase in the debt. Debt cannot pay debt, having a minus value. Even if the dollar bills could, there isn't enough of them.]

US Population = 335,145,075
Currency (per capita) = $6,947.89 dollar bills.
Discrepancy : $6,947 - $97,606 = -90,659 (shortfall)

This problem extends to all private debt, as well. Outstanding obligations far exceed the volume and value of circulating medium. This is partly masked by the preponderance of "electronic" money transfers. If everyone tried to "cash out" the system would implode, and folks would be fortunate to get microcents on the dollar bill.

BANG! THE HARD, UGLY TRUTH....NICE!

 

[Woodznutz]

hold on there. you suggested...

We need to understand that removing limits on the money supply with more "money right off the printing press" will definitely increase inflation.

The new money would be a fixed amount and part of the budget. Also noteworthy is that money borrowed from the existing supply of money through the sale of notes and bonds isn't newly printed money, it is old money being recirculated.

 

[justoffal]

Well there is interest on every dollar printed

Show me.

In other words the debt is greater than the money in circulation.

So what? What do you feel that proves?

Well for one thing it proves that all dollar transactions have no actual value

 

[expat_panama]

The new money would be a fixed amount and part of the budget. Also noteworthy is that money borrowed from the existing supply of money through the sale of notes and bonds isn't newly printed money, it is old money being recirculated.

huh, earlier what I got from you is that you wanted to pay off debts w/ money off the printing press. Now what I'm getting is that you favor raising money by selling bonds. OK, so maybe you and I are on the same page now.

 

[expat_panama]

Well for one thing it proves that all dollar transactions have no actual value

You're absolutely right, your dollars are worthless. Please tell me where u are and I'll be ever so happy to carry out your trash for you. No charge.

 

[Woodznutz]

huh, earlier what I got from you is that you wanted to pay off debts w/ money off the printing press. Now what I'm getting is that you favor raising money by selling bonds. OK, so maybe you and I are on the same page now.

Funding the budget would consist of all three, tax revenues, sales of bonds, and printed cash. The printed cash would reduce the need to borrow money, not eliminate it entirely.

 

[justoffal]

You're absolutely right, your dollars are worthless. Please tell me where u are and I'll be ever so happy to carry out your trash for you. No charge.

Lol.....it's amazing that the whole system still exists. As long as everyone is working with equally worthless fiat I suppose one can actually buy and sell. What will it look like when the whole thing is digital?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It doesn't add any more money to the economy.

Creating money from thin air to spend into the economy does add more money to the economy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Equity is ownership. If the money is debt free, you own it, you don't owe it.

No need to raise taxes. Introducing debt free money generates more productivity in the economy, which means more tax revenue, which in turn can mean less borrowing.

I own the $20 in my wallet. It's not debt.

Introducing debt free money generates more productivity in the economy,

More inflation.