Why the tea party movement is so frightening...

[geauxtohell]

I don't believe in tax and spend, but I do believe in tax IF YOU DO spend. IF you start a war, you don't CUT taxes, you implement a war tax. You don't pay private soldiers 10 times what an enlisted man gets. You implement a draft, so everyone has skin in the game. And you DON'T try to pass the buck to the next administration by funding it through supplemental requests, with little time for congressional oversight or full disclosure of how the money is allocated. You OWN up to it.

.....

If you want to cut spending, then social programs are LAST on the list. And you only cut what won't cause harm to We, the people. Start with military waste and fraud.

And that about sums it up. Though I disagree on the issue of a draft. I think military conscription is morally reprehensible.

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't believe in tax and spend, but I do believe in tax IF YOU DO spend. IF you start a war, you don't CUT taxes, you implement a war tax. You don't pay private soldiers 10 times what an enlisted man gets. You implement a draft, so everyone has skin in the game. And you DON'T try to pass the buck to the next administration by funding it through supplemental requests, with little time for congressional oversight or full disclosure of how the money is allocated. You OWN up to it.

.....

If you want to cut spending, then social programs are LAST on the list. And you only cut what won't cause harm to We, the people. Start with military waste and fraud.

And that about sums it up. Though I disagree on the issue of a draft. I think military conscription is morally reprehensible.

EXACTLY...Military conscription is morally reprehensible. But it's no where near as morally reprehensible as WAR. A draft serves to hold people's feet to the fire. All the warmongers that called people that opposed the war in Iraq unAmerican never served or had any children that were serving. It's a lot easier to send someone else's kid off to die.

"Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Barbara Bush

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't believe in tax and spend, but I do believe in tax IF YOU DO spend. IF you start a war, you don't CUT taxes, you implement a war tax. You don't pay private soldiers 10 times what an enlisted man gets. You implement a draft, so everyone has skin in the game. And you DON'T try to pass the buck to the next administration by funding it through supplemental requests, with little time for congressional oversight or full disclosure of how the money is allocated. You OWN up to it.

.....

If you want to cut spending, then social programs are LAST on the list. And you only cut what won't cause harm to We, the people. Start with military waste and fraud.

And that about sums it up. Though I disagree on the issue of a draft. I think military conscription is morally reprehensible.

EXACTLY...Military conscription is morally reprehensible. But it's no where near as morally reprehensible as WAR. A draft serves to hold people's feet to the fire. All the warmongers that called people that opposed the war in Iraq unAmerican never served or had any children that were serving. It's a lot easier to send someone else's kid off to die.

"Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Barbara Bush

The leftwing wackos have had a field day since somebody dug up that pre-Iraq invasion quotation attributed to Barbara Bush and they gleefully post it every chance they get. Too bad they lack the intellectual honesty to put it into its full context and honestly portray it as she intended it. At least Snopes did:
snopes.com: Barbara Bush 'Beautiful Mind' Quote

 

[gslack]

Here's an idea...I want to give you a golden opportunity...you pick a topic and we'll debate it...this way you can show everybody how smart you are and how dumb I am....

I'll be waiting............................................................

Quick social lesson.... If ya are in a debate and then ya suddenly challenge the person you are debating to another debate to show how tough/good/smart/brilliant you are; it means you just made an ass of yourself and need to save face....

This is a debate, and so far all you have done is insult people and show your ass... I gave back what you tried to give, don't cry because your game was weak...

You can keep projecting or select a topic. I read your sophomoric emote and had to respond in kind. My response was concise. The teabaggers have earned that moniker, and so have you...

Nah we saw what happened... You wanted to go find a way to save face.... All your pick a topic nonsense; I already did, this one...

Aww now I have a sophomoric emote... How quaint.... Here is another one crybaby...

 

[gslack]

WHERE were these teabaggers when Bush was in office??? OH, they LOVED him!

We were all there and though many of us appreciated President Bush in some ways, we were mad as hell at him in others such as socialization of medicine creating another huge entitlement, his energy policy, his liberal illegal immigrant policy, his failure to rein in irresponsible spending intiated and passed by his own party and the opposing party, etc..

The straw that broke the camel's back of course was TARP and all of us were finally fed up, mad as hell, and ready to take to the streets brandishing angry signs over that. But President Bush was in his last months of office and President Obama was solemnly and oh so sincerely promising to rein in the irresponsible spending, restore fiscal sanity, balance the budget, reduce the deficits, pay down the debt, etc. etc. etc. So we waited for him to save us from the excesses of the previous eight years.

It was all lies of course. And when that became obvious via the pork laden appropriations bill passed early on, the stimulus package, the takeover of financial institutions and major U.S. industries in a way that protected those who created the problem and corrected none of the problems, takeover of the U.S. healthcare system, and budgets that exacerbated a deficit approaching the entire GDP, THAT's when the Tea Partiers were born.

Republican, Democrat, Independent, nobody cared whose ox was being gored. They were all culpable and they were all guilty and we wanted them to wake up and fix it or get out of the way and make room for an elected leadership who would.

You can continue to try to cast the Tea Party movement as partisan which only speaks to your own partisanship or perhaps ignorance of what you speak. But the Tea Partiers are not partisan at all. They are anything but.

It amazes me how ignorant the right is. There is no adult thinking going on. TARP, the Stimulus Bill and loans to GM and Chrysler were NOT policy decisions based on ideology, they were based on REALITY. If the financial institutions had been allowed to fail, it would have sent this country into a economic tailspin that would have wiped out this nation and take every American's retirement account and 401K with it. Economists from BOTH sides of the political spectrum concurred that both were a necessary evil. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to fail, not only thousands of auto workers would have hit the public dole, it would have wiped out suppliers to not only GM and Chrysler, but foreign manufacturers in the USA. All told, about 3 million workers would have hit the public dole.

Health care reform started out with proposals of strong progressive reforms like single payer or a public option. The further it moved away from progressive reform, the less effective it became. It was torpedoed by a combination of powerful insurance lobbyists and Republicans that parroted Frank Luntz lies designed to kill any reform.

What amazes me the most, is there is NEVER a penny of human capital in any solution from the right. They always need human beings to just evaporate. Thankfully, enough adults with a conscience have prevented us from having to live and die through their simple minded and childish ideas.

And it amazes me how much your ignorant partisanship makes you blind to reality even when people tell you straight up.....

I am not a right winger, fool.... In fact until a year before the last election I was Democrat. Know what happened? I used my freaking head for a change.... You suffer from believing what they tell you. Well here is some reality for ya..

1. Healthcare is more about keeping Doctors and medical professionals and Pharmaceutical companies safe from having to charge themselves out of the professions than it ever will be about insuring people. Insuring people was a way to sell it. Fact is the biggest problem facing the medical industries were rising insurance costs on both ends of the spectrum. It wasn't about insuring the poor directly it was just a nice way to pull the heart strings.

Not only insurance costs to the end user, or companies for their employees, but costs for medical malpractice insurance. This was the next step in the system they started with the patient bill of rights under Bush. That bill had a framework making it more difficult to sue for malpractice by making HMO's a much more viable alternative than simple insurance. That way instead of insurance and medical pros being separate entities in all cases and bound to seek their own best interests. They could merge and work as a unit. This would lead to far less frivolous lawsuits, much more responsible settlements, and made it very difficult to sue for malpractice. If the insurer was in a deal with certain medical pros, and their insurance only paid for those medical pros; they function in effect as one unit. making a lawsuit for malfeasance or malpractice much more difficult.

This latest Healthcare bill was the next logical step. We would have gotten it anyway. Don't buy into all the BS, this was coming and no way around it. They had to keep doctors in the field. Malpractice insurance costs were skyrocketing with every single lawsuit. Doctors were opting to go into research and other fields rather than medical application. Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

2. NAFTA, CAFTA, and all those wonderful trade agreements which sold out the American working class come from both sides... Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.. He sold out the American worker for corporations and that fact is undeniable. That was about profits and nothing more, so you can take your "we are the good guys" BS and shove it....

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

4. The patriot act is nothing more than insurance for the government against its people. Both sides voted it in, and despite the left crying over it and playing the role all over the TV for 8 years, we still have it as it was... All their big talk about freedom and all of it means squat in reality. They have no intention of touching it, and thats not me saying it its their own actions..

The only real substantial difference in left or right is the right says "so what" and the left tries to pretend they are against it to the press... One is power mad and deliberate, and the other is power mad and a liar.. Take your pick....

This is too multi-dimensional for more than 87% of the public to bother with, so they vote the way a perceived better tells them. That 87% is you..... The 13% or so left over are the people who do not buy into the bullshit and want to see for themselves and make their own decisions. Thats not my bullshit its common knowledge any PR man could tell you.. Think I'm bullshitting you? Well then watch 5 minutes of ads on a TV or online and see for yourself. 87% of the people on this planet buy things and vote in agreement with their peers. And if you tell them their peers believe this way, than they will. Why? Because if the lions share of them get their opinions from the same magic box, and they mostly follow the trends of their peers, the majority will set the tone and you have just manufactured consensus or consent. 87% voting the way they are told that 87% is voting by the media, and it really is that simple.....

Now, I hope you can grasp some of this. And if you come back separating every other sentence like a douchebag again, we will know beyond all doubt you are part of the 87%...

 

[geauxtohell]

EXACTLY...Military conscription is morally reprehensible. But it's no where near as morally reprehensible as WAR. A draft serves to hold people's feet to the fire. All the warmongers that called people that opposed the war in Iraq unAmerican never served or had any children that were serving. It's a lot easier to send someone else's kid off to die.

"Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Barbara Bush

I agree with the sentiment, just not the methodology. The only thing American history has shown us about the draft is that the sons of the rich and powerful will find ways to avoid it (as they did in 1863 and 1967), the numbers will still need to be filled, and it will downskew the selection towards the poor and disadvantaged. It ends up doing the exact opposite of what it is intended to do. Few sons of the rich and powerful are idealistic enough to say "If I skip out of this, some poor bastard will go for me".

On the flip side, it's morally reprehensible to take someone who has no desire to kill, stick a rifle in their hands, and put them in a "kill or be killed" situation. It is also unfair to professional soldiers who don't want to be burdened with the un-motivated as those types of soldiers are dangerous in combat situations.

I think a more practical situation is to mandate an income tax hike prior to engaging in any hostilities (not just declared wars) to pay for it (or a fraction of it) up front. That will make people think twice about the matter. If you really want to strike a chord with Americans, don't guilt them. Hit them in the wallet.

 

[geauxtohell]

Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

What the hell are you talking about? Medical school and residency slots have remained fixed for decades and every year every single chair in medical school is filled and every residency slot is also filled. In fact, some poor bastards don't even match and there is an absurd number of FMG (foreign medical graduates) also competing for residency slots. Medical school admissions have skyrocketed over the past decades as well. There hasn't been a "decline" in the number of medical school graduates to any degree for any reason, not the least of which is "insurance costs".

If you are talking about a shortage of general practitioners, that's a separate issue and also has little to do with insurance. Too many Doctors are just specializing out of general practice.

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

Utter bullshit that is right up there with the rest of the conspiracy theories that permeate the conspiracy zone. You should take this b.s. over there. How is the U.S. going to get a cut out of a deal that involves Turkministan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India?

BTW, we didn't go into Afghanistan because the people were being brutalized. We went in because they refused to give up AQ. We automatically inherit "reconstruction" when we invade any nation.

 

[gslack]

Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

What the hell are you talking about? Medical school and residency slots have remained fixed for decades and every year every single chair in medical school is filled and every residency slot is also filled. In fact, some poor bastards don't even match and there is an absurd number of FMG (foreign medical graduates) also competing for residency slots. Medical school admissions have skyrocketed over the past decades as well. There hasn't been a "decline" in the number of medical school graduates to any degree for any reason, not the least of which is "insurance costs".

If you are talking about a shortage of general practitioners, that's a separate issue and also has little to do with insurance. Too many Doctors are just specializing out of general practice.

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

Utter bullshit that is right up there with the rest of the conspiracy theories that permeate the conspiracy zone. You should take this b.s. over there. How is the U.S. going to get a cut out of a deal that involves Turkministan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India?

BTW, we didn't go into Afghanistan because the people were being brutalized. We went in because they refused to give up AQ. We automatically inherit "reconstruction" when we invade any nation.

Why did your side tell us we were losing doctors if we didnt pass healthcare? We were bombarded with lists and stats up the wazoo all telling us europe makes more doctors and how much we suck in the medical profession...

Thats the problem with living in a bullshit fantasy world.. You forget which bullshit you used and how or why.... That was one of the gripes from the liberals on this and you dam well know it.....

The US isn't cutting the deal moron its universal... And ya better take your head out of MSNBC's ass and read something, because its common knowledge there is a pipeline deal in place. Its not a conspiracy theory tool, its a known fact and no one denies it. Only a true tool wouldn't know this..... We went in fro Al Qaeda? LOL thought you libs didnt believe that? Remember the cruel taliban? Yeah, we kicked them out dumazz.... We stayed and did that because they wanted freedom and all that happy rhetoric you guys lap up...

I rest my case... you are exactly as I said you were before and you just showed it. Another tool and mindless liberal sheep... Don't lift your head out of the chosen path, just keep marching fool...

Pipeline-stan: No Blood for Oil Pipeline Routes

The Pursuit of Black Gold: Pipeline Politics on the Caspian Sea [Rush Transcript; Federal News Service] - Council on Foreign Relations

Tomgram: Pepe Escobar, Welcome to Pipelineistan | TomDispatch

Asia Times Online :: Central Asian News and current affairs, Russia, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan

Want a pic to show what they are talking about tool?

Now, I am done with your ignorant bullshit... you don't know shit about this yet you try and claim i was spouting a conspiracy theory.... Grow the fuck up and read something not liberal approved first tool....

 

[geauxtohell]

The US isn't cutting the deal moron its universal... And ya better take your head out of MSNBC's ass and read something, because its common knowledge there is a pipeline deal in place. Its not a conspiracy theory tool, its a known fact and no one denies it. Only a true tool wouldn't know this.....

No fucking shit, jackass. I didn't deny that the pipeline deal is in place. It was in place under the Taliban. I am denying your massive mental leap from that factoid into causation for going to war in Afghanistan.

We went in fro Al Qaeda?

Uh, yeah. That was why SF was embedded with the Northern Alliance and little events like Anaconda went down. Or was that all just a ruse?

Remember the cruel taliban? Yeah, we kicked them out dumazz.... We stayed and did that because they wanted freedom and all that happy rhetoric you guys lap up...

Don't presume to lecture me on the ground realities of Afghanistan. I was there from March of '04 to March of '05. I would venture to say at that time, you were sitting at home watching your hairline recede.

Hey, maybe I'll just apply the "gslack debate standard":

"Until you go to Afghanistan, your are only getting biased reporting on it and are incapable of debating the issue logically."

I rest my case...

What fucking case? You still have done zilch to show that we invaded Afghanistan over the pipeline.

Want a pic to show what they are talking about tool?

Wow. A map of Afghanistan. Thanks, I had never seen one of those. Wow! It even has the gaslines drawn in! Surely this is inconclusive proof that the Afghanistan invasion was all about the pipeline.

BTW, with the exception of the CFR link, your sources are laughable. You piss and moan about my "biased news" and then have the moxie to link OPED from a blogger about "Pipeline-stan" or link to "oilempire.us"? What a fucking joke you are. Here's a hint: if the URL is itself biased, then the source is probably biased as well. Just some simple logic for you.

I still have seen you provide no credible evidence that we invaded Afghanistan to secure the pipeline deal that was already in place under the Taliban.

Now, I am done with your ignorant bullshit... you don't know shit about this yet you try and claim i was spouting a conspiracy theory.... Grow the fuck up and read something not liberal approved first tool....

You are spouting a conspiracy theory. Don't believe me? Put it to the taste test. Make a thread about how we invaded Afghanistan for the pipeline and see where it ends up.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why did your side tell us we were losing doctors if we didnt pass healthcare? We were bombarded with lists and stats up the wazoo all telling us europe makes more doctors and how much we suck in the medical profession...

Wow. That was a fancy attempt at slight of hand. Unfortunately, you just aren't that clever. ^ that is not what you said. \/ This is:

Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance...

The number of doctors we "make" in this country is relatively fixed and the bottle neck is on the number of residencies, which are always maxed out. It doesn't fluctuate with the politics of the day. Furthermore, when I applied to medical school about 50% of the applicants did not get in (which is the norm). The problem is not on the "supply and demand" side.

So, instead of whining about my "liberal sources", why don't you provide some of your own sources that show that we are producing less doctors than the norm and that it's all because of insurance companies.

Thats the problem with living in a bullshit fantasy world.. You forget which bullshit you used and how or why.... That was one of the gripes from the liberals on this and you dam well know it.....

LMAO. Yeah. I am the one living in "bullshit fantasy world". This thread basically consists of you tossing out your opinion and then refusing to support it.

 

[uscitizen]

Claiming the Tea party is Bush's party is YOUR idea of a thoughtful well reasoned post? And you claim THEY are idiots?

Every Tea Partier I personally know. Perhaps a dozen. Were avid Bush supporters to the end.

Where did I say they were idiots?

You label an entire movement because of a dozen people? Are you really that fucking stupid?

About forty percent of the tea partiers are either Democrats or Independents according to a poll done by David Winston, polling director of the Winston Group that did the poll for an education advocacy group. The Winston poll also says 80% of total Tea Party supporters dislike Obama's job performance.

Yeah those same dems that voted for Bush twice?

 

[Bfgrn]

And that about sums it up. Though I disagree on the issue of a draft. I think military conscription is morally reprehensible.

EXACTLY...Military conscription is morally reprehensible. But it's no where near as morally reprehensible as WAR. A draft serves to hold people's feet to the fire. All the warmongers that called people that opposed the war in Iraq unAmerican never served or had any children that were serving. It's a lot easier to send someone else's kid off to die.

"Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths...I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Barbara Bush

The leftwing wackos have had a field day since somebody dug up that pre-Iraq invasion quotation attributed to Barbara Bush and they gleefully post it every chance they get. Too bad they lack the intellectual honesty to put it into its full context and honestly portray it as she intended it. At least Snopes did:
snopes.com: Barbara Bush 'Beautiful Mind' Quote

Yea, in full context it only sounds half as aloof, callous, cold-hearted, detached and haughty. So maybe us 'leftwing wackos' should give her a pass...

Instead, let's hear what Mrs. FULL aloof, callous, cold-hearted, detached and haughty had to say about Katrina victims...

Comments about Hurricane Katrina victims by the mother of President George Bush have fuelled the ire of some Americans, who see the Bush family as out-of-touch patricians.

The refugees in Houston, Texas, were "underprivileged anyway" and life in the Astrodome sports arena is "working very well for them", former first lady Barbara Bush said in a radio interview.

"Almost everyone I've talked to says: 'We're going to move to Houston,' " Mrs Bush said late on Monday after visiting evacuees at the Astrodome with her husband, former president George Bush.

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this - this is working very well for them."

Her comments were aired on Marketplace, an American Public Radio show broadcast nationwide.

Barbara Bush comments on survivors spark outrage - World - smh.com.au

Our enemies...never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
George W. Bush

Our nation is somewhat sad, but we’re angry. There’s a certain level of blood lust, but we won’t let it drive our reaction. We’re steady, clear-eyed and patient, but pretty soon we’ll have to start displaying scalps.
George W. Bush

If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
George W. Bush

I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.
George W. Bush

If we don’t stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, we’re going to have a serious problem coming down the road.
George W. Bush

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction.
George W. Bush

 

[Foxfyre]

Well no way I would want to interrupt your little quote fest--all of them taken out of context--there. I notice none of them had anything whatsoever to do with the quote that you initially posted and tried to make look like something it wasn't.

I don't care to play that game. And I figure anybody who would approve of your doing that like what you're doing. Those who know better don't need to have it explained by me.

Do have a nice day.

 

[Bfgrn]

We were all there and though many of us appreciated President Bush in some ways, we were mad as hell at him in others such as socialization of medicine creating another huge entitlement, his energy policy, his liberal illegal immigrant policy, his failure to rein in irresponsible spending intiated and passed by his own party and the opposing party, etc..

The straw that broke the camel's back of course was TARP and all of us were finally fed up, mad as hell, and ready to take to the streets brandishing angry signs over that. But President Bush was in his last months of office and President Obama was solemnly and oh so sincerely promising to rein in the irresponsible spending, restore fiscal sanity, balance the budget, reduce the deficits, pay down the debt, etc. etc. etc. So we waited for him to save us from the excesses of the previous eight years.

It was all lies of course. And when that became obvious via the pork laden appropriations bill passed early on, the stimulus package, the takeover of financial institutions and major U.S. industries in a way that protected those who created the problem and corrected none of the problems, takeover of the U.S. healthcare system, and budgets that exacerbated a deficit approaching the entire GDP, THAT's when the Tea Partiers were born.

Republican, Democrat, Independent, nobody cared whose ox was being gored. They were all culpable and they were all guilty and we wanted them to wake up and fix it or get out of the way and make room for an elected leadership who would.

You can continue to try to cast the Tea Party movement as partisan which only speaks to your own partisanship or perhaps ignorance of what you speak. But the Tea Partiers are not partisan at all. They are anything but.

It amazes me how ignorant the right is. There is no adult thinking going on. TARP, the Stimulus Bill and loans to GM and Chrysler were NOT policy decisions based on ideology, they were based on REALITY. If the financial institutions had been allowed to fail, it would have sent this country into a economic tailspin that would have wiped out this nation and take every American's retirement account and 401K with it. Economists from BOTH sides of the political spectrum concurred that both were a necessary evil. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to fail, not only thousands of auto workers would have hit the public dole, it would have wiped out suppliers to not only GM and Chrysler, but foreign manufacturers in the USA. All told, about 3 million workers would have hit the public dole.

Health care reform started out with proposals of strong progressive reforms like single payer or a public option. The further it moved away from progressive reform, the less effective it became. It was torpedoed by a combination of powerful insurance lobbyists and Republicans that parroted Frank Luntz lies designed to kill any reform.

What amazes me the most, is there is NEVER a penny of human capital in any solution from the right. They always need human beings to just evaporate. Thankfully, enough adults with a conscience have prevented us from having to live and die through their simple minded and childish ideas.

And it amazes me how much your ignorant partisanship makes you blind to reality even when people tell you straight up.....

I am not a right winger, fool.... In fact until a year before the last election I was Democrat. Know what happened? I used my freaking head for a change.... You suffer from believing what they tell you. Well here is some reality for ya..

1. Healthcare is more about keeping Doctors and medical professionals and Pharmaceutical companies safe from having to charge themselves out of the professions than it ever will be about insuring people. Insuring people was a way to sell it. Fact is the biggest problem facing the medical industries were rising insurance costs on both ends of the spectrum. It wasn't about insuring the poor directly it was just a nice way to pull the heart strings.

Not only insurance costs to the end user, or companies for their employees, but costs for medical malpractice insurance. This was the next step in the system they started with the patient bill of rights under Bush. That bill had a framework making it more difficult to sue for malpractice by making HMO's a much more viable alternative than simple insurance. That way instead of insurance and medical pros being separate entities in all cases and bound to seek their own best interests. They could merge and work as a unit. This would lead to far less frivolous lawsuits, much more responsible settlements, and made it very difficult to sue for malpractice. If the insurer was in a deal with certain medical pros, and their insurance only paid for those medical pros; they function in effect as one unit. making a lawsuit for malfeasance or malpractice much more difficult.

This latest Healthcare bill was the next logical step. We would have gotten it anyway. Don't buy into all the BS, this was coming and no way around it. They had to keep doctors in the field. Malpractice insurance costs were skyrocketing with every single lawsuit. Doctors were opting to go into research and other fields rather than medical application. Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

2. NAFTA, CAFTA, and all those wonderful trade agreements which sold out the American working class come from both sides... Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.. He sold out the American worker for corporations and that fact is undeniable. That was about profits and nothing more, so you can take your "we are the good guys" BS and shove it....

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

4. The patriot act is nothing more than insurance for the government against its people. Both sides voted it in, and despite the left crying over it and playing the role all over the TV for 8 years, we still have it as it was... All their big talk about freedom and all of it means squat in reality. They have no intention of touching it, and thats not me saying it its their own actions..

The only real substantial difference in left or right is the right says "so what" and the left tries to pretend they are against it to the press... One is power mad and deliberate, and the other is power mad and a liar.. Take your pick....

This is too multi-dimensional for more than 87% of the public to bother with, so they vote the way a perceived better tells them. That 87% is you..... The 13% or so left over are the people who do not buy into the bullshit and want to see for themselves and make their own decisions. Thats not my bullshit its common knowledge any PR man could tell you.. Think I'm bullshitting you? Well then watch 5 minutes of ads on a TV or online and see for yourself. 87% of the people on this planet buy things and vote in agreement with their peers. And if you tell them their peers believe this way, than they will. Why? Because if the lions share of them get their opinions from the same magic box, and they mostly follow the trends of their peers, the majority will set the tone and you have just manufactured consensus or consent. 87% voting the way they are told that 87% is voting by the media, and it really is that simple.....

Now, I hope you can grasp some of this. And if you come back separating every other sentence like a douchebag again, we will know beyond all doubt you are part of the 87%...

Well, I've heard of people who jumped off the Titanic, but now I've met the 'Einstein' who 'used his head', swam out to the sinking vessel and jumped ON board...pea brain would be a major step up for you...

You have penchant for "KNOWING" other people's intentions. You may believe you are just more 'informed' than the next guy. The reality is you continue to 'emote', 'project' and provide concrete proof you are a right wing moron.

If your tiny little brain needs a one size fits all 'conspiracy theory' to explain away a very complex problem like skyrocketing health care costs, let's start at childhood. From an early age, we were all taught right from wrong. Ronbo Reagan, 30 years of Republican dominated legislation, economics and cultural dogma have delivered 'wrong' as now being LAWFUL. Doctors, insurance cartels, Wall Street bankers and corporate CEO's all got the 'memo'...sorry pal, looks like you were left off the list.

Here's your homework assignment, educate yourself on:
medical loss ratio
The Medical Malpractice Myth
Ronbo Reagan, the pied piper on the road to serfdom
Frank Luntz
Grover Norquist
Lee Atwater
Karl Rove
The Heritage Foundation
Koch Industries
Scaife Family Foundations

Get back to me when you have an adult brain...OK?

BTW..."Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.."

I DENY it...

NAFTA...North American Free Trade Agreement

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada.

 

[geauxtohell]

The Medical Malpractice Myth

As a med student, I take special interest in that one. All of my research into the matter shows that it's somewhat of a red herring. IMO, the medical profession uses this as a scapegoat issue to blame all the wrongs of medicine on.

It's absurd. They could outlaw all medical torts tonight and the same problems would exist tomorrow.

It's not a popular notion, but it's a logical one.

BTW, I am not fully up on my conspiracy lore: can you connect the dots for me on the logic behind going into Afghanistan over the pipeline deal? I mean, I think Michael Moore made a stink out of it, but I think Michael Moore is 90% full of shit and 10% decent.

Slacker could only provide links that were akin to "creative dreams" so, needless to say, the issue remains unexplained.

 

[gslack]

The US isn't cutting the deal moron its universal... And ya better take your head out of MSNBC's ass and read something, because its common knowledge there is a pipeline deal in place. Its not a conspiracy theory tool, its a known fact and no one denies it. Only a true tool wouldn't know this.....

No fucking shit, jackass. I didn't deny that the pipeline deal is in place. It was in place under the Taliban. I am denying your massive mental leap from that factoid into causation for going to war in Afghanistan.

We went in fro Al Qaeda?

Uh, yeah. That was why SF was embedded with the Northern Alliance and little events like Anaconda went down. Or was that all just a ruse?



Don't presume to lecture me on the ground realities of Afghanistan. I was there from March of '04 to March of '05. I would venture to say at that time, you were sitting at home watching your hairline recede.

Hey, maybe I'll just apply the "gslack debate standard":

"Until you go to Afghanistan, your are only getting biased reporting on it and are incapable of debating the issue logically."



What fucking case? You still have done zilch to show that we invaded Afghanistan over the pipeline.

Want a pic to show what they are talking about tool?

Wow. A map of Afghanistan. Thanks, I had never seen one of those. Wow! It even has the gaslines drawn in! Surely this is inconclusive proof that the Afghanistan invasion was all about the pipeline.

BTW, with the exception of the CFR link, your sources are laughable. You piss and moan about my "biased news" and then have the moxie to link OPED from a blogger about "Pipeline-stan" or link to "oilempire.us"? What a fucking joke you are. Here's a hint: if the URL is itself biased, then the source is probably biased as well. Just some simple logic for you.

I still have seen you provide no credible evidence that we invaded Afghanistan to secure the pipeline deal that was already in place under the Taliban.

Now, I am done with your ignorant bullshit... you don't know shit about this yet you try and claim i was spouting a conspiracy theory.... Grow the fuck up and read something not liberal approved first tool....

You are spouting a conspiracy theory. Don't believe me? Put it to the taste test. Make a thread about how we invaded Afghanistan for the pipeline and see where it ends up.

Why did you leave out my links tool??

Fucking little coward lying douchebag.... ya left out my links and then tried to pretend it was all my unfounded and unbacked claims..... Dude you are a liar...

Where is my links tool? Fucking busted yourself again just like you always do.... I didn't back my claims? HA! then why did you leave the evidence out? Unbelievable....

 

[gslack]

Why did your side tell us we were losing doctors if we didnt pass healthcare? We were bombarded with lists and stats up the wazoo all telling us europe makes more doctors and how much we suck in the medical profession...

Wow. That was a fancy attempt at slight of hand. Unfortunately, you just aren't that clever. ^ that is not what you said. \/ This is:

Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance...

The number of doctors we "make" in this country is relatively fixed and the bottle neck is on the number of residencies, which are always maxed out. It doesn't fluctuate with the politics of the day. Furthermore, when I applied to medical school about 50% of the applicants did not get in (which is the norm). The problem is not on the "supply and demand" side.

So, instead of whining about my "liberal sources", why don't you provide some of your own sources that show that we are producing less doctors than the norm and that it's all because of insurance companies.

Thats the problem with living in a bullshit fantasy world.. You forget which bullshit you used and how or why.... That was one of the gripes from the liberals on this and you dam well know it.....

LMAO. Yeah. I am the one living in "bullshit fantasy world". This thread basically consists of you tossing out your opinion and then refusing to support it.

Excuses excuses.... Dude everytime you get caught you give one excuse after another..

Want me to remind you liar?

You said in the very post I quoted earlier...

"Utter bullshit that is right up there with the rest of the conspiracy theories that permeate the conspiracy zone. You should take this b.s. over there. How is the U.S. going to get a cut out of a deal that involves Turkministan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India? "

Then you tried this little bunch of excuse making....

"No fucking shit, jackass. I didn't deny that the pipeline deal is in place. It was in place under the Taliban. I am denying your massive mental leap from that factoid into causation for going to war in Afghanistan. "


AH NO! you didn't liar! Fucking lying little weasel you are busted dude.. You know dam good and well what you meant douchebag.... you said;

"How is the U.S. going to get a cut out of a deal that involves Turkministan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India? "

Whats that tell ya tool? It tells me you didn't know about the Pipeline you piece of shit.... YOUR words punk own them....

And your little semantics excuse making over your sides argument regarding doctors is even more bullshit....

This has been one more example of you thinking you know more than you really do... You didn't know about the pipeline, and you didn't even remember the BS more doctors in europe excuse your own side used just a year ago.... You aren't even informed of your own sides bullshit how in the hell can you even pretend you know anything?

SHowed your ass again didn't ya dumbass.... Nice work...

And BTW, try and use two out of context quotes from me from two separate posts and pretend the contradict one another.... Thats a douchebag tactic and everyone knows it...

 

[gslack]

It amazes me how ignorant the right is. There is no adult thinking going on. TARP, the Stimulus Bill and loans to GM and Chrysler were NOT policy decisions based on ideology, they were based on REALITY. If the financial institutions had been allowed to fail, it would have sent this country into a economic tailspin that would have wiped out this nation and take every American's retirement account and 401K with it. Economists from BOTH sides of the political spectrum concurred that both were a necessary evil. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to fail, not only thousands of auto workers would have hit the public dole, it would have wiped out suppliers to not only GM and Chrysler, but foreign manufacturers in the USA. All told, about 3 million workers would have hit the public dole.

Health care reform started out with proposals of strong progressive reforms like single payer or a public option. The further it moved away from progressive reform, the less effective it became. It was torpedoed by a combination of powerful insurance lobbyists and Republicans that parroted Frank Luntz lies designed to kill any reform.

What amazes me the most, is there is NEVER a penny of human capital in any solution from the right. They always need human beings to just evaporate. Thankfully, enough adults with a conscience have prevented us from having to live and die through their simple minded and childish ideas.

And it amazes me how much your ignorant partisanship makes you blind to reality even when people tell you straight up.....

I am not a right winger, fool.... In fact until a year before the last election I was Democrat. Know what happened? I used my freaking head for a change.... You suffer from believing what they tell you. Well here is some reality for ya..

1. Healthcare is more about keeping Doctors and medical professionals and Pharmaceutical companies safe from having to charge themselves out of the professions than it ever will be about insuring people. Insuring people was a way to sell it. Fact is the biggest problem facing the medical industries were rising insurance costs on both ends of the spectrum. It wasn't about insuring the poor directly it was just a nice way to pull the heart strings.

Not only insurance costs to the end user, or companies for their employees, but costs for medical malpractice insurance. This was the next step in the system they started with the patient bill of rights under Bush. That bill had a framework making it more difficult to sue for malpractice by making HMO's a much more viable alternative than simple insurance. That way instead of insurance and medical pros being separate entities in all cases and bound to seek their own best interests. They could merge and work as a unit. This would lead to far less frivolous lawsuits, much more responsible settlements, and made it very difficult to sue for malpractice. If the insurer was in a deal with certain medical pros, and their insurance only paid for those medical pros; they function in effect as one unit. making a lawsuit for malfeasance or malpractice much more difficult.

This latest Healthcare bill was the next logical step. We would have gotten it anyway. Don't buy into all the BS, this was coming and no way around it. They had to keep doctors in the field. Malpractice insurance costs were skyrocketing with every single lawsuit. Doctors were opting to go into research and other fields rather than medical application. Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

2. NAFTA, CAFTA, and all those wonderful trade agreements which sold out the American working class come from both sides... Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.. He sold out the American worker for corporations and that fact is undeniable. That was about profits and nothing more, so you can take your "we are the good guys" BS and shove it....

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

4. The patriot act is nothing more than insurance for the government against its people. Both sides voted it in, and despite the left crying over it and playing the role all over the TV for 8 years, we still have it as it was... All their big talk about freedom and all of it means squat in reality. They have no intention of touching it, and thats not me saying it its their own actions..

The only real substantial difference in left or right is the right says "so what" and the left tries to pretend they are against it to the press... One is power mad and deliberate, and the other is power mad and a liar.. Take your pick....

This is too multi-dimensional for more than 87% of the public to bother with, so they vote the way a perceived better tells them. That 87% is you..... The 13% or so left over are the people who do not buy into the bullshit and want to see for themselves and make their own decisions. Thats not my bullshit its common knowledge any PR man could tell you.. Think I'm bullshitting you? Well then watch 5 minutes of ads on a TV or online and see for yourself. 87% of the people on this planet buy things and vote in agreement with their peers. And if you tell them their peers believe this way, than they will. Why? Because if the lions share of them get their opinions from the same magic box, and they mostly follow the trends of their peers, the majority will set the tone and you have just manufactured consensus or consent. 87% voting the way they are told that 87% is voting by the media, and it really is that simple.....

Now, I hope you can grasp some of this. And if you come back separating every other sentence like a douchebag again, we will know beyond all doubt you are part of the 87%...

Well, I've heard of people who jumped off the Titanic, but now I've met the 'Einstein' who 'used his head', swam out to the sinking vessel and jumped ON board...pea brain would be a major step up for you...

You have penchant for "KNOWING" other people's intentions. You may believe you are just more 'informed' than the next guy. The reality is you continue to 'emote', 'project' and provide concrete proof you are a right wing moron.

If your tiny little brain needs a one size fits all 'conspiracy theory' to explain away a very complex problem like skyrocketing health care costs, let's start at childhood. From an early age, we were all taught right from wrong. Ronbo Reagan, 30 years of Republican dominated legislation, economics and cultural dogma have delivered 'wrong' as now being LAWFUL. Doctors, insurance cartels, Wall Street bankers and corporate CEO's all got the 'memo'...sorry pal, looks like you were left off the list.

Here's your homework assignment, educate yourself on:
medical loss ratio
The Medical Malpractice Myth
Ronbo Reagan, the pied piper on the road to serfdom
Frank Luntz
Grover Norquist
Lee Atwater
Karl Rove
The Heritage Foundation
Koch Industries
Scaife Family Foundations

Get back to me when you have an adult brain...OK?

BTW..."Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.."

I DENY it...

NAFTA...North American Free Trade Agreement

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada.

All of your talk and all you did was confirm that Bill CLinton did ratify NAFTA just as I claimed......

above your cited article reads....

"The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada."

Whats that? it had to be ratified by whom? Who ratified it? Come on punk don't be weasel say it..... Bill Clinton ratified it...

And the fact it was both parties who did the deal only proves my point even further....Thats one reason for tea parties you fucking imbecile......

 

[gslack]

The Medical Malpractice Myth

As a med student, I take special interest in that one. All of my research into the matter shows that it's somewhat of a red herring. IMO, the medical profession uses this as a scapegoat issue to blame all the wrongs of medicine on.

It's absurd. They could outlaw all medical torts tonight and the same problems would exist tomorrow.

It's not a popular notion, but it's a logical one.

BTW, I am not fully up on my conspiracy lore: can you connect the dots for me on the logic behind going into Afghanistan over the pipeline deal? I mean, I think Michael Moore made a stink out of it, but I think Michael Moore is 90% full of shit and 10% decent.

Slacker could only provide links that were akin to "creative dreams" so, needless to say, the issue remains unexplained.

Well then why did you deliberately leave my links out if they were so laughable tool?

I gave you a wide range of independent links just so you couldn't claim i was using biased sources, and your excuse is they weren't biased sources? WTF dude you're an idiot....

Asia times online was one link...Asia Times Online :: Central Asian News and current affairs, Russia, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan

Funny but thats not right wing or a conspiracy site is it tool.... I think AsiaTimes will have a better and more neutral perspective on this than you and the lib media don't you.....

Another link you left out but talked about, was tomdispatch, a project from The Nation Institute

From their about us page...

"About The Nation Institute

A nonprofit media center, The Nation Institute was established to extend the reach of progressive ideas and strengthen the independent press. Our dynamic range of programs include a bestselling book publishing imprint, Nation Books; our award-winning Investigative Fund, which supports groundbreaking investigative journalism; our nationally televised town hall meetings and debates; the widely read and syndicated website TomDispatch; our internship program at The Nation magazine; and Journalism Fellowships that fund up to 25 high-profile reporters every year. Work produced by The Nation Institute has sparked Congressional hearings, new legislation, FBI investigations and the resignation of government officials, has changed the debate and has a regular impact on the most urgent social and political issues of our day.

Board of Trustees

Ellen Chesler
Ron Daniels
Howard Dodson
Nancy Dunlap
Paula Giddings
Danny Goldberg
David Jones
Jeffrey Levy-Hinte
Victor Navasky
Tim Robbins
Cynthia Ryan
Howard Shapiro
Domna Stanton
Catharine Stimpson
Rose Styron
Katrina vanden Heuvel
Davis Weinstock"

Fucking busted again being a liar....... my god man wtf is up with you?

And don't tell me you are a med student again... It ruins my faith in medical students... you may be a med student but you are an idiot and a liar, so its not exactly gonna save your ass now fool...

 

[Bfgrn]

And it amazes me how much your ignorant partisanship makes you blind to reality even when people tell you straight up.....

I am not a right winger, fool.... In fact until a year before the last election I was Democrat. Know what happened? I used my freaking head for a change.... You suffer from believing what they tell you. Well here is some reality for ya..

1. Healthcare is more about keeping Doctors and medical professionals and Pharmaceutical companies safe from having to charge themselves out of the professions than it ever will be about insuring people. Insuring people was a way to sell it. Fact is the biggest problem facing the medical industries were rising insurance costs on both ends of the spectrum. It wasn't about insuring the poor directly it was just a nice way to pull the heart strings.

Not only insurance costs to the end user, or companies for their employees, but costs for medical malpractice insurance. This was the next step in the system they started with the patient bill of rights under Bush. That bill had a framework making it more difficult to sue for malpractice by making HMO's a much more viable alternative than simple insurance. That way instead of insurance and medical pros being separate entities in all cases and bound to seek their own best interests. They could merge and work as a unit. This would lead to far less frivolous lawsuits, much more responsible settlements, and made it very difficult to sue for malpractice. If the insurer was in a deal with certain medical pros, and their insurance only paid for those medical pros; they function in effect as one unit. making a lawsuit for malfeasance or malpractice much more difficult.

This latest Healthcare bill was the next logical step. We would have gotten it anyway. Don't buy into all the BS, this was coming and no way around it. They had to keep doctors in the field. Malpractice insurance costs were skyrocketing with every single lawsuit. Doctors were opting to go into research and other fields rather than medical application. Remember the big hooplah over other countries making more doctors than we were a few years ago? yeah there was a reason for that, it was costs for insurance... But all you leftist twits saw from liberal media was it was due to a failed medical system... Failed because of rising costs but you weren't told that and god forbid one of your lazy asses had to go and look into it....

2. NAFTA, CAFTA, and all those wonderful trade agreements which sold out the American working class come from both sides... Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.. He sold out the American worker for corporations and that fact is undeniable. That was about profits and nothing more, so you can take your "we are the good guys" BS and shove it....

3. We are in Afghanistan because of the Ural mountains reserves... make no mistake on this, that is the only reason we are there. People are brutalized all over the planet everyday and we do not go in there guns blazing, and why not? Well its simple they don't all have rich mineral, oil and gas deposits waiting to be tapped next door, and they don't all have a pipeline deal waiting in the wings.

4. The patriot act is nothing more than insurance for the government against its people. Both sides voted it in, and despite the left crying over it and playing the role all over the TV for 8 years, we still have it as it was... All their big talk about freedom and all of it means squat in reality. They have no intention of touching it, and thats not me saying it its their own actions..

The only real substantial difference in left or right is the right says "so what" and the left tries to pretend they are against it to the press... One is power mad and deliberate, and the other is power mad and a liar.. Take your pick....

This is too multi-dimensional for more than 87% of the public to bother with, so they vote the way a perceived better tells them. That 87% is you..... The 13% or so left over are the people who do not buy into the bullshit and want to see for themselves and make their own decisions. Thats not my bullshit its common knowledge any PR man could tell you.. Think I'm bullshitting you? Well then watch 5 minutes of ads on a TV or online and see for yourself. 87% of the people on this planet buy things and vote in agreement with their peers. And if you tell them their peers believe this way, than they will. Why? Because if the lions share of them get their opinions from the same magic box, and they mostly follow the trends of their peers, the majority will set the tone and you have just manufactured consensus or consent. 87% voting the way they are told that 87% is voting by the media, and it really is that simple.....

Now, I hope you can grasp some of this. And if you come back separating every other sentence like a douchebag again, we will know beyond all doubt you are part of the 87%...

Well, I've heard of people who jumped off the Titanic, but now I've met the 'Einstein' who 'used his head', swam out to the sinking vessel and jumped ON board...pea brain would be a major step up for you...

You have penchant for "KNOWING" other people's intentions. You may believe you are just more 'informed' than the next guy. The reality is you continue to 'emote', 'project' and provide concrete proof you are a right wing moron.

If your tiny little brain needs a one size fits all 'conspiracy theory' to explain away a very complex problem like skyrocketing health care costs, let's start at childhood. From an early age, we were all taught right from wrong. Ronbo Reagan, 30 years of Republican dominated legislation, economics and cultural dogma have delivered 'wrong' as now being LAWFUL. Doctors, insurance cartels, Wall Street bankers and corporate CEO's all got the 'memo'...sorry pal, looks like you were left off the list.

Here's your homework assignment, educate yourself on:
medical loss ratio
The Medical Malpractice Myth
Ronbo Reagan, the pied piper on the road to serfdom
Frank Luntz
Grover Norquist
Lee Atwater
Karl Rove
The Heritage Foundation
Koch Industries
Scaife Family Foundations

Get back to me when you have an adult brain...OK?

BTW..."Clinton was the man behind NAFTA so don't even try and deny it.."

I DENY it...

NAFTA...North American Free Trade Agreement

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it. The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada.

All of your talk and all you did was confirm that Bill CLinton did ratify NAFTA just as I claimed......

above your cited article reads....

"The agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

Before the negotiations were finalized, Bill Clinton came into office in the U.S. and Kim Campbell in Canada, and before the agreement became law, Jean Chrétien had taken office in Canada."

Whats that? it had to be ratified by whom? Who ratified it? Come on punk don't be weasel say it..... Bill Clinton ratified it...

And the fact it was both parties who did the deal only proves my point even further....Thats one reason for tea parties you fucking imbecile......

It appears that either you don't read your own assertions, or you don't comprehend their meaning. YOU said: "Clinton was the man behind NAFTA

I will highlight the words you need look up in a dictionary...

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1991 between the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H.W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement

Yes, Clinton did ratify NAFTA, BUT, Clinton WASN'T the man behind NAFTA...President George H.W. Bush was the man behind NAFTA...................so don't even try and deny it..

You could try to make a case that Brian Mulroney or Carlos Salinas was really Bill Clinton incognito...