Will American ever become a Christian Theocracy?

[Intense]

George W. Bush has called Reconstruction-influenced theoretician Marvin Olasky “compassionate conservatism’s leading thinker,” and Olasky served as one of the president’s key advisers on the creation of the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Bush also invited Reconstructionist Jack Hayford, a key figure in the Promise Keepers men’s group, to give the benediction at his first inaugural. Deposed House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, though his office won’t comment on his religious views, governs with what he calls a “biblical worldview”—one of Reconstruction’s signature phrases. And, for conspiracy buffs, two heavy contributors to the Chalcedon Foundation—Reconstruction’s main think tank—are Howard Ahmanson and Nelson Bunker Hunt, both of whose families played key roles in financing electronic voting machine manufacturer Election Systems & Software. Ahmanson is also a major sponsor of ultraconservative politicians, including California state legislator and 2003 gubernatorial candidate Tom McClintock.

Yet for all its influence, Reconstruction is almost invisible to the media and secular society. Atlanta is ground zero for most Reconstruction activity—home office to DeMar’s publishing house and home district to movement prophet Larry McDonald, who served four terms in Congress in the 1970s and 1980s—but the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has done only one major article on the movement. The entire Lexis-Nexis database includes only 43 articles from all of the U.S. media that make reference to Reconstruction, and only a handful of those explore the movement. “A hundred years ago, newspapers published the sermons preachers preached on Sunday,” notes Ed Larson, a University of Georgia historian. “Everyone knew what the Baptists believed, or the Lutherans or the Presbyterians. That’s no longer the case. And it has worked to the benefit of Reconstructionists as they doggedly pursued their goal.”

Reconstructionists aren’t shy about what exactly it is they are pursuing: “The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise,” Gary North, a top Reconstruction theorist, wrote in his 1989 book, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism. “Those who refuse to submit publicly…must be denied citizenship.”

Besides facilitating evangelism, Reconstructionists believe, government should largely be limited to building and maintaining roads, enforcing land-use contracts, and ensuring just weights and measures. Unions would not exist, and neither would unemployment benefits, Social Security, and environmental protection laws. Public schools would disappear; one of the movement’s great successes has been promoting homeschooling programs and publishing texts used by tens of thousands of homeschooling families. And, perhaps most importantly, the state is “God’s minister,” as DeMar puts it in Liberty at Risk, “taking vengeance out on those who do evil.” A major task for the government key Reconstructionists envision is fielding armies for conquest in the name of Jesus.
A Nation Under God | Mother Jones

You are getting into other beliefs and philosophies besides Christianity. these are complex issues with Merritt on all sides of the argument. How about sticking to the issues directly related to Theocracy.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's a movement whose followers played a significant role in the battle over Proposition 8, California's anti-same-sex marriage initiative, and Uganda's infamous proposed Anti-Homosexuality Law, more commonly associated with the Family, a religious network of elites drawn from the ranks of business and government throughout the world. But the movement we're imagining encompasses the humble and the elite alike, supporting a network of "prayer warriors" in all 50 states, within the ranks of the U.S. military, and at the far reaches of the globe -- all guided by an entire genre of books, texts, videos and other media.

Imagine that, and you've just dreamed up the New Apostolic Reformation, the largest religious movement you've never heard of.

NAR's videos, according to researcher Rachel Tabachnick, "demonstrate the taking control of communities and nations through large networks of 'prayer warriors' whose spiritual warfare is used to expel and destroy the demons that cause societal ills. Once the territorial demons, witches, and generational curses are removed, the 'born-again' Christians in the videos take control of society."

C Peter Wagner, who will be 80 this year, was a professor of church growth for 30 years at Fuller Theological Seminary, and promoted explosive mega-church growth. He has mainstreamed the concept of cell church structures, a strategy which began in Asia and South America and has resulted in congregations of tens of thousands. Cell churches are organized like a pyramid marketing scheme with small groups, usually with no more than 12, tasked with spinning off new cell groups and growing the church. This also resembles a military structure: Each cell group has a leader and lower level leaders answer to and are accountable to their superiors, on up the chain.

Such "spiritual accountability" schemes used to be called shepherding, but because of bad press and reports of coercive and abusive practices, it has been rebranded as "discipling." Lay people in cell groups perform many of the functions that would normally be carried out by pastors, and pastors become like corporate CEOs. This is how many of today's megachurches function. In his role as a church growth specialist, Wagner was able to repackage radical shepherding and cell structures as mainstream concepts for church growth.

These authoritarian strategies were further sanitized by Wagner's most famous student, Saddleback Church 's Rick Warren. Recently, while commenting about Uganda's proposed draconian anti-gay legislation, Warren denied that Wagner was his dissertation adviser. However, I have a copy of the dissertation which lists Wagner as "mentor," and also explains Warren's desire to rid churches of voting, boards, and democratic structure. In Wagner's 1999 book Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation is Shaking up the Church as We Know It, Wagner describes this radical re-structuring: "The traditional concept is that the congregation owns the church and that they hire the pastor to do their ministry for them. New apostolic churches, like Rick Warren's, turn this around 180 degrees…"

t r u t h o u t | Prayer Warriors and Palin Organizing Spiritual Warfare to Take Over America

 

[Immanuel]

News Flash: Liberals don't much care for Theocracy. Doesn't matter which flavor it come in. But feel free. Start a thread about the Saudis..the friend and backers of Republicans. Or even..Uganda...the Christian paradise (oh..I mean theocracy).

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

George W. Bush has called Reconstruction-influenced theoretician Marvin Olasky “compassionate conservatism’s leading thinker,” and Olasky served as one of the president’s key advisers on the creation of the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Bush also invited Reconstructionist Jack Hayford, a key figure in the Promise Keepers men’s group, to give the benediction at his first inaugural. Deposed House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, though his office won’t comment on his religious views, governs with what he calls a “biblical worldview”—one of Reconstruction’s signature phrases. And, for conspiracy buffs, two heavy contributors to the Chalcedon Foundation—Reconstruction’s main think tank—are Howard Ahmanson and Nelson Bunker Hunt, both of whose families played key roles in financing electronic voting machine manufacturer Election Systems & Software. Ahmanson is also a major sponsor of ultraconservative politicians, including California state legislator and 2003 gubernatorial candidate Tom McClintock.

Yet for all its influence, Reconstruction is almost invisible to the media and secular society. Atlanta is ground zero for most Reconstruction activity—home office to DeMar’s publishing house and home district to movement prophet Larry McDonald, who served four terms in Congress in the 1970s and 1980s—but the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has done only one major article on the movement. The entire Lexis-Nexis database includes only 43 articles from all of the U.S. media that make reference to Reconstruction, and only a handful of those explore the movement. “A hundred years ago, newspapers published the sermons preachers preached on Sunday,” notes Ed Larson, a University of Georgia historian. “Everyone knew what the Baptists believed, or the Lutherans or the Presbyterians. That’s no longer the case. And it has worked to the benefit of Reconstructionists as they doggedly pursued their goal.”

Reconstructionists aren’t shy about what exactly it is they are pursuing: “The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise,” Gary North, a top Reconstruction theorist, wrote in his 1989 book, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism. “Those who refuse to submit publicly…must be denied citizenship.”

Besides facilitating evangelism, Reconstructionists believe, government should largely be limited to building and maintaining roads, enforcing land-use contracts, and ensuring just weights and measures. Unions would not exist, and neither would unemployment benefits, Social Security, and environmental protection laws. Public schools would disappear; one of the movement’s great successes has been promoting homeschooling programs and publishing texts used by tens of thousands of homeschooling families. And, perhaps most importantly, the state is “God’s minister,” as DeMar puts it in Liberty at Risk, “taking vengeance out on those who do evil.” A major task for the government key Reconstructionists envision is fielding armies for conquest in the name of Jesus.
A Nation Under God | Mother Jones

You are getting into other beliefs and philosophies besides Christianity. these are complex issues with Merritt on all sides of the argument. How about sticking to the issues directly related to Theocracy.

Christian Reconstructionism is related to theocracy. It's the philosophical basis for Dominionism, the movement to make the US a Christian theocracy.

 

[Sky Dancer]

News Flash: Liberals don't much care for Theocracy. Doesn't matter which flavor it come in. But feel free. Start a thread about the Saudis..the friend and backers of Republicans. Or even..Uganda...the Christian paradise (oh..I mean theocracy).

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

I completely agree with you. Robertson, Reed and Dobson are fools, but they are powerful fools.

 

[Revere]

Bullshit. The court system more powerful.

 

[Revere]

George W. Bush has called Reconstruction-influenced theoretician Marvin Olasky “compassionate conservatism’s leading thinker,” and Olasky served as one of the president’s key advisers on the creation of the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Bush also invited Reconstructionist Jack Hayford, a key figure in the Promise Keepers men’s group, to give the benediction at his first inaugural. Deposed House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, though his office won’t comment on his religious views, governs with what he calls a “biblical worldview”—one of Reconstruction’s signature phrases. And, for conspiracy buffs, two heavy contributors to the Chalcedon Foundation—Reconstruction’s main think tank—are Howard Ahmanson and Nelson Bunker Hunt, both of whose families played key roles in financing electronic voting machine manufacturer Election Systems & Software. Ahmanson is also a major sponsor of ultraconservative politicians, including California state legislator and 2003 gubernatorial candidate Tom McClintock.

Yet for all its influence, Reconstruction is almost invisible to the media and secular society. Atlanta is ground zero for most Reconstruction activity—home office to DeMar’s publishing house and home district to movement prophet Larry McDonald, who served four terms in Congress in the 1970s and 1980s—but the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has done only one major article on the movement. The entire Lexis-Nexis database includes only 43 articles from all of the U.S. media that make reference to Reconstruction, and only a handful of those explore the movement. “A hundred years ago, newspapers published the sermons preachers preached on Sunday,” notes Ed Larson, a University of Georgia historian. “Everyone knew what the Baptists believed, or the Lutherans or the Presbyterians. That’s no longer the case. And it has worked to the benefit of Reconstructionists as they doggedly pursued their goal.”

Reconstructionists aren’t shy about what exactly it is they are pursuing: “The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise,” Gary North, a top Reconstruction theorist, wrote in his 1989 book, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism. “Those who refuse to submit publicly…must be denied citizenship.”

Besides facilitating evangelism, Reconstructionists believe, government should largely be limited to building and maintaining roads, enforcing land-use contracts, and ensuring just weights and measures. Unions would not exist, and neither would unemployment benefits, Social Security, and environmental protection laws. Public schools would disappear; one of the movement’s great successes has been promoting homeschooling programs and publishing texts used by tens of thousands of homeschooling families. And, perhaps most importantly, the state is “God’s minister,” as DeMar puts it in Liberty at Risk, “taking vengeance out on those who do evil.” A major task for the government key Reconstructionists envision is fielding armies for conquest in the name of Jesus.
A Nation Under God | Mother Jones

You are getting into other beliefs and philosophies besides Christianity. these are complex issues with Merritt on all sides of the argument. How about sticking to the issues directly related to Theocracy.

Christian Reconstructionism is related to theocracy. It's the philosophical basis for Dominionism, the movement to make the US a Christian theocracy.

But a dead, fringe movement nonetheless.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You are getting into other beliefs and philosophies besides Christianity. these are complex issues with Merritt on all sides of the argument. How about sticking to the issues directly related to Theocracy.

Christian Reconstructionism is related to theocracy. It's the philosophical basis for Dominionism, the movement to make the US a Christian theocracy.

But a dead, fringe movement nonetheless.

Very much alive. See Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

 

[Revere]

Christian Reconstructionism is related to theocracy. It's the philosophical basis for Dominionism, the movement to make the US a Christian theocracy.

But a dead, fringe movement nonetheless.

Very much alive. See Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

And you call THEM paranoid and delusional.

 

[Sallow]

Which American party is the staunchest defender of Islam and Islamist theocracies?

Hint.

Saudi Arabia is not an Islamist theocracy.

Hmm..is that Rocky hiding in the stove, rabbit?

There are several countries currently labeled theocratic, which are more closely ecclesiocratic. Iran, for instance, though it calls itself a religious democracy, is an ecclesiocracy. Elected officials answer to the Supreme Leader and the Guardian Council, always run by religious authorities. The religious authorities are definitely in charge, though elected officials participate in running the day-to-day practical aspects of Iran’s world. Saudi Arabia is closer to a true theocracy, but still something of an ecclesiocracy also, running their government according to Shari’a, the laws set forth for daily living in Islam. Further, Saudi uses the Qu’ran as its constitution.
What is a Theocracy?

 

[Revere]

Unless Beck and Palin can effect a turnover in the entire federal court system, you're swerving into crackpotism.

 

[Immanuel]

News Flash: Liberals don't much care for Theocracy. Doesn't matter which flavor it come in. But feel free. Start a thread about the Saudis..the friend and backers of Republicans. Or even..Uganda...the Christian paradise (oh..I mean theocracy).

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

I completely agree with you. Robertson, Reed and Dobson are fools, but they are powerful fools.

I don't think they are as powerful as you seem to think they are and every time they open their mouths about these kinds of things they lose more power.

I used to really enjoy listening to Focus on the Family, but then they took a very strong turn into GOP politics and now I can't stand to listen to them anymore. Robertson is a frigging fruitcake who seems to have lost the message of the Gospel somewhere; to him it is about power, money and the law. IOW he forgot the main theme of the Word of God, forgiveness of sins even the sin of being a Democrat or homosexuality... yes, there is room for forgiveness for those two sins! At least, I hope there is, because if there is not, then I have no hope for forgiveness when it comes to my own sins.

Immie

 

[Revere]

Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom. It tolerates Islam only to keep the religious zealots from completely blowing up.

 

[Revere]

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

I completely agree with you. Robertson, Reed and Dobson are fools, but they are powerful fools.

I don't think they are as powerful as you seem to think they are and every time they open their mouths about these kinds of things they lose more power.

I used to really enjoy listening to Focus on the Family, but then they took a very strong turn into GOP politics and now I can't stand to listen to them anymore. Robertson is a frigging fruitcake who seems to have lost the message of the Gospel somewhere; to him it is about power, money and the law. IOW he forgot the main theme of the Word of God, forgiveness of sins even the sin of being a Democrat or homosexuality... yes, there is room for forgiveness for those two sins! At least, I hope there is, because if there is not, then I have no hope for forgiveness when it comes to my own sins.

Immie

They're not powerful. She has a persecution complex.

 

[Sallow]

News Flash: Liberals don't much care for Theocracy. Doesn't matter which flavor it come in. But feel free. Start a thread about the Saudis..the friend and backers of Republicans. Or even..Uganda...the Christian paradise (oh..I mean theocracy).

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

Yes yes..don't look over there..guys..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)
Sex and power inside "the C Street House" - Republican Party - Salon.com
The C Street Family's Frequent Fliers Club | Mother Jones

Nothing to see here.

 

[Sallow]

Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom. It tolerates Islam only to keep the religious zealots from completely blowing up.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

I completely agree with you. Robertson, Reed and Dobson are fools, but they are powerful fools.

I don't think they are as powerful as you seem to think they are and every time they open their mouths about these kinds of things they lose more power.

I used to really enjoy listening to Focus on the Family, but then they took a very strong turn into GOP politics and now I can't stand to listen to them anymore. Robertson is a frigging fruitcake who seems to have lost the message of the Gospel somewhere; to him it is about power, money and the law. IOW he forgot the main theme of the Word of God, forgiveness of sins even the sin of being a Democrat or homosexuality... yes, there is room for forgiveness for those two sins! At least, I hope there is, because if there is not, then I have no hope for forgiveness when it comes to my own sins.

Immie

Thanks for your comment Immie. You're probably right that I worry more than I should about these groups. If all Christians were like you I'd have no cause for concern.

"Yesterday, we mentioned how Newt Gingrich and Jim Garlow's Renewing American Leadership (REAL) website is blatantly promoting Christian dominionism via "Pray and ACT," a movement spearheaded by Lou Engle and others in the religious right who are calling for the Christian takeover of "seven mountains" (or "spheres") of culture:

… we call on all faithful Christians to join us in the fight to defend life, protect and revitalize marriage, and preserve religious liberty and the rights of conscience. We must work tireless in all the “seven spheres of cultural influence:” (1) the home, (2) the church, (3) civil government / law / military, (4) business / technology, (5) education, (6) media, and finally (7) arts / entertainment / professional sports.

Kyle at Right Wing Watch sat through last Sunday's Pray and ACT conference in Washington that was aired on God.tv where Christian dominionism was advocated. His report is here. The speakers included, but were not limited to, Chuck Colson, who is pushing the "Manhattan Declaration," Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, and the Alliance Defense Fund.
http://www.goddiscussion.com/31519/dominionism-unleashed-at-pray-and-act-conference/

 

[Revere]

As long as the House of Saud gets what it wants, it will let the bottomfeeders have the religion they want.

There are no Imams or Ayatollahs pushing the royal family around like there is in Iran, whether its leaders are "elected or not."

 

[Sky Dancer]

As long as the House of Saud gets what it wants, it will let the bottomfeeders have the religion they want.

There are no Imams or Ayatollahs pushing the royal family around like there is in Iran, whether its leaders are "elected or not."

Point is I don't want to see theocracy in the US. I don't care if it's Muslims or Christians.

It's bad for the US.

 

[Immanuel]

News Flash: Liberals don't much care for Theocracy. Doesn't matter which flavor it come in. But feel free. Start a thread about the Saudis..the friend and backers of Republicans. Or even..Uganda...the Christian paradise (oh..I mean theocracy).

Newsflash: Christians don't care at all for the idea of a Theocracy.

Who's god am I going to have to worship if said Theocracy were instituted? Pat Robertson's? Lord help me! Mitt Romney's? Heck no! Teddy Kennedy's (and no, I am not speaking about the bottle)? No way.

As far as I am concerned anyone that believes that a person can be forced to worship the Lord understands no more than .5% of the Word of God, if that much. That includes Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and James Dobson if they truly believe such foolishness.

Immie

Yes yes..don't look over there..guys..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)
Sex and power inside "the C Street House" - Republican Party - Salon.com
The C Street Family's Frequent Fliers Club | Mother Jones

Nothing to see here.

Your first link goes no where... here is what comes up.

Did you mean: The Fellowship (Christian organization)
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And who the hell are these other two links to? "C Street" Family? Never heard of them and they don't appear to be Christian.

I was talking about people that purport to be Christian and to speak for Christians. If this so called "C Street Family" is on the lines of Pat Robertson, then I would say that they have the same problems as he does.

Immie