Will there be an honest post mortem analysis of this crisis?

[MarathonMike]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Hell no.

There will 500 books written on the whole fucking mess.

And they will be as jaded and biased as can be.

 

[OldLady]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

 

[Desperado]

Let think about this from past incidents:
Kennedy Assignation - honest post mortem analysis -No
Vietnam War - honest post mortem analysis -No
9/11- - honest post mortem analysis -No
So past history suggest there is no chance in hell

 

[bluzman61]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Unfortunately the word "honest" is completely foreign to our current mainstream media.

 

[bluzman61]

Let think about this from past incidents:
Kennedy Assignation - honest post mortem analysis -No
Vietnam War - honest post mortem analysis -No
9/11- - honest post mortem analysis -No
So past history suggest there is no chance in hell

Exactly! You hit the nail RIGHT on the head.

 

[night_son]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

There's no "we" only "us" and "them". We are the great Unwashed Masses—the receivers of plague, famine, oppression, jackboot to the face. "Them" are the Ruling Class—the givers of recession, plague, unemployment, economic collapse and those mighty stimulus checks. In our existence as the Unwashed it is our duty to obey, to cooperate, to ask no questions and expect no meaningful or truthful answers, got it?

No. No one will ever admit to the rest of us what really happened to cause or during the plague of 2019-2020. Speculation is running wild though and simple deductive reasoning seems to be the catchphrase of the day. I suggest we all use it. Additionally, by process of elimination one can quickly "get" the bigger picture, if one has eyes and can see.

There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see.
--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[bluzman61]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

There's no "we" only "us" and "them". We are the great Unwashed Masses—the receivers of plague, famine, oppression, jackboot to the face. "Them" are the Ruling Class—the givers of recession, plague, unemployment, economic collapse and those mighty stimulus checks. In our existence as the Unwashed it is our duty to obey, to cooperate, to ask no questions and expect no meaningful or truthful answers, got it?

No. No one will ever admit to the rest of us what really happened to cause or during the plague of 2019-2020. Speculation is running wild though and simple deductive reasoning seems to be the catchphrase of the day. I suggest we all use it. Additionally, by process of elimination one can quickly "get" the bigger picture, if one has eyes and can see.

There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see.
--Leonardo da Vinci

ANOTHER fantastic post. Thank you.

 

[there4eyeM]

Will there be an honest post mortem analysis of this crisis?
There will be endless talk, enough that "honest" will be impossible to extract (if this is not already the case).

 

[night_son]

 

[OldLady]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

 

[progressive hunter]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

do you really have to ask???

lives will be lost in more ways than by a flu that is only a real threat to the elderly,,,
not to mention the lively hoods of millions who have lost the jobs, business's and homes,,,

Coronavirus pandemic will cause global famines of 'biblical proportions,' UN warns

The world is facing multiple famines of "biblical proportions" in just a matter of months, the UN has said, warning that the coronavirus pandemic will push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation.

www.cnn.com

 

[OldLady]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

do you really have to ask???

lives will be lost in more ways than by a flu that is only a real threat to the elderly,,,
not to mention the lively hoods of millions who have lost the jobs, business's and homes,,,

Coronavirus pandemic will cause global famines of 'biblical proportions,' UN warns

The world is facing multiple famines of "biblical proportions" in just a matter of months, the UN has said, warning that the coronavirus pandemic will push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation.

www.cnn.com

Yes. I am looking forward to the day when we have enough answers to figure out what the best steps would have been and what would have been the least destructive way to stop this pandemic in its tracks.

I don't think you really have quite enough information yet to have completed an analysis.

 

[MeBelle]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

there will be good analyses done

 

[OldLady]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

there will be good analyses done

thanks.

 

[MarathonMike]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

there will be good analyses done

I really hope you are right. We desperately need the smartest people in the world drop the partisanship and egos and shine the harsh bright light on what happened and how we do better. We cannot do lock down 2.0 that is just a non-starter.

 

[OldLady]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Actually, there are a lot of people in this country more interested in saving lives than cheering on their political cause. There will be many analyses, like Sun Devil says, and some of them will be to defend one approach or the other. That is up to the reader to figure out.

What is sad is that there will be good analyses done and too many people will dismiss them as "biased" if the study doesn't agree with their opinion. I'd bet good money on that part.

MeBelle bluzman61 progressive hunter
What are you disliking about this post? You don't think that will happen, or what?

there will be good analyses done

I really hope you are right. We desperately need the smartest people in the world drop the partisanship and egos and shine the harsh bright light on what happened and how we do better. We cannot do lock down 2.0 that is just a non-starter.

I just looked up how many Americans have one of the six comorbidities that put them at risk. According to information from 2017, it is 45% of Americans!

Co-morbidities included cardiovascular disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), diabetes, asthma, hypertension, and/or cancer other than skin, based on data from China. Overall 45.4% (95% CI 45.1-45.7) of adults reported any of the 6 comorbidities,

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20043919v1

The older they are, the more likely to have one of the six. Now, there is no way you can keep that many people home. People over 65 only represent 13% of the US population, so even if you took out every single one of them, you'd still have 32% of Americans at risk.

You can't keep that many people home and function "normally." Can you? To me that seems like an awful lot of people. I was really surprised at the high number.

Of course, no doubt some of those six conditions are more risky than others. COPD would sure be #1, I'd think. Maybe some of them, like high blood pressure, wouldn't be so serious and they could go about their business. But still, when you take all the people with comorbidities and add in the people over 65 who are healthy (and there are some, even 80 and up), you've got a hell of a lot of people who would need to be actually isolated--and not in the half assed way we are doing it now, sending them all out to the drug store and grocery store every week. Nuh uh. To do it right, you've got to arrange to support them not sticking their nose outside their house for ANYTHING. Otherwise, you're pissing in the wind.

Take a look at the statistics in the introduction there. Think about whether this "isolating the at risk" would actually work.

 

[candycorn]

The USA and the world needs a thorough analysis of everything that went right and everything that went wrong related to CV-19. Will that happen? Is China REALLY going to be held accountable for launching this virus on the world while protecting their own country? Will we drill down to the specific causes for the devastation in the NorthEastern states? Will we get unbiased assessments of treatments such as hydroxychloroquine?

Unfortunately we don't have a time machine so we will never know how much the lock down actually helped in reducing case numbers and deaths. What is clear is the lockdown CAUSED massive collateral damage to our country and will continue to do so. This is too important for finger pointing and cover ups. We can't do another lock down so we had better analyze the data and get real answers. I just don't know how we are going to get that level of honesty.

Sure there will be. The spin will of course vilify whoever issues the report and the spin from the other side will praise those who issue the report. Look at this unfortunate crapolla:

Dr. Anthony Fauci has indeed violated the Hippocratic Oath

Part of the Classic Version of the Hippocratic Oath commands a doctor to “ … apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.” A Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath requires a doctor “… that I do not treat a...

www.usmessageboard.com

I think the winning position is to remember what was true before the crisis and know that it will be true after the crisis.
Such is our political realities.

What is truthful as far as the "collateral damage" is as follows.

• Set up an office to administer this program aside from all of the other functions. FEMA seems to be the logical choice. It will administer the aid.
• The Federal Government simply takes over the payroll of employees deemed non-essential by businesses for 90 days. Assess at the end of the 90 days.
• The Federal Government simply pays the minimum bills for the businesses (no profit to the business owner) that are shuddered for 90 days. Assess at the end of the 90 days.
• The Federal Government simply acts as THE authority issuing guidelines to the States on a medical emergency. Any crisis related funding to the States is contingent on their adoption of the guidelines. This would apply to testing, reporting, and mediation measures. This would last for 90 days. Assess at the end of 90 days.

The unsolvable problem is that the states can't agree on what is an essential business. How in the world is the local convenience store essential but the local pawn shop isn't? This will always be the remainder to an equation that has too many variables.

Will there be waste, fraud, and abuse? Sure. There will also be winners and losers. Businesses that were about to go under due to debt burden will have their debt paid for 90 days. People who were about to get fired or layed off anyway will have their paychecks for 90 days more. Contract workers will get screwed but contractors should understand that this is the nature of the beast. Oh well.

What this would do is get rid of the "Christmas tree" bills where the lawmakers hang "ornaments" on them to get funding for this or that or the other thing that will help their district or state. One of my favorite stats from the CARES act is that the banks that processed the loans made billions off of processing fees. The money wasn't theirs, the risk wasn't theirs, the repayment or non-repayment didn't affect them at all. They simply processed the loans. And the larger the loan, the greater the fee. So when they had to decide between processing a loan for a huge business and a mom and pop dry cleaner, the loan went to the large business.