Will We See Serial Killers in Heaven?

[Sunshine]

Most people think that Jesus taught if you just believe in him you will not be punished for your behaviors. I was taught that is not true. Matthew 24 talks of the faithful and unfaithful servant:

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That passage clearly says that unfaithful servants will be appointed a 'portion' with the hypocrites. Not an eternal hell, but I suppose enough to make one sorry for what he did that did not reflect well on the Master. So if you get to the pearly gates and walk in with Jeffrey Dahmer it is likely that you BOTH have had your 'portion with the hypocrites' already.

 

[Sunshine]

Serial Killer Jeffrey Dahmer: Christian in Heaven with Jesus - The Landover Baptist Church Forum

Will We See Serial Killers in Heaven?​

Its possible.

Very concise!

 

[Camp]

Ofcourse serial killers go to heaven. They are the ones you see hanging from body parts on tree limbs that you poke with sticks and throw stones at.

 

[Avatar4321]

Most people think that Jesus taught if you just believe in him you will not be punished for your behaviors. I was taught that is not true. Matthew 24 talks of the faithful and unfaithful servant:

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That passage clearly says that unfaithful servants will be appointed a 'portion' with the hypocrites. Not an eternal hell, but I suppose enough to make one sorry for what he did that did not reflect well on the Master. So if you get to the pearly gates and walk in with Jeffrey Dahmer it is likely that you BOTH have had your 'portion with the hypocrites' already.

You're correct. It's not true that just believing will keep us from being punished. Christ said that there were many that would call Him Lord who He would say He knew not.

I don't know Jeffrey Dahmer's heart or who he will become before the Final Judgment. As such, I am not going to render a judgment on His Eternal condition. I sincerely hope he has repented and come to Christ, but that's up to the Lord.

I figure there is no point wondering where he will end up. I just need to worry about myself and my family and those in my sphere of influence.

 

[Sunshine]

Most people think that Jesus taught if you just believe in him you will not be punished for your behaviors. I was taught that is not true. Matthew 24 talks of the faithful and unfaithful servant:

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That passage clearly says that unfaithful servants will be appointed a 'portion' with the hypocrites. Not an eternal hell, but I suppose enough to make one sorry for what he did that did not reflect well on the Master. So if you get to the pearly gates and walk in with Jeffrey Dahmer it is likely that you BOTH have had your 'portion with the hypocrites' already.

You're correct. It's not true that just believing will keep us from being punished. Christ said that there were many that would call Him Lord who He would say He knew not.

I don't know Jeffrey Dahmer's heart or who he will become before the Final Judgment. As such, I am not going to render a judgment on His Eternal condition. I sincerely hope he has repented and come to Christ, but that's up to the Lord.

I figure there is no point wondering where he will end up. I just need to worry about myself and my family and those in my sphere of influence.

Yes, he states that in Matthew 22 when he gives the parable of the wedding:

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

I think this is another parable about punishment.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Don't worry about it, AvgJ...you won't be there anyway.

Thing is, do we want him there? If he's our brother, and we do want him there, then the Bible tells us how to get him there:

If 2 or more pray, Christ shows up.
God withholds no good thing from His children.
The Holy Spirit convicts men's hearts for the Lord.

So, if 2 of us pray for our Father to send the Holy Spirit to transform Joe's heart, that he may see the Kingdom of God, and share in his inheritance, and lay his crown at Jesus' feet, I guarantee you, before Joe dies, he'll have a heart for Christ, because either the effectual fervent prayer of the righteous man availeth much, or our Father lied.

And Joe is one of God's favorite kids.

And all we have to do is How easy is that?
I'm a lazy Christian, I want God to do all the work. Just like He did for Adam.

 

[The Irish Ram]

(might want to put in a few good words for Cammmmmpbell while were at it. Just sayin....)

 

[Sunshine]

(might want to put in a few good words for Cammmmmpbell while were at it. Just sayin....)

He has to be one of the most bitter old codgers on the face of the earth. I don't know what God did to him to make him so bitter.

 

[skye]

Every single human being on this Earth will be forgiven at the end .... no matter how long it takes or how many hard lessons may be needed..... everyone.... up to the last soul..... he/she will have a whole Eternity to learn, to get into the right and narrow path, time is Infinite..... time has no hurry.

That is how I feel about it.... but then.... what do I know.

 

[Sunshine]

Every single human being on this Earth will be forgiven at the end .... no matter how long it takes or how many hard lessons may be needed..... everyone.... up to the last soul..... he/she will have a whole Eternity to learn, to get into the right and narrow path, time is Infinite..... time has no hurry.

That is how I feel about it.... but then.... what do I know.

You could be right. I recall reading Faust in college. Dr. Faust the unwitting pawn in a wager between Satan and God decides to have him a young chick he is lusting after. But he doesn't expect to love her. Which he does. In the end they were both redeemed. Man was made for God, not for Satan.

But I don't want to come back.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Serial Killer Jeffrey Dahmer: Christian in Heaven with Jesus - The Landover Baptist Church Forum

Will We See Serial Killers in Heaven?​

Its possible.

This is probably the most accurate answer of the thread.

Kudos! ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Don't worry about it, AvgJ...you won't be there anyway.

Thing is, do we want him there? If he's our brother, and we do want him there, then the Bible tells us how to get him there:

If 2 or more pray, Christ shows up.
God withholds no good thing from His children.
The Holy Spirit convicts men's hearts for the Lord.

So, if 2 of us pray for our Father to send the Holy Spirit to transform Joe's heart, that he may see the Kingdom of God, and share in his inheritance, and lay his crown at Jesus' feet, I guarantee you, before Joe dies, he'll have a heart for Christ, because either the effectual fervent prayer of the righteous man availeth much, or our Father lied.

And Joe is one of God's favorite kids.

And all we have to do is How easy is that?
I'm a lazy Christian, I want God to do all the work. Just like He did for Adam.

Favorite eh? Awesome!

You are one sweet soul, Irish Ram.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... There's a part of me that kinda hopes you're right.

 

[Caroljo]

If that happens to me, I will just assume that heaven is not owned by me and I don't make the rules. I'll leave all that up to the One who does own heaven and makes the rules. And you must understand that what is heaven to one person might actually be hell to another. I doubt that Dahmer would find me to be very stimulating company.

My own vision is that each person will have what they themselves envision to be heaven, so if noxious people are not part of your vision of heaven, you will not find yourself beset with noxious people. My own vision is sitting down at the dinner table once again with my husband and children. I am sure the table is waiting and he is there awaiting our arrival. That would be MY heaven. Should that not be their heaven, they would have their own separate heaven even though they are part of mine. It's complicated. But workable for Someone who is able to create a universe or two. I do not understand it all, but my imagination of it all is most comforting.

You are allowing yourself to be limited by your own understanding or lack thereof, and you are fearful of your own imagination. That makes me sad for you.

Other than my point missed, this is a beautiful post.

Heaven is customized. Nothing uncomfortable... nothing but personalized love.

I hope you're right.

To each his/her own!!​

I didn't miss your point. Your thinking is in fact most common amongst people. I have a friend who was a wild party animal her whole life up until about 4 years ago. Now she is a 'born again, Bible thumping, holy talking Christian.' She wears us all out with it. She partied for 61 years. I have served God and humanity my entire life. So have my other friends. If she gets the same reward we get, I and the rest of our group are going to be seriously pissed. Not that it will change anything. Or that it should, really. I don't want a little cabin in glory land, I want the mansion. But in reality, someone else's relation ship with God is between them and God, not between me and them or me and them and God.

If you look into the Egyptian mystery religion you will find it is comprised of the Hermetic teachings. That is what Jesus was teaching, the Egyptian mystery religion. He said, 'I show you a mystery.' And he taught in parables. One of the precepts of the Hermetic teaching is 'as above, so below; as below, so above.' He used the expression, 'on earth as it is in heaven.' If it is above as it is below, I would surmise that heaven will not be any more fair than earth is. Then again there is always the possibility that God merely the Anunnaki who came and genetically engineered us from apes to do their dirty work. The Bible does talk a lot about humans 'serving' God. As above so below; as below so above.

One of Jesus's parables was about the man that was hiring men to work for him....the men that started working early in the morning got paid the same amount as the ones that worked maybe an hour. They thought it wasn't fair. Most people would think that! But our ways isn't Gods way....we have to accept that. So we shouldn't let these things piss us off

 

[freedombecki]

I used to hate King David. Then one day at an adult church school one Sunday morning, I got it with both barrels for missing the point of King David's life on earth. For years after that I read and reread passages about King David and his Psalms. The one clear and shining thing about the man, aside from some egregious acts, was his true belief and allegiance to only God as his commanding officer. That's repeated over and over throughout his life--a heart that returns to God and is sorry for offending him whenever it was called to his attention how offensive he was to God and his fellows for this that or the other of his wrongful or silly deeds. He truly lamented his infirmities of body and mind. And he truly celebrated God as the giver of all good things to him and to his people. So much so that his snotty-nosed wife Michele was set aside by him forever when she mocked him for dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes, as I recollect. It was likely that Michele, Saul's daughter, couldn't give up cherishing David's , King Saul, who tried to kill him again and again because he was popular with the people and true to God. Saul wasn't true to God. He ended up failing trying to kill David. Yep. Dysfunctional families are not necessarily the product of poverty.

According to the Old Testament (1 Samuel 18:7):
It happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments. The women sang as they played, and said, "Saul has slain his thousands, And David his ten thousands." Then Saul became very angry, for this saying displeased him; and he said, "They have ascribed to David ten thousands, but to me they have ascribed thousands. Now what more can he have but the kingdom?"…

So if David was "dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes" it likely was to the accompaniment of women singing and dancing joyously to celebrate his success in slaying a large number of the enemy. As David was younger and more virile, compared to the older Saul, it's understandable that witnessing such a scene disturbed and frieghtened the old King.

Thanks, Bill. I'm pretty certain David seemed to have made a rip roaring fool of himself one time, but I do not associate that particular party with Saul, only his daughter Michelle (sp?). I could be wrong. If so, I apologize for faulty memory. I need to reread Kings and it's next on my nightly list. This may take some time.

 

[freedombecki]

I used to hate King David. Then one day at an adult church school one Sunday morning, I got it with both barrels for missing the point of King David's life on earth. For years after that I read and reread passages about King David and his Psalms. The one clear and shining thing about the man, aside from some egregious acts, was his true belief and allegiance to only God as his commanding officer. That's repeated over and over throughout his life--a heart that returns to God and is sorry for offending him whenever it was called to his attention how offensive he was to God and his fellows for this that or the other of his wrongful or silly deeds. He truly lamented his infirmities of body and mind. And he truly celebrated God as the giver of all good things to him and to his people. So much so that his snotty-nosed wife Michele was set aside by him forever when she mocked him for dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes, as I recollect. It was likely that Michele, Saul's daughter, couldn't give up cherishing David's , King Saul, who tried to kill him again and again because he was popular with the people and true to God. Saul wasn't true to God. He ended up failing trying to kill David. Yep. Dysfunctional families are not necessarily the product of poverty.

According to the Old Testament (1 Samuel 18:7):
It happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments. The women sang as they played, and said, "Saul has slain his thousands, And David his ten thousands." Then Saul became very angry, for this saying displeased him; and he said, "They have ascribed to David ten thousands, but to me they have ascribed thousands. Now what more can he have but the kingdom?"…

So if David was "dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes" it likely was to the accompaniment of women singing and dancing joyously to celebrate his success in slaying a large number of the enemy. As David was younger and more virile, compared to the older Saul, it's understandable that witnessing such a scene disturbed and frieghtened the old King.

[MENTION=24619]Bill Angel[/MENTION], it was a different time. I found a version of the story in the Second Book of Samuel:

2 Samuel 6: 14 - 23

14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.
17 And they brought in the ark of the Lord, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord.
18 And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of hosts.
19 And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.
23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

I'm pretty sure Saul was long gone by this particular time. Sorry for thinking the story was in the book of Kings earlier. Some of the stories are repeated, and one detail I recollect of putting Michal and her group in a place he never visited again, I cannot yet find. All Samuel tells is that she never had a child, with the strong implication she was shunned by King David for reprimanding him for the duration of their lives.

 

[Caroljo]

(might want to put in a few good words for Cammmmmpbell while were at it. Just sayin....)

He has to be one of the most bitter old codgers on the face of the earth. I don't know what God did to him to make him so bitter.

I doubt it was God, Cammmmpbell is just a weak person and was led astray.

 

[Bill Angel]

I used to hate King David. Then one day at an adult church school one Sunday morning, I got it with both barrels for missing the point of King David's life on earth. For years after that I read and reread passages about King David and his Psalms. The one clear and shining thing about the man, aside from some egregious acts, was his true belief and allegiance to only God as his commanding officer. That's repeated over and over throughout his life--a heart that returns to God and is sorry for offending him whenever it was called to his attention how offensive he was to God and his fellows for this that or the other of his wrongful or silly deeds. He truly lamented his infirmities of body and mind. And he truly celebrated God as the giver of all good things to him and to his people. So much so that his snotty-nosed wife Michele was set aside by him forever when she mocked him for dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes, as I recollect. It was likely that Michele, Saul's daughter, couldn't give up cherishing David's , King Saul, who tried to kill him again and again because he was popular with the people and true to God. Saul wasn't true to God. He ended up failing trying to kill David. Yep. Dysfunctional families are not necessarily the product of poverty.

According to the Old Testament (1 Samuel 18:7):
It happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments. The women sang as they played, and said, "Saul has slain his thousands, And David his ten thousands." Then Saul became very angry, for this saying displeased him; and he said, "They have ascribed to David ten thousands, but to me they have ascribed thousands. Now what more can he have but the kingdom?"…

So if David was "dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes" it likely was to the accompaniment of women singing and dancing joyously to celebrate his success in slaying a large number of the enemy. As David was younger and more virile, compared to the older Saul, it's understandable that witnessing such a scene disturbed and frieghtened the old King.

[MENTION=24619]Bill Angel[/MENTION], it was a different time. I found a version of the story in the Second Book of Samuel:

2 Samuel 6: 14 - 23

14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.
17 And they brought in the ark of the Lord, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord.
18 And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of hosts.
19 And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.
23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

I'm pretty sure Saul was long gone by this particular time. Sorry for thinking the story was in the book of Kings earlier. Some of the stories are repeated, and one detail I recollect of putting Michal and her group in a place he never visited again, I cannot yet find. All Samuel tells is that she never had a child, with the strong implication she was shunned by King David for reprimanding him for the duration of their lives.

I see your point. Here is a graphic depicting David dancing before the ark:
One can see the young women with their tambourines, while David is modestly dressed. In the Bible passage that you quoted (2 Samuel 6:20) the inference is that David danced immodestly (unclothed?).
But I admit to inferring from this scene what the scene was probably like when David celebrated his military successes while Saul was alive and feared David.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

We will NOT see "Special K" in heaven.

Cap'n Crunch is in dire peril, too.

Hell looms.

 

[freedombecki]

According to the Old Testament (1 Samuel 18:7):
It happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments. The women sang as they played, and said, "Saul has slain his thousands, And David his ten thousands." Then Saul became very angry, for this saying displeased him; and he said, "They have ascribed to David ten thousands, but to me they have ascribed thousands. Now what more can he have but the kingdom?"…

So if David was "dancing naked or near-naked in the streets in celebration of military victory over cruel foes" it likely was to the accompaniment of women singing and dancing joyously to celebrate his success in slaying a large number of the enemy. As David was younger and more virile, compared to the older Saul, it's understandable that witnessing such a scene disturbed and frieghtened the old King.

@Bill Angel, it was a different time. I found a version of the story in the Second Book of Samuel:

2 Samuel 6: 14 - 23

14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.
17 And they brought in the ark of the Lord, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord.
18 And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of hosts.
19 And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.
23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

I'm pretty sure Saul was long gone by this particular time. Sorry for thinking the story was in the book of Kings earlier. Some of the stories are repeated, and one detail I recollect of putting Michal and her group in a place he never visited again, I cannot yet find. All Samuel tells is that she never had a child, with the strong implication she was shunned by King David for reprimanding him for the duration of their lives.

I see your point. Here is a graphic depicting David dancing before the ark: View attachment 27077
One can see the young women with their tambourines, while David is modestly dressed. In the Bible passage that you quoted (2 Samuel 6:20) the inference is that David danced immodestly (unclothed?).
But I admit to inferring from this scene what the scene was probably like when David celebrated his military successes while Saul was alive and feared David.

He wore an ephod, which is a short linen apron. Could it be your well-covered picture was sanitized for young children in any given Church influenced by my Puritan ancestors who believed in modesty before children in accordance with the scriptures?

C. Malcom Power's David:

Michal truly was annoyed. David was furious with her, though, because his notion was that he was praising God in an honorable way by humiliating himself before God. I'm not sure I understood his viewpoint before reading several versions of the scripture.

 

[Sunshine]

@Bill Angel, it was a different time. I found a version of the story in the Second Book of Samuel:

2 Samuel 6: 14 - 23



I'm pretty sure Saul was long gone by this particular time. Sorry for thinking the story was in the book of Kings earlier. Some of the stories are repeated, and one detail I recollect of putting Michal and her group in a place he never visited again, I cannot yet find. All Samuel tells is that she never had a child, with the strong implication she was shunned by King David for reprimanding him for the duration of their lives.

I see your point. Here is a graphic depicting David dancing before the ark: View attachment 27077
One can see the young women with their tambourines, while David is modestly dressed. In the Bible passage that you quoted (2 Samuel 6:20) the inference is that David danced immodestly (unclothed?).
But I admit to inferring from this scene what the scene was probably like when David celebrated his military successes while Saul was alive and feared David.

He wore an ephod, which is a short linen apron. Could it be your well-covered picture was sanitized for young children in any given Church influenced by my Puritan ancestors who believed in modesty before children in accordance with the scriptures?

Well, everyone knows that the king and the guru always get the girls. So if you are not king, you better treat softly if you are the guru.