With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[The Rabbi]

Saigon cherry picks data and then repeats the same misinformation when called on it.
Europe does not have the same culture as America. Hell, America does not have the same culture as America. The culture in south Louisiana and Southern California are as different as anything.
He wants to compare apples to dog shit. The better comparison is apples to apples. And when you compare identical states before and after either strengthening or loosening gun laws you discover the laws have little effect on gun violence. Because...say it with me...criminals don't obey laws.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

When you wish to compare the US with Mexico - THAT is cherry picking.

When I suggest we compare the US with all other western countries, that is NOT cherry picking.

Try and post with a little honesty and intelligence. Just spouting nonsense and insults doesn't make for great debate.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

When you wish to compare the US with Mexico - THAT is cherry picking.

When I suggest we compare the US with all other western countries, that is NOT cherry picking.

Try and post with a little honesty and intelligence. Just spouting nonsense and insults doesn't make for great debate.

NO, I wish to compare the U.S. with the U.S. Every place that has relaxed gun laws has seen crimes involving guns decline.
You know nothing of honesty or intelligence. You get your butt handed to you with every post.

 

[Spoonman]

Saigon cherry picks data and then repeats the same misinformation when called on it.
Europe does not have the same culture as America. Hell, America does not have the same culture as America. The culture in south Louisiana and Southern California are as different as anything.
He wants to compare apples to dog shit. The better comparison is apples to apples. And when you compare identical states before and after either strengthening or loosening gun laws you discover the laws have little effect on gun violence. Because...say it with me...criminals don't obey laws.

the other key point he misses is that countries with strict gun laws have not reduced their homicides at a rate faster than the USA. we have achieved the same rate of reduction while adding significantly more guns

 

[Spoonman]

Rabbi -

When you wish to compare the US with Mexico - THAT is cherry picking.

When I suggest we compare the US with all other western countries, that is NOT cherry picking.

Try and post with a little honesty and intelligence. Just spouting nonsense and insults doesn't make for great debate.

NO, I wish to compare the U.S. with the U.S. Every place that has relaxed gun laws has seen crimes involving guns decline.
You know nothing of honesty or intelligence. You get your butt handed to you with every post.

 

[Saigon]

the other key point he misses is that countries with strict gun laws have not reduced their homicides at a rate faster than the USA. we have achieved the same rate of reduction while adding significantly more guns

Missing a point and undertanding why it is meaningless are not the same thing.

Actually, I did explain this before, but your maths didn't seem up to it.

I'll try again.

Two investors go to the market - one starts with €100,000 and loses €1,000. The other starts with €10,000 and loses €1,000.

Which investor performed better?

The US has been able to reduce its homicide rate by a similar number to the UK, because its homicide rate is so much massively higher to begin with.

The result is that the murder rate in the US is still massively higher.

 

[The Rabbi]

the other key point he misses is that countries with strict gun laws have not reduced their homicides at a rate faster than the USA. we have achieved the same rate of reduction while adding significantly more guns

Missing a point and undertanding why it is meaningless are not the same thing.

Actually, I did explain this before, but your maths didn't seem up to it.

I'll try again.

Two investors go to the market - one starts with €100,000 and loses €1,000. The other starts with €10,000 and loses €1,000.

Which investor performed better?

The US has been able to reduce its homicide rate by a similar number to the UK, because its homicide rate is so much massively higher to begin with.

The result is that the murder rate in the US is still massively higher.

Which is clearly not the result of gun laws.
Thanks for playing.

 

[Spoonman]

the other key point he misses is that countries with strict gun laws have not reduced their homicides at a rate faster than the USA. we have achieved the same rate of reduction while adding significantly more guns

Missing a point and undertanding why it is meaningless are not the same thing.

Actually, I did explain this before, but your maths didn't seem up to it.

I'll try again.

Two investors go to the market - one starts with €100,000 and loses €1,000. The other starts with €10,000 and loses €1,000.

Which investor performed better?

The US has been able to reduce its homicide rate by a similar number to the UK, because its homicide rate is so much massively higher to begin with.

The result is that the murder rate in the US is still massively higher.

uhm your analogy is wrong. but your a lib so I wouldn't expect you to get it. now lets compare apples to apples.

Two investors go to the market - one starts with €100,000 and loses 5%. The other starts with €10,000 and loses 5%. which performed better? that is an apples to apples comparison of what is going on. nice spin attempt

 

[boedicca]

Saigon cherry picks data and then repeats the same misinformation when called on it.
Europe does not have the same culture as America. Hell, America does not have the same culture as America. The culture in south Louisiana and Southern California are as different as anything.
He wants to compare apples to dog shit. The better comparison is apples to apples. And when you compare identical states before and after either strengthening or loosening gun laws you discover the laws have little effect on gun violence. Because...say it with me...criminals don't obey laws.

the other key point he misses is that countries with strict gun laws have not reduced their homicides at a rate faster than the USA. we have achieved the same rate of reduction while adding significantly more guns

Indeed. I've posted these before, but two pictures tell the story:

U.N. Maps Show U.S. High in Gun Ownership, Low in Homicides

 

[Spoonman]

great visuals. every picture tells a story don't it?

 

[boedicca]

It certainly does. In this case: More Guns, Less Homicides.

 

[Spoonman]

It certainly does. In this case: More Guns, Less Homicides.

these guys keep parroting the same lies and misinformation gun grabbing politicians like Feinstein, schumer, Cuomo and Obama keep spewing. the problem is they are mostly not fact based and not relevant to the discussion. at least they do not paint a realistic of where the real problems lie.

 

[Saigon]

It certainly does. In this case: More Guns, Less Homicides.

You have to laugh, don't you?

 

[boedicca]

It certainly does. In this case: More Guns, Less Homicides.

You have to laugh, don't you?

At your ignorance? All of time, bub, all of the time.

 

[Saigon]

Spoonman -

Both analogies are equally valid, obviously.

The end result being that one investor has more money - or a much, much higher homicide rate. Which is the US, of course, despite you attempts to spin it into a positive that the US has ten times as many murders as similar countries.

 

[Saigon]

It certainly does. In this case: More Guns, Less Homicides.

You have to laugh, don't you?

At your ignorance? All of time, bub, all of the time.

At the fact that you are posting something you do not believe, and know is not true.

The only reason you post that is for theatrical effect, and you know it. Who do you think could possibly be fooled by it?

THIS is the reality:

Can you tell us which countries on this chart have more guns and LESS crime?

Does Japan have alot of guns?

Does the US have low crime?

Honestly, what children you are!!

 

[The Rabbi]

Merely repeating something doesn't make it true.
Rates of gun related homicide in the US have declined, despite many many more guns being sold (or maybe because of that). If you think guns cause crime then the rise in gun sales should have produced the opposite effect. But it didnt.
Comparing the U.S. to Turkey or Japan is absurd. There are millions of differences that account for different rates of things. Perhaps rice causes suicide, which is why Japan's suicide rate is higher than ours.

 

[Saigon]

If you think guns cause crime then the rise in gun sales should have produced the opposite effect.

Actually, no.

Crime is probably dropping BECAUSE the number of hoseholds owning guns is dropping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[The Rabbi]

If you think guns cause crime then the rise in gun sales should have produced the opposite effect.

Actually, no.

Crime is probably dropping BECAUSE the number of hoseholds owning guns is dropping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

No proof for that statement. But it is obvious that many more guns have been sold in the last 10 years. They are not all going to existing gun owners. So the survey is wrong.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

I just posted the proof, genius. Do you need to see it from more sources?