With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

I just posted the proof, genius. Do you need to see it from more sources?

You posted nothing. A telephone survey asking people about sensitive matters is proof that surveys like that are worthless. Actual sales numbers from gun makers indicate a lot of guns being bought. Clearly they were not all bought by existing owners. Similarly membership in the nRA is up tremendously. That is not all existing gun owners.
You don't know any more about "proof" than you know about guns.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

In the face of overwhelming facts, smart people adjust their opinions accordingly.

In this case, the facts are very obviously not on your side, and you can either adjust your opinion accordingly, or continue to be simply, clearly, obviously wrong.

Here's more proof for you to ignore:

Only 34 percent of US households reported owning a gun in 2012, which is a drastic decline from the 50 percent who reported owning one in the 1970s, according to the General Social Survey. The most significant gun ownership declines were reported in the South and Western mountain states, traditionally conservative areas that boast a deep support for Second Amendment rights.

But all throughout the US, the household gun ownership rate has dropped from an average 50 percent in the ‘70s to 43 percent in the ‘90s and 35 percent in the 2000s. Now, at 34 percent, the rate is the lowest it has been in decades, if the poll is accurate.

Gun ownership in US on decline ? RT USA

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

In the face of overwhelming facts, smart people adjust their opinions accordingly.

In this case, the facts are very obviously not on your side, and you can either adjust your opinion accordingly, or continue to be simply, clearly, obviously wrong.

Here's more proof for you to ignore:

Only 34 percent of US households reported owning a gun in 2012, which is a drastic decline from the 50 percent who reported owning one in the 1970s, according to the General Social Survey. The most significant gun ownership declines were reported in the South and Western mountain states, traditionally conservative areas that boast a deep support for Second Amendment rights.

But all throughout the US, the household gun ownership rate has dropped from an average 50 percent in the ‘70s to 43 percent in the ‘90s and 35 percent in the 2000s. Now, at 34 percent, the rate is the lowest it has been in decades, if the poll is accurate.

Gun ownership in US on decline ? RT USA

Which it clearly cannot be.
Carry permits issued, guns sold, gun organization membership all tell a very different story. And those cannot be fudged in a telephone interview.
NRA Membership Surges By 100,000 In Wake Of Sandy Hook Shooting

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

And of course it does not occur to you that guns sold may be to people who ALREADY own guns?

Jesus wept....

 

[Spoonman]

You have to laugh, don't you?

At your ignorance? All of time, bub, all of the time.

At the fact that you are posting something you do not believe, and know is not true.

The only reason you post that is for theatrical effect, and you know it. Who do you think could possibly be fooled by it?

THIS is the reality:

Can you tell us which countries on this chart have more guns and LESS crime?

Does Japan have alot of guns?

Does the US have low crime?

Honestly, what children you are!!

the US has more people

 

[legaleagle_45]

Rabbi -

And of course it does not occur to you that guns sold may be to people who ALREADY own guns?

Jesus wept....

FOID applications are backlogged by 70,000 in Illinois this month. This represents new gun owners, not repeqt purchasers

One of the major reasons for the shift in demographics was the explosion of the number of households in the US since 1970... which increase was not related to population growth. Instead, the growth was primarily attributed to the significant increase in households where the women was the head of household, which in turn was attributed to women delaying marriage and or increasing divorce rates. Women own firearms at about 1/2 the rate that men do. The decrease in the percentage of households owning guns is attributed almost entirely to this demographic shift.

 

[Spoonman]

If you think guns cause crime then the rise in gun sales should have produced the opposite effect.

Actually, no.

Crime is probably dropping BECAUSE the number of hoseholds owning guns is dropping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

20,000,000 new pistol permits in 2012 and you really believe it is dropping? that isn't the same people buying guns, its new people buying guns

 

[Saigon]

Spoonman, legal eagle -

I've just read four separate surveys which tell me that the number of households in the USA which own again has dropped in recent years.

When reliable surveys start saying something else, I'll go with that.

Sentiment and gut feeling are not always the best indicators of fact.

the US has more people

btw. Spoonman - the graph is obviously PER CAPITA. Hence it does not matter how many people there are, does it?

 

[Spoonman]

Spoonman -

Both analogies are equally valid, obviously.

The end result being that one investor has more money - or a much, much higher homicide rate. Which is the US, of course, despite you attempts to spin it into a positive that the US has ten times as many murders as similar countries.

you obviously failed math. the US has decreased at the same percentage as countries with tough gun laws. yes the US has had a higher total in number of deaths decreased. no matter how you try to spin it, the US comes out ahead

 

[Spoonman]

Spoonman, legal eagle -

I've just read four separate surveys which tell me that the number of households in the USA which own again has dropped in recent years.

When reliable surveys start saying something else, I'll go with that.

Sentiment and gut feeling are not always the best indicators of fact.

the US has more people

btw. Spoonman - the graph is obviously PER CAPITA. Hence it does not matter how many people there are, does it?

you've read 4 pieces of liberal spin. municipalities can't even keep up with the backlog of applications. part time offices have had to become full time. you can go with whatever you want and continue to be wrong as usual

 

[legaleagle_45]

btw. Spoonman - the graph is obviously PER CAPITA. Hence it does not matter how many people there are, does it?

Incorrect. the graphis is per household, not per capita... and it specifically says so.

Guns At Home.. Rates of gun ownership have declined in American Households

Emphasis supplied

 

[legaleagle_45]

Another survey..

Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993

Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993

 

[The Rabbi]

Spoonman, legal eagle -

I've just read four separate surveys which tell me that the number of households in the USA which own again has dropped in recent years.

When reliable surveys start saying something else, I'll go with that.

Sentiment and gut feeling are not always the best indicators of fact.

the US has more people

btw. Spoonman - the graph is obviously PER CAPITA. Hence it does not matter how many people there are, does it?

you've read 4 pieces of liberal spin. municipalities can't even keep up with the backlog of applications. part time offices have had to become full time. you can go with whatever you want and continue to be wrong as usual

He manages to do what he accuses everyone else of. Everything with him is confirmation bias. So he'll read 3 news stories all quoting the same telephone survey and it becomes 3 pieces of independent evidence.
Yes, we all know there are many more guns in circulation in the U.S. than there were 10 years ago. You'd have to be blind not to see that. I see it every day in my store.
At least he's dropped the pretense that the U.S. is comparable to Germany.

 

[FA_Q2]

If you think guns cause crime then the rise in gun sales should have produced the opposite effect.

Actually, no.

Crime is probably dropping BECAUSE the number of hoseholds owning guns is dropping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

*sigh*

Further evidence that your premise is totally incorrect. So far EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE you have brought to the table proves that your thesis is totally incorrect. Why don’t you actually look at that graph again? It shows household gun ownership as declining FROM 73 on. Now:

Notice anything? If you noticed the fact that your graph and the above graph HAVE ZERO correlation then you would be correct. That DOES NOT support your thesis. Again, you are attempting to force data to fit your preconceived notion by ignoring decades of data and trying to focus on one or two numbers that show you are correct.

What your cite shows, when actually taken as a whole and looked at objectively, is that murder rates have virtually nothing to do with gun ownership at all. A steady decline in gun ownership by household has led to a murder rate that is all over the place with varying trends and rates not following anything even remotely like the rate of ownership.

Care to bring something else to the table now? Something that actually SUPPORTS your thesis instead of something that refutes it?

 

[Saigon]

Ok, there doesn't seem to be much new here, so just to conclude:

According to 4 entirely seperate surveys, gun ownership is falling. Here is another from the LA Times:

And we are told that the homicide rate is falling.

Make of that what you will.

FA-Q2 -

The above is my thesis. Your charts also indicate the same basic trends. Claiming "this disproves your theory" makes no sense unless you also explained HOW it disproves it. You didn't - and we both know why not.

 

[Saigon]

btw. Spoonman - the graph is obviously PER CAPITA. Hence it does not matter how many people there are, does it?

Incorrect. the graphis is per household, not per capita... and it specifically says so.

The graph is "per 100,000 households" - so how does the USA having a large population invalidate the graph?

It doesn't - obviously.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ok, there doesn't seem to be much new here, so just to conclude:

According to 4 entirely seperate surveys, gun ownership is falling. Here is another from the LA Times:

And we are told that the homicide rate is falling.

Make of that what you will.

FA-Q2 -

The above is my thesis. Your charts also indicate the same basic trends. Claiming "this disproves your theory" makes no sense unless you also explained HOW it disproves it. You didn't - and we both know why not.

Wow, doing just what I said. Misreading evidence, drawing conclusions based on existing bias. Ignoring counter data. Just a trip, s0n.

 

[HomeInspect]

Gun sale have increased 400% in my state since Obama has been in office. Some people call it being paranoid, because our government would never overstep its bounds. OH WAIT.. what did the IRS just do last week? Wake Up mindless !!

 

[Mom]

Gun sale have increased 400% in my state since Obama has been in office. Some people call it being paranoid, because our government would never overstep its bounds. OH WAIT.. what did the IRS just do last week? Wake Up mindless !!

So you think that you'd take on the government and the US army with your pea shooters?

Man, your grip on reality sure is tenuous.

 

[rightwinger]

Gun sale have increased 400% in my state since Obama has been in office. Some people call it being paranoid, because our government would never overstep its bounds. OH WAIT.. what did the IRS just do last week? Wake Up mindless !!

The IRS sent out some questionaires to political groups

You better buy more guns