Without a job, Romney made $57,000.00 a DAY for last two years.

[NYcarbineer]

Seems simple to me:
Take it out of the budget.

Good. Then, since Romney has already said he won't cut defense, he needs to tell the truth.

Tell the People that he wants to pay for a tax cut for himself and his comparably wealthy fellow Americans by cutting

Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, education, environmental protection, health and safety, etc.

Run on that. Run on the Truth.

If he said he'd do all that, I might actually vote for him.
If he -actually- did all that, he'd save the country.

The American people, for all their imperfections, are at least collectively civilized enough to overwhelmingly disagree with you,

on that I can safely step out and speak for others.

 

[Trajan]

I was told on this very thread that hard work does not do anything to bring real wealth. I was told just yesterday by Limbaugh that 'teamwork' is not an American virtue but something to be dismissed as Socialism. I've been told on this very thread that smart counts for more than fair.

I'm a living anachronism. I have been playing by rules that seemingly have served this society well for generations. But those rules are arcane and trite. The new rules are strip a corporation down to its lowest possible vitality, increase the stock price, trade on the price before it increases, take the profits from that sale and invest in another company and do the same.

My values include pay workers a fair wage for their efforts. Retain those workers with benefit packages so they no longer have to fear medical calamities will devastate their meager savings. Treat retirees with the respect they earned after years of service to the company. Treat my community with respect by not making an environmental wasteland of the neighborhood. Treat my stockholders with respect, but don't hurt the workers just to keep them happy.

I could not get any respect from today's Conservative with such values. Today's Conservative regards those values as something subversive and dangerous.

I guess then that today's Conservatives are all successful businessmen and women. Today's Conservatives dismiss hard work as foolish. They regard collective bargaining as evil and suspect.

I'm glad I have my values. I don't know what would pump blood through my body otherwise.

You're values? Don't make me laugh. What is trying to be put across to you is that your values aren't in fact good values.

Working hard? What is intrinsically valueable or noble about that? You simply have to unlearn some things. I get an awful lot of people took pride in hard work and it was viewed as noble or something the blue collar workers that worked hard. Take a few moments and rid yourself of your biases and look at that objectively. WHY is that something a person should take pride in? What is inherently noble about putting in any more effort than is necessary to generate income?

Paying people a fair wage? I agree with that too. The problem is you aren't honest with yourself. What constitutes a fair wage is not whatever the employee thinks is fair. The employer gets a say too and is normal human nature that the employee is gonna think their worth more than they are and the employer is gonna think their worth less than they are and you meat somewhere in the middle.

Helping people avoid the cost of medical calamities? Here's one thing that has never changed. Employers have NEVER compensated workers based on what they need to live on. You are compensated as a result of the skill you provide. Not as a result of what you need to live on.

Treat retirees with respect? Why is it an employers responsibility to plan for your life after you choose to stop working? Again you are paid for the skills you provide. An employer certainly doesn't oweing anything (even though most companies will still match 401k contributions) for NOT working. You have it entirely backwards. Employers have bent over backwards to retain good employees. They DO pay them to not work (vacation). They subsidize their healthcare and they give people money to live on even after they stop producing anything for them. You sniveling, selfish entitlement assholes still have the nerve to contend that it's the employers that aren't treating you fairly.

I understand. Today's Conservative cannot see virtues in hard work, honesty, fair play and respect.

I'm still happy to suffer the values I have which contain the virtues of hard work, honesty, fair play and respect. I could not go around heartless, blind, disrespectful and larcenous. I'm not fit to be a modern Conservative.

you didn't address his points, at all. You got up on a cross and are moralizing.

those values you trot out are in short supply in today's worker, they have been expunged by the delivery and inculcation of the adversarial attitude that exists and the ratcheted up expectation that somehow the worker should be treated almost exactly like an owner and they are entitled to it. That has NEVER been the case anywhere anyhow. BUT if they aren't its becasue they are greedy evil and selfish. family leave, maternity leave, seniority, being able for example to sue a co. for an alleged grievance 16 years later and after the alleged offender has died.....the whole gamut.

your workers should try looking in the mirror. and the conservatives thing, well, thats pretty interesting, so in your opinion a liberal would never ever behave the way you ascribe to con. biz owners towards workers? really is that your position?

 

[Gadawg73]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

 

[Bern80]

The idea that poor people should pay the same rate of tax as rich people is only 'fair' by someone's arbitrary made-up definition of what 'fair' is.

Actually the opposite of true. The notion that fair distribution of tax burden has anything to do with a person's ability to pay it is what fits no definition of fair.

It doesn't? Who appointed you master definer?

Therefore our public school system, which provides a basic education regardless of one's ability to pay,

is fundamentally unfair. And because it's unfair, by your definition, and because you believe that 'unfairness' should be wiped out,

we should get rid of our public education systems and let people sink or swim educationally based on how much money they have.

You see people? this is why conservatism is dead.

Actually I'm using the dictionary definition of the term.

Definition of FAIR
1: pleasing to the eye or mind especially because of fresh, charming, or flawless quality
2: superficially pleasing : specious <she trusted his fair promises>
3a : clean, pure <fair sparkling water> b : clear, legible
4: not stormy or foul : fine <fair weather>
5: ample <a fair estate>
6a : marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with>1) : conforming with the established rules : allowed (2) : consonant with merit or importance : due <a fair share> c : open to legitimate pursuit, attack, or ridicule <fair game>
7a : promising, likely <in a fair way to win> b : favorable to a ship's course <a fair wind>
8archaic : free of obstacles
9: not dark <fair skin>
10a : sufficient but not ample : adequate <a fair understanding of the work> b : moderately numerous, large, or significant <takes a fair amount of time>
11: being such to the utmost : utter <a fair treat to watch him &#8212; New Republic>

If you can fit taking from those simply because they can afford it and/or absolving those for whom paying it would be difficult, into any of those definitions, by all means, make your case.

 

[Gadawg73]

We spend too much money. We take in 2.1 trillion in revenues and spend 3.7 trillion.
Simple math here.
You could tax EVERYONE that makes over 250K a year ALL OF THEIR DAMN INCOME, ALL OF IT and it would not TOUCH that 1.6 trillion deficit THIS YEAR.
How can you folks be so damn stupid?
We need to CUT THE DAMN SPENDING.
Where has the common sense gone? When spending is 60% over what you take in YOU CUT THE DAMN SPENDING.
Or pass the debt on to the kids like you tax and spend freaks have been doing.

 

[Trajan]

We spend too much money. We take in 2.1 trillion in revenues and spend 3.7 trillion.
Simple math here.
You could tax EVERYONE that makes over 250K a year ALL OF THEIR DAMN INCOME, ALL OF IT and it would not TOUCH that 1.6 trillion deficit THIS YEAR.
How can you folks be so damn stupid?
We need to CUT THE DAMN SPENDING.
Where has the common sense gone? When spending is 60% over what you take in YOU CUT THE DAMN SPENDING.
Or pass the debt on to the kids like you tax and spend freaks have been doing.

none of that matters, its the mantra...as the song says; " the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made".

I brought 50 pennies to work and sat down and explained how cap gains works from original profit via corp entity taxed at the 35% rate, to the end user and the cap gains tax and how it was taxed at 44.75%, ( thats the max) and explained that any deductions for losses are capped at a 3K despite the loss being very much greater etc etc etc ..........after scratching his head for 5 minutes, he said it didn't matter they should pay tax on it like income, again, I explained it, again.


Now, this person is a scientist, a pretty darn smart guy, degrees in chemistry from Berkeley, list of accomplishments as long as your arm, etc etc ..but, hes a self avowed liberal, he turned the debate into an emotional argument and declared himself right, we need he said.

 

[kwc57]

we spend too much money. We take in 2.1 trillion in revenues and spend 3.7 trillion.
Simple math here.
You could tax everyone that makes over 250k a year all of their damn income, all of it and it would not touch that 1.6 trillion deficit this year.
How can you folks be so damn stupid?
We need to cut the damn spending.
Where has the common sense gone? When spending is 60% over what you take in you cut the damn spending.
Or pass the debt on to the kids like you tax and spend freaks have been doing.

none of that matters, its the mantra...as the song says; " the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made".

I brought 50 pennies to work and sat down and explained how cap gains works from original profit via corp entity taxed at the 35% rate, to the end user and the cap gains tax and how it was taxed at 44.75%, ( thats the max) and explained that any deductions for losses are capped at a 3k despite the loss being very much greater etc etc etc ..........after scratching his head for 5 minutes, he said it didn't matter they should pay tax on it like income, again, i explained it, again.


Now, this person is a scientist, a pretty darn smart guy, degrees in chemistry from berkeley, list of accomplishments as long as your arm, etc etc ..but, hes a self avowed liberal, he turned the debate into an emotional argument and declared himself right, we need he said.

View attachment 17220

 

[MikeK]

What you should want as your President is a statesman, not a multi-millionaire who is a successful financial schemer. But your values have been so distorted by the brainwash which has affected so many of your political contemporaries that what I've said makes no sense to you. And that's a goddam shame because you're obviously intelligent.

do you know where one of them guys are?....

I believe Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader and Elizabeth Warren fit the statesman profile. Problem is the System is so utterly corrupted by money that those with true statesman-like character are impeded by their unwillingness to shake hands with the devil.

 

[Trajan]

What you should want as your President is a statesman, not a multi-millionaire who is a successful financial schemer. But your values have been so distorted by the brainwash which has affected so many of your political contemporaries that what I've said makes no sense to you. And that's a goddam shame because you're obviously intelligent.

do you know where one of them guys are?....

I believe Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader and Elizabeth Warren fit the statesman profile. Problem is the System is so utterly corrupted by money that those with true statesman-like character are impeded by their unwillingness to shake hands with the devil.

whats a statesman?

and I find your use of the statesMAN term very hostile and insulating to the female gender.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

 

[Trajan]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

 

[Chris]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

So it is not already taxed.

It's time to end welfare for the super rich.

 

[freedombecki]

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

So it is not already taxed.

It's time to end welfare for the super rich.

Good. We'll remove those several half billion dollar golden parachutes from Nancy Pelosi's relatives' endowment and give it back to the U. S. Treasury to spend on the people of the United States' needs such as Security from terrorists.

 

[Chris]

yeah no kidding..........and?

So it is not already taxed.

It's time to end welfare for the super rich.

Good. We'll remove those several half billion dollar golden parachutes from Nancy Pelosi's relatives' endowment and give it back to the U. S. Treasury to spend on the people of the United States' needs such as Security from terrorists.

The Buffett Rule.

The super rich pay at least 30%.

 

[MikeK]

Your an Idiot. Obama's Spending, and Polices Guarantee we will all have to pay more Taxes. You can not pay for it all even by taking all the 1% income, let alone a few % more. Even if they don't Raise Federal Taxes. They keep Heaping Mandates and Obligations on the States who will have to Raise their Taxes.

Were not falling for the old game of "no new taxes" when all they mean is our Withholding Rates wont go up on Federal, but everything else will. State, Local, Gas Taxes, Etc Etc.

Sooner or later someone is going to have to pay the piper on all this debt, and spending. No matter how many times the Left says it will be the Rich. It wont change the Math. It will be us all.

So your response is to issue a personal insult and totally ignore my question, which is not at all surprising. In fact it is typical of those who serve the interests of the One Percent by parroting the nonsense pumped into their one-dimensional minds by propagandists like Rush Limbaugh.

I don't know if your taxes will be raised or not because I don't know what your income bracket is. But if your tax rate is increased the cause is not Obama's spending but Bush's spending. Obama didn't commence two ruinously costly military operations without budgeting for either one. Obama didn't patronize the pharmaceutical industry by attaching Part D, an enormous expense, to Medicare. Nor did Obama reduce taxes on the One Percent after having punched those two massive holes in the revenue base.

So if you think Obama's spending is responsible for our economic troubles you need to give some more thought to who the idiot is in this discussion.

Yes... Bush spent heavily... but to think that Obama is not doing worse in spending, is unfathomably ignorant... if taxes raise, it is because of the new spending he has brought about.. as well as any increased spending the congress is bringing about...

The key is electing persons in both the executive and the legislature that will do what is necessary and fucking CUT the spending DRASTICALLY

I have referred specifically to the wasteful and wholly unnecessary nature of Bush's spending, which is what brought our economy down. Please tell us which components of Obama's spending compares with Bush's profligate disregard for the health of the economy, because you cannot just point to spending without specific mention of its purpose.

Was it necessary to invade and occupy Iraq? Or was it beneficial to the Military Industrial Complex?

Considering the examples of the French, the English, the Russians -- and Alexander, was it necessary, or wise, to deploy troops in the mountains of Afghanistan? Or was it beneficial to the Military Industrial Complex?

Considering the readily accessible alternative of negotiating prices with the pharmaceutical industry, as does the VA and Canada, was it necessary, or wise, to implement Medicare Part D? Or was that another glaringly obvious example of corporate cronyism?

Don't mistake the reason for my argument. I am not a fan of Barack Obama, whom I believe to be an artful bullshit artist. But I do believe his spending policies are entirely more justifiable and constructive than were those of the criminal bastard, George W. Bush.

 

[MikeK]

Speaking of juvenile...
You believe that you are entitled to more than what you have, and you believe that you deserve to have the wealthy give it to you.

What do you base this inane presumption on?

Do you actually believe the taxes you pay are routinely distributed to some mysterious category of people whom those who think like you never specify? Or are you simply parroting the brainwash which is pumped into your brain on a daily basis by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity?

Do you believe a tax increase on the rich will result in party time for the less fortunate? If so, can you back that up with some supportive facts?

We specify who the money's being redistributed to all the time. . .

No you don't. You sometimes slip in some vaguely coded hints of whom you've been led by right-wing propagandists to believe your tax money is being redistributed to. But you never dare to openly reveal your paranoid suspicions.

. . . not that it matters, because the objectionable point is that it's being redistributed at all.

It does matter. Because it is in fact the substance of your mental disorder.

NOT the government's job to decide who should have what.

And whose propaganda is this? Ron Paul's? Without government's social organization, where would you be? A master in your sexual fantasies but a slave in your insignificant reality.

Do you believe the goal is to create "party time for the less fortunate"? OUR goal is to allow Americans to keep as much of what they make as possible.

I believe that equitable distribution of this Nation's exceptional wealth is the way to maintain its strength and stability. What you believe in is the formula for its ultimate demise. And by equitable I don't mean equal. I mean fair and sensible -- as it was throughout the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, the most prosperous decades in our history.

 

[Trajan]

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

So it is not already taxed.

It's time to end welfare for the super rich.

you need to learn to read for one thing, and you're a fruitloop, real estate my ass I doubt you have a job that involves anything cash or assets anymore than making change at a gas station. of course its been taxed.

 

[MikeK]

do you know where one of them guys are?....

I believe Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader and Elizabeth Warren fit the statesman profile. Problem is the System is so utterly corrupted by money that those with true statesman-like character are impeded by their unwillingness to shake hands with the devil.

whats a statesman?

and I find your use of the statesMAN term very hostile and insulating to the female gender.

You'd like it even less if I hadn't included Elizabeth Warren in my suggestion. But, be that as it may -- I couldn't care less.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

Then YOU explain to Gadawg73 why he is incorrect when he claims Romney should owe NO tax.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Romney's income is from capital gains.
He already paid the highest tax rate on ALL OF THAT INVESTED $$$ when he earned it as earned income.
He should owe NO tax.
He could have lost ALL of that investment income.
And made liberals happy as that way he would be on government assistance where they want the entire nation.

Capital gains tax isn't applied to the already-taxed income he invests. Capital gains tax is applied to the money earned from investing his already-taxed income.

yeah no kidding..........and?

If I use my income to buy some rental equipment, and go into business renting it, and make money at it,

they tax my new income, right? Even though the money I used to buy the equipment had already been taxed.