Women's Suffrage -- an immoral movement and an immoral party

[EriktheRed]

So who do y'all think the OP is a retread of ?

 

[hoosier88]

"Ok that's fine. I think it's' in all our self interest whether man or woman for women to vote. My point is that, unfortunately, the women's movement was very flawed from the start and still 100 years later is fighting more for inequality because it continues to have double and triple standards for women and is very antiman. Feminism is the last movement any liberal should point to and be proud of. Civil Rights has gone off the deep end, but at least it's a lot easier to show that black people were victims and deserved serious reparations and changes of the law. Women, on the other hand, were most often NOT second class citizens as they usually were married to some guy who theoretically provided, protected and loved them. Now watch, some feminist will say 7 out of 4 Colonial wives were beaten every five minutes by male ruffians who didn't even keep the toilet seat down... "

(My bold)

Ah, the "women as pets" theory. Nah, you miss the point. Women were treated as chattel - there were brideprices, dowries, & so on. Women were mostly expected to be good little "helpmeets", an adornment on the husband's career. My dog gets better treatment, & women are capable humans.

Islam gets criticized regularly because they severely repress their women. Their women typically don't get formal education, can barely read/write, are relegated to the kitchen & bedroom, don't vote, can't drive, & on & on. To the point that Islamic states - aside from oil/natgas production - have v. primitive economies, can't field efficient modern militaries, don't generate enough jobs for their young people, & are generally demoralized societies.

Contrast that with the condition of women in the US or in the West in general. Women participate in education, government, politics, literature, science - & often teach or nurse or are doctors. The utilization of manpower in the West is much higher than in the Islamic countries, & this is one reason it's so difficult for Islamic countries to outperform the West in most economic or social measures.

So women aren't subject to the draft? Neither are men - they merely have to register. The US military is opening more MOS to women - & some of them will apply for those slots. Not all women will have the upper-body strength to be troopers - but if we continue mechanizing & cyborgizing - exoskeletons, for instance - the battlefield, innate strength may not be the main qualification anymore.

Yah, I've heard people say that Blacks were better off under slavery than free - that they didn't have to worry about where their next meal was coming, & they were too valuable to mistreat, & yadda-yadda-yadda. It sounds like so much treacle to me - if Dobby the mule is too old & played out to haul the wagon anymore, Dobby gets put down, not put out to pasture. I wouldn't trust to the tender mercies of anyone who actually thought he had the right to own a person, & break up that person's family, & bang the help on the side.

 

[Kelamity]

Is there still a "feminist movement" in the US? I guess the last time I heard about one was back in college in the 80's. Maybe I'm hanging out in all the wrong places. Though, I see what's going on in other parts of the world and think, "Goodness, they sure need one."

 

[Unkotare]

What a strange thread.

Discussions about equality are strange? I see...

No, the way that you have chosen to express your inner conflict over your latent homosexuality is strange.

You don't think women should have the right to vote, eh? Hmmm....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuEaG-buvo]family guy - gay thoughts - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TheOldSchool]

My girlfriend beat me up yesterday. I had to tell people at work all day that I walked into a door. So embarrassing. Typical feminazi behavior. Us men need to unite and stand up for our rights!

Dude, try a new joke. The attempt at mockery by pretending that men suffer from women's issues is a dead end. In fact, it's just the opposite. Men have different issues that feminism, the supposed equality movement, never addresses.

So spare me with your cringing PC look at the world. I'm sorry that you believe feminist statistics like, "The number of women who died in the U.S. at the hands of male domestic abusers exceeded the numbers of U.S. male soliders who died on the battlefield."

You believe stuff like this?? God what a dope...

If I join the Army am I should be allowed to use women?

 

[Kelamity]

Registration for Selective Service is an interesting issue... We would require a change in legislation, I think, to open it up to registration for women. At present, there's no avenue for them, so no fault of the women that they don't register . I'm willing to bet that once the barrier is eliminated, you would see a lot of women register. However, since we don't have a draft anymore, the operational value of the registration process is void. Hence, it's not a government priority and we are where we are.

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

Women serve in the military, there are plenty of men who haven't fulfilled their "military responsibilities and burderns" (see limbaugh and nugent), they certainly "cherry picked" whether to serve or not.

My claim is not false, it's true. Liberals fought against the tyranny of the British and formed this country. Liberals fought against slavery, Liberals fought for women's suffrage, Liberal fought for the Civil Rights Movement and Liberals continue to fight for Freedom and Civil Liberties today.

Women don't serve in combat and they don't have to register with selective service. Where are all the equality freaks among the feminists who should be OUTRAGED by this lack of equality??

As far as not all men serving, not all women have been raped, but feminists like to say its everyone's problem. Fair enough. Then a male only draft and male only combat is everyone's problem whether every man served or not.

Again as far as liberals fighting for the suffrage movement, it was not an equality movement, so are you bragging about liberals reinforcing inequality???

More than 800 women have been wounded in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more than 150 have been killed. You are really not making any real sense. Who established the rules that women shouldn't serve in combat roles?

Those women were not serving directly in combat. More than 4,500 men have been killed versus 150 women. Since feminists like to trot out all kinds of numbers -- that's a 30 to 1 ration of men to women killed. If feminists are so hellbent on equality, why haven't they been outraged by this one sided gendercide?? Why haven't they pushed to change the laws to protect men?? Answer -- Because feminism isn't about equality and it isn't about making things fair or equal for men.

Liberals, influenced by feminists, have been advocating all kinds of antiman laws for a long time now. Notice how we get all kinds of stories about harassment of women in the military but barely a peep about how 30 times as many men died as women in this latest war. That's because any perceived disadvantage women have is emphasized and any perceived disadvantage men have is minimized or dismissed. This antiman behavior is typical of feminists.


As far as who established the rules, that would be the voting public. Men often want to have men in combat because they want to protect, "innocent women." Translation - men still see women's lives as more valuable than gtheir own and that's why they consider being heroes. This traditional view, which is unfair to men and minimizes men's lives, hasn't really been challenged that much by feminists. Because once again, feminists don't care about men or equality. They just want to get all the rights of men and none of the responsibililities.

Actually it wouldn't be a stretch to say feminists want all the rights of men while REDUCING EVEN FURTHER feminine responsibility. For instance, there are feminist advocated laws on college campuses that say if a woman is drunk and a man has sex with her its rape. What are the implications of this?? The more the woman drinks the less she is responsible the more he is responsible. This is a good example of not seeking equality but making women have NO responsibility while heaping everything on the man...

These examples are why men are aghast at feminist tainted women and the liberals who support them.

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

"Ok that's fine. I think it's' in all our self interest whether man or woman for women to vote. My point is that, unfortunately, the women's movement was very flawed from the start and still 100 years later is fighting more for inequality because it continues to have double and triple standards for women and is very antiman. Feminism is the last movement any liberal should point to and be proud of. Civil Rights has gone off the deep end, but at least it's a lot easier to show that black people were victims and deserved serious reparations and changes of the law. Women, on the other hand, were most often NOT second class citizens as they usually were married to some guy who theoretically provided, protected and loved them. Now watch, some feminist will say 7 out of 4 Colonial wives were beaten every five minutes by male ruffians who didn't even keep the toilet seat down... "

(My bold)

Ah, the "women as pets" theory. Nah, you miss the point. Women were treated as chattel - there were brideprices, dowries, & so on. Women were mostly expected to be good little "helpmeets", an adornment on the husband's career. My dog gets better treatment, & women are capable humans.

Islam gets criticized regularly because they severely repress their women. Their women typically don't get formal education, can barely read/write, are relegated to the kitchen & bedroom, don't vote, can't drive, & on & on. To the point that Islamic states - aside from oil/natgas production - have v. primitive economies, can't field efficient modern militaries, don't generate enough jobs for their young people, & are generally demoralized societies.

Contrast that with the condition of women in the US or in the West in general. Women participate in education, government, politics, literature, science - & often teach or nurse or are doctors. The utilization of manpower in the West is much higher than in the Islamic countries, & this is one reason it's so difficult for Islamic countries to outperform the West in most economic or social measures.

So women aren't subject to the draft? Neither are men - they merely have to register. The US military is opening more MOS to women - & some of them will apply for those slots. Not all women will have the upper-body strength to be troopers - but if we continue mechanizing & cyborgizing - exoskeletons, for instance - the battlefield, innate strength may not be the main qualification anymore.

Yah, I've heard people say that Blacks were better off under slavery than free - that they didn't have to worry about where their next meal was coming, & they were too valuable to mistreat, & yadda-yadda-yadda. It sounds like so much treacle to me - if Dobby the mule is too old & played out to haul the wagon anymore, Dobby gets put down, not put out to pasture. I wouldn't trust to the tender mercies of anyone who actually thought he had the right to own a person, & break up that person's family, & bang the help on the side.

YOU: Ah, the "women as pets" theory. Nah, you miss the point. Women were treated as chattel - there were brideprices, dowries, & so on. Women were mostly expected to be good little "helpmeets", an adornment on the husband's career. My dog gets better treatment, & women are capable humans.

ME: I disagree on how women were chattel. This sounds like a line from the feminist handbook. Think about that phrase for a moment. Women were treated like chattel. If this were true, then why did the guys jump off the Titanic to commit mass suicide?? Would they have jumped off the ship to save Buicks? Horses? No, women were to some extent put on a pedestal and treated better than men. It was a contradictory world no doubt with women being treated like children on the one hand and like superiors on another the other hand. What would explain this? Most of it had to do with protection. There is an upside and a downside to protection. THe upside is that men's lives were seen as less valuable than,"innocent women and children." So women in some sense lived privileged lives. On the other hand, the downside of protection is the patronizing nature that women were treated. Women often were not taken that seriously as they were seen as fragile and in need of protection.

So no the feminist notion that somehow women had these HORRID lives doesn't make a lot of sense. But I agree with you that women were not always respected but rather protected...

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

"Ok that's fine. I think it's' in all our self interest whether man or woman for women to vote. My point is that, unfortunately, the women's movement was very flawed from the start and still 100 years later is fighting more for inequality because it continues to have double and triple standards for women and is very antiman. Feminism is the last movement any liberal should point to and be proud of. Civil Rights has gone off the deep end, but at least it's a lot easier to show that black people were victims and deserved serious reparations and changes of the law. Women, on the other hand, were most often NOT second class citizens as they usually were married to some guy who theoretically provided, protected and loved them. Now watch, some feminist will say 7 out of 4 Colonial wives were beaten every five minutes by male ruffians who didn't even keep the toilet seat down... "

(My bold)

Ah, the "women as pets" theory. Nah, you miss the point. Women were treated as chattel - there were brideprices, dowries, & so on. Women were mostly expected to be good little "helpmeets", an adornment on the husband's career. My dog gets better treatment, & women are capable humans.

Islam gets criticized regularly because they severely repress their women. Their women typically don't get formal education, can barely read/write, are relegated to the kitchen & bedroom, don't vote, can't drive, & on & on. To the point that Islamic states - aside from oil/natgas production - have v. primitive economies, can't field efficient modern militaries, don't generate enough jobs for their young people, & are generally demoralized societies.

Contrast that with the condition of women in the US or in the West in general. Women participate in education, government, politics, literature, science - & often teach or nurse or are doctors. The utilization of manpower in the West is much higher than in the Islamic countries, & this is one reason it's so difficult for Islamic countries to outperform the West in most economic or social measures.

So women aren't subject to the draft? Neither are men - they merely have to register. The US military is opening more MOS to women - & some of them will apply for those slots. Not all women will have the upper-body strength to be troopers - but if we continue mechanizing & cyborgizing - exoskeletons, for instance - the battlefield, innate strength may not be the main qualification anymore.

Yah, I've heard people say that Blacks were better off under slavery than free - that they didn't have to worry about where their next meal was coming, & they were too valuable to mistreat, & yadda-yadda-yadda. It sounds like so much treacle to me - if Dobby the mule is too old & played out to haul the wagon anymore, Dobby gets put down, not put out to pasture. I wouldn't trust to the tender mercies of anyone who actually thought he had the right to own a person, & break up that person's family, & bang the help on the side.

YOU: So women aren't subject to the draft? Neither are men - they merely have to register.

ME: Feminists are always big into symbolism. The fact that only men have to register for selective service shows that men still have an unequal burden. More to the point, if a man fails to register he can be charged with a felony. Women have no such restriction. So feminists running around shrieking about, "My body my choice," sound hypocritical when it comes to men's bodies in service to this country being, "A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do." And again we basically have male only combat. So I'm embarassed for feminist tainted women with the my body my choice slogan. It smacks of the worst kind of narcissism when it's juxtaposed with male burdens...

 

[Kelamity]

A fairly recent measure of the effectiveness of the women's movement for equal rights was provided by the beaching of the cruise ship off the coast of Italy. One remarkable aspect of the whole episode was that the notion of "women and children first", a relic of cultural notions of the past regarding the protected status of women, pretty much went over the side of the ship while men grabbed space available on the life boats in an "every man (anthropologically speaking) for himself" mindset. Can't blame them. Classic case of "be careful what you ask for," lol. The times, they are a'changing.

 

[Unkotare]

If you find being a man too tough for you, go have the surgery and STFU.

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

Registration for Selective Service is an interesting issue... We would require a change in legislation, I think, to open it up to registration for women. At present, there's no avenue for them, so no fault of the women that they don't register . I'm willing to bet that once the barrier is eliminated, you would see a lot of women register. However, since we don't have a draft anymore, the operational value of the registration process is void. Hence, it's not a government priority and we are where we are.

Yeah, the selective service isn't a driving force today. My point is mostly symbolic to show how phony feminism is. Clearly if they were interested in equality, women would have been registering for the draft back in 1920. Didn't happen because equality wasn't the goal...

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

A fairly recent measure of the effectiveness of the women's movement for equal rights was provided by the beaching of the cruise ship off the coast of Italy. One remarkable aspect of the whole episode was that the notion of "women and children first", a relic of cultural notions of the past regarding the protected status of women, pretty much went over the side of the ship while men grabbed space available on the life boats in an "every man (anthropologically speaking) for himself" mindset. Can't blame them. Classic case of "be careful what you ask for," lol. The times, they are a'changing.

Yeah, honestly, although I think feminists are full of crap, I still was appalled at the lack of heroism and sacrifice by those on the ship. I would have let the women and children off first. Just my wiring and upbringing...

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

If you find being a man too tough for you, go have the surgery and STFU.

I see so when I point out major hypocrisy of a supposed equality movement, I should somehow have surgery? Thank you for that BRILLIANT INSIGHT INTO THE HUMAN CONDITION!!! This eternal verity which you have bestowed on us has made us all the better for it. We anxiously await your next profundity with baited breath...

 

[Kelamity]

Good Lord, you're showing your tender side.

 

[Kelamity]

Well, dang, the system of registering for military service (to the best of my knowledge) didn't come into being until the "Selective Training and Service Act of 1940"... so on this count, I think the women of the 20's and 30's, at least, might get a bye. Add to that, they didn't exactly have a whole lot of say in the rule making at the time... so, you're going to have to pin that one on the dudes, dude.

 

[Pogo]

So who do y'all think the OP is a retread of ?

Archie Bunker?

I know that's an insult to Archie Bunker but I've misplaced my knuckledragger playing cards.

 

[Unkotare]

If you find being a man too tough for you, go have the surgery and STFU.

I see so when I point out major hypocrisy of a supposed equality movement, I should somehow have surgery? Thank you for that BRILLIANT INSIGHT INTO THE HUMAN CONDITION!!! This eternal verity which you have bestowed on us has made us all the better for it. We anxiously await your next profundity with baited breath...

Hey, you find being man too challenging, you don't have to keep suffering. Just STFU about it.

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

Well, dang, the system of registering for military service (to the best of my knowledge) didn't come into being until the "Selective Training and Service Act of 1940"... so on this count, I think the women of the 20's and 30's, at least, might get a bye. Add to that, they didn't exactly have a whole lot of say in the rule making at the time... so, you're going to have to pin that one on the dudes, dude.

Well actually, since women convinced men to change things in women's favor back in 1913 or whenever that was passed, they could have convinced men to let women serve in combat and be drafted. At least an equality movement would have done that...

 

[Dorkazoid_Jones]

If you find being a man too tough for you, go have the surgery and STFU.

I see so when I point out major hypocrisy of a supposed equality movement, I should somehow have surgery? Thank you for that BRILLIANT INSIGHT INTO THE HUMAN CONDITION!!! This eternal verity which you have bestowed on us has made us all the better for it. We anxiously await your next profundity with baited breath...

Hey, you find being man too challenging, you don't have to keep suffering. Just STFU about it.

You silver tongued devil!! JESUS I wish I'd though to say that!!!