World Trade Center probably could not have been destroyed by planes

[Skylar]

What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

What proof do you have of explosive that makes you 100% sure?

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing. Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing.

Hold on. First you claimed explosives. Now you're claiming thermite?
You know they're different things, right?

Its the conspiracy howdown! Spin your claims a'round and round. Pick them up and put them down!


Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!

Um.....there was no evidence of bombs, nor did any of the bomb squads nor bomb sniffing dogs find any evidence of explosives.

Truther: that's because it was thermite!

Um.....thermite doesn't explode.

Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!


Sigh....brainwash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[Dale Smith]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon..

How fast was the plane going before impact? At that speed, how many frames should there be?

Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day.

The S.E.C. and the exchanges where these imaginary insider trades occurred would have records of these trades. It's not like the original and only copies would have been sent to Cantor's office just in time for a massive terror attack.

I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership.

Silly gibberish. There is no Fed Bank. If there was, it would not control the S.E.C.
The S.E.C. does not scrutinize and authenticate ownership of stock.

There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from.

These imaginary 10 year securities would not magically disappear because the WTC collapsed.

So how'd the plane engines, the fuselage, the body remains from the passengers get into lower Manhattan?

Phone calls from the planes prove it was a hijacking.

Yeah, they couldn't possibly fake those at all (rolls eyes). I am not saying that there was no planes or if they were drones or not. What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7.

You know a massive fire tends to screw up explosives, wiring, detonators, right?
And why didn't they find any evidence of explosives, wiring or detonators?

Not before, not during, not after. This despite Port Authority bomb squad, complete with bomb sniffing dogs inspecting the WTC plaza a week before 911. Nor was there a single girder cut in a manner consistent with explosive demolition.

Despite the truther conspiracy requiring tens of thousands of such cuts.

Remember, the WTC 1 and 2 came down exactly opposite of controlled demolition. They collapsed top to bottom, with each floor from the impact site to the ground being destroyed individually. Meaning that each floor would have had to have been demolished *individually*. There are 249 outer panels per floor and 47 core columns. With 77 floors to the ground in one tower and 93 in the other

.....that's about 50,000 individual explosive charges and 50,000 cuts consistent with explosive demolition per the bomb theory.

Yet there were none.

Building 7??????

So you've capitulated the stupidity and overwhelming evidence contradicting the bomb theory for WTC 1 and 2?

If so, please say it.

I know more than you...can't say it any plainer than that. I am willing to give you the benefit of all the time I have spent researching and studying for free. A mind is like a parachute.....only works if it is open.

 

[Dale Smith]

What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

What proof do you have of explosive that makes you 100% sure?

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing. Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing.

Hold on. First you claimed explosives. Now you're claiming thermite?
You know they're different things, right?

Its the conspiracy howdown! Spin your claims a'round and round. Pick them up and put them down!


Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!

Um.....there was no evidence of bombs, nor did any of the bomb squads nor bomb sniffing dogs find any evidence of explosives.

Truther: that's because it was thermite!

Um.....thermite doesn't explode.

Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!


Sigh....brainwash. Rinse. Repeat.

WTC building 7..........

 

[Skylar]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon..

How fast was the plane going before impact? At that speed, how many frames should there be?

Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day.

The S.E.C. and the exchanges where these imaginary insider trades occurred would have records of these trades. It's not like the original and only copies would have been sent to Cantor's office just in time for a massive terror attack.

I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership.

Silly gibberish. There is no Fed Bank. If there was, it would not control the S.E.C.
The S.E.C. does not scrutinize and authenticate ownership of stock.

There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from.

These imaginary 10 year securities would not magically disappear because the WTC collapsed.

Yeah, they couldn't possibly fake those at all (rolls eyes). I am not saying that there was no planes or if they were drones or not. What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7.

You know a massive fire tends to screw up explosives, wiring, detonators, right?
And why didn't they find any evidence of explosives, wiring or detonators?

Not before, not during, not after. This despite Port Authority bomb squad, complete with bomb sniffing dogs inspecting the WTC plaza a week before 911. Nor was there a single girder cut in a manner consistent with explosive demolition.

Despite the truther conspiracy requiring tens of thousands of such cuts.

Remember, the WTC 1 and 2 came down exactly opposite of controlled demolition. They collapsed top to bottom, with each floor from the impact site to the ground being destroyed individually. Meaning that each floor would have had to have been demolished *individually*. There are 249 outer panels per floor and 47 core columns. With 77 floors to the ground in one tower and 93 in the other

.....that's about 50,000 individual explosive charges and 50,000 cuts consistent with explosive demolition per the bomb theory.

Yet there were none.

Building 7??????

So you've capitulated the stupidity and overwhelming evidence contradicting the bomb theory for WTC 1 and 2?

If so, please say it.

I know more than you...can't say it any plainer than that. I am willing to give you the benefit of all the time I have spent researching and studying for free. A mind is like a parachute.....only works if it is open.

Show me, don't tell me.

You made claims about WTC 1, 2 and 7. I demonstrated with better logic, better reasoning and better evidence that your account is meaningless horsehit when applied to WTC 1 and 2.

And for the second post in a row, you refuse to discuss WTC 1 or 2.

Which speaks volumes.

 

[Skylar]

What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

What proof do you have of explosive that makes you 100% sure?

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing. Then there is the testimony of Dr Steve Pieczenik, who spent thirty years in the CIA that offered to testify in a Senate hearing that a General told him exactly how 9/11 was pulled off. He was also the first to reveal that Osama bin Laden died on December 13 2001 of Marfan's syndrome and had been visited in a military hospital in Dubai and debriefed by the CIA and other intel spooks in July of 2001. He only confirmed what I had already researched but he is definitely a credible source.

Military grade thermite was detected in dust particles for one thing.

Hold on. First you claimed explosives. Now you're claiming thermite?
You know they're different things, right?

Its the conspiracy howdown! Spin your claims a'round and round. Pick them up and put them down!


Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!

Um.....there was no evidence of bombs, nor did any of the bomb squads nor bomb sniffing dogs find any evidence of explosives.

Truther: that's because it was thermite!

Um.....thermite doesn't explode.

Truther: Its the bombs in the WTC 1 and 2 brought them down with explosive demolition!


Sigh....brainwash. Rinse. Repeat.

WTC building 7..........

Make that 3 posts in a row where you starkly refuse to discuss WTC 1 or 2.

If even you are going to treat your 'explosive demolition' narrative like useless flotsom to be tossed on the rhetorical midden heap, surely you can understand why we treat them the same way?

Use that 'open mind' and try and explain the huge, theory killing holes in your WTC 1 and 2 'explosive demolition' theory.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

How fast was the plane going before impact? At that speed, how many frames should there be?"

Ummm, there were 83 camera tapes that were confiscated and any of them could have shown the incredible aeronautical maneuvers that allowed this pilot that couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna plane to fly mere feet off of the ground and hit the Pentagon into the section of the building where people were trying to track the 2.3 trillion dollars that Donald Rumsfeld said on 9/10/01 could not be accounted for......

"The S.E.C. and the exchanges where these imaginary insider trades occurred would have records of these trades. It's not like the original and only copies would have been sent to Cantor's office just in time for a massive terror attack."

You must mean the accounting offices of Cantor Fitzgerald...and yes, there were no other records of the accounting and insider trading fraud that was being investigated.

"Silly gibberish. There is no Fed Bank. If there was, it would not control the S.E.C.
The S.E.C. does not scrutinize and authenticate ownership of stock"

Seriously? You do not know about the Federal Reserve bank an it's most influential bank that is in Manhattan? Wow......just "WOW"....you really are clueless....

"These imaginary 10 year securities would not magically disappear because the WTC collapsed"

They didn't "disappear" but they were able to be cashed out with no scrutiny or authenticity of the S.E.C because they were shut down due to the events of that day.........
Any other questions? I am a "giver" and I am here to help......

.

Ummm, there were 83 camera tapes that were confiscated and any of them could have shown the incredible aeronautical maneuvers that allowed this pilot that couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna plane to fly mere feet off of the ground and hit the Pentagon into the section of the building where people were trying to track the 2.3 trillion dollars that Donald Rumsfeld said on 9/10/01 could not be accounted for......

Yeah, we heard you. 83 cameras. How fast was the plane going?

2.3 trillion, from when to when?
Why would they stop tracking after 9/11?

You must mean the accounting offices of Cantor Fitzgerald...and yes, there were no other records of the accounting and insider trading fraud that was being investigated.

Why would all the trading records of all the exchanges be in the Cantor offices?
If the NYSE investigated Dale Smith Trading, they won't send the original and only NYSE records to Dale Smith Trading to ask you about them. LOL!

Seriously? You do not know about the Federal Reserve bank

So Fed Bank is the Federal Reserve? LOL!
Where does the Fed get the power to tell the S.E.C. to start or stop doing something?
A link to the law involved would be nice.

They didn't "disappear" but they were able to be cashed out with no scrutiny or authenticity of the S.E.C

Maturing securities still mature even after 9/11.
More gibberish.

I am a "giver" and I am here to help......

Good to know. When are you going to give me the speed of the Pentagon plane?

 

[Gamolon]

The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through

Take a look at this link
The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows

Scroll down to the section that starts with:

Pentagon Facade Damage Fits a 757

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon..

How fast was the plane going before impact? At that speed, how many frames should there be?

Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day.

The S.E.C. and the exchanges where these imaginary insider trades occurred would have records of these trades. It's not like the original and only copies would have been sent to Cantor's office just in time for a massive terror attack.

I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership.

Silly gibberish. There is no Fed Bank. If there was, it would not control the S.E.C.
The S.E.C. does not scrutinize and authenticate ownership of stock.

There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from.

These imaginary 10 year securities would not magically disappear because the WTC collapsed.

Yeah, they couldn't possibly fake those at all (rolls eyes). I am not saying that there was no planes or if they were drones or not. What I am 100 percent sure of is that it was an inside job and that explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

explosives were planted in WTC 1,2 and 7.

You know a massive fire tends to screw up explosives, wiring, detonators, right?
And why didn't they find any evidence of explosives, wiring or detonators?

Not before, not during, not after. This despite Port Authority bomb squad, complete with bomb sniffing dogs inspecting the WTC plaza a week before 911. Nor was there a single girder cut in a manner consistent with explosive demolition.

Despite the truther conspiracy requiring tens of thousands of such cuts.

Remember, the WTC 1 and 2 came down exactly opposite of controlled demolition. They collapsed top to bottom, with each floor from the impact site to the ground being destroyed individually. Meaning that each floor would have had to have been demolished *individually*. There are 249 outer panels per floor and 47 core columns. With 77 floors to the ground in one tower and 93 in the other

.....that's about 50,000 individual explosive charges and 50,000 cuts consistent with explosive demolition per the bomb theory.

Yet there were none.

Building 7??????

So you've capitulated the stupidity and overwhelming evidence contradicting the bomb theory for WTC 1 and 2?

If so, please say it.

I know more than you...can't say it any plainer than that. I am willing to give you the benefit of all the time I have spent researching and studying for free. A mind is like a parachute.....only works if it is open.

I know more than you...

Was it explosives or thermite? Or both?

 

[Gamolon]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

It would be helpful if you could post links to the information you are citing or referring to. I know you posted many reasons above, but it's the only way we can all be on the same page.

Can we start with WTC1 and WTC2? Do you think those were controlled demolitions? If so, why? List the reasons and link to information regarding it. Maybe pick one aspect and start there.

 

[Dale Smith]

Dude, you are a time waster...your mind is already made up. I have posted more than enough evidence over the 35 plus pages of this thread that if you don't see the big picture? I can't help you. You are going to have to have your own epiphany like I did. I can't be hard on you because I was just like you for 11 years and busted on every "truther" so I guess this is payback...karma is a bitch.

 

[Skylar]

I appreciate that a lot and I will listen to what you have to say also. When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint but what I did not know and purposely avoided was WTC 7 that was a football field away from WTC 1 and 2. To me, it looks like a totally controlled demolition and it collapses in free fall manner. The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through and there were 80 some odd cameras that were confiscated by the F.B.I and the only footage that has ever been made available to the public is 4 frames and you can't tell what it was that hit the Pentagon...the most secured airspace in the world. What does throw a wrench in my belief is the plane that went down in Pennsylvania...how was it not able to make it's destination if this was suppose to happen? I have learned from my research that WTC 1 and 2 were a losing proposition from the "git go"...2/3rds occupancy and in 1988 it was given a waiver to find away to get rid of the asbestos that was used for insulation and that would have cost a billion dollars for a project that wasn't making money anyway. They even discussed bringing the buildings down but was told that it would have been too big of a health hazard which is obvious by the fact that so many first responders have taken ill and died. What better way to rid yourself of a money pit and collect the insurance than a "terrorist attack"? Just some food for thought. Then there was the S.E.C investigation that was going on concerning inside trading on Wall Street by Cantor Fitzgerald that could have indicted some very important movers and shakers that just so happened to be having a meeting on the 101st floor of WTC 1. All records and hard drives were destroyed that day. I also discovered that with this attack that the Fed Bank shut down the S.E.C and all trades were able to go through with no scrutiny and authenticity of ownership. There was a group led by the Bush family that had bought up 10 year securities in September of 1991 when the Ruble collapsed that were about to expire to the tune of 240 billion dollars that would have raised many questions about where that money to buy them came from. On September 11, 1990, George H Bush gave his speech about a new world order and fulfilling the promise of the U.N's founders. On top of that, it has been revealed that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 and the apparatus to put this total spy grid in place was just waiting for a catastrophic event that would sway the masses to believe that by collecting our on-line data, that we could be safe. PNAC also wrote in 1999 said in one of it's papers suggesting that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor" and they got that with 9/11/01/. I have a lot of questions about the events of that day that eat away at me and I can't shake them.

How fast was the plane going before impact? At that speed, how many frames should there be?"

Ummm, there were 83 camera tapes that were confiscated and any of them could have shown the incredible aeronautical maneuvers that allowed this pilot that couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna plane to fly mere feet off of the ground and hit the Pentagon into the section of the building where people were trying to track the 2.3 trillion dollars that Donald Rumsfeld said on 9/10/01 could not be accounted for......

"The S.E.C. and the exchanges where these imaginary insider trades occurred would have records of these trades. It's not like the original and only copies would have been sent to Cantor's office just in time for a massive terror attack."

You must mean the accounting offices of Cantor Fitzgerald...and yes, there were no other records of the accounting and insider trading fraud that was being investigated.

"Silly gibberish. There is no Fed Bank. If there was, it would not control the S.E.C.
The S.E.C. does not scrutinize and authenticate ownership of stock"

Seriously? You do not know about the Federal Reserve bank an it's most influential bank that is in Manhattan? Wow......just "WOW"....you really are clueless....

"These imaginary 10 year securities would not magically disappear because the WTC collapsed"

They didn't "disappear" but they were able to be cashed out with no scrutiny or authenticity of the S.E.C because they were shut down due to the events of that day.........
Any other questions? I am a "giver" and I am here to help......

.

Ummm, there were 83 camera tapes that were confiscated and any of them could have shown the incredible aeronautical maneuvers that allowed this pilot that couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna plane to fly mere feet off of the ground and hit the Pentagon into the section of the building where people were trying to track the 2.3 trillion dollars that Donald Rumsfeld said on 9/10/01 could not be accounted for......

Yeah, we heard you. 83 cameras. How fast was the plane going?

2.3 trillion, from when to when?
Why would they stop tracking after 9/11?

Oh, its far simpler than that. The 2.3 trillion in transactions schtick wasn't that 2.3 trillion in transactions could not be accounted for, but that the systems tracking these transactions didn't communicate with each other. Making the accounting difficult. It was a call for upgrading the computer equipment at the Pentagon so the different computer systems on different floors could talk to each other:

In fiscal 1999, a defense audit found that about $2.3 trillion of balances, transactions and adjustments were inadequately documented. These "unsupported" transactions do not mean the department ultimately cannot account for them, she advised, but that tracking down needed documents would take a long time. Auditors, she said, might have to go to different computer systems, to different locations or access different databases to get information.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2002/n04032002_200204033.html

Which is made ludicrously obvious when you look at Rumsefeld's WHOLE quote, not just the one sentence Truthers acknowledge exist.

The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/2001/s20010910-secdef.html

Which the Truthers know, of course. But really hope you don't. As usual, their conspiracy depends on the ignorance of their audience.

 

[Skylar]

Dude, you are a time waster...your mind is already made up. I have posted more than enough evidence over the 35 plus pages of this thread that if you don't see the big picture? I can't help you. You are going to have to have your own epiphany like I did. I can't be hard on you because I was just like you for 11 years and busted on every "truther" so I guess this is payback...karma is a bitch.

Says the man who said, and I quote 'Nothing can convince me'. You talk about an open mind, but you've already admitted that there is nothing that can dissuade you from your beliefs.

Nothing can convince you.

Even when you have to abandon your own claims, refusing to even *discuss* your own claims regarding WTC 1 and 2......you still can't admit you were wrong. Even when we caught you in outright lies about your sources, so profound and so obvious that you refuse to discuss them......you still can't admit you were wrong.

Why? Because 'nothing can convince you'.

A rational person could be convinced with evidence. You can't.

 

[Dale Smith]

The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through

Take a look at this link
The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows

Scroll down to the section that starts with:

Pentagon Facade Damage Fits a 757

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for the link...I will definitely check it out in more detail and get back to you with my thoughts. I work third shift so I need to wrap my internet activity up for the day. I have enjoyed the chat...good on ya.

 

[Gamolon]

When I was a skeptic, I used the pancake theory to explain WTC 1 and 2 collapsing into it's own footprint

Here, I see two things that are wrong with what you say.

1. It is no longer a pancake theory in the sense that each level was destroyed in sequence all the way down. The upper section dropped onto the lower section. The upper section was sheared apart and became a mass of descending debris. That mass eventually became too much for the first, upper floor of the lower section and sheared that floor from it's columns (perimeter and core columns). That floor became part of the descending mass. Then that mass hit the next floor of the lower section. That mass continued down shearing floors form their columns. The perimeter columns, with no floors holding them in place, peeled away from the building proper. Here is a photo that proves this. This photo shows the partial remnants of the core with the floors stripped from it before it to collapsed.


2. The towers did NOT fall into their own footprints. The perimeter columns peeled away and fell OUTSIDE of the 208' x 208' footprint. Here is a drawing showing the damage radius. Not a characteristic of controlled demolition at all.

 

[Gamolon]

The Pentagon is another perplexing issue. The hole doesn't seem big enough to fit a plane through

Take a look at this link
The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows

Scroll down to the section that starts with:

Pentagon Facade Damage Fits a 757

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for the link...I will definitely check it out in more detail and get back to you with my thoughts. I work third shift so I need to wrap my internet activity up for the day. I have enjoyed the chat...good on ya.

Yuck, third shift.

 

[Gamolon]

WTC 1 collapsed in 9.2 seconds start to finish.

This is NOT true.

Look up the TOTAL collapse times. From collapse initiation to when the last piece of either tower hit the ground (approximately).

 

[jillian]

The planes impacted about the 92nd floor, which means that only 18 floors were above the impact.

So 18/110 means approximately 16% of the total building's weight was affected.

Now ask yourselves, if you cut the support between 84% of something, and 16% of something, how does that change the relationship that 84% of something can still HOLD THE FUCKING WEIGHT of 16% of something?

The basic principles of engineering would require us to believe that since the building could already support the top floors severed by plane explosions, that the only event that could happen is the top of the buildings would have collapsed onto the remaining 84% and either jammed, or fallen off like the top of a tree breaking off.

When's the last time you saw a branch fall off a tree, and collapse the entire fucking tree?

I say "probably" because I'm trying to think creatively how 16% of something can gain enough "weight" to collapse something that is holding up itself and is 5.25x as massive as the thing falling on it.

Either the acceleration of the remaining 16% is enough to overcome the support allowed by the remaining 84% or it isn't.

Again if it isn't, then it'd just bounce off and fall to the side or fall around it like water balloon falling on a post.

how many times do those conspiracy theories have to be debunked?

 

[Skylar]

WTC 1 collapsed in 9.2 seconds start to finish.

This is NOT true.

Look up the TOTAL collapse times. From collapse initiation to when the last piece of either tower hit the ground (approximately).

The 9.2 second claim is complete horseshit. The first debris ejected from WTC 1 in the initial collapse hit the ground in 9.2 seconds. As it should have.

The tower itself took significantly longer.

 

[Gamolon]

The floors don't carry the weight, asshole, the core carries the weight, and the 84th floor core is designed to carry not just the load of the core above it but the load of the floors above it.

That core is called a core because it is supported by a foundation "tap root". So the 84th floor core is supported entirely and stably by the entire structure and its weight below it.

Now you're telling me, that (in this case) 26 floors, drop 1 floor's distance onto the 84th floor, causing the core to do what exactly?

The core was not like a solid tree truck like you claim. The the floors were not like tree branches like you claim.

The core was composed of 47 vertical columns and the horizontal beams that connected them all together. The key here is CONNECTED together. Now the floors were CONNECTED to the outer perimeter of this core and the inner perimeter of the perimeter columns.

The core was not some solid entity like you claim when comparing it to a tree trunk.

Answer this.

If I removed all the HORIZONTAL components by overstressing/shearing their CONNECTIONS by an immense VERTICAL load, what would remain? All the VERTICAL columns? What would keep them upright? As you said above, the core was supported by the ENTIRE structure.

 

[Skylar]

The floors don't carry the weight, asshole, the core carries the weight, and the 84th floor core is designed to carry not just the load of the core above it but the load of the floors above it.

That core is called a core because it is supported by a foundation "tap root". So the 84th floor core is supported entirely and stably by the entire structure and its weight below it.

Now you're telling me, that (in this case) 26 floors, drop 1 floor's distance onto the 84th floor, causing the core to do what exactly?

The core was not like a solid tree truck like you claim. The the floors were not like tree branches like you claim.

The core was composed of 47 vertical columns and the horizontal beams that connected them all together. The key here is CONNECTED together. Now the floors were CONNECTED to the outer perimeter of this core and the inner perimeter of the perimeter columns.

The core was not some solid entity like you claim when comparing it to a tree trunk.

Answer this.

If I removed all the HORIZONTAL components by overstressing/shearing their CONNECTIONS by an immense VERTICAL load, what would remain? All the VERTICAL columns? What would keep them upright? As you said above, the core was supported by the ENTIRE structure.

Comparing the WTC to a tree trunk is fucking retarded. The WTC was mostly empty air. While a tree trunk is almost entirely solid.