Would blacks be better off without whites?

[Asclepias]

2. Discrimination because of what correlates with race is racism. You cant be that dumb to actually type that and think no one would notice.

This point needs to be isolated and hooted down because it is so damn ridiculous.

Factor A. Factor B correlates with Factor A. Therefore Factor B is the same as Factor A.

That's insane.

Blacks tend to have lower education levels than whites. Hiring based on education level, by your standards, is racism.

Hey stupid you forgot to look at the link. The resumes were equal.

The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller.

"While one may have expected that improved credentials may alleviate employers' fear that African-American applicants are deficient in some unobservable skills, this is not the case in our data," the authors write. "Discrimination therefore appears to bite twice, making it harder not only for African-Americans to find a job but also to improve their employability."

 

[Asclepias]

You say I present no evidence. How did you skip over the link I posted? It was a study with no real people dummy. Go play in the sand box kid. Read the link. Think about your post and try again.

I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear when I stated that you didn't present evidence or argument. Let me correct my error. You didn't present evidence or argument in the first part of your response in which you were focused on your claim of circular arguments. The link you provided didn't pertain to the first part of your comment.

While you correct your error please point out evidence of his argument. Do you see it? I dont.

Saying discrimination is due to a correlation with race is circular dude. Everyday of the week in fact.

Proof of institutional racism does not consist of evidence that blacks have been discriminated against on the basis of race alone. It consists of different outcomes that happen because of what correlates with race.

Its a fancy way of saying racism only exists because of discrimination because of race.

 

[Yarddog]

Theres millions of black and white people who get along just fine except for those who try to stir them up against each other. Think were all here now and wed better learn to deal with it while we still have a chance. If whites go back to Europe, they will be resented there, and if Blacks go back to Africa, I can guarantee they will be resented there. The values are all different, we are Americans now.

 

[Rikurzhen]

While you correct your error please point out evidence of his argument. Do you see it? I dont.

He doesn't put a label on it but what he's talking about is called disparate impact. Outcomes which create racial disparity are assumed to be caused by racism and are punished. Here's an example that Holder's Justice Department thought worthy of purusing:

The Wall Street Journal:

In a complaint filed Wednesday and settled the same day, Justice claimed that California-based Luther Burbank Savings violated the 1968 Fair Housing Act and 1974 Equal Credit Opportunity Act by setting a policy that had a "disparate impact" on minorities. Between 2006 and mid-2011, 5.2% of Luther's single-family residential mortgage loans went to African-Americans and Hispanics, compared to an average of 41.7% for other lenders in the area. The complaint doesn't cite evidence of intentional discrimination because there wasn't any. . . .

Luther Burbank wasn't a fly-by-night operator that marketed those loans to any and all. The bank insisted on a minimum $400,000 loan amount and made loans with an average 680 FICO score and 67% loan-to-value. Over the period that Justice examined, Luther Burbank foreclosed on a mere 11 borrowers out of 629 loans outstanding—a loss ratio of 1.75%. In a normal world, Luther Burbank would get a medal from regulators for its risk management, having chosen borrowers even at the height of the housing mania who could meet their monthly payments.

But Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Thomas Perez has a different priority: He wants banks to meet lending quotas to minorities—regardless of whether those borrowers can afford the loans. Many minority borrowers have low incomes that make them riskier lending bets. Is that a bank's fault?

Luther Burbank admitted no guilt and said it settled to avoid costly litigation, which makes sense for a small, local lender that has to worry about its reputational risk. The bank has agreed to ratchet down its minimum loan to $20,000 and will now commit $2.2 million to a "special financing program" for "qualified borrowers," payouts for local community groups, and "consumer education programs." Justice has the final say on who gets that money.​

Here's another example, also spurred on the Holder's DOJ which complained about too many young black and Hispanic men being disciplined in school. No one alleges that teachers are targeting based on race, they're simply asserting that it is racist that there exists disparate impact:

John E. Deasy, superintendent of the Los Angeles Unified School District, said he was eager to share some successful tactics with other school systems. In Los Angeles, he said the district reduced its annual suspensions from 50,000 in the 2009-2010 school year to 8,000 this past school year, in part because of a new policy eliminating “willful defiance” as a reason for suspension. ​

So when students in class were willfully defiant of the teacher, and more blacks tend to be willfully defiant than whites, this resulted in more blacks being disciplined. How damn racist. But now the problem of this racism is solved. Being willfully defiant of your teacher is no longer a discipinable action, hence no racial disparity in discipline can result. Tell your teacher to Fuck Off and the teacher can't do anything about it anymore and see, no more racism.

 

[Asclepias]

While you correct your error please point out evidence of his argument. Do you see it? I dont.

He doesn't put a label on it but what he's talking about is called disparate impact. Outcomes which create racial disparity are assumed to be caused by racism and are punished. Here's an example that Holder's Justice Department thought worthy of purusing:

The Wall Street Journal:

In a complaint filed Wednesday and settled the same day, Justice claimed that California-based Luther Burbank Savings violated the 1968 Fair Housing Act and 1974 Equal Credit Opportunity Act by setting a policy that had a "disparate impact" on minorities. Between 2006 and mid-2011, 5.2% of Luther's single-family residential mortgage loans went to African-Americans and Hispanics, compared to an average of 41.7% for other lenders in the area. The complaint doesn't cite evidence of intentional discrimination because there wasn't any. . . .

Luther Burbank wasn't a fly-by-night operator that marketed those loans to any and all. The bank insisted on a minimum $400,000 loan amount and made loans with an average 680 FICO score and 67% loan-to-value. Over the period that Justice examined, Luther Burbank foreclosed on a mere 11 borrowers out of 629 loans outstanding—a loss ratio of 1.75%. In a normal world, Luther Burbank would get a medal from regulators for its risk management, having chosen borrowers even at the height of the housing mania who could meet their monthly payments.

But Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Thomas Perez has a different priority: He wants banks to meet lending quotas to minorities—regardless of whether those borrowers can afford the loans. Many minority borrowers have low incomes that make them riskier lending bets. Is that a bank's fault?

Luther Burbank admitted no guilt and said it settled to avoid costly litigation, which makes sense for a small, local lender that has to worry about its reputational risk. The bank has agreed to ratchet down its minimum loan to $20,000 and will now commit $2.2 million to a "special financing program" for "qualified borrowers," payouts for local community groups, and "consumer education programs." Justice has the final say on who gets that money.​

Here's another example, also spurred on the Holder's DOJ which complained about too many young black and Hispanic men being disciplined in school. No one alleges that teachers are targeting based on race, they're simply asserting that it is racist that there exists disparate impact:

John E. Deasy, superintendent of the Los Angeles Unified School District, said he was eager to share some successful tactics with other school systems. In Los Angeles, he said the district reduced its annual suspensions from 50,000 in the 2009-2010 school year to 8,000 this past school year, in part because of a new policy eliminating “willful defiance” as a reason for suspension. ​

So when students in class were willfully defiant of the teacher, and more blacks tend to be willfully defiant than whites, this resulted in more blacks being disciplined. How damn racist. But now the problem of this racism is solved. Being willfully defiant of your teacher is no longer a discipinable action, hence no racial disparity in discipline can result. Tell your teacher to Fuck Off and the teacher can't do anything about it anymore and see, no more racism.

You typed that long winded post and never showed me where he posted his evidence. If he doesn't provide that proof make sure you correct him before attempting to correct me. Not only that, it appears you have no clue what institutional racism is. Dont feel bad. In your eagerness to protect your buddy you made a mistake. No biggie. Institutional racism can be intentional or unintentional as long as it has a negative affect on people due to race.

 

[Rikurzhen]

No biggie. Institutional racism can be intentional or unintentional as long as it has a negative affect on people due to race.

A bank only wants to lend to people with low risk of default. God damned dirty racists. That'll cost them a $2.2 million fine. How dare they want to protect their loan portfolio and only experience a 1.75% loss ratio.

It's more important to make risky loans to black people than it is to protect their depositor's money.

A teacher wants to maintain control over his classroom so that students can learn lessons in a safe and non-distracting environment. How dare the teacher discipline students for willful defiance. God damned dirty racists. Now teachers can't discipline willfully defiant students and that institutional racism has been erased. Too bad for the students who have to deal with a disrupted classroom environment where willfully defiant students must now be allowed to act out without hindrance.

Institutional racism is a bullshit concept that is vaporware.

 

[Friends]

Proof of institutional racism does not consist of evidence that blacks have been discriminated against on the basis of race alone. It consists of different outcomes that happen because of what correlates with race.

Its a fancy way of saying racism only exists because of discrimination because of race.

No it is not. It is a common sense way of saying that because blacks are more likely to be discipline problems in school more of them deserve to be expelled. Because blacks are more likely to be criminals more of them deserve to be put in prison. Because blacks are more likely to be incompetent fewer of them deserve to be hired for well paying jobs.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it with their crime, their stupidity, and their legions of illegitimate children, which they expect whites to support on welfare.

Some whites dislike Jews and Asians. They resent them because the Jews and Asians are more intelligent, and earn more money.

 

[Friends]

Hey stupid you forgot to look at the link. The resumes were equal.

They looked equal. Because of affirmative action credentials of blacks are always dubious. That is why it is important for prospective employers to give job applicants mental aptitude tests. Unfortunately, courts have restricted the use of these tests.

The employment decision is intensely personal. A boss wants to hire people he will enjoy working with, and who will be liked by co-workers and the customers of his company.

Orientals and Jews tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles. Homosexuals tend to be more intelligent than heterosexuals of the same race. A boss who refuses to hire Orientals, Jews, and/or homosexuals will lose competent people to competitors. A boss who refuses to hire blacks will lose very few competent people. He will avoid a lot of discipline and performance problems.

 

[reconmark]

No biggie. Institutional racism can be intentional or unintentional as long as it has a negative affect on people due to race.

A bank only wants to lend to people with low risk of default. God damned dirty racists. That'll cost them a $2.2 million fine. How dare they want to protect their loan portfolio and only experience a 1.75% loss ratio.

It's more important to make risky loans to black people than it is to protect their depositor's money.


Can you give anymore stupid assed examples that have no basis in fact????
How dare those Black people with the same credit as White people ask for equitable financing...the nerve...


An investigation by the department’s civil rights division found that mortgage brokers working with Wells Fargo had charged higher fees and rates to more than 30,000 minority borrowers across the country than they had to white borrowers who posed the same credit risk, according to a complaint filed on Thursday along with the proposed settlement.

Wells Fargo brokers also steered more than 4,000 minority borrowers into costlier subprime mortgages when white borrowers with similar credit risk profiles had received regular loans

Similarly, it said, the data showed that nationwide, an African-American borrower who had qualified for a regular loan was 2.9 times more likely to be steered into a subprime loan, and a Hispanic borrower was 1.8 times more likely, than were similarly creditworthy white borrowers. Subprime loans, which are intended for riskier borrowers, carry higher interest rates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/b...tle-mortgage-discrimination-charges.html?_r=0

A teacher wants to maintain control over his classroom so that students can learn lessons in a safe and non-distracting environment. How dare the teacher discipline students for willful defiance. God damned dirty racists. Now teachers can't discipline willfully defiant students and that institutional racism has been erased. Too bad for the students who have to deal with a disrupted classroom environment where willfully defiant students must now be allowed to act out without hindrance.

If they want to maintain control maybe they should order students to attack other students..works in your world...huh??

Teacher Fired after ordering six students to beat another student
PORT ST LUCIE, FL–A teacher in Florida has been fired, after she essentially ordered a hit on another student, all in the name of “teaching him a lesson.”
Teacher Fired after ordering six students to beat another student

Institutional racism is a bullshit concept that is vaporware.

How about you stop trolling???

 

[reconmark]

Hey stupid you forgot to look at the link. The resumes were equal.

They looked equal. Because of affirmative action credentials of blacks are always dubious. That is why it is important for prospective employers to give job applicants mental aptitude tests. Unfortunately, courts have restricted the use of these tests.

The employment decision is intensely personal. A boss wants to hire people he will enjoy working with, and who will be liked by co-workers and the customers of his company.

Orientals and Jews tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles. Homosexuals tend to be more intelligent than heterosexuals of the same race. A boss who refuses to hire Orientals, Jews, and/or homosexuals will lose competent people to competitors. A boss who refuses to hire blacks will lose very few competent people. He will avoid a lot of discipline and performance problems.

Do you have a link that AF inflated someone's credentials or are you letting your sphincter do the talking for you???

 

[reconmark]

Proof of institutional racism does not consist of evidence that blacks have been discriminated against on the basis of race alone. It consists of different outcomes that happen because of what correlates with race.

Its a fancy way of saying racism only exists because of discrimination because of race.

No it is not. It is a common sense way of saying that because blacks are more likely to be discipline problems in school more of them deserve to be expelled. Because blacks are more likely to be criminals more of them deserve to be put in prison. Because blacks are more likely to be incompetent fewer of them deserve to be hired for well paying jobs.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it with their crime, their stupidity, and their legions of illegitimate children, which they expect whites to support on welfare.

Some whites dislike Jews and Asians. They resent them because the Jews and Asians are more intelligent, and earn more money.

And many Whites resent me because I'm more educated, intelligent and earn more money.
So what's the excuse for the continuing rise in White illegitimacy, White's use of drugs and increased incarceration, why are more White people on public assistance than Blacks or any other racial group???

Unfortunately for the less intelligent Whites, as the artificial crutches that afforded them a privilege are crumbling away, minorities of all types are passing them by.

If that makes you resentful...oh well.

 

[reconmark]

Theres millions of black and white people who get along just fine except for those who try to stir them up against each other. Think were all here now and wed better learn to deal with it while we still have a chance. If whites go back to Europe, they will be resented there, and if Blacks go back to Africa, I can guarantee they will be resented there. The values are all different, we are Americans now.

Common sense, too bad so many aren't intellectually capable of understanding it.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Theres millions of black and white people who get along just fine except for those who try to stir them up against each other. Think were all here now and wed better learn to deal with it while we still have a chance. If whites go back to Europe, they will be resented there, and if Blacks go back to Africa, I can guarantee they will be resented there. The values are all different, we are Americans now.

Common sense, too bad so many aren't intellectually capable of understanding it.

They can get along well enough when white society buys off black society with special gimmes. That model of "buying peace" worked well enough back when the Civil Rights legislation was launched, a time when there 5.5 white people per 1 black person. The carrying cost to white society was manageable.

All those goodies that white society uses to buy off black society have also been extended to other minority groups. This is now approaching unmanageable territory. Instead of 5.5 people paying for the special benefits directed at one person we're now down to 1.7 whites paying for every minority person and last year our kindergarten classes finally became majority minority group, so in the coming years we're going to be seeing 1 white person trying to subsidize > 1 minority people.

Peace can be bought when 5.5 people carry the one, but peace will fray when one person has to carry 1.2 people. The cost of peace becomes unmanageable.

 

[reconmark]

Theres millions of black and white people who get along just fine except for those who try to stir them up against each other. Think were all here now and wed better learn to deal with it while we still have a chance. If whites go back to Europe, they will be resented there, and if Blacks go back to Africa, I can guarantee they will be resented there. The values are all different, we are Americans now.

Common sense, too bad so many aren't intellectually capable of understanding it.

They can get along well enough when white society buys off black society with special gimmes. That model of "buying peace" worked well enough back when the Civil Rights legislation was launched, a time when there 5.5 white people per 1 black person. The carrying cost to white society was manageable.

All those goodies that white society uses to buy off black society have also been extended to other minority groups. This is now approaching unmanageable territory. Instead of 5.5 people paying for the special benefits directed at one person we're now down to 1.7 whites paying for every minority person and last year our kindergarten classes finally became majority minority group, so in the coming years we're going to be seeing 1 white person trying to subsidize > 1 minority people.

Peace can be bought when 5.5 people carry the one, but peace will fray when one person has to carry 1.2 people. The cost of peace becomes unmanageable.

Some of us including myself live and contribute to the real world, not some imagined fantasy of "the white man's burden".
I haven't had anything given to me nor any other person that I know.

Maybe, just maybe our hard work is the reason we have what we have...what a novel idea...

 

[Rikurzhen]

Some of us including myself live and contribute to the real world, not some imagined fantasy of "the white man's burden".
I haven't had anything given to me nor any other person that I know.

Maybe, just maybe our hard work is the reason we have what we have...what a novel idea...

I don't know your personal circumstances so I can't comment there, but speaking generally, most blacks working for government weren't hired on merit, else they wouldn't continually be suing government agencies for using objective civil service exams to qualify people worthy of being hired.

Suing to throw out objective measures and replace them with racial quotas does not speak to fairness nor merit and so those who are hired are being given something that they don't earn and don't deserve. A handout disguised as a real job.

 

[reconmark]

Some of us including myself live and contribute to the real world, not some imagined fantasy of "the white man's burden".
I haven't had anything given to me nor any other person that I know.

Maybe, just maybe our hard work is the reason we have what we have...what a novel idea...

I don't know your personal circumstances so I can't comment there, but speaking generally, most blacks working for government weren't hired on merit, else they wouldn't continually be suing government agencies for using objective civil service exams to qualify people worthy of being hired.

Suing to throw out objective measures and replace them with racial quotas does not speak to fairness nor merit and so those who are hired are being given something that they don't earn and don't deserve. A handout disguised as a real job.

I would submit that you can't speak factually as to how MOST Black people got their jobs, how do you factually present a compelling argument that MOST Blacks did not receive their jobs based on merit?

Please present the evidence that substantiates any company that has been punished, rewarded or in some manner positively impacted by adherence to an official policy of quotas??

On the other hand, I can factually support the argument that for hundreds of years intelligent, moral and capable Blacks were routinely denied jobs, training and educational opportunities simply because they were Black.

I can factually make the case that the Federal Government was the only place that would hire Black people based on merit along with the other attributes needed to perform the job.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Its a fancy way of saying racism only exists because of discrimination because of race.

No it is not. It is a common sense way of saying that because blacks are more likely to be discipline problems in school more of them deserve to be expelled. Because blacks are more likely to be criminals more of them deserve to be put in prison. Because blacks are more likely to be incompetent fewer of them deserve to be hired for well paying jobs.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it with their crime, their stupidity, and their legions of illegitimate children, which they expect whites to support on welfare.

Some whites dislike Jews and Asians. They resent them because the Jews and Asians are more intelligent, and earn more money.

And many Whites resent me because I'm more educated, intelligent and earn more money.
So what's the excuse for the continuing rise in White illegitimacy, White's use of drugs and increased incarceration, why are more White people on public assistance than Blacks or any other racial group???

Unfortunately for the less intelligent Whites, as the artificial crutches that afforded them a privilege are crumbling away, minorities of all types are passing them by.

If that makes you resentful...oh well.

First of all they don't resent your color so much as your position in life...thats what liberals do. They cant stand to see anyone succeed.

And you are being totally disingenuous when it comes to incarceration and public assistance rates. Because I know damn good and well you understand percentages.
So which is it? You a liar or just plain stupid?
Here's my outlook on race relations.
I dont give a rats ass what color you are as long as you show respect to the people around you and are a productive member of society. Anytime someone wants to tell me how their race is superior I stop listening.
I will say this. More and more blacks are starting to see the light. The difference between the blacks now and twenty years ago is dramatic. They no longer speak in ebonics and they are realizing acting counter to the norm is whats holds them back,not their color.
And I have to say....if you want to make the white folks feel threatened? Be the better person.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I would submit that you can't speak factually as to how MOST Black people got their jobs, how do you factually present a compelling argument that MOST Blacks did not receive their jobs based on merit?

I can speak to the blacks who work for government. When objective test after objective test is sued out of existence because not enough blacks qualified to be hired and subsequently blacks are hired, then they were hired through a politicized system and so their jobs are a form of hand-out to shut them up. They most certainly didn't EARN their position.

Here is the exam that was used in NYC and which black firefighters said was discriminatory. Give me a freaking break. Spend some time and read through the exam.

 

[reconmark]

No it is not. It is a common sense way of saying that because blacks are more likely to be discipline problems in school more of them deserve to be expelled. Because blacks are more likely to be criminals more of them deserve to be put in prison. Because blacks are more likely to be incompetent fewer of them deserve to be hired for well paying jobs.

Racism exists because blacks reinforce it with their crime, their stupidity, and their legions of illegitimate children, which they expect whites to support on welfare.

Some whites dislike Jews and Asians. They resent them because the Jews and Asians are more intelligent, and earn more money.

And many Whites resent me because I'm more educated, intelligent and earn more money.
So what's the excuse for the continuing rise in White illegitimacy, White's use of drugs and increased incarceration, why are more White people on public assistance than Blacks or any other racial group???

Unfortunately for the less intelligent Whites, as the artificial crutches that afforded them a privilege are crumbling away, minorities of all types are passing them by.

If that makes you resentful...oh well.

First of all they don't resent your color so much as your position in life...thats what liberals do. They cant stand to see anyone succeed.

And you are being totally disingenuous when it comes to incarceration and public assistance rates. Because I know damn good and well you understand percentages.
So which is it? You a liar or just plain stupid?
Here's my outlook on race relations.
I dont give a rats ass what color you are as long as you show respect to the people around you and are a productive member of society. Anytime someone wants to tell me how their race is superior I stop listening.
I will say this. More and more blacks are starting to see the light. The difference between the blacks now and twenty years ago is dramatic. They no longer speak in ebonics and they are realizing acting counter to the norm is whats holds them back,not their color.
And I have to say....if you want to make the white folks feel threatened? Be the better person.

Now to correct your obvious mistakes.
First, my statement is totally factual; there are indeed more White people on Govt assistance than Black people. Do you deny that fact or are you plain stupid???

Secondly, I never stated that I wanted Whites to feel threatened, why are you lying on me, what's your agenda??

disingenuous???..when it comes to the ever increasing White incarceration rates and the fact that the majority of people on public assistance are White people???

Why is it disingenuous...because you don't like the numbers ???

As long as certain folk can use "percentages" as a tool to attempt to make one group look bad, while at the same time turning a blind eye to the sheer numbers that comprise a higher numerical amount of the other group, it gives me pause as to their intellectual honesty.

 

[reconmark]

I would submit that you can't speak factually as to how MOST Black people got their jobs, how do you factually present a compelling argument that MOST Blacks did not receive their jobs based on merit?

I can speak to the blacks who work for government. When objective test after objective test is sued out of existence because not enough blacks qualified to be hired and subsequently blacks are hired, then they were hired through a politicized system and so their jobs are a form of hand-out to shut them up. They most certainly didn't EARN their position.

Here is the exam that was used in NYC and which black firefighters said was discriminatory. Give me a freaking break. Spend some time and read through the exam.

The central issue in the case is whether the skills measured by the FDNY’s written exam have any relationship to skills necessary to be a good firefighter – the EEOC and DOJ have concluded that they do not. CCR contends that there is no reason the City should be using this test to hire firefighters and that continuing to use it is against the law.
United States of America and Vulcan Society, Inc. v. City of New York

Actually you just proved that you can't speak for Black people that work for government.
You stated that MOST BLACK PEOPLE did not receive their jobs based on merit, now as proof of that allegation you post a lawsuit from one city entity???

This is supposed to be proof that MOST BLACK PEOPLE working for Federal, State, county and city government were not hired based on merit????...I think you should give me a friggin' break..lol.

then they were hired through a politicized system

Recently an appellate court in New Jersey
ruled that it was not unlawful to pass
over firefighter applicants to hire candidate
s that are related to current or former
city employees. The state’s discrimination
laws did not include “familial status,”
as an unlawful employment practice. The panel said:

New Jersey and New York have hired through nepotism for over a century and only now do you have an issue with "fairness?"