Would you support anti abortion legislation as long as it included exceptions?

[amrchaos]

Return the matter to the individual states. Let them decide what is best for them.

What is the point?

If someone lived in an "PRO-LIFE" state, all they have to do is go across the border to a "PRO-CHOICE" state and get an abortion. The only thing accomplished by letting the state choose is to set up a kind of "blue laws" that has been shown not to work near the borders of those states.

Regardless of what you think, abortion is a federal issue since it involves an unborn citizen of the nation. Their "state" can change by the parent moving just temporarily.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, many people who have babies they didn't plan or particularly want, initially, make splendid parents. I know lots of them.

Besides which, there is no law that says you may not put your baby up for adoption.

Aside from that, there is absolutely no stats to support any of the nonsense you are spouting. And YOU are the one who claimed that legal = moral.

The fact that the people you know make splendid parents if an unwanted pregnancy occurs says more about you and your friends than it does about how a prostitute, drug addict, or teenage mother would raise an unwanted baby. My guess is that none of the parents of unwanted babies you know are prostitutes, mentally ill, or drug additcs...and if they were...it is probably outside of then norm for unwanted babies

The problems with forcing a woman to carry a baby and put it up for adoption, include the fact that once the baby is born, many unfit mothers change thier minds about the adoption. Babies can also be born with horrific drug related defects that end up in suffering for all involved.

Why do you think I should put up stats?...I haven't made any assertions, and I'm just trying to get you to prove yours.

You made the assertions that when abortion is legalized, abuse and neglect increases, and you made the assertion that abortion is used as a tool by despotic leaders and liberals to exterminate the poor or enemies.

Don't ask me to do your homework. If you're right, I'll admit it.

Dear God, I am SICK AND TIRED of the idea that we're supposed to base public policy on a handful of abnormal "hard cases". I don't buy the idea that abortion should be legal any time, any place, for any reason just because leftists want to blather about incest and rape, and I'm not going to buy "Children are better off dead than born to a prostitute or drug addict". Do you REALLY think that all, most, or even a significant percentage of the women who get abortions every year are prostitutes and drug addicts? Seriously? Because if not, you haven't articulated a significant, meaningful aspect of public policy. All you've done is blow a smokescreen to hide behind.

 

[koshergrl]

They ignore the stats, they ignore the facts, it isn't about that.

It's about getting rid of a population they hate. It's eugenics.

 

[toxicmedia]

Actually, many people who have babies they didn't plan or particularly want, initially, make splendid parents. I know lots of them.

Besides which, there is no law that says you may not put your baby up for adoption.

Aside from that, there is absolutely no stats to support any of the nonsense you are spouting. And YOU are the one who claimed that legal = moral.

The fact that the people you know make splendid parents if an unwanted pregnancy occurs says more about you and your friends than it does about how a prostitute, drug addict, or teenage mother would raise an unwanted baby. My guess is that none of the parents of unwanted babies you know are prostitutes, mentally ill, or drug additcs...and if they were...it is probably outside of then norm for unwanted babies

The problems with forcing a woman to carry a baby and put it up for adoption, include the fact that once the baby is born, many unfit mothers change thier minds about the adoption. Babies can also be born with horrific drug related defects that end up in suffering for all involved.

Why do you think I should put up stats?...I haven't made any assertions, and I'm just trying to get you to prove yours.

You made the assertions that when abortion is legalized, abuse and neglect increases, and you made the assertion that abortion is used as a tool by despotic leaders and liberals to exterminate the poor or enemies.

Don't ask me to do your homework. If you're right, I'll admit it.

Actually, I've known many addicts, I've worked with them in treatment, and their children, and still do.

So you think that if a woman changes her mind about adoption and keeps the baby, that she should have just killed the baby outright?

Lol..you certainly think a lot of women. And this is what it comes down to. The pro-abortionists believe the population is vile, they don't care what happens to them, they want their children dead and they want the women themselves out of the picture.

If you are working with women in recovery, they have support that is not always available to addicts/alchoholics that are using, and if they are available, alchoholic/addicts may not try to take advantage of those services.

I have to say I admire the work you've done, and respect you for doing it.

I've done counseling for addicts/alchoholics before for our city and the VA, and that's aprt of where my views come from. I've met young people who have had horrific lives, and way too many of them have suffered so much that I wonder if they'd hve been better off not born.

I'm not for abortion........I'm just against creating lives full of suffering and early deaths at the hands of unfit parents who were forced to have a child.

I absolutely disagree with the idea that pro-abortionists believe the population is vile, they don't care what happens to them, they want their children dead, and they want the women themselves out of the picture. None of the people at planned parenthood, or people I know who are pro choice think that.....and you have your right to an opinion....but I would highly persuade you to reconsider that. Has anyone who supports rightis to choose actualy said that to you?....or has somebody told you they think that?

 

[koshergrl]

It doesn't matter if you agree. It is what it is. I've had posters on this board tell me that the children of poor women with more than one child are "less valuable" than only children of more stable parents.

I worked in residential treatment. Also in detention.

 

[toxicmedia]

They ignore the stats, they ignore the facts, it isn't about that.

It's about getting rid of a population they hate. It's eugenics.

That is so wrong.

Eugenics was a naive movement in the early 20th century, and some racists in the US, and later Nazis in Europe latched on to the idea with malice.

As for Margaret Sanger, and other hipster/intellectuals at the time, really just toyed with the idea of selective breeding, and harmlessly mused about selective breeding. Sanger's goal was to give birth control to the women who were impoversihed, and still forced by thier preists and husbands to keep having children till they died. Sanger also hated the state these kids were forced to grow up in. Today's slums are paradises compared to turn of the century tenaments.

This notion that there is an evil human hating element to Planned Parenthood or Pro Choice folks just is NOT true, generally.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is a human despising element among those who put pro-birth before pro-life.

 

[amrchaos]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

 

[toxicmedia]

And regarding the incidence of child abuse, child murder, etc. that has increased since the advent of legalized abortion, visit the CDC or Guttmacher websites. The stats are there. Incidence of women's cancer has increased exponentially as well...and in Poland, cancer incidence increased with legalized abortion, then decreased when it was pulled from the table.

All true. You don't have to do my homework, I've already done it. I've linked this stuff dozens and dozens of times on this site. The Poland study info is the thread "Yes, Virginia"

What you haven't proven, is that child abuse, child murder, cervical cancer, etc has gone up since abortion was legalized....because....abortion was legalized.

I could easilly say legalized abortion caused man to rocket to them moon, or caused WWII...and it still makes no sense that killing a fetus causes other born children to be abused.

 

[syrenn]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

I agree. Its one of my pet peeves about the pro lifers.

I also feel that the pro life people should foot the entire financial bill for the care, feeding and housing of the "saved" child.

 

[toxicmedia]

It doesn't matter if you agree. It is what it is. I've had posters on this board tell me that the children of poor women with more than one child are "less valuable" than only children of more stable parents.

I worked in residential treatment. Also in detention.

Anyone who tells you "the children of poor women with more than one child are "less valuable" than only children of more stable parents" is an idiot.

I don't know any pro choice people who would make a statement like this. If there are nut jobs on this board who say that, that isn't proof that Planned Parenthood or Pro Choice people thinks that too.

 

[syrenn]

And regarding the incidence of child abuse, child murder, etc. that has increased since the advent of legalized abortion, visit the CDC or Guttmacher websites. The stats are there. Incidence of women's cancer has increased exponentially as well...and in Poland, cancer incidence increased with legalized abortion, then decreased when it was pulled from the table.

All true. You don't have to do my homework, I've already done it. I've linked this stuff dozens and dozens of times on this site. The Poland study info is the thread "Yes, Virginia"

The increase in cancer has nothing to do with abortions. Having an abortion has nothing to do with the risk factors of cervical cancer.

sex however does.

 

[toxicmedia]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

Absolutely!...the moralize and let all manner of parental instinct or estrogen inspired high drama fly loose, and don't think about what experience the child they forced the mother to have will live through.

Oustanding idea...and to expand on it, we should have special elections in each state to ban abortion, and it won't be a secret ballott. Everybody who voted to ban abortion must sign a contract to provide children assigned to them al loving home, financial support, and a college education if the kid wants to go.

That way, people who have nothing to do with a woman being forced to have a baby won't have to pay for it, and all who do, have to pay the cost of thier beliefs

 

[g5000]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

I agree. Its one of my pet peeves about the pro lifers.

I also feel that the pro life people should foot the entire financial bill for the care, feeding and housing of the "saved" child.

Illogical.

Abortion is considered to be murder. If we were to use the same illogic for murder that you use for abortion, then everyone who is against murder would be forced to take care of someone who a murderer would have otherwise killed.

You'd be writing checks to Nicole Simpson right now.

 

[toxicmedia]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

I agree. Its one of my pet peeves about the pro lifers.

I also feel that the pro life people should foot the entire financial bill for the care, feeding and housing of the "saved" child.

Illogical.

Abortion is considered to be murder. If we were to use the same illogic for murder that you use for abortion, then everyone who is against murder would be forced to take care of someone who a murderer would have otherwise killed.

You'd be writing checks to Nicole Simpson right now.

It is absolutely and perfectly logical.

The key component of "murder" is that it is an "unlawfull killing"....and if it's a first or second trimester abortion, in most states, it's not illegal, therefore NOT murder.

1mur·der noun \ˈmər-dər\
Definition of MURDER
1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

 

[koshergrl]

Logical fallacy. It is illogical.

Try to stick to the subject at hand.

 

[syrenn]

I have an idea.

Why don't we build a database of all people that are pro-life and willing to take care of another child.

Then when someone that is thinking about an abortion could easily put their child up for "REARING" by a Pro-life guardian. Of course it is understood that the biological parent is still the mother, but the pro-lifer is to help nourish and raise the child. Kind of like a god-parent that provides resources yet is legally binded to help take care of the child.

I bet an idea like this will cut down on abortions.

I agree. Its one of my pet peeves about the pro lifers.

I also feel that the pro life people should foot the entire financial bill for the care, feeding and housing of the "saved" child.

Illogical.

Abortion is considered to be murder. If we were to use the same illogic for murder that you use for abortion, then everyone who is against murder would be forced to take care of someone who a murderer would have otherwise killed.

You'd be writing checks to Nicole Simpson right now.

i hate to tell you .. abortion is not considered murder.

 

[koshergrl]

Sure it is.

Just not by you.

 

[syrenn]

Sure it is.

Just not by you.

and right back at ya.


its not murder.... you just want it to be.

 

[toxicmedia]

Logical fallacy. It is illogical.

Try to stick to the subject at hand.

Oh...have you decided to change the definition of murder?...it wouldn't surprise me if you did. Many Christian social fundementalists have redefined words like "murder", "socialism", "marxism", "conservative" etc....

Abortion is not murder.....it is...."homicide", "killing", and "termination" to name a few.