Would you support subsidizing...

[Missourian]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

That's China's medically based work rehab program for drug use. I would support it..

 

[Brain357]

We tried to protect the steel industry, they are now having huge layoffs. Protectionist policy never works.

 

[Siete]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

industry has outsourced - it wont be back

end of story

That is an opinion...don't mistake it for a fact.

you're a moron - as noted, labor costs rule business

aint nobody pulling up stakes, and moving the company away from cheap labor- NOBODY.

FACT

 

[g5000]

Politicians throw out crowd-pleasing horseshit about "bringing the jobs back home". They are full of shit, and they count on the rube herd not to catch on.

Nobody wants to do the heavy lifting. Real solutions that will actually work are very difficult. They take time and resources. In our maddening impulsive "fix it now" culture, we are shooting ourselves in the face.

What's more, the future jobs are not going to be in manufacturing. They are in the entertainment and services industry.

Anyone who promises to bring back manufacturing jobs in a big way are lying to you. Flat out lying. The most they can achieve is to move the peg a very tiny bit.

 

[Brain357]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

 

[CWayne]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

No.

They feel pressure to move back to the US to do business, they can pay for it out of pocket. Just like they did when they felt it was profitable to move OUT of the US.

 

[Missourian]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I think for consumer luxuries, it would hamper advancements and competition.

If it isn't a national security issue? It probably would only hurt advancements and competition.

Huawei Has Taken Over Apple's Market Share In China; It Will Get Worse

I can agree with that. That was more my own strawman than a serious suggestion. Although if I believed it were possible I would support it.

Unfortunately I do not.

 

[CWayne]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

 

[g5000]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

Nope. Blaming China is textbook misdirection by demagogues.

Our biggest problem is us. We've gotten fat, dumb, and lazy.

 

[g5000]

You feel the need to subsidize something? Look at our education system. It fucking sucks. That's where our biggest problem is, not China.

"Oh, no! He's going socialist!"

 

[Nosmo King]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

What would Capitalists do?

 

[Brain357]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

Really? Unemployment is super low and we have more wealth than ever. What problem are they to blame for?

 

[g5000]

Science and math. We're falling on our faces.

We still have the best universities for science and math. That's why students from all over the planet come here. Especially India and China. We are literally exporting brain power.

It's the K-12 system which sucks. We seriously need to fix it.

Unfortunately, even our education system has become politicized. You mention education, and pseudocons immediately assume you are some kind of pinko fag teacher's union mud wallower.

 

[Missourian]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

We are far more likely to have shortages if you try to only produce those items here, see the USSR.

Trust me...I'll be the first to state full-throatedly...I am woefully undereducated to even partake in this discussion, much less lead a defense of my own statement. This topic comes from a common sense - I can see where this leads perspective. I fully understand that what seems right to me, what is actually right and what is possible may be far removed from each other.

 

[toomuchtime_]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

If our companies are not efficient enough to compete on a level playing field, then we should move investment to other fields in which we are more competitive, but if they are failing because of unfair trade practices by other countries, then I would support the use of tariffs to level the playing field. Because of the size of our economy, that would have the same protective effect as subsidies in our domestic markets.

 

[g5000]

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

Really? Unemployment is super low and we have more wealth than ever. What problem are they to blame for?

The distribution of wealth is horribly skewed. Sure, people have jobs, but they don't pay much. Unless you're a Wall Street trader or a CEO.

We have legislatively tilted the playing field to give an advantage to the last people who need an advantage. We need to fix that. That is why I am constantly harping on tax expenditures.

 

[Missourian]

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

Really? Unemployment is super low and we have more wealth than ever. What problem are they to blame for?

In my opinion...the service economy model is unsustainable...and I think we're about to find out how unsustainable it is.

 

[Brain357]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

We are far more likely to have shortages if you try to only produce those items here, see the USSR.

Trust me...I'll be the first to state full-throatedly...I am woefully undereducated to even partake in this discussion, much less lead a defense of my own statement. This topic comes from a common sense - I can see where this leads perspective. I fully understand that what seems right to me, what is actually right and what is possible may be far removed from each other.

The more we try to control production the more we will have problems like Venezuela, Cuba, and the old USSR...

 

[Brain357]

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

I get that. But in the long term we are strengthening China and weakening our own economy. If we wish to continue our current standard of living, we should be thinking long term and not selling our future for a very temporary wage advantage...IMO.

We have tons of wealth and jobs. China is not the problem..

LMFAO

China IS the problem for about 95% if the shit we are going through.

Really? Unemployment is super low and we have more wealth than ever. What problem are they to blame for?

The distribution of wealth is horribly skewed. Sure, people have jobs, but they don't pay much. Unless you're a Wall Street trader or a CEO.

We have legislatively tilted the playing field to give an advantage to the last people who need an advantage. We need to fix that. That is why I am constantly harping on tax expenditures.

Yes that is the point I was getting at. We took power away from the workers, not China. We have the wealth and jobs, our workers have little power however.