Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights

[there4eyeM]

Any truly 'inalienable' rights would be universal. Perhaps some interpret the phrase to mean such 'rights' are incapable of applying to an 'alien'?

 

[Lewdog]

Now that you finally admitted it is a statutory law... but hey you think you got all this figured out and you want to now tuck your tail between your legs and run.

Besides I really have no use arguing with some stupid simpleton fuck that argued for multiple pages that illegal aliens aren't people until the courts say they are. If you are a Black man you should be ashamed of yourself for even having the audacity to make an argument like that.

Nope, I don't EVER tuck my tail between my legs and run. I am simply tired of arguing with dumbasses like you who have no clue what they're talking about and demonstrate it with every post. Now you're going to try and LIE and claim I have made arguments I never made. That's typical of a libtard with no argument. I've never claimed illegal aliens aren't people.

The OP claimed they have Constitutional rights and I asked why Native Americans didn't have them based on the criteria presented in the OP. That was never sufficiently answered. It was the OP who claimed it was because they weren't considered humans, but they didn't get full Constitutional rights until 1968 and I hardly believe we didn't think they were human until then, so that explanation simply failed. Women and blacks were mentioned but that doesn't help the OP argument either... did we not think women were humans? And the blacks who the 14th freed from slavery?

So while the OP idiotically posits the Constitutional rights for illegal aliens is clear and concise in the 14th and the Bill of Rights... it clearly didn't apply to Native Americans, women, blacks, Japanese-Americans in WWII, Chinese at the turn of the century, Mexican Bandoleros, Irish immigrants, on and on and on. Your little dumb ass hasn't contributed anything and neither has the OP.

My work here is done.

YOU DID make that argument... you said that until the courts rule they are people they are no different than Native Americans back before they were considered people. YOU made that argument... and now faced with it and the fact that you are a Black man making that kind of ridiculous argument you should be absolutely ASHAMED of yourself. I've not said one wrong thing this entire time about how the system works. You say that the President's power to make that Executive order on the travel ban is given to him by an enumerated power of congress to make the statutory law that they did... Now simple fucking question, does the Judicial Branch of the government have the power to rule on its constitutionality or not as part of the checks and balances system? You realize this is the VERY REASON for this system... so a Congress and President of the same political party can not bully their way into making unConstitutional laws that fit their own agenda. Jesus Christ man... and you want to call me a fucking idiot and a liberal. First I'm not a liberal, but I believe in the Constitution, and if you call yourself a Constitutionalist, you're a fraud of one.

 

[Lewdog]

If you are on American soil you do have Constitutional rights whether you are a citizen or not. There are some limits however.

*SIGH*

You have limited Constitutional rights to due process because we grant them to you as a matter of public policy and statutory law. It's not because the Constitution guarantees them.

IT SAYS IT IN THE CONSTITUTION.... Can you fucking read!?!?!?

 

[there4eyeM]

"We" grant rights? Is it, then, finally being admitted that rights are a human creation extended by humans to humans by human language? One hopes this reality is, indeed, being accepted so that genuine discussion can progress.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Your opinion says that...

No... US statutory law says that.

Please show the law...

No, you're stupid because you're an idiot....stop deflecting....

Link to people stuck in airports?

People aren't stuck in airports any more because a judge lifted the ban....

Link to people stuck in fucking airports or shut the fuck up.....thanks....

Do you understand how a time line works?

8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
14 (f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
-----------------------------------------

Not one word in there about people stuck in airports being excluded.
Not one word in there about rogue judges overruling or invoking stays.
Not one word about judicial review or making a case.

But you don't get it... his reason is based on their religion. He can't do that... He can't prove they will be detrimental based on their religion. People are innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

It's never been based on religion numbnuts,it's based on location.

 

[there4eyeM]

Sorry, despite utter lack of respect for Trump, I fail to understand how this is not within the proper powers of a President. The religious question does not seem clear to me. I mean no attack on anyone in saying this.

 

[Lewdog]

Your opinion says that...

No... US statutory law says that.

Please show the law...

People aren't stuck in airports any more because a judge lifted the ban....

Link to people stuck in fucking airports or shut the fuck up.....thanks....

Do you understand how a time line works?

8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
14 (f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
-----------------------------------------

Not one word in there about people stuck in airports being excluded.
Not one word in there about rogue judges overruling or invoking stays.
Not one word about judicial review or making a case.

But you don't get it... his reason is based on their religion. He can't do that... He can't prove they will be detrimental based on their religion. People are innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

It's never been based on religion numbnuts,it's based on location.

Bullshit... he's campaigned on a Muslim ban and a Muslim registry.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No... US statutory law says that.

Please show the law...

Link to people stuck in fucking airports or shut the fuck up.....thanks....

Do you understand how a time line works?

8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
14 (f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
-----------------------------------------

Not one word in there about people stuck in airports being excluded.
Not one word in there about rogue judges overruling or invoking stays.
Not one word about judicial review or making a case.

But you don't get it... his reason is based on their religion. He can't do that... He can't prove they will be detrimental based on their religion. People are innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

It's never been based on religion numbnuts,it's based on location.

Bullshit... he's campaigned on a Muslim ban and a Muslim registry.

Than why didnt he ban all muslim countries?

 

[Marion Morrison]

These words, from Section One of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution rank along with the Constitution's Bill of Rights as — in these precincts — the most important in world and American history:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

The critics all claim that undocumented workers or immigrants or migrants — whichever label is the flavor of the day — don't have legal rights because they are lawbreakers by entering the country illegally and owe no loyalty to the United States. They claim that only U.S. citizens (natural born or naturalized) are protected by the Constitution. The critics are not only wrong — they are really, truly and sincerely wrong.

The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage."

More recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Zadvydas v. Davis (2001) that "due process" of the 14th Amendment applies to all aliens in the United States whose presence maybe or is "unlawful, involuntary or transitory."

In summary, the entire case of illegal aliens being covered by and protected by the Constitution has been settled law for 129 years and rests on one word: "person." It is the word "person" that connects the dots of "due process" and "equal protection" in the 14th Amendment to the U.S Constitution and it is those five words that make the Constitution of the United States and its 14th amendment the most important political document since the Magna Carta in all world history.

"Aliens," legal and illegal, have the full panoply of constitutional protections American citizens have with three exceptions: voting, some government jobs and gun ownership (and that is now in doubt) — Glenn Beck and others notwithstanding.

More w/Supporting Cases: Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights

That should be clear enough for everyone to understand.

Illegal aliens do not have citizen's rights. They can't get a Social Security number so they steal them, they can't vote (most states), and are criminals by the very definition of being an illegal alien.

Due process may be afforded to them by law enforcement but that doesn't mean they have citizens rights. They have the right to be deported.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Bullshit... he's campaigned on a Muslim ban and a Muslim registry.[/QUOTE]

Than why didnt he ban all muslim countries?[/QUOTE]


Because the countries were picked during Obama's term.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Lakhota wants America to be like Europe...

Like Sweden...which now ranks the highest # of rape cases in the world..

Or like France, where whole neighborhoods are taken over by roving muslim gangs...

Perhaps you would like to drive thru the beautiful countryside of Calais, where roving gangs try to rob you as you take in the scenic view..

This is what the Democrats are fighting hard to bring to America.

 

[OKTexas]

Are illegal aliens people?

They are but they do not have full Constitutional rights. They are not assured Constitutional rights. We benevolently grant them some limited rights to due process because we're decent people.

They either are or they are not. The Constitution specifically states that a person gets rights.

It's sad that we should be embracing how far our country has come in understanding that people of all colors, races, genders, religions, and sexual orientations are people, but here in this thread people instead want to use the fact that we used to not feel that way as an excuse to act that way again with people just because they are Muslim or from countries they fear.

And again, I have demonstrated, in spite of what you claim it clearly says, many persons did not get their constitutional rights until many years later after further legislation was passed and in some cases, actual constitutional amendments. So what's clear is, it doesn't clearly mean what you claim.

In NO case have you made ANY argument that these rights apply to persons who aren't here, who are on foreign soil in foreign nations. You want to declare Akmehd in Syria has a constitutional right to travel freely to America.... yet Akmehd's wife doesn't have the constitutional right to vote, go to school, or not have her clit removed so she doesn't experience sexual gratification. As you said, they either have rights or they don't. Since we cannot enforce our Constitution in Syria, they don't have Constitutional rights.

No one here has said any damn thing about kicking out Muslims who are US citizens. No one has said that Muslims can't come to the US. Trump applied a temporary ban on travel from countries we have a problem with vetting individuals. It is so that we can get some kind of system in place which we can rely on. It's not a permanent ban, it's not against Muslims. 85% of the Muslims abroad are unaffected.

As for illegal aliens, they also don't have Constitutional rights because they are not citizens or legal foreign nationals with valid visas. They are criminals who have broken the law. Because we are civilized people who believe in basic human rights, we ensure these people are afforded due process rights. This isn't mandated by our Constitution, it's simply a matter of public policy. In fact, it is a statutory law passed by Congress, the same as the statutory law Trump followed for his EO.

Why are you trying to turn back the clock to when people were not seen as people? WTF is your problem? Do you have a problem with people being seen as people? I'm seriously asking why the fuck you would make an argument about people not being recognized as people in 2017.

It's called original intent, a concept regressives can't seem to grasp. Laws meanings don't change simply because you want them to, they have to be changed.

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

I repeat from the OP:

These words, from Section One of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution rank along with the Constitution's Bill of Rights as — in these precincts — the most important in world and American history:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

Illegal aliens aren't citizens. Period.

Fail.

 

[OKTexas]

But you don't get it... his reason is based on their religion. He can't do that... He can't prove they will be detrimental based on their religion. People are innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

First of all, no it's not... that is nowhere in the EO.

Second of all... it doesn't matter, he has authority under the statute to make whatever determination on whatever basis he deems appropriate.

And again... you are trying to apply Constitutional rights to people we can't enforce our Constitution on. I'm sorry the US doesn't control the rest of the world. Maybe it wouldn't be such a violent shithole over there if we could apply the US Constitution across the Arab world... but we can't and we don't.

The president does not have to prove any damn thing. When you start making this insane demand regarding our national security, you're putting our nation at risk. We can't expect our intelligence agencies to just fork over all their information for everyone to see, so that YOU can be okay with it! Things HAVE to remain classified and we HAVE to maintain secrecy because we have agents in the field who's lives are at risk if they are compromised.

My god... I am grateful as hell you idiots didn't win this election! How the hell did we make it through the last 8 years?

It's funny you fucks complained for 8 years that Obama over reached his authority with Executive Orders and now you are saying that the President can do whatever the fuck he wants with them. Am I in some episode of the Twilight Zone? Now you are bringing up shot about secret agents in the field that have NOTHING to do with this order... You think that the travel ban has to do with Secret agents in the field? Are you trying to connect the dots going from A to K to F to Z to Y to B?

Feel free to show where the statute defers to the judgment of anyone other than the president.

 

[TNHarley]

yet, somehow, it didn't apply to Indians and blacks? I guess it just meant white, asian and latino people?
Idiot.

 

[bendog]

yet, somehow, it didn't apply to Indians and blacks? I guess it just meant white, asian and latino people?
Idiot.

It DID apply to blacks. The entire purpose of the 14th was to prevent southern states from denying equal protection to former slaves who while free had never been citizens. It did not apply to native americans because Indian Territory were soverign nations with their own laws. The 14 STILL doesn't apply there. Of course it applies to Native American living in the states.

 

[OKTexas]

Now that you finally admitted it is a statutory law... but hey you think you got all this figured out and you want to now tuck your tail between your legs and run.

Besides I really have no use arguing with some stupid simpleton fuck that argued for multiple pages that illegal aliens aren't people until the courts say they are. If you are a Black man you should be ashamed of yourself for even having the audacity to make an argument like that.

Nope, I don't EVER tuck my tail between my legs and run. I am simply tired of arguing with dumbasses like you who have no clue what they're talking about and demonstrate it with every post. Now you're going to try and LIE and claim I have made arguments I never made. That's typical of a libtard with no argument. I've never claimed illegal aliens aren't people.

The OP claimed they have Constitutional rights and I asked why Native Americans didn't have them based on the criteria presented in the OP. That was never sufficiently answered. It was the OP who claimed it was because they weren't considered humans, but they didn't get full Constitutional rights until 1968 and I hardly believe we didn't think they were human until then, so that explanation simply failed. Women and blacks were mentioned but that doesn't help the OP argument either... did we not think women were humans? And the blacks who the 14th freed from slavery?

So while the OP idiotically posits the Constitutional rights for illegal aliens is clear and concise in the 14th and the Bill of Rights... it clearly didn't apply to Native Americans, women, blacks, Japanese-Americans in WWII, Chinese at the turn of the century, Mexican Bandoleros, Irish immigrants, on and on and on. Your little dumb ass hasn't contributed anything and neither has the OP.

My work here is done.

YOU DID make that argument... you said that until the courts rule they are people they are no different than Native Americans back before they were considered people. YOU made that argument... and now faced with it and the fact that you are a Black man making that kind of ridiculous argument you should be absolutely ASHAMED of yourself. I've not said one wrong thing this entire time about how the system works. You say that the President's power to make that Executive order on the travel ban is given to him by an enumerated power of congress to make the statutory law that they did... Now simple fucking question, does the Judicial Branch of the government have the power to rule on its constitutionality or not as part of the checks and balances system? You realize this is the VERY REASON for this system... so a Congress and President of the same political party can not bully their way into making unConstitutional laws that fit their own agenda. Jesus Christ man... and you want to call me a fucking idiot and a liberal. First I'm not a liberal, but I believe in the Constitution, and if you call yourself a Constitutionalist, you're a fraud of one.

You regressives keep yelling about the Constitution but you have yet to point to anything written in the EO that violates the Constitution. Don't give me your opinion, show me in the text of the order.

 

[bendog]

I repeat from the OP:

These words, from Section One of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution rank along with the Constitution's Bill of Rights as — in these precincts — the most important in world and American history:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

Illegal aliens aren't citizens. Period.

Fail.

But if they are subject to the laws of the US by being on our territory, the 14th applies to them. reading laws literally is a bitch. LOL

 

[bendog]

But you don't get it... his reason is based on their religion. He can't do that... He can't prove they will be detrimental based on their religion. People are innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

First of all, no it's not... that is nowhere in the EO.

Second of all... it doesn't matter, he has authority under the statute to make whatever determination on whatever basis he deems appropriate.

And again... you are trying to apply Constitutional rights to people we can't enforce our Constitution on. I'm sorry the US doesn't control the rest of the world. Maybe it wouldn't be such a violent shithole over there if we could apply the US Constitution across the Arab world... but we can't and we don't.

The president does not have to prove any damn thing. When you start making this insane demand regarding our national security, you're putting our nation at risk. We can't expect our intelligence agencies to just fork over all their information for everyone to see, so that YOU can be okay with it! Things HAVE to remain classified and we HAVE to maintain secrecy because we have agents in the field who's lives are at risk if they are compromised.

My god... I am grateful as hell you idiots didn't win this election! How the hell did we make it through the last 8 years?

It's funny you fucks complained for 8 years that Obama over reached his authority with Executive Orders and now you are saying that the President can do whatever the fuck he wants with them. Am I in some episode of the Twilight Zone? Now you are bringing up shot about secret agents in the field that have NOTHING to do with this order... You think that the travel ban has to do with Secret agents in the field? Are you trying to connect the dots going from A to K to F to Z to Y to B?

Feel free to show where the statute defers to the judgment of anyone other than the president.

Lahota already did that in the OP

 

[Tom Horn]

And these people are not in our country yet.

Or are you saying the Constitution covers the entire world ?

Of course he is.....these mutts have no idea what they're talking about...never have, never will. One of them said the other day that the Constitution is "our TREATY with the world"...I about died laughing.