Yes..universal background checks for guns do not work...even left wing Joyce Foundation shows this

[JoeB131]

So then you need a warrant to investigate a gun owners associates as well.

And the problem here is idiots like you who hold law abiding people responsible for the acts of others.

Again- 33,000 gun deaths and 79,000 gun injuries. Every year.

That's what I'm holding you fetishists accountable for.

 

[JoeB131]

Did you read the link.....go and read the part of the research that is available....they have people attached to the gangs who have valid FOID cards..

Then it's too easy to get a FOID card.

 

[2aguy]

So then you need a warrant to investigate a gun owners associates as well.

And the problem here is idiots like you who hold law abiding people responsible for the acts of others.

Again- 33,000 gun deaths and 79,000 gun injuries. Every year.

That's what I'm holding you fetishists accountable for.

Here you go.....the actual breakdown and why you have to leave out the actual truth...because the truth doesn't support what you say.....

Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2015

489

==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2015--

9,616

=======================

Suicide
So you lie....you hide what the numbers actually are...and you lie about suicide as the highest number of gun deaths...even though Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 489 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 9,616 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

Non-fatal gun accidents....
WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

2015... 17,311

 

[2aguy]

Did you read the link.....go and read the part of the research that is available....they have people attached to the gangs who have valid FOID cards..

Then it's too easy to get a FOID card.

Yeah...that whole not having a criminal record so you get a FOID card.......

Considering the Orlando shooter had 3 separate interviews with trained FBI agents, a deep, 10 month background investigation, an actual undercover approach by FBI agents, and that he passed a background check to get his security job, and background checks to get the guns he had....

yeah...nothing you do is going to stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns when they want them.....

 

[JoeB131]

Here you go.....the actual breakdown and why you have to leave out the actual truth...because the truth doesn't support what you say.....

33,000 gun deaths.
79,000 gun injuries.

Every year.

Your fetish has too high a cost.

Yeah...that whole not having a criminal record so you get a FOID card.......

Considering the Orlando shooter had 3 separate interviews with trained FBI agents, a deep, 10 month background investigation, an actual undercover approach by FBI agents, and that he passed a background check to get his security job, and background checks to get the guns he had....

Here's the thing, within 24 hours of the shooting, the media was able to find out he beat his first wife, and was hanging around ISIS inspired social media.

Oh, yeah, and all his coworkers said he was nuts.

Sounds to me like the FBI didn't go a very good job.

Or that FOID Cards are too easy to get.

The thing is, every fucking time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things

1) The person involved was crazy and everyone in his life knew it.
2) It was still way too easy for this person to get a lot of firepower.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So then you need a warrant to investigate a gun owners associates as well.

And the problem here is idiots like you who hold law abiding people responsible for the acts of others.

Again- 33,000 gun deaths and 79,000 gun injuries. Every year.

That's what I'm holding you fetishists accountable for.

Again so the fuck what?

I am not responsible for any of those

 

[RealDave]

It it did nothing, why did you care?

you just can't understand that it makes no sense whatsoever to ban an AR 15 over some cosmetic doodads while every other type of semiauto is OK?

Those of us with a brain realize it is the first foray into banning all semiautomatic rifles and that is UNACCEPTABLE

There were more banned than the AR-15.

Again, if the ban would just end the cosmetics, why would you care?

and they were banned because of cosmetic features

why do you care if a rifle has a few doodads on it if it's not "more deadly" than a rifle without the doodads?

Why do you want them?

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

 

[2aguy]

Here you go.....the actual breakdown and why you have to leave out the actual truth...because the truth doesn't support what you say.....

33,000 gun deaths.
79,000 gun injuries.

Every year.

Your fetish has too high a cost.

Yeah...that whole not having a criminal record so you get a FOID card.......

Considering the Orlando shooter had 3 separate interviews with trained FBI agents, a deep, 10 month background investigation, an actual undercover approach by FBI agents, and that he passed a background check to get his security job, and background checks to get the guns he had....

Here's the thing, within 24 hours of the shooting, the media was able to find out he beat his first wife, and was hanging around ISIS inspired social media.

Oh, yeah, and all his coworkers said he was nuts.

Sounds to me like the FBI didn't go a very good job.

Or that FOID Cards are too easy to get.

The thing is, every fucking time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things

1) The person involved was crazy and everyone in his life knew it.
2) It was still way too easy for this person to get a lot of firepower.

No...the benefit of guns is too high to allow irrational people like you make policy on a Constitutional Right...

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives....those are rapes stopped, beatings stopped, murders stopped, maimings stopped, the money saved, since you are obsessed with money, is far more than we lose when Americans can stop crime with guns.....

You keep repeating the 33,000 number....hiding the fact that the majority are suicides...which won't be stopped if you ban guns....and then you have criminals...violent criminals people like you keep putting back on the street.....you are the problem.....not the law abiding gun owner.

Here ...the truth...again...

Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2015

489

==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2015--

9,616

=======================

Suicide
So you lie....you hide what the numbers actually are...and you lie about suicide as the highest number of gun deaths...even though Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 489 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 9,616 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

Non-fatal gun accidents....
WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports

CDC non fatal gun accident.....

2001.... 17,696

2002... 17,579

2003... 18,941

2004... 16,555

2005... 15,388

2006... 14,678

2007... 15,698

2008... 17,215

2009... 18,610

2010... 14,161

2011... 14,675

2012... 17,362

2013... 16,864

2014..... 15,928

2015... 17,311

 

[KGB]

What associates? I have no associates that would not pass a background check and what right do you have to do a background check on anyone who is NOT buying a gun? How about we change the 4th amendment to allow the police to search the homes of the associates of all criminals?

Um, we already do that. Judges will issue warrents if they think a bad guy is hiding at a friends house.

Yes, judges will issue warrants after going through due process & reasonable suspicion. Someone exercising a right is not suspicious behavior, so nice try....

 

[2aguy]

What associates? I have no associates that would not pass a background check and what right do you have to do a background check on anyone who is NOT buying a gun? How about we change the 4th amendment to allow the police to search the homes of the associates of all criminals?

Um, we already do that. Judges will issue warrents if they think a bad guy is hiding at a friends house.

Yes, judges will issue warrants after going through due process & reasonable suspicion. Someone exercising a right is not suspicious behavior, so nice try....

No...you don't get it......the anti gunners want to use the gun storage laws to allow warrantless searches of your homes to inspect your gun safe......how do you expect them to take gun rights away from law abiding gun owners who don't actually use their guns for crime.....?

 

[KGB]

What associates? I have no associates that would not pass a background check and what right do you have to do a background check on anyone who is NOT buying a gun? How about we change the 4th amendment to allow the police to search the homes of the associates of all criminals?

Um, we already do that. Judges will issue warrents if they think a bad guy is hiding at a friends house.

Yes, judges will issue warrants after going through due process & reasonable suspicion. Someone exercising a right is not suspicious behavior, so nice try....

No...you don't get it......the anti gunners want to use the gun storage laws to allow warrantless searches of your homes to inspect your gun safe......how do you expect them to take gun rights away from law abiding gun owners who don't actually use their guns for crime.....?

agreed that is all this is. I was just responding to Joe's assertion that people who are just exercising their rights need to be under suspicion for doing so...

 

[Skull Pilot]

you just can't understand that it makes no sense whatsoever to ban an AR 15 over some cosmetic doodads while every other type of semiauto is OK?

Those of us with a brain realize it is the first foray into banning all semiautomatic rifles and that is UNACCEPTABLE

There were more banned than the AR-15.

Again, if the ban would just end the cosmetics, why would you care?

and they were banned because of cosmetic features

why do you care if a rifle has a few doodads on it if it's not "more deadly" than a rifle without the doodads?

Why do you want them?

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

They don't make a rifle "more deadly" so why are you afraid of them?

 

[RealDave]

There were more banned than the AR-15.

Again, if the ban would just end the cosmetics, why would you care?

and they were banned because of cosmetic features

why do you care if a rifle has a few doodads on it if it's not "more deadly" than a rifle without the doodads?

Why do you want them?

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

They don't make a rifle "more deadly" so why are you afraid of them?

OK, I'll give you a muzzle loader & I'll take a sniper rifle & we'll trade shots from 1000 yards.

 

[Skull Pilot]

and they were banned because of cosmetic features

why do you care if a rifle has a few doodads on it if it's not "more deadly" than a rifle without the doodads?

Why do you want them?

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

They don't make a rifle "more deadly" so why are you afraid of them?

OK, I'll give you a muzzle loader & I'll take a sniper rifle & we'll trade shots from 1000 yards.

That's an apples to orangutans analogy

Take my .223 semiautomatic ranch rifle and a .223 caliber AR 15 in a side by comparison and you will find without a doubt that the AR 15 is NOT more deadly than my rifle

But then again you don't know shit about firearms so you probably wouldn't understand the comparison

 

[RealDave]

Why do you want them?

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

They don't make a rifle "more deadly" so why are you afraid of them?

OK, I'll give you a muzzle loader & I'll take a sniper rifle & we'll trade shots from 1000 yards.

That's an apples to orangutans analogy

Take my .223 semiautomatic ranch rifle and a .223 caliber AR 15 in a side by comparison and you will find without a doubt that the AR 15 is NOT more deadly than my rifle

But then again you don't know shit about firearms so you probably wouldn't understand the comparison

Nice try. You asshole "gun experts" can't even admit an assault type rifle is more deadly than some other guns & weapons. I don't think you know very much at all.

 

[2aguy]

Me? Self defense...and personal liberty.

So, they have an advantage?

They don't make a rifle "more deadly" so why are you afraid of them?

OK, I'll give you a muzzle loader & I'll take a sniper rifle & we'll trade shots from 1000 yards.

That's an apples to orangutans analogy

Take my .223 semiautomatic ranch rifle and a .223 caliber AR 15 in a side by comparison and you will find without a doubt that the AR 15 is NOT more deadly than my rifle

But then again you don't know shit about firearms so you probably wouldn't understand the comparison

Nice try. You asshole "gun experts" can't even admit an assault type rifle is more deadly than some other guns & weapons. I don't think you know very much at all.

It isn't more deadly than any other rifle dipshit........you had two public shootings with rifles with magazines.......one in a hospital, one at a baseball field...one person was killed.

Virginia Tech......32 people killed with pistols......

Nice, France, 89 people killed, over 400 injured with a rental truck.

Your argument is stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

No...the benefit of guns is too high to allow irrational people like you make policy on a Constitutional Right...

Americans use guns 1,500,000

Not that tired lie again. Look, just because you waved your gun at a darkie at the bus stop that's not a "DGU", bud.

 

[2aguy]

No...the benefit of guns is too high to allow irrational people like you make policy on a Constitutional Right...

Americans use guns 1,500,000

Not that tired lie again. Look, just because you waved your gun at a darkie at the bus stop that's not a "DGU", bud.

Here you go joe...the actual research

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[JoeB131]

Here you go joe...the actual research

I've done the research.

I know NOBODY who has ever legitimately used a gun in a DGU.

I know three people who've died by gun violence.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go joe...the actual research

I've done the research.

I know NOBODY who has ever legitimately used a gun in a DGU.

I know three people who've died by gun violence.

Yes...funny that all 3 knew you.......I wonder what that means....?