You cannot help the poor by giving more tax cuts to the rich

[Steelplate]

Well who cares how it seems to you?

I don't think you sound very mature. My guess is, you are in high school (I would be sad for our education system if you were actually in college), have never worked in the real world and have no damn clue how it really works.

Your head is full of BS from marxist teachers(profs?) and you think you sound smart, when the real adults in the room think you sound like the clueless child you are.

But there is no such thing as fair, kid. And any attempt by government to make it "fair" always ends in disaster.

No matter how many times it has been tried from the French Revolution to utopian experiments to communism, it has never succeded. It ends in disaster.

No matter how you rail, it still boils down to you whining that you think it's "unfair" that there are people out there with more money than you.

Well boo freaking hoo, kid. Welcome to reality.

All the "social justice" in the world isn't going to change that, and the real clue to how phony the attempts to make it "fair" truly are is you look how rich those pandering in "social justice" become.

They profit off the whole system, while they fill the ignorant with dreams that one day it will all be fair. It never happens.

You're getting scammed with that crap. Trust me.

You are a complete moron. I am 46 years old and have been working with the developmentally disabled for 23 years... between my wife and I, we make about $100k(give or take a few thousand, depending on Overtime). I never went to College, But have put one through and our daughter is starting in the fall. So fuck you and your "you're jealous of the rich" bullshit.

What do you do? I have a feeling you are a 20-something, who upon starting life in the real world.. looked at his paycheck and doesn't like paying taxes... even that pesky medicare and Social Security tax that will benefit you when you get old... IF YOU DEMAND THAT IT GETS DONE... but no... you're willing to throw your grandparents and parents under the bus because you don't want to pay for them like they did for theirs... You, and your brethren sound like spoiled brats who only care about themselves.

Don't like taxes? Welcome to REALITY.

If you are telling the truth, I think it's really sad that you could be that old, and be so woefully ignorant of how our economy works.

It sounds to me like you work for the government, and thus do NOT work in the private sector, so you have no understanding of it.

Like college profs who constantly preach about the private sector, yet they have never worked in it themselves.

BTW, ignoramous. Don't like taxes? THAT'S HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS BORN, MORON!

YOU HAVE to work for government. You can't get that ignorant in the real world.

How ignorant are you... it wasn't taxes... it was taxes without representation. Everyone here in this country, if fallen on hard times can take advantage of our system to help them get on their feet and keep their families safe and healthy. Comparing now to back then is utterly ridiculous... and goes to show what fucked up people you are.

 

[ShackledNation]

Who in the HELL said that we are whining because a ditch digger isn't getting paid like a CEO? no one other than you guys going overboard with your usual Rhetoric. That's bullshit. No one on the Progressive side has ever said, implied, or even THINKS that.

However, Ditch Diggers have families to raise, bills to pay and all the NEEDS that a CEO has. Why shouldn't they make enough to be able to so? THAT'S what we are saying.

Because digging ditches is not very valuable to the economy.

So fuck them right?

No. Not right. If that is the conclusion you draw you are not keeping your mind open enough.

In fact, fuck anyone who works with the strengths of their back and the sweat of their brow... if they are too fucking stupid to go to college and be a businessman... they don't deserve a decent wage and have a decent life....

Not true at all. You are also assuming people must go to college to have a decent life. You also may not realize that there is social mobility in society.

Do you realize that not everyone CAN be what you think are "worthy" occupations?

Value is subjective. What I think or what you think to be worthy occupations means nothing. If somebody is willing to buy holes in the ground, then someone will be employed to make them. The problem is that government makes many more errors because profit and loss do not apply to it.

Do you realize how many people out there fall into the category of "blue Collar" workers? Do you realize how much you marginalize a huge majority of our citizens? And you have the nerve to call it class warfare when we point these things out? Yeah... there is class warfare... but it's coming from the "haves" not the have nots.

Nice strawman, because I am not marginalizing them and I never once mentioned class warfare. Your post is pure sensationalist propaganda. You operate on the misconception that if government does not give the poor jobs and help them they will all die and fail to live good lives and never have good families etc. etc. etc. and that is all complete BULLSHIT. The history of American civil society runs in complete opposition to such a belief.

I think it's bullshit that you guys want most of our country to go into virtual slavery because you don't think they deserve anything better...

That is bullshit and nobody believes it. You are just to thick-skulled to see beyond the reality you have misconceived in your head about how society functions. I am not against government programs because they help the poor and I am evil. I am against them because in reality they hurt everyone, including the poor.

and then complain that the economy is going to shit. Hint: People who have money... spend money... people who spend money, stimulate the economy. There's no way to have a strong economy when you insist on a downward spiral of our working and middle class... they ARE the economy.

Strawman, strawman, strawman! You are largely arguing against your own fabricated stereotype. First of all, spending does not grow the economy, saving does. Second, even if spending was the key to economic growth, how is reducing the spending of the rich and transferring it to the poor going to increase economic activity at all? Transferring who spends money will not change how much money is spent. What does destroy the middle class is taxation to subsidize both the poor and big business failure.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Teapartyninja, you disgust me. I think that people are owed a decent living wage and a safty net in case of problems out of your control. I'm sorry that you had such terrible experiences at the hands of the free market, but that's all the more reason you should reject it instead of becoming bitter.

Wishing pain upon others because you've suffered is something I'll never get.

I'm not the one that's bitter! You guys are the ones ranting about how "unfair" things are, boo freaking hoo!

What the hell is a "decent living wage" and who gets to decide that?

It's all about power. Notice what you libs have a problem with. A FREE market.

Can't have that. Can't be free from liberal control. No no no. We need all kinds of nannies to make sure it's fair, and nice, and no one ever has a bad experience.

It's all about the government taking control and treating us all like little children who can't decide for ourselves what we want to do with our lives.

I'm not bitter about our experiences, when we first married. It's happens. That's why they call it taking RESPONSIBILITY.

But liberals don't like that word. They don't like responsibility. They want government to come in take control, take over the responsibility, and reduce us all to children who can't care for ourselves.

That's not the American way. That's not how this became a great country. That's how Greece, and Soviet Union, sank into economic oblivion!

I don't want that for myself or my kids, or anyone else. I want them to be able to work as hard as they chose to make their futures.

Take my oldest. We couldn't afford to put her through college. She didn't let that stop her. She's going to college, working (almost) full time, and busting her ass to make herself a future.

She's not whining that where she works, doesn't give her a "living wage" so she has to still live at home (so she can pay for college). No! She's working for her future and she not asking for a hand out (well except from her Father )

That is how things should be. If the government just gave her a living wage, then why try? Why succeed? Why not just sit on butt, put in your 40 and go home to your dangerous public housing, where ambulences are afraid to even go in a rescue asthmatic children, and your kids aren't safe to step outside.

THAT'S what liberals call "compassion." I call it politicians profiting off the poor for votes.

No thanks. I don't want the government giving me a living wage. I'd rather make it myself.

 

[teapartysamurai]

You are a complete moron. I am 46 years old and have been working with the developmentally disabled for 23 years... between my wife and I, we make about $100k(give or take a few thousand, depending on Overtime). I never went to College, But have put one through and our daughter is starting in the fall. So fuck you and your "you're jealous of the rich" bullshit.

What do you do? I have a feeling you are a 20-something, who upon starting life in the real world.. looked at his paycheck and doesn't like paying taxes... even that pesky medicare and Social Security tax that will benefit you when you get old... IF YOU DEMAND THAT IT GETS DONE... but no... you're willing to throw your grandparents and parents under the bus because you don't want to pay for them like they did for theirs... You, and your brethren sound like spoiled brats who only care about themselves.

Don't like taxes? Welcome to REALITY.

If you are telling the truth, I think it's really sad that you could be that old, and be so woefully ignorant of how our economy works.

It sounds to me like you work for the government, and thus do NOT work in the private sector, so you have no understanding of it.

Like college profs who constantly preach about the private sector, yet they have never worked in it themselves.

BTW, ignoramous. Don't like taxes? THAT'S HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS BORN, MORON!

YOU HAVE to work for government. You can't get that ignorant in the real world.

How ignorant are you... it wasn't taxes... it was taxes without representation. Everyone here in this country, if fallen on hard times can take advantage of our system to help them get on their feet and keep their families safe and healthy. Comparing now to back then is utterly ridiculous... and goes to show what fucked up people you are.

And you think that when 49% of the country pays 3% of the federal taxes, while 1% of the country pays over 50% of the federal taxes, that it isn't taxation without representation for those 49% to vote themselves more government goodies at everyone else's expense?

I got news for you, that's what the Tea Party and the November 2010 election was about.

There are people saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! We are NOT going to just shut up and keep paying for a bloated entitlement system.

You are totally out of touch. You think it's the 1960s and Johnson's "Great Society" is still a great idea.

Welcome to 2011, dude. The welfare state cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are now borrowing and printing worthless money just to try and hold off that day when it collapses.

Your living wage is not something that can be sustained forever.

 

[Chris]

Teapartyninja, you disgust me. I think that people are owed a decent living wage and a safty net in case of problems out of your control. I'm sorry that you had such terrible experiences at the hands of the free market, but that's all the more reason you should reject it instead of becoming bitter.

Wishing pain upon others because you've suffered is something I'll never get.

I'm not the one that's bitter! You guys are the ones ranting about how "unfair" things are, boo freaking hoo!

What the hell is a "decent living wage" and who gets to decide that?

It's all about power. Notice what you libs have a problem with. A FREE market.

Can't have that. Can't be free from liberal control. No no no. We need all kinds of nannies to make sure it's fair, and nice, and no one ever has a bad experience.

It's all about the government taking control and treating us all like little children who can't decide for ourselves what we want to do with our lives.

I'm not bitter about our experiences, when we first married. It's happens. That's why they call it taking RESPONSIBILITY.

But liberals don't like that word. They don't like responsibility. They want government to come in take control, take over the responsibility, and reduce us all to children who can't care for ourselves.

That's not the American way. That's not how this became a great country. That's how Greece, and Soviet Union, sank into economic oblivion!

I don't want that for myself or my kids, or anyone else. I want them to be able to work as hard as they chose to make their futures.

Take my oldest. We couldn't afford to put her through college. She didn't let that stop her. She's going to college, working (almost) full time, and busting her ass to make herself a future.

She's not whining that where she works, doesn't give her a "living wage" so she has to still live at home (so she can pay for college). No! She's working for her future and she not asking for a hand out (well except from her Father )

That is how things should be. If the government just gave her a living wage, then why try? Why succeed? Why not just sit on butt, put in your 40 and go home to your dangerous public housing, where ambulences are afraid to even go in a rescue asthmatic children, and your kids aren't safe to step outside.

THAT'S what liberals call "compassion." I call it politicians profiting off the poor for votes.

No thanks. I don't want the government giving me a living wage. I'd rather make it myself.

Business without government regulation is the Mafia.

 

[Chris]

If you are telling the truth, I think it's really sad that you could be that old, and be so woefully ignorant of how our economy works.

It sounds to me like you work for the government, and thus do NOT work in the private sector, so you have no understanding of it.

Like college profs who constantly preach about the private sector, yet they have never worked in it themselves.

BTW, ignoramous. Don't like taxes? THAT'S HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS BORN, MORON!

YOU HAVE to work for government. You can't get that ignorant in the real world.

How ignorant are you... it wasn't taxes... it was taxes without representation. Everyone here in this country, if fallen on hard times can take advantage of our system to help them get on their feet and keep their families safe and healthy. Comparing now to back then is utterly ridiculous... and goes to show what fucked up people you are.

And you think that when 49% of the country pays 3% of the federal taxes, while 1% of the country pays over 50% of the federal taxes, that it isn't taxation without representation for those 49% to vote themselves more government goodies at everyone else's expense?

I got news for you, that's what the Tea Party and the November 2010 election was about.

There are people saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! We are NOT going to just shut up and keep paying for a bloated entitlement system.

You are totally out of touch. You think it's the 1960s and Johnson's "Great Society" is still a great idea.

Welcome to 2011, dude. The welfare state cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are now borrowing and printing worthless money just to try and hold off that day when it collapses.

Your living wage is not something that can be sustained forever.

There is no welfare state.

Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures.

It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters.

And you fell for it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Teapartyninja, you disgust me. I think that people are owed a decent living wage and a safty net in case of problems out of your control. I'm sorry that you had such terrible experiences at the hands of the free market, but that's all the more reason you should reject it instead of becoming bitter.

Wishing pain upon others because you've suffered is something I'll never get.

I'm not the one that's bitter! You guys are the ones ranting about how "unfair" things are, boo freaking hoo!

What the hell is a "decent living wage" and who gets to decide that?

It's all about power. Notice what you libs have a problem with. A FREE market.

Can't have that. Can't be free from liberal control. No no no. We need all kinds of nannies to make sure it's fair, and nice, and no one ever has a bad experience.

It's all about the government taking control and treating us all like little children who can't decide for ourselves what we want to do with our lives.

I'm not bitter about our experiences, when we first married. It's happens. That's why they call it taking RESPONSIBILITY.

But liberals don't like that word. They don't like responsibility. They want government to come in take control, take over the responsibility, and reduce us all to children who can't care for ourselves.

That's not the American way. That's not how this became a great country. That's how Greece, and Soviet Union, sank into economic oblivion!

I don't want that for myself or my kids, or anyone else. I want them to be able to work as hard as they chose to make their futures.

Take my oldest. We couldn't afford to put her through college. She didn't let that stop her. She's going to college, working (almost) full time, and busting her ass to make herself a future.

She's not whining that where she works, doesn't give her a "living wage" so she has to still live at home (so she can pay for college). No! She's working for her future and she not asking for a hand out (well except from her Father )

That is how things should be. If the government just gave her a living wage, then why try? Why succeed? Why not just sit on butt, put in your 40 and go home to your dangerous public housing, where ambulences are afraid to even go in a rescue asthmatic children, and your kids aren't safe to step outside.

THAT'S what liberals call "compassion." I call it politicians profiting off the poor for votes.

No thanks. I don't want the government giving me a living wage. I'd rather make it myself.

Business without government regulation is the Mafia.

That must explain why the government in Italy became so corrupted by the Mafia.

Or even the government in Chicago.

Clueless!

 

[Avatar4321]

Business without government regulation is the Mafia.

Government unrestricted is a recipe for destruction.

 

[teapartysamurai]

How ignorant are you... it wasn't taxes... it was taxes without representation. Everyone here in this country, if fallen on hard times can take advantage of our system to help them get on their feet and keep their families safe and healthy. Comparing now to back then is utterly ridiculous... and goes to show what fucked up people you are.

And you think that when 49% of the country pays 3% of the federal taxes, while 1% of the country pays over 50% of the federal taxes, that it isn't taxation without representation for those 49% to vote themselves more government goodies at everyone else's expense?

I got news for you, that's what the Tea Party and the November 2010 election was about.

There are people saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! We are NOT going to just shut up and keep paying for a bloated entitlement system.

You are totally out of touch. You think it's the 1960s and Johnson's "Great Society" is still a great idea.

Welcome to 2011, dude. The welfare state cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are now borrowing and printing worthless money just to try and hold off that day when it collapses.

Your living wage is not something that can be sustained forever.

There is no welfare state.

Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures.

It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters.

And you fell for it.

Yeah, that's a nice try, if it was only about welfare BY NAME, but you know damn well it isn't.

When you look at ENTITLEMENT SPENDING, you get quite another picture:

This is the info for 2010, NOT 2011, BUT 2010:

Since 2000, spending has grown across the board. Entitlement spending has reached a record 14 percent of GDP. Discretionary spending has expanded 79 percent faster than inflation as a result of large defense and domestic spending hikes. Other spending categories that have grown rapidly since 2000 include: anti-poverty programs (89 percent faster than inflation), K–12 education (219 percent), veterans spending (107 percent), and Medicare (81 percent). And despite all the pressing national priorities, lawmakers approved over 9,000 earmarks last year at a cost of $16.5 billion. Simply put, all parts of government are growing.

Federal Spending Trends and Federal Budget Trends | The Heritage Foundation

One percent?

Did you think you could get away with that BS?

Who fell for it?

 

[Chris]

And you think that when 49% of the country pays 3% of the federal taxes, while 1% of the country pays over 50% of the federal taxes, that it isn't taxation without representation for those 49% to vote themselves more government goodies at everyone else's expense?

I got news for you, that's what the Tea Party and the November 2010 election was about.

There are people saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! We are NOT going to just shut up and keep paying for a bloated entitlement system.

You are totally out of touch. You think it's the 1960s and Johnson's "Great Society" is still a great idea.

Welcome to 2011, dude. The welfare state cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are now borrowing and printing worthless money just to try and hold off that day when it collapses.

Your living wage is not something that can be sustained forever.

There is no welfare state.

Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures.

It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters.

And you fell for it.

Yeah, that's a nice try, if it was only about welfare BY NAME, but you know damn well it isn't.

When you look at ENTITLEMENT SPENDING, you get quite another picture:

This is the info for 2010, NOT 2011, BUT 2010:

Since 2000, spending has grown across the board. Entitlement spending has reached a record 14 percent of GDP. Discretionary spending has expanded 79 percent faster than inflation as a result of large defense and domestic spending hikes. Other spending categories that have grown rapidly since 2000 include: anti-poverty programs (89 percent faster than inflation), K–12 education (219 percent), veterans spending (107 percent), and Medicare (81 percent). And despite all the pressing national priorities, lawmakers approved over 9,000 earmarks last year at a cost of $16.5 billion. Simply put, all parts of government are growing.

Federal Spending Trends and Federal Budget Trends | The Heritage Foundation

One percent?

Did you think you could get away with that BS?

Who fell for it?

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare.

But thanks for playing.

 

[Chris]

Business without government regulation is the Mafia.

Government unrestricted is a recipe for destruction.

We live a democracy with an elected government with three branches with checks and balances.

There is no "unrestricted government."

Silly you.

 

[teapartysamurai]

There is no welfare state.

Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures.

It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters.

And you fell for it.

Yeah, that's a nice try, if it was only about welfare BY NAME, but you know damn well it isn't.

When you look at ENTITLEMENT SPENDING, you get quite another picture:

This is the info for 2010, NOT 2011, BUT 2010:

Since 2000, spending has grown across the board. Entitlement spending has reached a record 14 percent of GDP. Discretionary spending has expanded 79 percent faster than inflation as a result of large defense and domestic spending hikes. Other spending categories that have grown rapidly since 2000 include: anti-poverty programs (89 percent faster than inflation), K–12 education (219 percent), veterans spending (107 percent), and Medicare (81 percent). And despite all the pressing national priorities, lawmakers approved over 9,000 earmarks last year at a cost of $16.5 billion. Simply put, all parts of government are growing.

Federal Spending Trends and Federal Budget Trends | The Heritage Foundation

One percent?

Did you think you could get away with that BS?

Who fell for it?

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare.

But thanks for playing.

I'm sure the children and children's children who will be on the hook for a 75% tax rate trying to pay off Social Securuity and Medicaid money being spent NOW will consider that a valid critique.

 

[Dr Grump]

[q
How much value to a company or even a society is the CEO compared to a ditch digger?

Depends on the CEO. Kenny Lay or Lehmann Bros CEO, quite a bit...

 

[Oldstyle]

"There is no welfare state. Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures. It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters."

Actually welfare paid by the Federal Government and the States was at 2.7% of GDP ( a much larger number than federal expenditures) in 2006, Chris...up from .8% in 1962. I'd hate to even know what it is now. I'm guessing close to 4%. The welfare state isn't a myth...it's very much alive and well.

 

[Chris]

"There is no welfare state. Welfare is about 1% of the federal expenditures. It's a myth thought up by Ronald Reagan to scare white suburban voters."

Actually welfare paid by the Federal Government and the States was at 2.7% of GDP ( a much larger number than federal expenditures) in 2006, Chris...up from .8% in 1962. I'd hate to even know what it is now. I'm guessing close to 4%. The welfare state isn't a myth...it's very much alive and well.

Link?

 

[Chris]

About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $496 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

These programs include: the refundable portion of the earned-income and child tax credits, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including food stamps, school meals, low-income housing assistance, child-care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.

Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The vast majority of this 14% is not welfare but aid to the working poor and the disabled and the old.

Very little of it is "welfare."

But that's the Republican MO. The poor are the enemy, the teachers are the enemy, the blacks are the enemy, the Muslims are the enemy, the gay people are the enemy, and the rich and powerful are our friends.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, Tea Party Facists and far lefty Socialists, lissen up. Neither of your groups are good for America.

Read The need for compromise | Deseret News

This from one of the most conservative and responsible readerships in America.

 

[teapartysamurai]

About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $496 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

These programs include: the refundable portion of the earned-income and child tax credits, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including food stamps, school meals, low-income housing assistance, child-care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.

Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The vast majority of this 14% is not welfare but aid to the working poor and the disabled and the old.

Very little of it is "welfare."

But that's the Republican MO. The poor are the enemy, the teachers are the enemy, the blacks are the enemy, the Muslims are the enemy, the gay people are the enemy, and the rich and powerful are our friends.

No, no no. Nice try. Not 14% of the federal budget but 14% OF GDP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Consider how much is GDP

 

[JakeStarkey]

teapartysamuraiFascist does not understand the chart.

This is amazing.

 

[Chris]

teapartysamuraiFascist does not understand the chart.

This is amazing.

Truely.