Your first amendment rights vs someone elses safety is a bogus argument

[sakinago]

as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did

How exactly do you do that? Eliminate all social distancing rules and hope for the best or keep the rules in place while you plan for a phased recovery of the economy?

It’s not an either/or thing. Italy also isn’t comparable to the US, not their healthcare system not culturally. The only comparable healthcare system to ours is Switzerland, they are also a free market system. Both our countries have plenty of ICU beds, and I don’t know about the Swiss but I know we have more ventilators per capita than Pretty much any European country. Truth about socialized healthcare is that it’s built for the majority of patients, who are healthy people with ailments, they aren’t really geared so much for the sick people. Most Americans also don’t have multiple generations living in their houses, we don’t use public transport as much, and families tend to live in houses, not apartment buildings. On the other hand we’re also fatter, which is a big risk factor.

The phase reopenings might be a good idea for American cities perhaps, unless they are already approaching herd immunity. In more rural and suburban areas I would like to see much more lax rules than in the cities. But rule of thumb is the sooner healthier people catch this and get over it, the better. Whenever a city has reached their peaked and their hospitals are able to handle it, restrictions should be basically lifted very soon. Hopefully the herd immunity in the young and healthy coupled with quarantining the at risk for a couple months after will stop or severely reduce re-emergence in those groups. There’s no promise there, but by that time we’ll hopefully have better info and treatments on this, and it won’t overwhelm our healthcare system. Which was at a bit of a risk, but no where near at risk like italy was.

 

[Siete]

the op is a fukn MORON

pay no attention

 

[WEATHER53]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

So your only responsibility is to yourself. Got it. I just hope you don't live in my neighborhood, we try and take care of each other.

And do you do that by attempting to restrict other people’s movements?
I guess I’m just not the caring and sharing person that you are when it comes to legal rights and freedom.
You are a wonderfully compliant snowflake.

Thank you and I live in a very neighborly neighborhood. If someone is walking towards me, I'll walk in the street to protect us both. If I go to the grocery store I'll wear a mask to protect me and everyone else. I'll stay home and video chat with the family. A small price to pay in my estimation.

Your virtue level is quite commendable. I simply choose the commendable aspects of freedom.

 

[WEATHER53]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Are you willing to sign a pledge that you will not go to a hospital or clinic should you catch the virus? Should your decision to take risks put the doctors and nurses at greater risk. What about your need for a ventilator, are you willing to forgo that?

I'm taking a risk to bring you food and drink and toilet paper...should I stop doing that to reduce the risk to doctors and nurses? I'd be safer and they would be safer.

You'd starve and die with a dirty asshole...but that's a minor inconvenience right? It's for the greater good.

Sounds like you're a trucker, do you feel the safety rules covering truckers should be ignored? They should be allowed to drive as many hours straight as they want?

Absolutely. Did it for years. We referred to log books as joke books.


And they are being ignored right now...legally. All freight food or crisis relayed is exempt from Hours of Service Regulations

Emergency Declaration Under 49 CFR § 390.23 No. 2020-002 | FMCSA

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration March 13, 2020 EMERGENCY DECLARATION UNDER 49 CFR § 390.23 No. 2020-002

www.fmcsa.dot.gov

Thanks, I feel so much safer now.

Do you mind if I call you Alan?

You never answered my question Alan...should I have my trucks return home...to protect nurses and doctors? Cause I can do that.

Or are some risks acceptable to alleviate other types of suffering...

I've always said life is full of risks but it makes sense to mitigate them as much as possible. I drive my car AND use seat belts.

Great...now we're getting somewhere.

We agree that some risks must be taken to alleviate other dangers than the virus...like starvation for example.

And we agree that taking precautions against risk is an intelligent course of action.

So...is folks take precautions...like wearing a seatbelt or continuing social distancing...they can take risks...like reopening the economy of their states and returning to work...correct?

I don't think anyone is against re-opening the economy if there are reasonable rules in place as to how it is done.

Reasonable rules and a HUGE increase in TESTING ability.

Once that testing is widely available the results are going to DESTROY your talking points. What will you then say when we find out that it wasn't nearly as bad as we were led to believe?

Or, conversely, we could find that a whole bunch of asymptomatic people are walking around infecting everyone. What will YOU say when projections are accurate?

What if should never set aside what is.

 

[Siete]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

So your only responsibility is to yourself. Got it. I just hope you don't live in my neighborhood, we try and take care of each other.

And do you do that by attempting to restrict other people’s movements?
I guess I’m just not the caring and sharing person that you are when it comes to legal rights and freedom.
You are a wonderfully compliant snowflake.

Thank you and I live in a very neighborly neighborhood. If someone is walking towards me, I'll walk in the street to protect us both. If I go to the grocery store I'll wear a mask to protect me and everyone else. I'll stay home and video chat with the family. A small price to pay in my estimation.

Your virtue level is quite commendable. I simply choose the commendable aspects of freedom.

so you rip warning's on entrances down infringing on others freedoms -

you choose to be a piece of shit

 

[WEATHER53]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

So your only responsibility is to yourself. Got it. I just hope you don't live in my neighborhood, we try and take care of each other.

And do you do that by attempting to restrict other people’s movements?
I guess I’m just not the caring and sharing person that you are when it comes to legal rights and freedom.
You are a wonderfully compliant snowflake.

Thank you and I live in a very neighborly neighborhood. If someone is walking towards me, I'll walk in the street to protect us both. If I go to the grocery store I'll wear a mask to protect me and everyone else. I'll stay home and video chat with the family. A small price to pay in my estimation.

Your virtue level is quite commendable. I simply choose the commendable aspects of freedom.

so you rip warning's on entrances down infringing on others freedoms -

you choose to be a piece of shit

There are no freedoms to read notices posted on doors.
There are real freedoms that are being trampled to allow notices to be put on food stores doors.

 

[WEATHER53]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

So your only responsibility is to yourself. Got it. I just hope you don't live in my neighborhood, we try and take care of each other.

And do you do that by attempting to restrict other people’s movements?
I guess I’m just not the caring and sharing person that you are when it comes to legal rights and freedom.
You are a wonderfully compliant snowflake.

Thank you and I live in a very neighborly neighborhood. If someone is walking towards me, I'll walk in the street to protect us both. If I go to the grocery store I'll wear a mask to protect me and everyone else. I'll stay home and video chat with the family. A small price to pay in my estimation.

Your virtue level is quite commendable. I simply choose the commendable aspects of freedom.

so you rip warning's on entrances down infringing on others freedoms -

you choose to be a piece of shit

I got a win win for us
If you live in DC area let’s meet at your grocery store. If there are unlawful exercise of power notices on the door I will rip them down, you in turn can shriek at the sky and call the cops. I think the only thing preventing this beneficial win-win is do you have the courage to come out of the cellar?
Please advise.

 

[sakinago]

as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did

How exactly do you do that? Eliminate all social distancing rules and hope for the best or keep the rules in place while you plan for a phased recovery of the economy?

No, keep some common sense rules in place. Lock down the at risk pop for sure. But the only moral and logical decision is to get herd immunity in the healthy pop as soon as possible. After that keep the at risk pop on lockdown for another couple of months, and then reintroduce them. It’s fucked up to think you can lock away grandmas from the grand kids for 18 months? Like my hospital is eerily empty, and we’re taking some overflow from NY. They’re also talking about furloughing some RNs because hospitals aren’t making any money. Now is the perfect time to handle the influx from covid once everything is open. The dumbasses who have no fucking clue how diseases and transmission work also happen to be loudest right now saying shit doesn’t even make sense. I get y’all are scared, but stfu.

Yes, locking down the high risk population makes sense.
Locking down the whole population makes no sense at all.

In fact, it could be that we should all try to get COVID-19 this year, so that we will have some immunity before it comes back next year in a more leathal hybrid?

Early evidence indicates that those who have had covid19, are not building immunity to it. There are people in North Korea, and now Italy, who are getting the disease for a second time. This is very concerning to the whole "herd immunity" theory.

Also, there are strong indications that more people have the virus and are assymptomatic that was previously thought, which means while they're not getting sick, they're still spreading the disease to others who are getting sick and dying. The maternity ward in one New York hospital tested every woman coming in for labour and delivery because of several instances of people coming in with no symptions, who developed symptoms while in care, and the potential of spread the virus to staff. Their testing showed that 10% of the women coming in for labour and delivery were testing positive. If 10% of New Yorkers are positive, that's 1 million people, in just New York.

The other issue is that the disease does a LOT of damage - to the heart, lungs, and kidneys. It attacks a lot of systems and it does damage everywhere throughout the body. What isn't known at this point, is whether or not the damage is permanent. And until we see how those recovering fare in the long term, we won't know the long term implications of that damage now.

The problem with all of these theories about moving forward is that they are all just "theories". We don't know how the virus is going to react to anything, because it's so new. Personally, I'm not prepared to jump out and get myself infected until all this stuff is known, and no smart person should either, because you have a 1/5 shot of having a serious case of this disease and you might end up permanently disabled by it. We just don't know what the implications will be today.

We don’t know, you’re right. What we do know is how immunity works, and how fast this disease spreads. This disease spreads pretty fucking fast, 3 times as fast (more effectively is the better term) than the common flu. We also know that this disease might mutate so radically so fast that it might reinfect people in a matter of a month or two. Meaning a vaccine in 12 months at best is a pipe dream. Vaccines are just old western WANTED posters telling our immune systems sheriffs who to look out for. If the virus is constantly changing disguises and facial hair and color, the WANTED poster isn’t going to work. Our best bet is to let our immune systems do it naturally.

 

[WEATHER53]

Why have health departments NEVER put the clamps down on diseased illegals but are now doing so to healthy Americans?
Why?
I’ll tell you why. Way too non PC and thus waaaaycist.

 

[WEATHER53]

I’m going over to Safeway at 4 corners to see if they have any non lawful decree orders and if so will take them down. I will attemp to do a selfie and post it here.
Thank you for your accolades in advance

 

[alang1216]

Your virtue level is quite commendable. I simply choose the commendable aspects of freedom.

Your freedom. Its impact on others is not your concern.

 

[my2¢]

People continue to need to go out for essential services. People ignoring stay at home guidelines are choosing to extend the situation.

Learn from history. This effected far more than just those that choose to go to the parade:
Philadelphia parade exposes thousands to Spanish flu