Your first amendment rights vs someone elses safety is a bogus argument

[bodecea]

The majority of Americans will make sure you won't be doing any such thing. We've crushed evil people in this county before and we'll do it again. We have the military and the police force on our side as well.

Government force. How predictable.

.

Ask David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh about government force when you break the law. Lots of Trumpers out there side or sympathize with the views of David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh. They are indeed enemies of the United States.

What law was Koresh breaking when the ATF attacked them? "Stockpiling weapons" is NOT, nor has it ever been, a crime in Texas or the U.S.

After that, their decisions were their own, but those decisions were brought on by angry/frustrated people who became fed up with GOVERNMENT OVERREACH.

Now, you want to make leaving one's house and assembling ILLEGAL and you want to use GOVERNMENT FORCE/OVERREACH to achieve it.

Get ready for more Koresh/McVeigh behavior from those who have reached their boiling point.

.

Noted. The government has the firepower and numbers to deal with such fools.

If government would stop exercising authority it does not have, you don't have to worry about such fools (and yes, they are fools).

It's hard to NOT sympathize with people who have reached their wits' end with government overreach, even when they are acting a fool.

.

You mean like the BLM movement?

 

[bodecea]

Was reminded today that during the WW2 London bombing blitz every one slept & sheltered in subway stations or shelters sleeping on cement floors four seventy six days, with out protesting how tough it was. Most ALL of those who protest now go home to warm beds & the safety of their homes, spoiled Americans?

Preppers and Survivalists shown to be snowflakes after all.

 

[Dragonlady]

The question of when to relax stay-at-home orders has become the latest front in the culture war, a conflict fanned by President Trump during his daily White House briefings. But a new Washington Post-University of Maryland poll shows that protesters agitating for governors to quickly lift restrictions represent the fringe more than the mainstream.

Just 10 percent of Americans predict that gatherings of 10 or more people would be safe by the end of April or earlier. Another 21 percent expect them to be safe by the end of May. But the other two-thirds of U.S. adults say it may take until June or later for people to safely congregate in groups of 10 or more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2020/04/21/daily-202-republicans-divide-over-reopening-u-s-based-on-how-worried-they-are-about-getting-coronavirus/5e9e93ed602ff10d49ae9ff7/

Public opinion is useless in a debate. We don't care what "everybody" thinks. It's irrelevant and fallacious.

That's the problem with the right. They're so fucking sure that they're RIGHT (no pun intended), that they won't listen to any other point of view. Liberals are the opposite. They're never sure they're doing the right thing. They question everything, which is why conservatives don't fact check and liberals fact check like cracy.

It leaves conversatives open to all sorts of problems that the left never has to face. Like the pervasive lies which are sold to conservatives by what passes for "leadership" in the Republican Party. Like Donald Trump's birther lies, which are still believed by 30% of Republicans.

Republicans put truth to the old adage that a lie told often enough becomes the truth, and nowhere is that more evident in their lies about the following topics:

1. Hillary Clinton is a criminal;

2. Climate change is a hoax. Scientists are divided on the reasons;

3. Liberals want to destroy America;

4. White people and Christians are the people who are really being persecuted in the USA; and

5. The free market can do everything better and cheaper than any government program. One need only look at how effective a response your "for profit" medical system gave to the corona virus. Only in America were there no tests, no PPE's, and shortages of everything.


In countries with government funded health care systems, there was a coordination of preparations and supplies that kicked in automatically to give their leadership an up to date inventory, and allowed them to direct resources to where they were most needed, in a timely way. The governments then used their massive buying power to make bulk purchases from suppliers, and ship them directly to hospitals in hot zones, directly from the manufacturers.

While American healthcare workers were marching in the streets for PPE's, this hasn't been an issue in any other first world country, where national buying has ensured the lowest costs to our healthcare systems, while American hospitals are involved in bidding wars for essential testing supplies, medications, and PPE's, driving up the costs for America's entire pandemic response.

 

[bodecea]

The majority of Americans will make sure you won't be doing any such thing. We've crushed evil people in this county before and we'll do it again. We have the military and the police force on our side as well.

Government force. How predictable.

.

CRCs crying about taking responsibility....how predictable.

Taking responsibility's got nothing to do with it.

.

To CRCs, of course not. Responsibility is not a word they like.

Of course, the thing to do now is to re-open White House and Capitol tours.

 

[Missourian]

Preppers and Survivalists shown to be snowflakes after all.

You calling me a snowflake Swabbie

Glad you are back.

 

[bodecea]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

It's called SHOVING YOUR TALKING POINTS IN YOUR FACE.

#DEALWITHIT

So easily triggered.

 

[progressive hunter]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

abortion is about killing another persons body not the mothers,,,

 

[Coyote]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

It's called SHOVING YOUR TALKING POINTS IN YOUR FACE.

#DEALWITHIT

Oh I'm dealing with it just fine. I'm not the one whining about how my rights are being infringed on because I have to temporarily maintain social distance to try and prevent further spread of this pandemic. How inconvenient!

Especially when I think about what people in the past had to do under quarantine - I don't think they whined anywhere near what they do today. I am not talking about those worried for the economy and jobs. They have a point, with no easy solution.

 

[Coyote]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

abortion is about killing another persons body not the mothers,,,

Not maintaining quantize guidelines is deliberately putting a more vulnerable person's life in danger. No difference. You are making the active choice, based on convenience, to endanger and possibly kill another person.

 

[progressive hunter]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

abortion is about killing another persons body not the mothers,,,

Not maintaining quantize guidelines is deliberately putting a more vulnerable person's life in danger. No difference. You are making the active choice, based on convenience, to endanger and possibly kill another person.

so do you by driving a car,,,

 

[Coyote]

There is a certain hypocrisy in the argument people are making....

View attachment 326158

and secondly...most of the protesters are likely pro-life, sworn to protect our most vulnerable...

Except now, when their rights to make choices for their own bodies, conflict with our most vulnerable citizen’s rights to ... live during a temporary shutdown due to a pandemic.

How dare they be INCONVENIENCED.

abortion is about killing another persons body not the mothers,,,

Not maintaining quantize guidelines is deliberately putting a more vulnerable person's life in danger. No difference. You are making the active choice, based on convenience, to endanger and possibly kill another person.

so do you by driving a car,,,

Nope. If everyone obeys the laws, no one is unduly endangered.

You guys don't want to follow the laws and rules because it's "inconvenient", you would rather choose to endanger other people and prolong the epidemic.

 

[sakinago]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Are you willing to sign a pledge that you will not go to a hospital or clinic should you catch the virus? Should your decision to take risks put the doctors and nurses at greater risk. What about your need for a ventilator, are you willing to forgo that?

Wtf kind of logic is this? How would one even be able to prove they got covid from being at a protest vs getting it grocery shopping or from the handle on the gas pump??? People use your brains. Jesus Christ.

Here’s the truth. A vaccine is a pipe dream. This is 3 times more infectious than the common flu (most likely even more, we don’t have effective testing to see the real numbers). We will have herd immunity long before a vaccine can be developed. Btw, a successful vaccine isn’t even a guarantee, even if it is it’ll come too late and we’ll be worried about covid-21. We will almost all eventually catch this. Here’s the good news, this isn’t as deadly as we initially thought, but is still more deadly than the flu. We should be going for something similar to the Swedish model. Our hospitals are half empty now, are quickly running out of money. The Swedish model just ripped the herd immunity bandaid off quickly, and it looks like it’s really paying off for them now. It was the only logical and realistic thing to do, because it is inevitable...as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did. Problem is, most countries want their government to do a song and dance for them so they feel safe. So the politicians are obliging them. And dumb people like you say the stupid shit you just did. Just so idiotic.

 

[alang1216]

as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did

How exactly do you do that? Eliminate all social distancing rules and hope for the best or keep the rules in place while you plan for a phased recovery of the economy?

 

[WEATHER53]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

 

[alang1216]

The people at the protests and anyone else out in public is CHOOSING to be there.
It's no different than when you CHOOSE to go someplace. Be it the store or the bank or the gas station or restaurant for carry out or liquor store or wherever.
If people are afraid for their safety then they should exercise their CHOICE to stay home.
Martial law has not been declared so your constitutional rights CAN NOT BE INFRINGED UPON and your choice to protest is protected under the first amendment.
Essentially if those people are endangering anyone it is others who also chose to be there via their rights.

Goto ANY home Depot and look at all the people buying things for their homes and property. Why is that allowed but sitting in a church parking lot in your car listening to a sermon is not?

People accepted the lockdowns to beat the curve so as to not overwhelm our medical system as it ramped up to deal with this. The protests did not start until local governments started arresting people for doing things that were completely benign.

Bottom line is if someone is putting you "at risk" it is because you are also not following the orders. No one is shopping or protesting in your living room.

And lol at the media & leftists saying that protesting is racist. Y'all have lost your marbles.

Utterly correct. Obsessed about your health? Stay home. Don’t demsnd others do it for you, that’s Lib 101 abdication of personal responsibility

So your only responsibility is to yourself. Got it. I just hope you don't live in my neighborhood, we try and take care of each other.

 

[sakinago]

as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did

How exactly do you do that? Eliminate all social distancing rules and hope for the best or keep the rules in place while you plan for a phased recovery of the economy?

No, keep some common sense rules in place. Lock down the at risk pop for sure. But the only moral and logical decision is to get herd immunity in the healthy pop as soon as possible. After that keep the at risk pop on lockdown for another couple of months, and then reintroduce them. It’s fucked up to think you can lock away grandmas from the grand kids for 18 months? Like my hospital is eerily empty, and we’re taking some overflow from NY. They’re also talking about furloughing some RNs because hospitals aren’t making any money. Now is the perfect time to handle the influx from covid once everything is open. The dumbasses who have no fucking clue how diseases and transmission work also happen to be loudest right now saying shit doesn’t even make sense. I get y’all are scared, but stfu.

 

[Rigby5]

Allowing people to pick and choose whether they will comply is no way to beat this virus

There is no vaccine
There is no cure
There is a serious lack of test kits.

The only way to beat it is to keep people isolated

Not so sure.
First of all, to put it in perspective:
{...
Unhealthy eating is linked to 400,000 US deaths per year — study
Experts say Americans are eating too much salty, fatty and sugary fare, and not enough fruit
...}

Unhealthy eating is linked to 400,000 US deaths per year — study

Experts say Americans are eating too much salty, fatty and sugary fare, and not enough fruit

gulfnews.com

Second of all, the death total from COVID-19 in the US is still less than the seasonal flu, which also has no vaccine, cure, or tests.

Third is that the reality is that everyone eventually gets all airborn viruses like this, so all the lock down does is slow it down some.

Forth is that keeping people isolated causes much more harm than the disease.
When you prevent a small business from being open, you cause them to lose their business, home, income, ability to buy food, shelter, ability to isolate, etc.
That is far more deadly.

 

[Rigby5]

There's plenty of polling on stay-at-home orders, and they're quite popular.

Your polling does not Trump MY RIGHTS

Your rights aren't being violated, snowflake. Shut up, stay home and wait for the all clear. You violate others right to life by gathering in large, stupid, unprotected groups.

View attachment 326134

The lock down most certainly IS violating rights.
We have a right to conduct our business and life.
That can be infringed upon somewhat if necessary, in order to defend the rights of others, but it is not clear closing parks or road blocks to restrict travel helps anyone.
In fact, using police to stop people and check papers clearly is going to spread infection far more than if you just let people do whatever they want.

If others want to gather in large unprotected groups, they only harm each other.
They do not harm you as long as you socially distance from them.
So you do not get to say anything about it.

 

[Rigby5]

as long as you ensure you don’t get overwhelmed like Italy did

How exactly do you do that? Eliminate all social distancing rules and hope for the best or keep the rules in place while you plan for a phased recovery of the economy?

No, keep some common sense rules in place. Lock down the at risk pop for sure. But the only moral and logical decision is to get herd immunity in the healthy pop as soon as possible. After that keep the at risk pop on lockdown for another couple of months, and then reintroduce them. It’s fucked up to think you can lock away grandmas from the grand kids for 18 months? Like my hospital is eerily empty, and we’re taking some overflow from NY. They’re also talking about furloughing some RNs because hospitals aren’t making any money. Now is the perfect time to handle the influx from covid once everything is open. The dumbasses who have no fucking clue how diseases and transmission work also happen to be loudest right now saying shit doesn’t even make sense. I get y’all are scared, but stfu.

Yes, locking down the high risk population makes sense.
Locking down the whole population makes no sense at all.

In fact, it could be that we should all try to get COVID-19 this year, so that we will have some immunity before it comes back next year in a more leathal hybrid?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It's always in reaction to an existing "problem" that affects very few, but the laws enacted to "prevent" criminal behavior affect everyone and shit on everyone's rights.
[...]
To Government - the cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems...

There are very few murders but I'd still like to keep those laws. It is not gov't that shits on everyone's rights it is society, or at least a majority of them, shits on their own rights.

I doubt ANYONE believes Government is the cause of or and solution to all of life's problems. On the other hand I'd wager EVERYONE, even libertarians, believes gov't has a role to play in our lives.

Of course government has a role. Even Thomas Jefferson, who absolutely abhorred all forms of government, called it a necessary evil. I, a hardcore libertarian (a real liberal) agree.

It's not murder that we're bitching about. It's limiting other rights because I MIGHT one day decide to be a murderer. It's chopping all dicks because one might one day decide to become a rapist.

Society (the rich and powerful) uses government to control others (the powerless), usually in okay-for-me-but-not-for-thee fashion. We MUST keep THAT in check.

.