100% of Economists Disagree with Trump

[Synthaholic]

Americans are as smart as door knobs

We finally agree.

 

[Synthaholic]

If a bunch of economists are against it...argues pretty strongly in favor of it.

When was the last time an economist was right about anything.

Paul Krugman is constantly correct on economic matters.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, step up.

 

[The Rabbi]

Americans are as smart as door knobs

We finally agree.

You two prove it every day on this board.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yep free trade has done WONDERS for Americans. I can point out at LEAST 25 plants/factories I either worked at or family members worked at OR people were working at as I was growing up that are now CLOSED either gone overseas or just closed down because of CHEAP CRAP from overseas. Trump is right 100%. PERIOD.

So...if Trump gets elected (

), and goes ahead with this, and now almost everything you buy goes up 40%, how will you blame Democrats?

 

[The Rabbi]

If a bunch of economists are against it...argues pretty strongly in favor of it.

When was the last time an economist was right about anything.

Paul Krugman is constantly correct on economic matters.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, step up.

You are consistently among the least informed posters here.
The Unofficial Paul Krugman Web Page

 

[Indeependent]

The Value-Added Tax Is Wrong for the United States

VAT Flaws

While the VAT has some advantages over other taxes, it is far from trouble free. The VAT has several inherent problems.

Hidden Tax. The VAT’s biggest flaw is that, unless mandated otherwise, the amount of VAT paid by taxpayers is hidden. (See Chart 1.) In this example, the consumer knows only that the price of the shirt is $22.00. Because the VAT is typically not printed on the sales receipt, the consumer does not know that the price includes a 10 percent ($2.00) VAT. One fundamental principle of sound taxation is transparency, and most nations’ VATs flagrantly violate this principle.

State and local sales taxes are explicitly shown on sales receipts so consumers know the cost of the good before and after the tax. Even though a VAT would raise the final cost of goods and services in the same way, the VAT is typically not shown on sales receipts because politicians hide the steep price of the VAT and their policies from taxpayers.

Even if the VAT is shown on receipts, taxpayers are highly unlikely to keep their receipts and total their VAT for the year. Politicians especially like the VAT because it obscures the tax burden and the true cost of government services from taxpayers. This can lead taxpayers to demand more government services because they wrongly perceive that the prices of such services are lower than they are. In a democratic state, the cost of taxes and government should be as explicit as possible so that taxpayers and voters can make fully informed decisions about the size of government.


That is from HERITAGE...........HARDLY A LIBERAL MOUTH PIECE.ON THE VAT.

You've made the choice between tariffs v. VAT, not VAT v nothing.

A VAT is better than tariffs. It is the lesser of two evils.

Here is the Heritage Foundation on free trade.

International trade is the framework upon which American prosperity rests. Free trade policies have created a level of competition in today's open market that engenders continual innovation and leads to better products, better-paying jobs, new markets, and increased savings and investment. Free trade enables more goods and services to reach American consumers at lower prices, thereby substantially increasing their standard of living.

Moreover, the benefits of free trade extend well beyond American households. Free trade helps to spread the value of freedom, reinforce the rule of law, and foster economic development in poor countries. The national debate over trade-related issues too often ignores these important benefits.​

The Benefits of Free Trade: A Guide For Policymakers

That is exactly correct.

The Heritage Foundation...Uh Oh.
In other words, fvck the other 99 people in the room.

 

[eagle1462010]

The bottom line is that the favored Conservative theories, in practice, DON'T WORK.
And Trump has sat down and explained his view, MORE THAN ONCE, in much more than a Sound Bite.

Yes, Trump is saying that capitalism - at least this part of capitalism - doesn't work.

Thanks for that.

Yet, his supporters - "conservatives" who would otherwise tell me that capitalism is better than socialism - are agreeing with you.

Tariffs are socialism.

BS...............Tariff is a tax to fund Gov't.................plain and simple..............Just as the VAT tax does the same........They are both Consumption taxes............Just use a SALES TAX versus a FLAT TAX so it isn't hidden anymore...............aka when you pay under Cruz's plan the amount in tax will not be on the receipt..............but it will still be there................Just as the increased cost for a vehicle due to a Tariff will not be seen on the final bill.

They are not the same.

That's what I have been telling you repeatedly in this thread.

Tariffs distort the economy and destroy wealth more than VAT taxes.

That's why 100% of economists - or 95% or 90% or whatever really high percentage you want to choose - disagree with you.

It is simply understanding the dynamics of supply and demand. It's understanding capitalism. It is Economics 101.

I understand that our companies are LEAVING...........


Common Sense says we will LOSE THOSE JOBS when they leave...............

When they cut the deals they argued about the TPA................DISPLACED WORKER ASSISTANCE............aka THEY KNOW WE'LL LOSE JOBS AS A RESULT....................

But you will say, we would have lost them anyway..............get over it..............Tell that to the people who used to have middle class wage jobs flipping burgers now as a result...................I'm sure they will give you some special sauce for your opinion.

 

[Synthaholic]

Who should we believe? The man that's spent 35-40 years CUTTING DEALS,STARTING BUSINESSES etc or people who TALK about doing these things? I know who I believe in and trust.

His businesses fail, while he's screwing over people he signed contracts with.

How the fuck do you own a casino and not make money?

Trump found a way.

 

[Indeependent]

Yep free trade has done WONDERS for Americans. I can point out at LEAST 25 plants/factories I either worked at or family members worked at OR people were working at as I was growing up that are now CLOSED either gone overseas or just closed down because of CHEAP CRAP from overseas. Trump is right 100%. PERIOD.

So...if Trump gets elected (

), and goes ahead with this, and now almost everything you buy goes up 40%, how will you blame Democrats?

The void will be filled and more people will be employed and products will be bought.
Nah! We can't have THAT!

 

[Indeependent]

Who should we believe? The man that's spent 35-40 years CUTTING DEALS,STARTING BUSINESSES etc or people who TALK about doing these things? I know who I believe in and trust.

His businesses fail, while he's screwing over people he signed contracts with.

How the fuck do you own a casino and not make money?

Trump found a way.

Wow! He has 1,000 business and 4 failed.
What a loser!

 

[eagle1462010]

The bottom line is that the favored Conservative theories, in practice, DON'T WORK.
And Trump has sat down and explained his view, MORE THAN ONCE, in much more than a Sound Bite.

Yes, Trump is saying that capitalism - at least this part of capitalism - doesn't work.

Thanks for that.

Yet, his supporters - "conservatives" who would otherwise tell me that capitalism is better than socialism - are agreeing with you.

Tariffs are socialism.

BS...............Tariff is a tax to fund Gov't.................plain and simple..............Just as the VAT tax does the same........They are both Consumption taxes............Just use a SALES TAX versus a FLAT TAX so it isn't hidden anymore...............aka when you pay under Cruz's plan the amount in tax will not be on the receipt..............but it will still be there................Just as the increased cost for a vehicle due to a Tariff will not be seen on the final bill.

They are not the same.

That's what I have been telling you repeatedly in this thread.

Tariffs distort the economy and destroy wealth more than VAT taxes.

That's why 100% of economists - or 95% or 90% or whatever really high percentage you want to choose - disagree with you.

It is simply understanding the dynamics of supply and demand. It's understanding capitalism. It is Economics 101.

Liberals do not understand economics.
Sadly a lot of self styled conservatives dont either.

You will never sell me on this...............EVER................Both are consumption taxes..................both JACK up prices............I pay more either way..........................

If I have to pay either way..................wellllllllllllllllllllllllllll........I'll take a Tariff behind door number 2 Monty.

 

[Synthaholic]

You think we won't be able too deal without Chinese tvs

No TVs are manufactured in America.

 

[Synthaholic]

Who should we believe? The man that's spent 35-40 years CUTTING DEALS,STARTING BUSINESSES etc or people who TALK about doing these things? I know who I believe in and trust.

His businesses fail, while he's screwing over people he signed contracts with.

How the fuck do you own a casino and not make money?

Trump found a way.

Wow! He has 1,000 business and 4 failed.
What a loser!

He doesn't have 1000 businesses. He has a few. Hotels and golf courses.

 

[Toro]

But you will say, we would have lost them anyway..............get over it..............Tell that to the people who used to have middle class wage jobs flipping burgers now as a result...................I'm sure they will give you some special sauce for your opinion.

If you want to support leftist, wealth-destroying policies so we can spread the wealth around and redistribute it in the economy, that's fine. Just be honest about it. Because that's what tariffs do.

 

[Synthaholic]

Based on the far left OP..

100% encomiasts agree that socialism is bad for everyone!

Please delete this post - you neglected to insert the word 'drone'.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Value-Added Tax Is Wrong for the United States

VAT Flaws

While the VAT has some advantages over other taxes, it is far from trouble free. The VAT has several inherent problems.

Hidden Tax. The VAT’s biggest flaw is that, unless mandated otherwise, the amount of VAT paid by taxpayers is hidden. (See Chart 1.) In this example, the consumer knows only that the price of the shirt is $22.00. Because the VAT is typically not printed on the sales receipt, the consumer does not know that the price includes a 10 percent ($2.00) VAT. One fundamental principle of sound taxation is transparency, and most nations’ VATs flagrantly violate this principle.

State and local sales taxes are explicitly shown on sales receipts so consumers know the cost of the good before and after the tax. Even though a VAT would raise the final cost of goods and services in the same way, the VAT is typically not shown on sales receipts because politicians hide the steep price of the VAT and their policies from taxpayers.

Even if the VAT is shown on receipts, taxpayers are highly unlikely to keep their receipts and total their VAT for the year. Politicians especially like the VAT because it obscures the tax burden and the true cost of government services from taxpayers. This can lead taxpayers to demand more government services because they wrongly perceive that the prices of such services are lower than they are. In a democratic state, the cost of taxes and government should be as explicit as possible so that taxpayers and voters can make fully informed decisions about the size of government.


That is from HERITAGE...........HARDLY A LIBERAL MOUTH PIECE.ON THE VAT.

You've made the choice between tariffs v. VAT, not VAT v nothing.

A VAT is better than tariffs. It is the lesser of two evils.

Here is the Heritage Foundation on free trade.

International trade is the framework upon which American prosperity rests. Free trade policies have created a level of competition in today's open market that engenders continual innovation and leads to better products, better-paying jobs, new markets, and increased savings and investment. Free trade enables more goods and services to reach American consumers at lower prices, thereby substantially increasing their standard of living.

Moreover, the benefits of free trade extend well beyond American households. Free trade helps to spread the value of freedom, reinforce the rule of law, and foster economic development in poor countries. The national debate over trade-related issues too often ignores these important benefits.​

The Benefits of Free Trade: A Guide For Policymakers

That is exactly correct.

I made the comparison because one candidate wants tariffs and the other wants a VAT....................If you gave me the option of VAT OR NOTHING.....................I'll choose option B...............NOTHING...................

I oppose Cruz's tax plan.....................I'm not in bed with Trump either.................

So I'll take OPTION C..................Flat Tax at a rate on my income with A and B out. aka Carson who will not take the spot now. In regards to Free Trade.................Back to the way it worked before this BS.

 

[Kosh]

Based on the far left OP..

100% encomiasts agree that socialism is bad for everyone!

Please delete this post - you neglected to insert the word 'drone'.

Says the far left drone!

See how the far left drones act when they can not deal with facts!

 

[Kosh]

But you will say, we would have lost them anyway..............get over it..............Tell that to the people who used to have middle class wage jobs flipping burgers now as a result...................I'm sure they will give you some special sauce for your opinion.

If you want to support leftist, wealth-destroying policies so we can spread the wealth around and redistribute it in the economy, that's fine. Just be honest about it. Because that's what tariffs do.

And yet another claim by a far left drone with zero facts to back it up..

 

[Kosh]

Who should we believe? The man that's spent 35-40 years CUTTING DEALS,STARTING BUSINESSES etc or people who TALK about doing these things? I know who I believe in and trust.

His businesses fail, while he's screwing over people he signed contracts with.

How the fuck do you own a casino and not make money?

Trump found a way.

Wow! He has 1,000 business and 4 failed.
What a loser!

He doesn't have 1000 businesses. He has a few. Hotels and golf courses.

So do the unions!

Silly far left drone!

 

[eagle1462010]

But you will say, we would have lost them anyway..............get over it..............Tell that to the people who used to have middle class wage jobs flipping burgers now as a result...................I'm sure they will give you some special sauce for your opinion.

If you want to support leftist, wealth-destroying policies so we can spread the wealth around and redistribute it in the economy, that's fine. Just be honest about it. Because that's what tariffs do.

Only a matter of time before being called a leftist................And I'm not for SPREADING THE WEALTH and REDISTRIBUTE BS EITHER................

I said I'm against Cruz's VAT....................I'm ok with Tariffs and some forms of protectionism..............If you are talking Welfare reform then you aren't even close to what I think about it.

For 200 years we negotiated directly with other countries on Trade. It is a PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT under the Constitution..................To give that to a FOREIGN BODY OR COURT to me is reckless and against the fundamentals of the Constitution.......................

You want Free Trade with us China??????????? Then END YOUR QUOTA'S...................or we will put QUOTA'S ON YOUR GOODS...................Give and take negotiation. One on one. Not to be decided by a WTO court in Brussels.