14 and 17 year old injured in shooting, why can't guns be banned?

[Skull Pilot]

Then you will have to trade their criminals for our criminals....is that possible? Their criminals, in the past, have not been prone to murdering each other....our kill each other over facebook insults...different criminal cultures.

No, their criminals don't have easy access to guns. ours do.

This really, really isn't complicated.

Then why is our crime and murder rate going down not up?

And if it's so easy to get a gun why don't you walk into town and buy an illegal gun then tell us how easy it was?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

You keep claiming firearms cause MORE murder more violence yet in the States that is FLATLY proven wrong since the number of firearms went UP and crime went DOWN dumb ass.

The amount of guns is only one factor in the crime rate.

No the amount if ILLEGALLY obtained guns is a factor in the crime rate.

And I have already demonstrated that the number of guns has had no effect on the murder rate of the UK. All the gun laws in the UK have not reduced their murder rte below what it was before all the gun laws were passed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

You keep claiming firearms cause MORE murder more violence yet in the States that is FLATLY proven wrong since the number of firearms went UP and crime went DOWN dumb ass.

The amount of guns is only one factor in the crime rate.

No....the gun crime rate is what we are discussing here...and in london it went up 42% just last year and is up all over Britain.....after they banned and confiscated guns....the exact opposite of what we did here...and our gun crime rate went down 75%...our gun murder rate went down 49%.....

Still just 0.23 gun deaths per 100,000 people. You can't whine your way past that.

Still using suicides to pad your numbers

 

[2aguy]

Only a complete imbecile would think like that. Only an abject moron would repeat the same mistake that our Constitution sought to help the people of a nation avoid. But your biggest mistake is thinking that the foundation of gun ownership in the US is based on personal protection.

Maybe if you ever did some reading you'd learn what the real purpose of gun ownership is.
But that''d be like asking a camel to talk nuclear physics.....

Maybe if you spent some time in Venezuela you'd get it. Keep pushing....you'll end up in your own Venezuela sucking some dictators boots, idiot.

People that blame guns for violence are at the bottom of the freaking IQ barrel. Excuse me, UNDER the barrel.

I don't have a problem with guns. I have several myself. I have a problem with them being present in every thing you do and every place you go. Gun nuts who think they need to be armed 24/7 scare me to death. Back when the NRA was more concerned with gun safety instead of gun sales, they said guns should be safely stored away unless you were going to or from a reasonable place where you intended to use them. (Practice, hunting, etc.) My 6 year old niece's dance recital is not a reasonable place to be armed. It is not reasonable for guns to be present when I stop at a convenience store to get a loaf of bread. Guns are great if they are kept and used in reasonable, safe places. Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun. Gun nuts were dangerous back then too.

Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun.


Are you actually stupid...or do you just pretend to be stupid when you post....the Tombstone concept shows just how stupid you are.....they had gun control in Tombstone....and the criminals ignored the law.......as your fucking post shows, dumbass......the law abiding obeyed the stupid gun control laws, the criminals didn't...even Doc Holiday ignored the gun laws...dumb ass......try actually understanding what you are posting....it would help...a lot....

Yes, the criminal ignored the law, and the Marshall and his deputies took it away from him. Doc Holiday was a sworn in temporary policeman. He was supposed to carry a gun. Dumb ass 0.23 per 100,000

No moron........the criminals ignored the law....and no Holiday was not a sworn officer when he was breaking the law carrying guns....moron.

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many people who ignored Tombstone gun control....and he was a good guy....

Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver. But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe

-----

Boyle later testified he noticed Ike was armed and covered his gun for him. Boyle later said that Ike told him, "'As soon as the Earps and Doc Holliday showed themselves on the street, the ball would open—that they would have to fight'...

------

Later in the morning, Ike picked up his rifle and revolver from the West End Corral, where he had deposited his weapons and stabled his wagon and team after entering town.

By noon that day, Ike was still drinking and once-again armed in violation of the city ordinance against carrying firearms in the city.

--------

Tom McLaury's concealed weapon[edit]

Outside the court house where Ike was being fined, Wyatt almost walked into 28 year-old Tom McLaury as the two men were brought up short nose-to-nose. Tom, who had arrived in town the day before, was required by the well-known city ordinance to deposit his pistol when he first arrived in town.


When Wyatt demanded, "Are you heeled or not?", McLaury said he was not armed. Wyatt testified that he saw arevolver in plain sight on the right hip of Tom's pants

----------

Billy and Frank stopped first at the Grand Hotel on Allen Street, and were greeted by Doc Holliday. They learned immediately after of their brothers' beatings by the Earps within the previous two hours. The incidents had generated a lot of talk in town. Angrily, Frank said he would not drink, and he and Billy left the saloon immediately to seek Tom.

By law, both Frank and Billy should have left their firearms at the Grand Hotel. Instead, they remained fully armed.[2]:49[57]:190

--------

Virgil testified afterward that he thought he saw all four men, Ike Clanton, Billy Clanton, Frank McLaury, and Tom McLaury, buying cartridges.[79] Wyatt said that he saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury in Spangenberger's gun and hardware store on 4th Street filling theirgun belts with cartridges


Hmmmmmmmm...doesn't seem like the Tombstone gun control laws worked so far...

Virgil initially avoided a confrontation with the newly arrived Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton, who had not yet deposited their weapons at a hotel or stable as the law required.

------------

At about 2:30 pm he saw Ike, Frank, Tom, and Billy gathered off Fremont street. Behan attempted to persuade Frank McLaury to give up his weapons, but Frank insisted that he would only give up his guns after City Marshal Virgil Earp and his brothers were disarmed.[81]

-----------

Citizens reported to Virgil on the Cowboys' movements that Ike and Tom had left their livery stable and returned to town while armed, in violation of the city ordinance.

You really should read your own links goober.

View attachment 148270

He wasn't a Temporary policeman when he was illegally carrying the gun he used to shoot those men.....hence the term "temporary".....moron. They deputized him right before the O.K. corral........other than that he carried an illegal gun all the time....moron.

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

 

[2aguy]

Only a complete imbecile would think like that. Only an abject moron would repeat the same mistake that our Constitution sought to help the people of a nation avoid. But your biggest mistake is thinking that the foundation of gun ownership in the US is based on personal protection.

Maybe if you ever did some reading you'd learn what the real purpose of gun ownership is.
But that''d be like asking a camel to talk nuclear physics.....

Maybe if you spent some time in Venezuela you'd get it. Keep pushing....you'll end up in your own Venezuela sucking some dictators boots, idiot.

People that blame guns for violence are at the bottom of the freaking IQ barrel. Excuse me, UNDER the barrel.

I don't have a problem with guns. I have several myself. I have a problem with them being present in every thing you do and every place you go. Gun nuts who think they need to be armed 24/7 scare me to death. Back when the NRA was more concerned with gun safety instead of gun sales, they said guns should be safely stored away unless you were going to or from a reasonable place where you intended to use them. (Practice, hunting, etc.) My 6 year old niece's dance recital is not a reasonable place to be armed. It is not reasonable for guns to be present when I stop at a convenience store to get a loaf of bread. Guns are great if they are kept and used in reasonable, safe places. Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun. Gun nuts were dangerous back then too.

Even Old Tombstone made you check your gun when you came to town. The OK Corral wasn't a corral. It was an alley, and the gunfight happened as the Marshall was enforcing the gun check law on someone who refused to check his gun.


Are you actually stupid...or do you just pretend to be stupid when you post....the Tombstone concept shows just how stupid you are.....they had gun control in Tombstone....and the criminals ignored the law.......as your fucking post shows, dumbass......the law abiding obeyed the stupid gun control laws, the criminals didn't...even Doc Holiday ignored the gun laws...dumb ass......try actually understanding what you are posting....it would help...a lot....

Yes, the criminal ignored the law, and the Marshall and his deputies took it away from him. Doc Holiday was a sworn in temporary policeman. He was supposed to carry a gun. Dumb ass 0.23 per 100,000

No moron........the criminals ignored the law....and no Holiday was not a sworn officer when he was breaking the law carrying guns....moron.

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many people who ignored Tombstone gun control....and he was a good guy....

Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver. But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe

-----

Boyle later testified he noticed Ike was armed and covered his gun for him. Boyle later said that Ike told him, "'As soon as the Earps and Doc Holliday showed themselves on the street, the ball would open—that they would have to fight'...

------

Later in the morning, Ike picked up his rifle and revolver from the West End Corral, where he had deposited his weapons and stabled his wagon and team after entering town.

By noon that day, Ike was still drinking and once-again armed in violation of the city ordinance against carrying firearms in the city.

--------

Tom McLaury's concealed weapon[edit]

Outside the court house where Ike was being fined, Wyatt almost walked into 28 year-old Tom McLaury as the two men were brought up short nose-to-nose. Tom, who had arrived in town the day before, was required by the well-known city ordinance to deposit his pistol when he first arrived in town.


When Wyatt demanded, "Are you heeled or not?", McLaury said he was not armed. Wyatt testified that he saw arevolver in plain sight on the right hip of Tom's pants

----------

Billy and Frank stopped first at the Grand Hotel on Allen Street, and were greeted by Doc Holliday. They learned immediately after of their brothers' beatings by the Earps within the previous two hours. The incidents had generated a lot of talk in town. Angrily, Frank said he would not drink, and he and Billy left the saloon immediately to seek Tom.

By law, both Frank and Billy should have left their firearms at the Grand Hotel. Instead, they remained fully armed.[2]:49[57]:190

--------

Virgil testified afterward that he thought he saw all four men, Ike Clanton, Billy Clanton, Frank McLaury, and Tom McLaury, buying cartridges.[79] Wyatt said that he saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury in Spangenberger's gun and hardware store on 4th Street filling theirgun belts with cartridges


Hmmmmmmmm...doesn't seem like the Tombstone gun control laws worked so far...

Virgil initially avoided a confrontation with the newly arrived Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton, who had not yet deposited their weapons at a hotel or stable as the law required.

------------

At about 2:30 pm he saw Ike, Frank, Tom, and Billy gathered off Fremont street. Behan attempted to persuade Frank McLaury to give up his weapons, but Frank insisted that he would only give up his guns after City Marshal Virgil Earp and his brothers were disarmed.[81]

-----------

Citizens reported to Virgil on the Cowboys' movements that Ike and Tom had left their livery stable and returned to town while armed, in violation of the city ordinance.

You really should read your own links goober.

View attachment 148270

Moron....Holiday was not a "temporary" policeman when he shot these men....with an illegally carried gun....moron...

Cowboys accuse Holliday of robbery[edit]
Milt Joyce, a county supervisor and owner of the Oriental Saloon, had a contentious relationship with Doc Holliday. In October 1880, Holliday had trouble with a gambler named Johnny Tyler in Milt Joyce's Oriental Saloon. Tyler had been hired by a competing gambling establishment to drive customers from the Oriental Saloon.[35] Holliday challenged Tyler to a fight, but Tyler ran. Joyce did not like Holliday or the Earps and he continued to argue with Holliday. Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver.

But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe. Joyce then hit Holliday over the head with his revolver.[75] Holliday was arrested and pleaded guilty to assault and battery.[76]


They asked Holiday to help them the day of the fight.......

Several members of the citizen's vigilance committee offered to support him with arms, but Virgil said no.[4] He had during the prior month appointed Morgan as a Special Policeman. He had also appointed Wyatt as a Special Policeman while Virgil had been in Prescott on business.

He had also called on Doc Holliday that morning for help with disarming the Clantons and McLaurys.[83]

Wyatt spoke of his brothers Virgil and Morgan as the "marshals" while he acted as "deputy."

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

Violent crime INCLUDES gun crime idiot

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Nobody in the UK would countenance having the same gun laws as the US. Nobody in the first world would do so.
Europe is a lot safer than the US and will be until you get some form of sanity on this issue.
Why do you allow yourselves to be slaughtered like this ?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

I have studies that show that armed Americans do lower the crime rate, though the biggest factor is police...since they actually solve and capture criminals.....but armed Americans can and do lower the crime rate.

As to the Pew result? What it shows is that everything you believe about guns and Americans owning guns is wrong. You guys keep telling us that more guns in more hands = more crime and more gun crime......and as over 20 years of actual gun ownership in the United States shows....that isn't true...so the fundamental argument you guys make for taking guns away from Americans....has no factual basis...at all....

And the data from Britain...shows that doing what you want...banning and confiscating guns.....does not lower the gun crime rate....and in fact, can lead to it going up...since gun crime in London went up 42% just last year, and their violent crime rate is through the roof......

I've counted. You have 6 different points to make, and you repeat them continuously, no matter how many times they have been shot down. Why don't you just number them so you don't have to do all that typing? It would be so much easier for you to post #5 and #2 instead of all that crap above.

They havent been shot down dumb ass. In the US more firearms has lead to LESS murder LESS crime. as PROVEN by the last 25 years statistics. You and your ilk have screamed that concealed and open carry would lead to MORE crime and yet NOT IN A SINGLE STATE has that happened ANYWHERE. No wild west shootouts like you claimed no extra murders no extra shootings. In fact it has lead to LESS crime and LESS murder.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Nobody in the UK would countenance having the same gun laws as the US. Nobody in the first world would do so.
Europe is a lot safer than the US and will be until you get some form of sanity on this issue.
Why do you allow yourselves to be slaughtered like this ?

And yet Islamo terrorists get fully automatic weapons and bombs when ever and here ever in Europe they want them.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Nobody in the UK would countenance having the same gun laws as the US. Nobody in the first world would do so.
Europe is a lot safer than the US and will be until you get some form of sanity on this issue.
Why do you allow yourselves to be slaughtered like this ?

And yet Islamo terrorists get fully automatic weapons and bombs when ever and here ever in Europe they want them.

That suggests that we need to work harder in support of our current laws rather than follow the craziness of the US. Also its worth noting that guns are not a major factor in the jihadi terrorism in he UK.

 

[BULLDOG]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

Violent crime INCLUDES gun crime idiot

Yes it does, but it is only a part, and the thread is about guns, not all the causes and remedies for the entire crime rate.

 

[BULLDOG]

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

I have studies that show that armed Americans do lower the crime rate, though the biggest factor is police...since they actually solve and capture criminals.....but armed Americans can and do lower the crime rate.

As to the Pew result? What it shows is that everything you believe about guns and Americans owning guns is wrong. You guys keep telling us that more guns in more hands = more crime and more gun crime......and as over 20 years of actual gun ownership in the United States shows....that isn't true...so the fundamental argument you guys make for taking guns away from Americans....has no factual basis...at all....

And the data from Britain...shows that doing what you want...banning and confiscating guns.....does not lower the gun crime rate....and in fact, can lead to it going up...since gun crime in London went up 42% just last year, and their violent crime rate is through the roof......

I've counted. You have 6 different points to make, and you repeat them continuously, no matter how many times they have been shot down. Why don't you just number them so you don't have to do all that typing? It would be so much easier for you to post #5 and #2 instead of all that crap above.

They havent been shot down dumb ass. In the US more firearms has lead to LESS murder LESS crime. as PROVEN by the last 25 years statistics. You and your ilk have screamed that concealed and open carry would lead to MORE crime and yet NOT IN A SINGLE STATE has that happened ANYWHERE. No wild west shootouts like you claimed no extra murders no extra shootings. In fact it has lead to LESS crime and LESS murder.

0.23 deaths per 100,000 is pretty hard to beat. How close do you think we are?

 

[2aguy]

Nobody in the UK would countenance having the same gun laws as the US. Nobody in the first world would do so.
Europe is a lot safer than the US and will be until you get some form of sanity on this issue.
Why do you allow yourselves to be slaughtered like this ?

And yet Islamo terrorists get fully automatic weapons and bombs when ever and here ever in Europe they want them.

That suggests that we need to work harder in support of our current laws rather than follow the craziness of the US. Also its worth noting that guns are not a major factor in the jihadi terrorism in he UK.

The current laws of taking guns away from normal, law abiding citizens have achieved what, exactly? An increase in gun crime, 42% in London alone, up all over the rest of the country.....and knife crime as well. The jihadi in Britain are following tradition......swords to cut off heads.....and the guys in France...rental trucks......

 

[2aguy]

It wasn't the same as here...since their culture didn't create criminals that commit murder. Now....their welfare culture can no longer civilize their young males...their violent crime rate is going through the roof and gun crime in London is up 42%....

While in the United States?


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

So is your contention that the reduction in crime rate is completely, or even mostly the result of more guns? What a goof.

I have studies that show that armed Americans do lower the crime rate, though the biggest factor is police...since they actually solve and capture criminals.....but armed Americans can and do lower the crime rate.

As to the Pew result? What it shows is that everything you believe about guns and Americans owning guns is wrong. You guys keep telling us that more guns in more hands = more crime and more gun crime......and as over 20 years of actual gun ownership in the United States shows....that isn't true...so the fundamental argument you guys make for taking guns away from Americans....has no factual basis...at all....

And the data from Britain...shows that doing what you want...banning and confiscating guns.....does not lower the gun crime rate....and in fact, can lead to it going up...since gun crime in London went up 42% just last year, and their violent crime rate is through the roof......

I've counted. You have 6 different points to make, and you repeat them continuously, no matter how many times they have been shot down. Why don't you just number them so you don't have to do all that typing? It would be so much easier for you to post #5 and #2 instead of all that crap above.

They havent been shot down dumb ass. In the US more firearms has lead to LESS murder LESS crime. as PROVEN by the last 25 years statistics. You and your ilk have screamed that concealed and open carry would lead to MORE crime and yet NOT IN A SINGLE STATE has that happened ANYWHERE. No wild west shootouts like you claimed no extra murders no extra shootings. In fact it has lead to LESS crime and LESS murder.

0.23 deaths per 100,000 is pretty hard to beat. How close do you think we are?

And that has nothing to do with their gun control laws...since their gun crime rate went up after they banned guns.....you can keep repeating an irrelevant number....their criminals haven't been murdering people....but as my posts show, they are now starting to murder, brutally, with guns......even children are no longer safe there.......

They have cut police numbers.

They have cut police budgets.

They have attacked police with political correctness.

They have imported violent immigrants.

Their social welfare state is creating violent sociopaths.

Tell me their murder rate isn't going to go up........

 

[2aguy]

Yes Great Britain is just the old wild west now days. They have 0.23 gun deaths from all causes (murder, accidental, suicide, etc) per 100,000 people, per year. We have 10.54 per 100,000 people . From the massive difference in those numbers, it's obvious they made the right call

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

No moron....we are talking murder.....their criminals commit less murder than ours do....as most of our gun murder is criminals killing other criminals. And again....our criminals murder without guns more than the entire murder rate in Britain......it is the murderous inclination of the criminal, not access to guns by law abiding citizens that creates the murder rate.

 

[2aguy]

Nobody in the UK would countenance having the same gun laws as the US. Nobody in the first world would do so.
Europe is a lot safer than the US and will be until you get some form of sanity on this issue.
Why do you allow yourselves to be slaughtered like this ?

No....your countries are becoming more and more violent and your people are defenseless as it increases....Britain is a nut house...violent crime, including gun crime is going up, not down.

We aren't being slaughtered...our criminals are killing each other. We had about 1,200 innocent people murdered with guns......in a country of over 320 million....the rest......are criminals killing other criminals......

 

[BULLDOG]

Except....banning and confiscating guns didn't reduce their gun murder rate....it was low before they put it into law, and then it went up after they passed it....so it failed.....

Now...their gun crime rate in London is up 42%....our gun crime rate went down 75% since the 90s......and their violent crime rate is through the roof....

You have to measure what happens when they pass those laws.....not compared to our criminals. British criminals do not commit murder as often as our criminals do....but they still have guns, as this story and all the rest I post show......and they are an island nation, with one of the most camera watched cities in the world, and they did everthing you guys want...and their gun crime rate went up, not down......

Gun control on normal, law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate......it increases it when the criminals decide to use guns...

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

No moron....we are talking murder.....their criminals commit less murder than ours do....as most of our gun murder is criminals killing other criminals. And again....our criminals murder without guns more than the entire murder rate in Britain......it is the murderous inclination of the criminal, not access to guns by law abiding citizens that creates the murder rate.

Mentioning gun crimes in england has nothing to do with here. You should call that whole "this happened in England" thing #5

 

[2aguy]

Don't be silly. They have only removed 200,000 guns in the last 15 years. They weren't a big problem to start with, compared to us. We have 300 million. Don't try to say that the gun problem in England is the same as it is here in any way. That's just nuts. Your comparison isn't apples to apples. It isn't even apples to oranges. It's closer to apples to Italian Literature.

Gun crime is up in the UK it is down in the US.

The UK laws are supposed to stop gun crime but it doesn't seem to be working does it?

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK's so if we take those as baselines we see that the UK's gun laws have not reduced the UK murder rate from the levels they were before all the gun laws were passed

Our non-gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate....

They don't understand...Britain is cutting police numbers, cutting police funding, attacking the police with politcal correcteness...they are importing violent immigrants from other countries who are now running their drug gangs, and their social welfare state has reached the point where the single teenage girls raising males...are raising sociopaths at a rate their culture can't civilize them...

Their violent crime is just going to go up.....

Our Auto accident rate is higher than theirs too, but that makes no difference either. We're talking about guns dumb ass.

No moron....we are talking murder.....their criminals commit less murder than ours do....as most of our gun murder is criminals killing other criminals. And again....our criminals murder without guns more than the entire murder rate in Britain......it is the murderous inclination of the criminal, not access to guns by law abiding citizens that creates the murder rate.

Mentioning gun crimes in england has nothing to do with here. You should call that whole "this happened in England" thing #5

As a stupid person, you would naturally think this way. Showing how gun banning and confiscation increased gun crime and overall violence in Britain is an example of why you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to guns, crime and violence. Then, showing how our gun murder rate went down 49%....our gun crime went down 75%....and our violent crime went down 72%....while Britain's gun crime rate has gone up, 42% in London alone, and their violent crime rate is going through the roof.......that is showing that banning guns increases crime.....letting normal people own and carry guns decreases crime......