16 killed in "freedom flotilla"!

[Nik]

Then work on that goal. If you and other muslims fix Islam then everything will work out. Destroying Israel is not the answer. Living in peace is the answer. To demand Israel be removed is not going to lead anywhere but death. If Islam is truely the "religion of peace" then let's see some peace. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing smoke up our ass.

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Wrong. What every Muslim needs is psychiatric help. To break away from the random violent psychotic ramblings of the insane pedophile Mohammad (curse his foul odious disgusting depraved name and memory and may the one true God, whose name is certainly NOT "Allah," shit on Mohammad), these poor afflicted blighted souls need to be able to see just how fucked up that bullshit "religion" actually is. The further they get away from that evil crap known as "Islam," the better off they and the world will be.

Gee. And with terribly enlightened opinions like this, I wonder why many Muslims want to blow up Americans? Why oh why would they think America is at war with them?

 

[AllieBaba]

Erm, not quite. I acknowledged that you provided a single example of something happening but pointed out that you have failed to provide examples of it happening on a large scale. This position of mine has not changed. I've been consistent throughout this discussion.

You make the mistake of assuming that I identify with all "Muslims." I consider the Iranian regime heretical and support the dismantlement of every state in the so-called Muslim world; none of them are truly Islamic and most of them are oppressive.




I've experienced far too much to believe that.

Then work on that goal. If you and other muslims fix Islam then everything will work out. Destroying Israel is not the answer. Living in peace is the answer. To demand Israel be removed is not going to lead anywhere but death. If Islam is truely the "religion of peace" then let's see some peace. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing smoke up our ass.

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

"Belligerent and oppressive" = anyone who doesn't cave to Islam.

 

[AllieBaba]

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Wrong. What every Muslim needs is psychiatric help. To break away from the random violent psychotic ramblings of the insane pedophile Mohammad (curse his foul odious disgusting depraved name and memory and may the one true God, whose name is certainly NOT "Allah," shit on Mohammad), these poor afflicted blighted souls need to be able to see just how fucked up that bullshit "religion" actually is. The further they get away from that evil crap known as "Islam," the better off they and the world will be.

Gee. And with terribly enlightened opinions like this, I wonder why many Muslims want to blow up Americans? Why oh why would they think America is at war with them?

Muslims want to blow up Americans because Americans aren't Muslims. Period and end of story.

 

[Nik]

Wrong. What every Muslim needs is psychiatric help. To break away from the random violent psychotic ramblings of the insane pedophile Mohammad (curse his foul odious disgusting depraved name and memory and may the one true God, whose name is certainly NOT "Allah," shit on Mohammad), these poor afflicted blighted souls need to be able to see just how fucked up that bullshit "religion" actually is. The further they get away from that evil crap known as "Islam," the better off they and the world will be.

Gee. And with terribly enlightened opinions like this, I wonder why many Muslims want to blow up Americans? Why oh why would they think America is at war with them?

Muslims want to blow up Americans because Americans aren't Muslims. Period and end of story.

Right. Which is why Muslims attack Asian countries just as much as they attack Western countries, right? And why Poland, which is much closer to the Middle East and much easier to attack than the US, has so many Muslim terrorist attacks, right?

 

[CurveLight]

The average every day "Palestinian" only has Hamas to blame for their living conditions. The Pals are being held hostage by Hamas. Not Israel.

Then work on that goal. If you and other muslims fix Islam then everything will work out. Destroying Israel is not the answer. Living in peace is the answer. To demand Israel be removed is not going to lead anywhere but death. If Islam is truely the "religion of peace" then let's see some peace. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing smoke up our ass.

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Wrong. What every Muslim needs is psychiatric help. To break away from the random violent psychotic ramblings of the insane pedophile Mohammad (curse his foul odious disgusting depraved name and memory and may the one true God, whose name is certainly NOT "Allah," shit on Mohammad), these poor afflicted blighted souls need to be able to see just how fucked up that bullshit "religion" actually is. The further they get away from that evil crap known as "Islam," the better off they and the world will be.

This pretty much sums up the ironic ignorance of the Islamophobes. Most ***** like the Snitch Bitch who share these idiot ramblings fully supported the iraq agenda which changed one of the few secular governments in the Middle East into an Islamic Theocracy. You bitches couldn't be any more self defeating. Could you?

 

[CurveLight]

Well Im out I have no further interest in conversing with people with such an embarrassing contempt for common recent history.
It is really quite amazing .
Thanks, I had no idea such people existed.

Rotfl!!!! Aren't you the dumbfuck that didn't know Hamas was democratically elected 4 years ago? But you want to accuse others on being ignorant of "recent history?"

Hahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[P F Tinmore]

They boarded a merchantman in international waters , they were carrying weapons, the crew defended their ship with whatever they had. What part of the word "piracy" are you not understanding?

Piracy is defined as an act of robbery at sea for profit. You are the only one who doesnt understand its meaning. Do you really think calling them pirates is going to somehow convince people thats what they are? Get serious man. Thats fucking retarded. The one thing both sides of this debate share in common is they know EXACTLY what the Israelis were doing there. They declared what they were doing a LONG time ago to the entire world.




Prove anything I have said is a lie. Until then the only laugh is you.

You said the Israelis attacked these peaceful people in international waters. Thats NOT what happened. For starters, those people werent peaceful at all, and it was the Israelis who were were attacked in international waters, not the other way around as you claimed. I have video proof of this. What evidence do you have to prove otherwise?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE]YouTube - Demonstrators Use Violence Against Israeli Navy Soldiers Attempting to Board Ship[/ame]

There you go. As per your request, you have thoroughly been proven to be a liar.

....

Are you really this fucking stupid?

Boarding someone elses boat is considered an attack.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpqnMrLv1bQ]YouTube - 30th July Video Free Gaza news Is Israel guilty of piracy[/ame]

 

[Jack Fate]

The average every day "Palestinian" only has Hamas to blame for their living conditions. The Pals are being held hostage by Hamas. Not Israel.

The next big money maker online will be setting up a pay-pal account with a poll for posts just like this one. When people make such unfuckingabsurdiculous statements like this they should have to donate money to the VA for wasting other peoples' time.

Could you possibly come up with anything more ignorant about Gaza? Hey! Maybe you can claim that is where iraq's wmd got sent? Man.....go write yourself up that editorial and submit it to newsmax. Within 16 hours some dumbfuck would be starting a thread proclaiming the wmd have been found.

 

[CMike]

The average every day "Palestinian" only has Hamas to blame for their living conditions. The Pals are being held hostage by Hamas. Not Israel.

Oh, well, considering Israel essentially created Hamas, guess they have Israel to blame as well.

Critical thinking ftw.

 

[Jack Fate]

Erm, not quite. I acknowledged that you provided a single example of something happening but pointed out that you have failed to provide examples of it happening on a large scale. This position of mine has not changed. I've been consistent throughout this discussion.

You make the mistake of assuming that I identify with all "Muslims." I consider the Iranian regime heretical and support the dismantlement of every state in the so-called Muslim world; none of them are truly Islamic and most of them are oppressive.




I've experienced far too much to believe that.

Then work on that goal. If you and other muslims fix Islam then everything will work out. Destroying Israel is not the answer. Living in peace is the answer. To demand Israel be removed is not going to lead anywhere but death. If Islam is truely the "religion of peace" then let's see some peace. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing smoke up our ass.

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Then oppose Iran and Syria. They are the problem.

 

[CurveLight]

Well Im out I have no further interest in conversing with people with such an embarrassing contempt for common recent history.
It is really quite amazing .
Thanks, I had no idea such people existed.

Then work on that goal. If you and other muslims fix Islam then everything will work out. Destroying Israel is not the answer. Living in peace is the answer. To demand Israel be removed is not going to lead anywhere but death. If Islam is truely the "religion of peace" then let's see some peace. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing smoke up our ass.

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Then oppose Iran and Syria. They are the problem.

Saudi Arabia is the most anti-Semitic nation in the world........when was the last time any of you ignorant fucks contacted your Fed Reps to demand withdrawing our alliance with them until they stop funding terrorists and teaching anti-semitism to children in State schools?

 

[Liability]

It is amazing how the woefully ignorant propagandists like PFT are so willing to claim that the act of boarding a ship is "piracy" in this case.

In this case, to be blunt, it simply is not piracy.

It is also not illegal.

The law of the sea nad international law both recognize that states engaged ion hostilities have the common law right to engage in such behavior circumscribed only by the related rules of war and international law.

For example, here's one very decent, fairly objective and nicely informative article touching on the topic.

Israel’s naval blockade pitches and rolls with the Law of the Sea - The Globe and Mail

 

[Liability]

One doesn't "fix" Islam; Islam has never changed and never will. Its self-proclaimed followers simply need to return to it. Israel's very existence is inimical to peace and justice in the region, so force may be the only answer if peaceful dismantlement is not a possibility. This extends to all governments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace is practiced with those who are peaceful, not with the belligerent and oppressive, who will be opposed with force until they're removed from power.

Wrong. What every Muslim needs is psychiatric help. To break away from the random violent psychotic ramblings of the insane pedophile Mohammad (curse his foul odious disgusting depraved name and memory and may the one true God, whose name is certainly NOT "Allah," shit on Mohammad), these poor afflicted blighted souls need to be able to see just how fucked up that bullshit "religion" actually is. The further they get away from that evil crap known as "Islam," the better off they and the world will be.

I apologize for apparently giving you the impression that I'm interested in your uneducated opinion about my religion.

You seem to be acting upon the misapprehension that I am concerned with your interest of lack of interest in my completely valid and accurate assessment of your filthy, diseased and vile religion.

 

[Liability]

The average every day "Palestinian" only has Hamas to blame for their living conditions. The Pals are being held hostage by Hamas. Not Israel.

Oh, well, considering Israel essentially created Hamas, guess they have Israel to blame as well.

* * * *

That dishonest contention has already been exposed as baseless propaganda.

The creation of Hamas was by certain Palis for Palis and it was, at most, tolerated or even exploited to some extent by Israel. That behavior by Israel is not even remotely the same as "creating" Hamas.

 

[Nik]

It is amazing how the woefully ignorant propagandists like PFT are so willing to claim that the act of boarding a ship is "piracy" in this case.

In this case, to be blunt, it simply is not piracy.

It is also not illegal.

The law of the sea nad international law both recognize that states engaged ion hostilities have the common law right to engage in such behavior circumscribed only by the related rules of war and international law.

For example, here's one very decent, fairly objective and nicely informative article touching on the topic.

Israel’s naval blockade pitches and rolls with the Law of the Sea - The Globe and Mail

Common Law does not exist under international law.

You are right that it is not piracy, but incorrect about its legality. Notice the article does not touch upon the legality of the blockade itself, something necessary for the enforcement of the blockade to be the case.

 

[Liability]

It is amazing how the woefully ignorant propagandists like PFT are so willing to claim that the act of boarding a ship is "piracy" in this case.

In this case, to be blunt, it simply is not piracy.

It is also not illegal.

The law of the sea and international law both recognize that states engaged in hostilities have the common law right to engage in such behavior circumscribed only by the related rules of war and international law.

For example, here's one very decent, fairly objective and nicely informative article touching on the topic.

Israel’s naval blockade pitches and rolls with the Law of the Sea - The Globe and Mail

Common Law does not exist under international law.

You are right that it is not piracy, but incorrect about its legality. Notice the article does not touch upon the legality of the blockade itself, something necessary for the enforcement of the blockade to be the case.

Wrong. Common law (in international law this is "customary law") is one of the biggest components OF international law.

If you wish now to assert that there is something fundamentally wrong, legally, with the establishment of the blockade, that would be interesting. I'd love to see you actually support that one.

 

[Nik]

It is amazing how the woefully ignorant propagandists like PFT are so willing to claim that the act of boarding a ship is "piracy" in this case.

In this case, to be blunt, it simply is not piracy.

It is also not illegal.

The law of the sea nad international law both recognize that states engaged ion hostilities have the common law right to engage in such behavior circumscribed only by the related rules of war and international law.

For example, here's one very decent, fairly objective and nicely informative article touching on the topic.

Israel’s naval blockade pitches and rolls with the Law of the Sea - The Globe and Mail

Common Law does not exist under international law.

You are right that it is not piracy, but incorrect about its legality. Notice the article does not touch upon the legality of the blockade itself, something necessary for the enforcement of the blockade to be the case.

Wrong. Common law is one of the biggest components OF international law.

If you wish now to assert that there is something fundamentally wrong, legally, with the establishment of the blockade, that would be interesting. I'd love to see you actually support that one.

No, its not. Common law would require a formal adherence to precedent which is not the case in international law.

You may be thinking of customary law which is similar but not the same.

As for the legality, it is clear that a blockade for collective action against a civilian population is illegal. And considering Israel blocks numerous items which have only civilian uses, it is quite hard to argue that the blockade is purely military in nature.

 

[Nik]

Common Law: A system of law that is derived from judges' decisions (which arise from the judicial branch of government), rather than statutes or constitutions (which are derived from the legislative branch of government).

From Definition: Common Law

Customary Law: Unlike treaty law, customary international law is not written. To prove that a certain rule is customary one has to show that it is reflected in state practice and that there exists a conviction in the international community that such practice is required as a matter of law. In this context, "practice" relates to official state practice and therefore includes formal statements by states. A contrary practice by some states is possible because if this contrary practice is condemned by other states or denied by the government itself the original rule is actually confirmed.

Customary international humanitarian law

They are not the same.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is amazing how the woefully ignorant propagandists like PFT are so willing to claim that the act of boarding a ship is "piracy" in this case.

In this case, to be blunt, it simply is not piracy.

It is also not illegal.

The law of the sea and international law both recognize that states engaged in hostilities have the common law right to engage in such behavior circumscribed only by the related rules of war and international law.

For example, here's one very decent, fairly objective and nicely informative article touching on the topic.

Israel’s naval blockade pitches and rolls with the Law of the Sea - The Globe and Mail

Common Law does not exist under international law.

You are right that it is not piracy, but incorrect about its legality. Notice the article does not touch upon the legality of the blockade itself, something necessary for the enforcement of the blockade to be the case.

Wrong. Common law (in international law this is "customary law") is one of the biggest components OF international law.

If you wish now to assert that there is something fundamentally wrong, legally, with the establishment of the blockade, that would be interesting. I'd love to see you actually support that one.

Since Israel does not give a rat's behind about law, I will not argue that point. That point is moot. The Free Gaza movement has been advised by their legal experts that what they are doing is perfectly legal. Again, a moot point.

The court Free Gaza is working in is the court of world opinion and they seem to be doing a good job. A few years ago they were one boat and a handful of activists. Look at it now. And there are two more boats almost to Gaza now along with a couple more flotillas in the pipeline. Palestine is gaining and Israel is losing in the world of public opinion. Sooner or later the governments will follow.

 

[CurveLight]

Common Law does not exist under international law.

You are right that it is not piracy, but incorrect about its legality. Notice the article does not touch upon the legality of the blockade itself, something necessary for the enforcement of the blockade to be the case.

Wrong. Common law (in international law this is "customary law") is one of the biggest components OF international law.

If you wish now to assert that there is something fundamentally wrong, legally, with the establishment of the blockade, that would be interesting. I'd love to see you actually support that one.

Since Israel does not give a rat's behind about law, I will not argue that point. That point is moot. The Free Gaza movement has been advised by their legal experts that what they are doing is perfectly legal. Again, a moot point.

The court Free Gaza is working in is the court of world opinion and they seem to be doing a good job. A few years ago they were one boat and a handful of activists. Look at it now. And there are two more boats almost to Gaza now along with a couple more flotillas in the pipeline. Palestine is gaining and Israel is losing in the world of public opinion. Sooner or later the governments will follow.

Israel is taking a page out of the bush admin's legal dance. Israel declared an Armed Conflict against Gaza to justify the blockade. However, doing so also opened the door for the Geneva Convention.....but at the same time Israel wants to say they aren't "really" at War to attempt a side step....much like Gitmo detainees. Here's a good application using a different set of beligerents:
Crimes Of War Project > The Book

Israel is really trying to kill as many civilians as possible with the blockade in hopes of engendering an internal volcano then take advantage of the implosion. This is almost exactly the same....strike that. This is exactly what the US did with Iraq. We made sure the UN sanctions remained in place so the average population would suffer like a mother fucker then we unilaterally created No Fly Zones to justify bombing iraq which needlessly killed more people.