16% of Americans do not believe in Climate Change.

[Saigon]

SSDD -

Let's try sticking to facts.

The government of the UK is led by the CONSERVATIVE party. The Prime Minister is a CONSERVATIVE.

This is not debatable, not controversial, not disputed by anyone at all. A thousand reputable sources will all tell you the same thing.

Your own confusion over political terminology is not the issue here.

Do try and post with just a little common sense, SSDD. You claim to be all about facts and science, and yet here you are claiming the world operates according to your own distorted view of countries you have never been to and words you do not understand.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD -

Let's try sticking to facts.

The government of the UK is led by the CONSERVATIVE party. The Prime Minister is a CONSERVATIVE.

Conservative compared to what?....those further to the left on the socialist scale? Collectivists by definition are not conservative. Certainly one collectivist can be more conservative than another collectivist, but neither is, by definition, conservative.

 

[Saigon]

SSDD -

This topic is simply over your head.

Again, this is not opinion, it is not disputed, it is not debatable. It is fact.

 

[gslack]

Saigon- Quit being a punk. Either man up and quote people, and respond to them fairly, or simply talk to yourself. But the constant belidgerance, all the while condemning the same from others, is not only old, but childish..

Dude, not too long ago, you made a thread, whose only purpose was to tell people how the environmental forum should be run. WHo should get to post what, and what should or should not be allowed. And even more recently you started a thread, and then set about telling everyone who disagreed with your assertions, that they were off-topic, or insulting them..

Add in your abuse of the rep system, and your constant whinning about everybody, and you can see why you are the forum crybaby..

Grow up junior...

 

[bripat9643]

SSDD -

Let's try sticking to facts.

The government of the UK is led by the CONSERVATIVE party. The Prime Minister is a CONSERVATIVE.

This is not debatable, not controversial, not disputed by anyone at all. A thousand reputable sources will all tell you the same thing.

Your own confusion over political terminology is not the issue here.

Do try and post with just a little common sense, SSDD. You claim to be all about facts and science, and yet here you are claiming the world operates according to your own distorted view of countries you have never been to and words you do not understand.

UK conservatives are about as right-wing as Harry Reid and Nazi Pelosi.

 

[Boss]

"The UK is a conservative country!"

 

[Boss]

UK conservatives are about as right-wing as Harry Reid and Nazi Pelosi.

Harry could probably be a Conservative Party member in the UK!

 

[Boss]

Fuck, you are really a dense little twit, aren't you? No one in their right mind, with any knowledge and understanding of the atmosphere and how it works, is arguing there isn't a greenhouse effect. Without the greenhouse effect, we would all DIE!

Actually, when the fur stops flying and the science really is settled, it will be found that the greehhouse effect as described by climate science is a failed hypothesis. Search Nikolov and Zeller for a realistic explanation for why the earth is the temperature it is without the need for magic gasses that defy the laws of physics.

The effect is called the atmospheric thermal effect and is explained entirely by the ideal gas laws...pressure...volume...temperature plus solar input and it works with every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere as opposed to the greenhouse hypothesis which only works here because it was made up to work here and never tested with other planets.

Agreed, but in a simplistic understanding, the atmosphere does work essentially like a greenhouse, and this is a GOOD thing. You can call it something else, I won't dispute your argument, it is correct, but this 'effect' is not detrimental, it is essential. We have morons running around screaming with their hair on fire about "the greenhouse effect" but without this, nothing could survive on the planet. They emotively and breathlessly rant about "the greenhouse gases" as if these are 'deadly pollutants' man is pumping into the atmosphere to slowly kill the planet... the main "greenhouse gas" is water vapor, far exceeding any other 'gas' in the atmosphere.

 

[skookerasbil]

nobody cares about this climate change crap...........and the k00ks think people are sitting around the dinner table shitting their pants every night. fAiL

Damn near split my sides laughing when I saw this report today...........


OFA Gets Zero Attendance for Climate Change Rally | Washington Free Beacon

 

[Abraham3]

Fuck, you are really a dense little twit, aren't you?

I can't tell you how much it means to get that sort of comment from you. I really, really can't.

No one in their right mind, with any knowledge and understanding of the atmosphere and how it works, is arguing there isn't a greenhouse effect.

SSDD just told us that the Greenhouse Effect would require that the different planets have different physics. That sounds like a rejection to me. Are you suggesting that SSDD and WestWall have no knowledge or understanding of the atmosphere and how it works?

Without the greenhouse effect, we would all DIE! Do you not comprehend that? Your "argument" is not that there IS a greenhouse effect. Your "argument" is that man's contribution of CO2, is causing an amplification of the effect, resulting in global warming.

That is my position. That is also the position of 97% of the world's climate scientists. Radical, eh?

To a very small degree, you may be correct, but the results are so insignificant, it doesn't warrant concern. We may have increased the median global temperature by 1 degree in a century, if you attribute ALL the warming to man. This is completely insignificant, and will not cause catastrophic results. Even if every theory you've presented is true and valid, the results are not worth noting in comparison to what industrialization has done for mankind.

You say I may be right "to a very small degree", then concede to every facet of AGW I'd think of proposing. If you accept that human GHG emissions have raised the Earth's temperature roughly 1C over the last century or so, you've bought the whole kit and caboodle. You are forced to accept that it will continue to rise as humans continue to add GHGs to the atmosphere and those GHGs continue to accumulate thermal energy.

This whole entire AGW nonsense is a liberal socialists ploy to extort money from large corporations.

I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense.

This is why you have virtually NO viable "solution" to the problem, and yammer on and on about a "carbon offset" which is nothing but a shake down.

Pretend for a second that AGW is valid and tell us what viable solution presents itself to your non-extorting, non-greedy, non-yammmering mind.

All you are after, is the profits and money from rich greedy
corporations, but you can't be honest about that.

By what route would money from those rich greedy corporations reach my wee little pocket? I'd really like to know. I'm not that well off and I've got bills.

You have to generate fear and alarmism, over a made up "crisis" that doesn't exist. It's been rebuked, and it's been rebutted, but you people just keep right on marching! You all need to be roundly dismissed for the frauds and fakes you are, and called out on your stupidity every time you open your traps.

You can keep the rebukes. No one cares. But rebuttals might make us wonder - had we actually seen any. You've already conceded to everything mainstream climate science currently claims: human GHG emissions have raised global temperatures about 1C. That you don't think that significant or a threat is just the product of some intellectual misprision.

************************************************************************

If all that CO2 came from the oceans, why does it have the isotopic signature of fossil fuels?
What happened to all the CO2 that humans DID produce burning fossil fuels?

What you should do is shut the fuck up.

Oh my GOD! You are just precious! I couldn't dream up a better debating opponent if I tried.

All you have done is spew science like you know what the hell you're talking about.

Well, in this case, all I've "spewed" are two simple, fundamental questions. If you're having trouble answering them, perhaps you need to figure out why. As to whether or not I know what I'm talking about, I think a quick scoring of who is correcting whose mistakes might tell the tale.

The isotopic signature of every CO2 molecule has not been examined and found to be the result of man burning fossil fuel, idiot.

I really hope you weren't under the impression that was necessary. You've never taken a class in statistics or probability, have you. Why don't you look up "SAMPLING" and see what it tells you that you might apply here.

Why don't YOU answer your own question Mr. Science? What has happened to the tons and tons of CO2 man has produced through industrialization, it's obviously not still floating around in the atmosphere, or we'd all be dead.

It is present in the mix of the atmosphere, in oceanic solution and precipitate and incorporated into organic and inorganic solids. The proportion of CO2 in all sinks has increased. CO2 is constantly being emitted and absorbed by all these different domains. After all, the CO2 and other GHGs we emit were originally incorporated into petroleum and coal. We didn't mine it from the asteroids. And if it had been left there, it wouldn't hurt us one bit. But we burned great honking wads of the stuff which moved it from the earth to the air and allowed it to work its wee Greenhouse Magic.

Nor is the tons and tons of sulfur dioxide and volcanic ash produced by thousands of volcanoes over the years. What happens to it all? Do you believe every element and compound released into the atmosphere just stays there for all of eternity? Matter never changes?

Now I KNOW you're too smart to believe that volcanoes produce more GHGs then humans. But, as to your question: No, it doesn't stay there for all eternity. But are you under the impression that NONE of it stays in the atmosphere?

Lots of things happen to carbon dioxide molecules in the atmosphere, most of them are absorbed by plant life and the ocean, and yes... some dissipate into space, as you earlier laughed about, carried away by the solar winds, never to be seen or heard from again.

Regarding your dissipation into space: Gas molecules do leave the planet now and then, but CO2 has no special propensity to abandon molecules to the solar wind. Every other gas also leaves now and then. The process will have NO effect on the proportions of the various gases in the Earth's atmosphere. The level of CO2 in the atmosphere is not - as you suggested - controlled by dissipation to space.

The proportion of CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere has risen from 280 ppm to 400 ppm. 120 ppm of it bears the isotopic signature of fossil fuels. The excess CO2 is anthropogenic, period.

For every million parts of atmosphere we have, three-hundred to four-hundred are carbon dioxide.

We actually have between 390 and 400 ppm.

This is not a big deal

That depends on your frame of reference. It means nothing to, say, a cow or a lizard, but it could mean everything to a plant and I'm led to understand that it means a fair bit to the world's climate scientists and those who take the radical position that the experts on our climate are the folks most likely to be correct.

there have been times on the planet where we've had MORE carbon dioxide in our atmosphere.

Not in AT LEAST the last 800,000 years and very likely at no time since homo climbed down out of the trees.

Earth had endured much warmer and colder climates, and the ecosystem didn't collapse, the icecaps didn't all melt away, the convection currents in the ocean didn't cease to function, the polar bears survived.

The Earth has endured all manner of changes. Modern human culture has not. And you said you like to read: why don't you read what happened to life on this planet during the major ice ages. There were massive die-offs. Extinctions. On occasions the icecaps DID all melt away and the major ocean currents have undergone major changes. And that is with climatic change taking place at a tiny fraction of the current rate of change. The Earth's climate cycles have not been benign - the universe could care less about life. But very little of that is pertinent. The human culture and our infrastructure has never before existed. At no time in the human history - and likely at any time since the KT Boundary Event, have hydrocarbons been burned at the rate at which we have burned them. What we are looking forward to is novel and unique. If looking backwards makes you feel better it's only because you're not looking at what's coming at you from the other direction.

Your whole shtick is talking down to people and trying to sound intelligent, but you are an abject idiot, who is promoting a sham and a lie.

I'd love to keep at this, but I'm starting to feel... soiled. No, just kidding. Look, I'm perfectly willing to teach you a little science, a little physics. But you need to be willing to learn and I'd appreciate it a great deal if you stopped calling me an idiot and a liar. I've got a tendency to take those personal. Y'know?

 

[SSDD]

The Earth has endured all manner of changes. Modern human culture has not.

Of course it has. There have been a number of warmer periods than the present in human history and all are associated with the growth of human culture. There have also been colder times than the present and all have been associated with very hard times. Even today human culture exists in the full range of climates the earth has to offer from poles to equator. The ability to adapt and prosper in any climate is what makes us the apex predator on this rock.

 

[Abraham3]

Fuck, you are really a dense little twit, aren't you? No one in their right mind, with any knowledge and understanding of the atmosphere and how it works, is arguing there isn't a greenhouse effect. Without the greenhouse effect, we would all DIE!

Actually, when the fur stops flying and the science really is settled, it will be found that the greehhouse effect as described by climate science is a failed hypothesis. Search Nikolov and Zeller for a realistic explanation for why the earth is the temperature it is without the need for magic gasses that defy the laws of physics.

The effect is called the atmospheric thermal effect and is explained entirely by the ideal gas laws...pressure...volume...temperature plus solar input and it works with every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere as opposed to the greenhouse hypothesis which only works here because it was made up to work here and never tested with other planets.

So, I guess we CAN assume that Boss considers SSDD to have no knowledge or understanding of the atmosphere. Dissension in the ranks. Ooooo....

 

[westwall]

Fuck, you are really a dense little twit, aren't you? No one in their right mind, with any knowledge and understanding of the atmosphere and how it works, is arguing there isn't a greenhouse effect. Without the greenhouse effect, we would all DIE!

Actually, when the fur stops flying and the science really is settled, it will be found that the greehhouse effect as described by climate science is a failed hypothesis. Search Nikolov and Zeller for a realistic explanation for why the earth is the temperature it is without the need for magic gasses that defy the laws of physics.

The effect is called the atmospheric thermal effect and is explained entirely by the ideal gas laws...pressure...volume...temperature plus solar input and it works with every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere as opposed to the greenhouse hypothesis which only works here because it was made up to work here and never tested with other planets.

So, I guess we CAN assume that Boss considers SSDD to have no knowledge or understanding of the atmosphere. Dissension in the ranks. Ooooo....

That assumption certainly applies to you and the rest of you propagandists.

 

[Abraham3]

The Earth has endured all manner of changes. Modern human culture has not.

Of course it has. There have been a number of warmer periods than the present in human history and all are associated with the growth of human culture. There have also been colder times than the present and all have been associated with very hard times. Even today human culture exists in the full range of climates the earth has to offer from poles to equator. The ability to adapt and prosper in any climate is what makes us the apex predator on this rock.

CO2 levels and temperatures have never in human history altered as quickly as they are altering now. And as you well know, the rate is going to increase exponentially.

 

[Abraham3]

Actually, when the fur stops flying and the science really is settled, it will be found that the greehhouse effect as described by climate science is a failed hypothesis. Search Nikolov and Zeller for a realistic explanation for why the earth is the temperature it is without the need for magic gasses that defy the laws of physics.

The effect is called the atmospheric thermal effect and is explained entirely by the ideal gas laws...pressure...volume...temperature plus solar input and it works with every planet in the solar system with an atmosphere as opposed to the greenhouse hypothesis which only works here because it was made up to work here and never tested with other planets.

So, I guess we CAN assume that Boss considers SSDD to have no knowledge or understanding of the atmosphere. Dissension in the ranks. Ooooo....

That assumption certainly applies to you and the rest of you propagandists.

I don't care what YOU think of my knowledge levels. The interesting point is that Boss thinks you and SSDD and GSlack and Toddsterpatriot are all climatic idiots (its one of his favorite words).

 

[Abraham3]

SSDD signature: Oh, the fundamental mechanism of the second law is statistics. - Mamooth

Which I have to assume SSDD believes to be false. In fact, he must believe it is laughable. How surprising, then, to find the following in Wikipedia's discussion of the Second Law:

The second law is an empirically validated postulate of thermodynamics, but it can be understood and explained using the underlying quantum statistical mechanics, together with the assumption of low-entropy initial conditions in the distant past (possibly at the beginning of the universe). In the language of statistical mechanics, entropy is a measure of the number of microscopic configurations corresponding to a macroscopic state.

Emphases mine.

Cool sig.

 

[Abraham3]

Agreed, but in a simplistic understanding, the atmosphere does work essentially like a greenhouse, and this is a GOOD thing. You can call it something else, I won't dispute your argument, it is correct, but this 'effect' is not detrimental, it is essential. We have morons running around screaming with their hair on fire about "the greenhouse effect" but without this, nothing could survive on the planet. They emotively and breathlessly rant about "the greenhouse gases" as if these are 'deadly pollutants' man is pumping into the atmosphere to slowly kill the planet... the main "greenhouse gas" is water vapor, far exceeding any other 'gas' in the atmosphere.

How about a link showing climate scientists "running around screaming" about the greenhouse effect? Eh?

 

[ScienceRocks]

When you can't debate around the science...Just say the science and physics holded up by the entire scientific community is wrong.

What one of you has a PHD in physics?

 

[westwall]

So, I guess we CAN assume that Boss considers SSDD to have no knowledge or understanding of the atmosphere. Dissension in the ranks. Ooooo....

That assumption certainly applies to you and the rest of you propagandists.

I don't care what YOU think of my knowledge levels. The interesting point is that Boss thinks you and SSDD and GSlack and Toddsterpatriot are all climatic idiots (its one of his favorite words).

Ahhhh yes, the typical collectivist propaganda technique, make a statement that is diametrically opposed to that which was said... You and your fellow clones remind me of the Japanese propaganda machine when Halsey's fleet was operating off of the Okinawan coast... Our losses were two cruisers damaged, the Japanese claim was (IIRC) 53 ships sunk with 16 of them being carriers.....

You clowns suffer from the same level of delusion... Makes me feel good!

 

[SSDD]

CO2 levels and temperatures have never in human history altered as quickly as they are altering now. And as you well know, the rate is going to increase exponentially.

I guess you are unaware that atmospheric CO2 concentrations of over 400ppm were recorded in the 1800's. Everything you guys believe is a lie and appears that each and every one of you is to damned stupid to even suspect that you are victims of a hoax.