1981 PATCO Strike

[Robert W]

I already did back it up, what the hell else do you want me to do?

Instead of expecting me to educate you, try educating yourself.

Odanny, were you a pilot in 1980? Why do unions have more rights than pilots have?

 

[Mushroom]

You know, you and facts don't seem to get along very well. For some reason I can't understand, you won't accept them even when someone presents them to you, preferring instead to cry that you are being mistreated.

And you were in the military? Oh man, the military must have changed since I served in it.

And once again, you can not come up with any evidence of how exactly he destroyed the Unions. No matter how many times you are asked to actually back up your claims, all you do is deny and cast around insults.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mushroom]

I already did back it up, what the hell else do you want me to do?

Instead of expecting me to educate you, try educating yourself.

You claimed earlier that Reagan tried to destroy the unions. Even though your own reference showed they had been declining since 1960. And you have yet to say exactly which Unions he destroyed.

You are making unfounded claims, with nothing to back them up then attacking any that dares to believe your claims. Even when your own references show you are wrong.

 

[odanny]

And once again, you can not come up with any evidence of how exactly he destroyed the Unions. No matter how many times you are asked to actually back up your claims, all you do is deny and cast around insults.

Have a nice day.

I will, you do the same.

 

[odanny]

You claimed earlier that Reagan tried to destroy the unions. Even though your own reference showed they had been declining since 1960. And you have yet to say exactly which Unions he destroyed.

No offense, but goddamn you're dumb.

 

[Mushroom]

Here are some other facts about PATCO.

It was originally created as an organization in 1968 claiming to support ATC safety. But the Civil Service Commission in 1969 determined it was not an organization, but a Union. And shortly after that, they staged a three day strike. Then the next day staged a one day sickout. Then threatened to do so again, but the courts outright told them that would be illegal. But the sickouts continued. Until in 1970 the courts once again had to get involved and order them back to work or face termination.

In fact, it might actually help if some in here actually remembered that not only PATCO but the Teamsters and Air Line Pilots Association all endorsed Ronald Reagan in the 1980 election. And the leader of PATCO and Reagan communicated multiple times during the period before the election, promising to do all he could to support them so long as they did not go on strike.

However, in 1981 PATCO demanded a reduction of hours to no more than 32 hours a week, and an increase of at least $10,000 per year. The FAA offered a raise of 11.5% per year for three years (twice as high as any other government employees). But the Union rejected that offer and instead ordered a strike. The FAA was offering a total of over $40 million in raises, PATCO wanted over $600 million in raises.
Even their own legal counsel told the Union that striking would be a death sentence to the Union, as it was in clear violation of the law, in addition to their almost insane demands would lose them any support even among other unions. And it was not only the President that ordered them back to work, A Federal Court did so also as they were in violation of the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947. And after the strike and the striking employees were fired, the Union was dissolved.

And now, there are two Unions that have taken their place. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association, and another organization which claims to be PATCO. But are in reality not connected to each other, and funny how the implosion of the old union actually created two of them. However, in the years since none of them has been so stupid as to break the law and start an illegal strike.

PATCO – FPD

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Now in what kind of world is a demand to cut working hours to no more than 32 hours a week combined with a $10k per year raise in any way realistic? Like many unions, they were trying to exploit their jobs to get unreasonable demands, and it outright backfired. And it was things like that which turned a lot of people against Unions in the 1980s. Not the President, it was simply another case where their demands were unreasonable and most of the people recognized that.

 

[Mushroom]

No offense, but goddamn you're dumb.

And you have yet to explain to us exactly how the rapid decline of Unions between 1960 and 1981 was in any way the fault of President Reagan.

And you still can not in any way actually debate based on actual facts. All you can do is vomit up insults.

So how about it, what in the hell did President Reagan have to do with the declining Union membership for over 21 years from 1960 to 1981? If you are so damned smart, surely you can explain this to us.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Did you bother to read the link I included? Did you read the bolded font I posted? Just start there, it wasn't just this barrage at Ft. Sumpter, it was an administration openly hostile to organized labor. These people were on Reagan's staff for a reason, he picked them and he appointed them.

yea your party told my union almost yearly how we may be next....what a bunch of fear mongering....

 

[odanny]

In fact, it might actually help if some in here actually remembered that not only PATCO but the Teamsters and Air Line Pilots Association all endorsed Ronald Reagan in the 1980 election. And the leader of PATCO and Reagan communicated multiple times during the period before the election, promising to do all he could to support them so long as they did not go on strike.

Are you seriously suggesting that because ATC's at the start of Reagan's first term supported him that he was somehow favorable over his 8 years in office to unions?

Surely you wouldn't be suggesting that, would you?





REAGAN: I've seen America from the stadium press box as a sportscaster, as an actor, officer of my labor union.

MALONE: That's right - Ronald Reagan, union man. In fact, Reagan had been the president of the Screen Actors Guild. Full disclosure - basically everyone at PLANET MONEY is also a member of SAG. No, we don't act. It's complicated. Don't worry about it. Anyway, as Ronald Reagan, the presidential candidate, went looking around for endorsements, he found the air traffic controllers. Here was a mostly white, mostly male, more conservative union with lots of veterans. This was very much Reagan's demographic. So Reagan sent the air traffic controllers' union a letter, essentially saying, look; if you endorse me, I'm going to be on your side. Pretty much everyone in the union, aka PATCO, was excited about this letter, including Ron Palmer.

SIMON: People in PATCO were very, like, rah, rah, Reagan, Reagan


PALMER: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I voted for him, yeah.

 

[Mushroom]

Are you seriously suggesting that because ATC's at the start of Reagan's first term supported him that he was somehow favorable over his 8 years in office to unions?

And you still have yet to name what other Unions he destroyed. And how he was responsible for the sharp decline in Unions in the over two decades before he took office.

You are just spinning in circles, and it is actually rather funny. Care to actually back up your claims in some way, and not just spin around repeatedly?

And once again, the leadership of PATCO was already violating the law, and were wanted for being in contempt of court for ordering the illegal strike. Care to discuss that?

 

[Robert W]

And once again, you can not come up with any evidence of how exactly he destroyed the Unions. No matter how many times you are asked to actually back up your claims, all you do is deny and cast around insults.

Have a nice day.

Democrats are always pure authoritarians. They do not have conversations, no, they hurl insults. It is their trademark.

 

[Mushroom]

Democrats are always pure authoritarians. They do not have conversations, no, they hurl insults. It is their trademark.

To be honest, I find that at the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum.

Then they wonder why they drive actual moderates like me to stand against them. I simply never understood antagonism against anybody that does not share their views.

 

[Robert W]

To be honest, I find that at the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum.

Then they wonder why they drive actual moderates like me to stand against them. I simply never understood antagonism against anybody that does not share their views.

IT is rare for republicans to insult Democrats.

 

[Harry Dresden]

IT is rare for republicans to insult Democrats.

lol....do actually read the threads around here?....

 

[AZrailwhale]

yea your party told my union almost yearly how we may be next....what a bunch of fear mongering....

Yeah, fear mongering that resulted in a lot of union political contributions to democrats,

 

[Mushroom]

lol....do actually read the threads around here?....

I was thinking the exact same thing. I see it all the damned time.

Of course, I also generally avoid any political threads like they were the plague.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yeah, fear mongering that resulted in a lot of union political contributions to democrats,

well then it worked....but it was still nothing but fear mongering....

 

[Robert W]

Yeah, fear mongering that resulted in a lot of union political contributions to democrats,

People must understand that PATCO represents Government workers. They can halt air travel by striking.

 

[odanny]

And you still have yet to name what other Unions he destroyed. And how he was responsible for the sharp decline in Unions in the over two decades before he took office.

You are just spinning in circles, and it is actually rather funny. Care to actually back up your claims in some way, and not just spin around repeatedly?

And once again, the leadership of PATCO was already violating the law, and were wanted for being in contempt of court for ordering the illegal strike. Care to discuss that?

I hate to say this, but I have to be honest with you: I think you're hopeless.

It matters not what evidence I contnue to provide, you either don't read it or can't understand it, more than likely both.

I did try, though.

 

[AZrailwhale]

People must understand that PATCO represents Government workers. They can halt air travel by striking.

That’s why there was a no strike clause in their employment contracts.