2/3 of Americans-Afghanistan Not Worth Fighting

[bendog]

Like most people I have not been following afghanistan closely for a long time

too many other more urgent issues to take my attention

so I was pretty much onboard with getting out

but I was wrong

“End the 20 year war” sounds good

but there has not been a war in afghanistan for 5 or 6 years

what we had was an occupation

there has not been a US combat death for at least a year

and our position there was good and beneficial to US interests

If the Taliban don't let Afghan be a terrorist staging area again, then our young men (and women) were not killed and maimed in vain. But no one is saying that in govt. It's like .... we don't wanna talk about it.

But W seemed to think the public would fund with lives and money a 50-100 year occupation. That was crazy. Of course he followed that up with invading Iraq, so there ya go. Afghan is not W. Europe, Japan or even Korea. It was just never going to happen. And the Taliban pretty much stopped killing Americans because they knew that if they did that, the US Military would want to keep killing them back.

 

[bendog]

The Taliban most definitely did NOT shelter al Qaeda willingly. It was the CIA that forced the Mujahedeen to grudgingly accept al Qaeda.
And the Taliban arrested bin Laden many times, offering him for extradition several times.
It was the US who refused to follow standard international extradition procedures.
Meaning that we either has no evidence, or were not willing to make it public for some reason.

Big difference. The Barbary Pirates were attacking US ships and personnel, the Taliban were totally innocent.

They were not innocent. They were told give up OBL and any AQ or face the consequence. And pretty much every one of them is now dead.

 

[Rigby5]

Like most people I have not been following afghanistan closely for a long time

too many other more urgent issues to take my attention

so I was pretty much onboard with getting out

but I was wrong

“End the 20 year war” sounds good

but there has not been a war in afghanistan for 5 or 6 years

what we had was an occupation

there has not been a US combat death for at least a year

and our position there was good and beneficial to US interests

No our presence there was not good for the US or Afghanistan.
It costs 10 times as much to support US troops overseas than it does in the US.
Having the Taliban out of power meant increased heroin shipments to the US, as well as increased murders, rapes, and kidnappings.
Our presence there showed us as traitors and hypocrites since the Taliban were our allies when we wanted to harm Soviets, and we turned on them.
We were traitors and reneged on our agreements with the Taliban and the whole Mujahedeen they were part of.
No one benefitted from a US presence in Afghanistan except for US weapons makers.

 

[Rigby5]

Yeah, but we should have evacuated all non-essential govt employed civilians weeks if not months ago. I don't see how anyone can conclude that Biden and/or the Military failed to plan for an orderly evacuation.

We should never have ever put any gov employees there.
It was always illegal.
US laws says foreign use of force can only go through the UN.

 

[22lcidw]

Afghanistan War Unpopular Amid Chaotic Pullout: Poll

Roughly two-thirds said they did not think America’s longest war was worth fighting, the poll shows.

www.huffpost.com

Despite the Republican whining and piling on...America does not approve of the "forever war" in Afghanistan

There was and never is...a "good way" to disengage from something as fucked up as that

You, in your heart are a Trumpist! And there was a way to get the civilians out. Perhaps this is another Progaganda set up. We will need hundreds of thousands if not millions of Afghanistan refugees as potential Prog voters here.

 

[bendog]

No our presence there was not good for the US or Afghanistan.
It costs 10 times as much to support US troops overseas than it does in the US.
Having the Taliban out of power meant increased heroin shipments to the US, as well as increased murders, rapes, and kidnappings.
Our presence there showed us as traitors and hypocrites since the Taliban were our allies when we wanted to harm Soviets, and we turned on them.
We were traitors and reneged on our agreements with the Taliban and the whole Mujahedeen they were part of.
No one benefitted from a US presence in Afghanistan except for US weapons makers.

I agree pretty much totally, so long as the Taliban knew that the primary condition of stopping the predator drone strikes was .... no more terror attacks on us.

 

[bendog]

We should never have ever put any gov employees there.
It was always illegal.
US laws says foreign use of force can only go through the UN.

all countries have the right to act w/o UN approval if they are attacked, and we were. As I recall we did not go through the UN. We also can intervene in a genocide.

 

[Rigby5]

If the Taliban don't let Afghan be a terrorist staging area again, then our young men (and women) were not killed and maimed in vain. But no one is saying that in govt. It's like .... we don't wanna talk about it.

But W seemed to think the public would fund with lives and money a 50-100 year occupation. That was crazy. Of course he followed that up with invading Iraq, so there ya go. Afghan is not W. Europe, Japan or even Korea. It was just never going to happen. And the Taliban pretty much stopped killing Americans because they knew that if they did that, the US Military would want to keep killing them back.

NEVER did the Taliban ever allow Afghanistan be used for terrorist staging area.
None of the WTC or Pentagon hijackers ever went to Afghanistan.

The Taliban only killed in legal self defense.
We were the illegal aggressors, both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
People in the Pentagon need to be charged with murder.
In fact, everyone in the Pentagon knew they were murdering innocent Afghans, Iraqis, and US citizens.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

No our presence there was not good for the US or Afghanistan.
It costs 10 times as much to support US troops overseas than it does in the US.
Having the Taliban out of power meant increased heroin shipments to the US, as well as increased murders, rapes, and kidnappings.
Our presence there showed us as traitors and hypocrites since the Taliban were our allies when we wanted to harm Soviets, and we turned on them.
We were traitors and reneged on our agreements with the Taliban and the whole Mujahedeen they were part of.
No one benefitted from a US presence in Afghanistan except for US weapons makers.

Might want to ask the women and children.... fcking retard

 

[kaz]

NEVER did the Taliban ever allow Afghanistan be used for terrorist staging area.
None of the WTC or Pentagon hijackers ever went to Afghanistan.

The Taliban only killed in legal self defense.
We were the illegal aggressors, both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
People in the Pentagon need to be charged with murder.
In fact, everyone in the Pentagon knew they were murdering innocent Afghans, Iraqis, and US citizens.

The Taliban gave Al Qaeda a base of operations to attack us, you stupid, amoral America hating fuck

 

[Rigby5]

They were not innocent. They were told give up OBL and any AQ or face the consequence. And pretty much every one of them is now dead.

Afghan law does no allowed extradition to any but an Islamic courts.
So the Taliban were not allowed by law to give bin Laden over to the US, but they were willing to send him to Saudi Arabia for example.
It was the US who refused, NOT the Taliban.
The Taliban violated no law, the US did violate US and international law.
The Taliban were totally and completely innocent.

Why the US refused to have bin Laden extradited to Saudi Arabia is unclear?
It could be the US did not want bin Laden to get arrested because he might reveal things the US did not want to get out, like maybe the whole 9/11 attack was planned by the CIA?

 

[Rigby5]

I agree pretty much totally, so long as the Taliban knew that the primary condition of stopping the predator drone strikes was .... no more terror attacks on us.

The Taliban never participated in, knew of, or allowed any attacks on the US, ever.

 

[kaz]

The Taliban never participated in, knew of, or allowed any attacks on the US, ever.

You made that up since you don't know what they knew.

But providing a base of operations to prepare for the attack was participating in it, liar

 

[Rigby5]

all countries have the right to act w/o UN approval if they are attacked, and we were. As I recall we did not go through the UN. We also can intervene in a genocide.

Yes you can defend if attacked, but Afghanistan and Iraq never attacked the US, so then any action had to go through the UN.
Afghanistan and Iraq had rights and we violated those rights.
I do not remember any specific exemption for genocide, but it sounds reasonable since preventing genocide would be defensive.

 

[Mac1958]

There is getting out and there is running away and leaving people and equipment behind...why can't you idiots see that?....there are MISSING AMERICANS for crying out loud....

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Calm down.

 

[MarcATL]

Afghanistan War Unpopular Amid Chaotic Pullout: Poll

Roughly two-thirds said they did not think America’s longest war was worth fighting, the poll shows.

www.huffpost.com

Despite the Republican whining and piling on...America does not approve of the "forever war" in Afghanistan

There was and never is...a "good way" to disengage from something as fucked up as that

I don't think they're really whining.

They are sick and tired of it too, it's just reflexive objection b/c it's done by a Democrat.

I gave the USMB righties credit for it here:

A Rare Credit to the USMB Republicans, Conservatives and Other Assorted Rightwingers

I have to give credit where it's due. I'm shocked, but proud to see so many rightwingers of USMB agreeing w/Biden's move. Yes, the fallout is messy, but that can be resolved. I've observed many, if not most of you, basically agreeing w/the end to this 20-year nonsensical war. Some of you...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Rigby5]

Might want to ask the women and children.... fcking retard

The majority of the women and children supported the Taliban.
The reason they were so strict was to stop the murders, kidnappings, rapes, etc., after 30 years without police or government.
The majority understood and approved.

 

[kaz]

Yes you can defend if attacked, but Afghanistan and Iraq never attacked the US, so then any action had to go through the UN.
Afghanistan and Iraq had rights and we violated those rights.
I do not remember any specific exemption for genocide, but it sounds reasonable since preventing genocide would be defensive.

Only you think that supporting Al Qaeda attacking us isn't attacking us, bull shit man

 

[Rigby5]

The Taliban gave Al Qaeda a base of operations to attack us, you stupid, amoral America hating fuck

Wrong.
The CIA demanded that the Mujahedeen give al Qaeda a base of operations against the desired of the Taliban.
You are totally ignorant of the fact it was the CIA who created the Mujahedeen in order to attack the Soviets.
Pashtun dislike and distrust Arab.
The Taliban never wanted them there.
The presence of Saudis was a condition the CIA demanded for US aid and weapons.

 

[Mac-7]

Afghan is not W. Europe, Japan or even Korea. It was just never going to happen.

Afghanistan borders 3 potential enemies that we might be forced to go to war with

Iran, pakistan and red china

we were already set up with a base of operations for air and ground operations

I didnt know this till recently but there are vast deposits of rare earth minerals that are necessary for many vital technologies

now that asset will fall into the hands of china

and there was no war

not one GI was killed last year