4 year old exercises his second amendment rights

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

 

[Brain357]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

 

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

 

[Brain357]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Many are probably homicides with no witnesses.

 

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Like you have been told before, more times than not, homicide is not necessary to scare off an intruder.

 

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Many are probably homicides with no witnesses.

Are you trying to convince people that the only time there was a self defense with a gun is when the criminal was actually shot and killed? Really??? Well this is great because people are not as stupid as you seem to think and are going to see through your dishonesty.

 

[Brain357]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Many are probably homicides with no witnesses.

Are you trying to convince people that the only time there was a self defense with a gun is when the criminal was actually shot and killed? Really??? Well this is great because people are not as stupid as you seem to think and are going to see through your dishonesty.

No. You posted a claim there are 1500-2800 justifiable homicides. I posted a link to the FBI proving there are less than 300. Your source is obviously dramatically wrong. Your facts aren't facts at all.

 

[2aguy]

Yes...we have laws for that already. If you commit a crime with a gun...showing you are irresponsible, you can be arrested and your Right to own a gun can be stripped.....

Yes...we have laws for that already. If you commit a crime with a gun...showing you are irresponsible, you can be arrested and your Right to own a gun can be stripped....

If a person has been convicted of a violent crime should he/she be permitted to buy to be in possession of a gun?

A violent crime, no....and for non violent felonies he should have to wait a period of years before he can own and carry a gun again.

But...we already have laws that enforce that....if you are a felon and you are caught owning a gun or carrying a gun you can already be arrested under existing law.....

A violent crime, no....and for non violent felonies he should have to wait a period of years before he can own and carry a gun again.

What?

But...we already have laws that enforce that....if you are a felon and you are caught owning a gun or carrying a gun you can already be arrested under existing law.....

We sure do, and to catch these folks we need to do background checks.

They are not caught with background checks...they are caught committing actual crimes and then arrested. The background check has nothing to do with it...nice lie though.

Felons use people with clean records to buy their guns or they steal them.....the background check does nothing to stop this.....

They are not caught with background checks...they are caught committing actual crimes and then arrested. The background check has nothing to do with it...nice lie though.

How do you know that people aren't denied when they try to purchase?

Felons use people with clean records to buy their guns or they steal them.....the background check does nothing to stop this.....

So we should do nothing?

Because the stats show it...initial denials are eventually granted....that means they are not criminals getting caught in the background check....

Who said to do nothing...if you catch a felon with a gun, arrest them and put them in prison for 10 years. If someone commits a crime with a gun...arrest them and put them in prison.

That is gun control that actually works...and actually targets criminals.

 

[2aguy]

Whoever you are talking to, One, is full of shit. However, I have the ignorant SOB on "ignore", whoever he is, so, I don't know who he is...nor do I care.

Background checks stopped 2.1 million gun sales in 20 years.

Report: Checks stop 2.1M gun buys

Wrong.....those are initial denials which, upon appeal are granted......that is an anti gun propaganda point.....the main way felons get guns is through straw buyers...meaning people who can pass background checks which means they are not getting stopped.....

and by stealiing their guns...which again bypasses background checks......

 

[ChrisL]

I have the truth, facts and reality........you hate guns.....you don't want people to have guns...so in order to push your agenda, you have to lie by omission, lie with emotions....and hide the truth, facts and reality.

Then you act like a child.....

Actually it was you lying and then acting like a child, hence your childish responses. You lose again.

Sorry, we have facts on our side. You have fear and misinformation.

No you have poorly done surveys and studies by disgraced economics professors. Look at OP, that is real.

Nope. The facts are against you. Sorry. Now, try rebutting some of the points I've made. Then maybe you would be taken more seriously around here. Oh, that's right, you can't.

Study: Concealed Handgun Permits Don't Affect Crime Rate

Oh, so it's just a coincidence??? Why do you want to prevent people from defending themselves? You can argue all day, but the facts remain that at least 10s of thousands of people do in fact defend themselves with guns. Isn't that right?

Are you trying to convince us that a gun does not deter a potential attacker?

 

[2aguy]

Guns are equalizers. It won't matter how young and how strong he is, a 9mm hollowpoint will rip a hole in him just as fast as a weakling. 99% of robbers surveyed said they preferred unarmed victims.

And, you prefer unarmed robbers. How is that different?

You obviously aren't equal when you both have a gun...

Exactly how are we not equal if we both have guns......please....don't put too much stress on your brain...it can't take it...

 

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Many are probably homicides with no witnesses.

So now you are accusing law abiding gun owners of murder? Lol.

 

[2aguy]

Oh great Chris. You are really going to be in trouble with 2ndA.

You have posted a video with realistic DGU numbers; 80,000.
Which I can believe.

Of course 2ndA guy is.STUCK on 1.5 million DGUs.

You in trouble..LMAO.

Sorry....I list all the numbers.....from all of the studies...and bill clinton says the number is 1,500,000 and obama agrees with him........

 

[2aguy]

Oh great Chris. You are really going to be in trouble with 2ndA.

You have posted a video with realistic DGU numbers; 80,000.
Which I can believe.

Of course 2ndA guy is.STUCK on 1.5 million DGUs.

You in trouble..LMAO.

The numbers are right here...from actual researchers....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[ChrisL]

The facts are this . . .

Professor Kleck estimates that annually 1,500-2,800 felons are legally killed in "excusable self-defense" or "justifiable" shootings by civilians, and 8,000-16,000 criminals are wounded. This compares to 300-600 justifiable homicides by police. Yet, in most instances, civilians used a firearm to threaten, apprehend, shoot at a criminal, or to fire a warning shot without injuring anyone.

Based on his extensive independent survey research, Kleck estimates that each year Americans use guns for protection from criminals more than 2.5 million times annually. 7 U.S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that protective use of a gun lessens the chance that robberies, rapes, and assaults will be successfully completed while also reducing the likelihood of victim injury. Clearly, criminals fear armed citizens.

There are only a little over 200 justifiable homicides with a gun each year... You aren't talking facts.

And we have already shown how that number is very much a low ball. Right?

Ah so you are back into fantasy numbers again? We know how many people are killed in justifiable homicides.

Expanded Homicide Data

Many are probably homicides with no witnesses.

Are you trying to convince people that the only time there was a self defense with a gun is when the criminal was actually shot and killed? Really??? Well this is great because people are not as stupid as you seem to think and are going to see through your dishonesty.

No. You posted a claim there are 1500-2800 justifiable homicides. I posted a link to the FBI proving there are less than 300. Your source is obviously dramatically wrong. Your facts aren't facts at all.

You aren't including those who didn't have to fire their weapons. Just brandishing the weapon was enough to prevent the crime. Isn't that right?

 

[2aguy]

The facts are that you anti-rights folks have nothing but fear mongering and misinformation on your side, while we have facts, statistics, etc.

Chris. I have had guns longer than you have been alive. At last count there were 12 guns in my home.

I agreed with most of what the guy said except for the numbers of people owning guns. From what I have read, while.numbers of guns in the population have gone up, the percentage of Americans owning guns has declined.

The most important thing he said was to tamp down the passion and show a little more compassion. True story there.

That myth about ownership going down comes from an anti gunner in charge of the General Social Survey...he has stated he wants to use his research to help politicians push gun control...

The other polling companies disagree and say the number has stayed the same or risen...

And the fact is that more Americans are not answering any questions about gun ownership to anonymous people on the phone.....just not happening....

 

[2aguy]

What? Lol. You are the nutter here, bud. That's why I don't really respond to your posts.

You making me think you stupid.

You don't respond to my posts cause you don't want me to expose your stupidity.

I say you are stupid cause you posted a video saying EXACTLY what I have been.claiming for months; the idea that there are 1.5 million DGUs every year is crazy. And here you give me a post that says 80k DGUs is feasible. And I agree with those numbers. Funny shit. Thanks.

I would take that post down if I were you.2nd A is.gonna crucify you for posting that. LMAO.

The Yankee Marshal...who I watch frequently, is not an actual researcher..........you know...a professional who does research....I have listed all of the studied conducted by actual researchers...you don't like the facts...so you deny them.

 

[ChrisL]

Regardless of which numbers you go by, 100s of thousands of people have protected themselves against being victims of criminals with their guns.

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

 

[ChrisL]

So, at least hundreds of thousands of people protect themselves and their families with guns each year.

 

[2aguy]

Even the low ball figure by the NCVS is more than 80,000.

The National Crime Victimization Survey doesn't count...it is not an actual gun study...in fact it never even asks about guns or has the word gun in the study....but the anti gunners cling to it because it is the only study that puts gun use really low...all the others are 765,000 or higher...