6 dead , 3 wounded - guns make you safer ?

[2aguy]

Get back to me when you can follow the conversations about guns on this board

There are those here who think that a law abiding gun owner is responsible for crimes committed by others with guns for no other reason than that he owns guns

Responsibility includes making decisions that make their world safer, not more dangerous.

The fact that I own guns makes no one else's world more dangerous.

It does. It gives implicit approval to others that guns are socially acceptable. It makes guns for criminals to steal more readily available. It contributes to a society where everyone else thinks they too need a gun for self defense. Well, you've got one, so I'd better, too.

I disagree, I don’t own a gun, never have been inclined to, however I support the right for a person to chose to have a gun or not, just as I have chosen.

This is hard for me, because most of the people I know are gun owners, although they are quiet about it. Hunting, or a shotgun in the closet for those nasty moments like a rabid raccoon in the yard or to wave around if a druggie tries stealing your truck out of the driveway. I don't worry a bit about them owning a gun. But the majority of them, except for hunting, have never shot at anything and therefore don't need a gun at all. I think it would be a better and safer country if people just accepted that guns are, in the vast majority of cases, "overkill." Pardon my pun.

Britain is becoming more and more violent......they have more and more illegal guns in their country, and they are an island.......your theory holds no weight.

 

[2aguy]

SO what?

I own guns and I am not responsible for the crimes of other people.
I own a car and I am not responsible for the reckless driving of other people
I own a lighter and cans of gasoline and I am not responsible for the arson other people commit

Do you get the drift yet or should I go on?

So what?

Okay. I guess I've got your number.

People die every second of every day

Why don't you tell me how I am responsible for all the people who commit crimes with guns simple because I happen to own some?

Perhaps truly responsible people don't choose to own and use devices designed to take life as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Like cars? They're not designed to take life but, in the hands of an irresponsible driver, they take life just as efficiently as a gun will nonetheless.

The car comparison is stupid. Why don't we try iron fry pans? Carving knives.
I am talking about guns. Keep on track, please.

You call the car comparison stupid because it destroys your argument.

For 93 people killed in mass public shootings you want 600 million guns banned and confiscated, even though 1.1 million Americans use their guns to save lives.....

Cars are used accidentally to kill 38,000 people every single year......so according to your "gun logic" that would mean we need to ban them to save lives....but since that is a stupid idea, you have to call a comparison between deaths stupid.....otherwise you have to admit how irrational your theories and arguments are.

 

[2aguy]

What makes you think that the govt. is going to ask for people to turn their guns in?

Absent confiscation, gun control can have no effect on crime, because of the hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation.

I agree. There`s nothing that could be done that would make any difference for several decades. We`re dealing with the plague so we should do nothing and accept it?

It is not a plague, it is a criminal control problem in our democrat controlled inner cities....which you do not want to address. The criminals who actually use illegal guns to shoot people have multiple felony arrests for illegal possession of guns....which are then bargained away by local democrat prosecutors and judges due to racial criminal justice polices......they then go out and murder people with guns...

That is the issue, not normal people who own guns for self defense. You don't care about the actual killers, you just hate guns.

 

[2aguy]

We are talking about people being SHOT.

Why aren't we talking about people shooting back?

Because it hardly ever happens.

The Centers for Disease Control research says it happens 1.1 million times a year....the Department of Justice research states it happens 1.5 million times a year......

It happens a lot...you don't want to admit it, you want to lie about it because it destroys your argument for gun confiscation.

Just ask the people of Venezuela if they agree with your gun confiscation policies now...

 

[2aguy]

Why aren't we talking about people shooting back?

Because it hardly ever happens.

Why do people rarely shoot back in mass shootings?

They are too busy ducking? Think back on all the mass shootings we've had in the past few years. There were a few where civilians shot back. They all missed. A couple of shooters were stopped by being jumped on by a brave stand-er-by though. No gun was needed and no gun by civilians made a difference.

I know where you want to go with Gun Free Zones being "dangerous" but I vehemently disagree.

You don't know what you are talking about.....this is research that looked at actual mass public shootings where armed citizens were actually involved and used their legal guns.......you make crap up and think it is true...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[2aguy]

Is it overkill when a person uses their gun to stop an intruder or attacker?

Police carry sidearms at all times while on duty for the twenty to thirty years of their career and most of them will tell you they've never had to pull it or fire at a suspect their entire career. Most of those who have will say they only had to do so two or three times. Most of them will also say they hope to never have to draw their weapon.
The same goes for civilian gun owners. I have a handgun myself and I hope like hell I never have to point it at someone and most legal and responsible gun owners will say the same.

The point is, a firearm may or may not be overkill sitting in the gun case but it most definitely is not overkill when you need it to protect your family.

I have a handgun myself and I hope like hell I never have to point it at someone
Yes, you have never needed it to protect your family. You swallowed the NRA "buy more guns" argument of why you should be afraid enough of life to need a gun. I hope you never have to point it at anyone either; most likely you won't.

So are you ready to give the government your gun if they ask for it?

I wouldn't own one or have one in my house if you paid me.

Your choice and I wholeheartedly support your right to exercise that choice

All I ask of you is to do the same

Sadly, sometimes we all have to suffer for the few who abuse their privileges. It happens all the time. We wouldn't need laws at all if it weren't for them that break them. But gun ownership causes 10,000 deaths a YEAR in this country. It is a public health issue if nothing else and we sit on our hands and do absolutely nothing.

Guns are used 1.1 million times a year to save lives from rape, robbery and murder....

Of those 10,000 shootings, the majority are committed by repeat gun offenders let out of prison or out on bail by democrat prosecutors, judges and politicians....those people are the problem, not law abiding gun owners......

 

[2aguy]

So are you ready to give the government your gun if they ask for it?

I wouldn't own one or have one in my house if you paid me.

Your choice and I wholeheartedly support your right to exercise that choice

All I ask of you is to do the same

Sadly, sometimes we all have to suffer for the few who abuse their privileges. It happens all the time. We wouldn't need laws at all if it weren't for them that break them. But gun ownership causes 10,000 deaths a YEAR in this country. It is a public health issue if nothing else and we sit on our hands and do absolutely nothing.

So what do you feel the answer is?

Making it tough to own a gun. Psychological evaluation, THOROUGH background check, pass a basic safety exam. Then make the license renewable every six years and follow the whole procedure again. Every time. Someone mentally stable when they first get a gun may be in a different state in six years. Or was put in jail in the interim. If it is a renewal, maybe there should be a basic field test, too. Just basic handling safety. There should also be some kind of automatic check on amounts of ammunition purchased. The owner's license # should be required for every ammunition purchase. Anyone stockpiling ammunition should be looked at.

Why not? If you are going to own a lethal weapon, it should NOT be as easy as walking into Walmart and forking out a few hundred bucks.

And that damned Constitution gets in the way........... you can't take away a Right through Literacy Tests like the ones you propose.....that is how the democrats kept Blacks from voting...and you are using the same tactic against gun owners.

 

[Issa]

TBI Investigating Seven Related Homicides, Officer-Involved Shooting in Sumner County
This looks like a domestic situation. In countries with proper gun control a row leads to a few doors getting slammed and a night in the pub. At least only one child was slaughtered this time.

You wasting your time sir.
I was just like the rest of the world before I lived in the US. I was shocked at the amount of gun violence and death....now that I live here, people became numb to it they think it is the norm. Also the culture of violence is deeply rooted.
30 000 deaths or so each year, and they find it normal and they also think other countries are far worse...true but sad. Love this country but it has one of the dumbest population as the whole world already knows.

Not dumb enough to disarm our citizens to "make them safe."

We have the 2nd amendment that guarantees the right to keep an bear arms.

When you come up with a way to regulate and control people who will use a gun to rob or murder someone. Put a patent on it.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon.

And you are an idiot.

And people get shot dead everyday in this country. You are numb to it.

 

[Issa]

TBI Investigating Seven Related Homicides, Officer-Involved Shooting in Sumner County
This looks like a domestic situation. In countries with proper gun control a row leads to a few doors getting slammed and a night in the pub. At least only one child was slaughtered this time.

You wasting your time sir.
I was just like the rest of the world before I lived in the US. I was shocked at the amount of gun violence and death....now that I live here, people became numb to it they think it is the norm. Also the culture of violence is deeply rooted.
30 000 deaths or so each year, and they find it normal and they also think other countries are far worse...true but sad. Love this country but it has one of the dumbest population as the whole world already knows.

Not dumb enough to disarm our citizens to "make them safe."

We have the 2nd amendment that guarantees the right to keep an bear arms.

When you come up with a way to regulate and control people who will use a gun to rob or murder someone. Put a patent on it.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon.

And you are an idiot.

What is interesting is Issa comes from a country with a terrible human rights record when it comes to women, gays and Christians. He says nothing about that, yet criticizes the United States every chance he gets and doesn't vote, probably because he can't do so legally.

Never said that my mother country is perfect. But we dont kill each other like you have been doing.
American kids are not safe to go to school Moroccan kids can.
In a 23 years that I lived there not once a mass shooting or people getting shot at work , when i landed here the first time, while watching the news i had an overdose of the amounts of deaths here.
No country is perfect...but America is fucked when it comes to crimes, violence and aggressiveness.

 

[Issa]

TBI Investigating Seven Related Homicides, Officer-Involved Shooting in Sumner County
This looks like a domestic situation. In countries with proper gun control a row leads to a few doors getting slammed and a night in the pub. At least only one child was slaughtered this time.

You wasting your time sir.
I was just like the rest of the world before I lived in the US. I was shocked at the amount of gun violence and death....now that I live here, people became numb to it they think it is the norm. Also the culture of violence is deeply rooted.
30 000 deaths or so each year, and they find it normal and they also think other countries are far worse...true but sad. Love this country but it has one of the dumbest population as the whole world already knows.

Not dumb enough to disarm our citizens to "make them safe."

We have the 2nd amendment that guarantees the right to keep an bear arms.

When you come up with a way to regulate and control people who will use a gun to rob or murder someone. Put a patent on it.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon.

And you are an idiot.

What is interesting is Issa comes from a country with a terrible human rights record when it comes to women, gays and Christians. He says nothing about that, yet criticizes the United States every chance he gets and doesn't vote, probably because he can't do so legally.

What country is he from??

If he doesn't like it here he can go back to that shithole. Goodbye

The first country that re organized the independence of the US. Nah is a great country with great bonding society, we dont have ***** like you.

 

[Issa]

TBI Investigating Seven Related Homicides, Officer-Involved Shooting in Sumner County
This looks like a domestic situation. In countries with proper gun control a row leads to a few doors getting slammed and a night in the pub. At least only one child was slaughtered this time.

You wasting your time sir.
I was just like the rest of the world before I lived in the US. I was shocked at the amount of gun violence and death....now that I live here, people became numb to it they think it is the norm. Also the culture of violence is deeply rooted.
30 000 deaths or so each year, and they find it normal and they also think other countries are far worse...true but sad. Love this country but it has one of the dumbest population as the whole world already knows.

Not dumb enough to disarm our citizens to "make them safe."

We have the 2nd amendment that guarantees the right to keep an bear arms.

When you come up with a way to regulate and control people who will use a gun to rob or murder someone. Put a patent on it.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon.

And you are an idiot.

What is interesting is Issa comes from a country with a terrible human rights record when it comes to women, gays and Christians. He says nothing about that, yet criticizes the United States every chance he gets and doesn't vote, probably because he can't do so legally.

What country is he from??

If he doesn't like it here he can go back to that shithole. Goodbye

Morocco, he claims that it isn't that bad however you can read story after story of the problems there. He is only in the US for money, no loyalty, nothing but the almighty dollar and when he is done he will move back to Morocco. He is basically a greedy SOB.

Lol who said that ?

 

[Issa]

You wasting your time sir.
I was just like the rest of the world before I lived in the US. I was shocked at the amount of gun violence and death....now that I live here, people became numb to it they think it is the norm. Also the culture of violence is deeply rooted.
30 000 deaths or so each year, and they find it normal and they also think other countries are far worse...true but sad. Love this country but it has one of the dumbest population as the whole world already knows.

Not dumb enough to disarm our citizens to "make them safe."

We have the 2nd amendment that guarantees the right to keep an bear arms.

When you come up with a way to regulate and control people who will use a gun to rob or murder someone. Put a patent on it.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon.

And you are an idiot.

What is interesting is Issa comes from a country with a terrible human rights record when it comes to women, gays and Christians. He says nothing about that, yet criticizes the United States every chance he gets and doesn't vote, probably because he can't do so legally.

What country is he from??

If he doesn't like it here he can go back to that shithole. Goodbye

Morocco, he claims that it isn't that bad however you can read story after story of the problems there. He is only in the US for money, no loyalty, nothing but the almighty dollar and when he is done he will move back to Morocco. He is basically a greedy SOB.

Well there are plenty just like him all over.

He should shag his ass back to Morocco.

I do when I feel like. I'm a US citizen and you can kiss my ass....if me and others can abolish the 2nd our kids will .

 

[Uncensored2008]

In country's with proper gun control stabbings make up for it. What country would that be? Clean the cesspool of London before you worry about America.

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

Lying again Ahmed?

A knife attack every 4 minutes; 130,000 per year - but ministers still insist crime rates are falling | Daily Mail Online

 

[Uncensored2008]

In country's with proper gun control stabbings make up for it. What country would that be? Clean the cesspool of London before you worry about America.

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

In country's with proper gun control stabbings make up for it. What country would that be? Clean the cesspool of London before you worry about America.

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

Using FBI figures.

Why oh why do you imbeciles quote trump when trying to make a point ?
Trump lied as the article shows.
US knife crime is significantly worse than that in the UK.
Suck on that you ignorant fuck.

 

[impuretrash]

In country's with proper gun control stabbings make up for it. What country would that be? Clean the cesspool of London before you worry about America.

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

Using FBI figures.

Why oh why do you imbeciles quote trump when trying to make a point ?
Trump lied as the article shows.
US knife crime is significantly worse than that in the UK.
Suck on that you ignorant fuck.

Any stats comparing the rate of acid attacks?

When did the UK's knife homicide rate grow so close to that of the US?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

In country's with proper gun control stabbings make up for it. What country would that be? Clean the cesspool of London before you worry about America.

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

Using FBI figures.

Why oh why do you imbeciles quote trump when trying to make a point ?
Trump lied as the article shows.
US knife crime is significantly worse than that in the UK.
Suck on that you ignorant fuck.

Any stats comparing the rate of acid attacks?

When did the UK's knife homicide rate grow so close to that of the US?

Lol, lose the argument and change the subject. You drones are fucking hilarious.

 

[impuretrash]

Your knife crime is worse than ours as well.

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

Using FBI figures.

Why oh why do you imbeciles quote trump when trying to make a point ?
Trump lied as the article shows.
US knife crime is significantly worse than that in the UK.
Suck on that you ignorant fuck.

Any stats comparing the rate of acid attacks?

When did the UK's knife homicide rate grow so close to that of the US?

Lol, lose the argument and change the subject. You drones are fucking hilarious.

I'm not the one who made the argument in the first place. I'm asking questions. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the knife-homicide rate correlates with Islamic migration. Maybe I'll look into it later.

 

[emilynghiem]

TBI Investigating Seven Related Homicides, Officer-Involved Shooting in Sumner County
This looks like a domestic situation. In countries with proper gun control a row leads to a few doors getting slammed and a night in the pub. At least only one child was slaughtered this time.

Dear Tommy Tainant
In order to get rid of all risk of guns getting into the hands of criminals,
do you agree to implement mandatory spiritual healing to diagnose, screen, treat and cure all causes of criminal intent, reactions, addictions and abuse?

If you support dictating "gun control" that affects all citizens,
why not require all citizens to undergo "spiritual background checks" and require treatment until they receive a clear diagnosis?

Wouldn't that stop all murder, rape, crime, abuse and violence?

Or do you only care about crimes that use weapons?

Why not go after the root cause of criminal disorder that is behind ALL acts of crime, abuse and violence, including gun violence?

That way, Tommy Tainant, with one system of "background checks" you can not only capture criminal sickness before it leads to gun violence, but before it leads to rape, murder or any other crimes!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We have a hell of a lot more people.

Per capita knife attacks are substantially higher in Londonstan.

The Muzzie Beast knows it, he's just lying.

We looked at murder rates from both weapons over a five-year period.

There were 34 firearm homicides in the US per million of population in 2016, compared with 0.48 shooting-related murders in the UK.

Knife murders are also higher stateside: there were 4.96 homicides “due to knives or cutting instruments” in the US for every million of population in 2016.

In Britain there were 3.26 homicides involving a sharp instrument per million people in the year from April 2016 to March 2017.

Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare?

Using FBI figures.

Why oh why do you imbeciles quote trump when trying to make a point ?
Trump lied as the article shows.
US knife crime is significantly worse than that in the UK.
Suck on that you ignorant fuck.

Any stats comparing the rate of acid attacks?

When did the UK's knife homicide rate grow so close to that of the US?

Lol, lose the argument and change the subject. You drones are fucking hilarious.

I'm not the one who made the argument in the first place. I'm asking questions. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the knife-homicide rate correlates with Islamic migration. Maybe I'll look into it later.

So you are saying that our Muslim citizens make the UK a lot safer than the US ?