A Burning Question about the NYC attack and terrorism in general...

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Dear Democrats...

Why send thoughts and prayers to victims of terrorism when you resist any attempt to save lives by addressing the problem directly? Why bother when you're too consumed by your own political agenda? Does this not make your "thoughts and prayers" meaningless?

Spare me your sanctimony about "the Muslim ban". What happened in New York yesterday requires far more than "thoughts and prayers"; we need action, to weed out the radicals who distort their own faith to take innocent life. You want us to have sympathy on the refugees fleeing their war torn countries, but apparently none on the Americans that some of these wolves in sheep's clothing kill indiscriminately.

I've heard and seen enough. I've stopped short of labeling all of Islam as a dangerous ideology, mainly because I know Muslims that put some of the best practicing Christians in our society under a table. Christianity had to deal with its radical elements, so too should Islam. If not, that is what armed conflict is for. We will deal with its radical elements if it will not.

Do more than pray or mourn, stop standing in the way. Do your job and put the safety and welfare of the American citizenry first. Radical Islamic Terrorism is real. What will you do about it?

Sincerely,

An upset American citizen

Though I am not a registered Democrat, I generally vote Democrat. I will answer your question(s):

It would appear that liberalism is failing badly on this issue. Think: What the US did to the Iraqi Kurds (three times).

Liberals need to wake the fuck up and examine the religion of Islam. They need to empower the moderate Muslims and others (remember: there are FAR more Islamic victims of these fundamentalist maniacs than otherwise) speaking out against the horrible ideas attributed (usually, rightfully so) to Islam. I have been watching liberals call moderate Muslims "Islamophobes", while watching hardened right wingers dismiss all Muslims, wholesale.

Of course, it makes some sense to say that reducing the number of Muslims entering our country will reduce Islamic terrorism. but that idea is buffered by the idea that we are condemning the moderates... the malleable Muslims.... the assimilatable Muslims, the Muslims who WANT a western education ...


By rejecting these people, we doom them to death/imprisonment/alienation, or assimilation into a fundamentalist, oppressive Islamic culture. we lose them all.

I thought we were a 'tough" country, who would stand up for our ideas... openness, smart decisions, we'll tough it out... you would raise the white flag? No, we need to empower the moderate Muslims. And, while I think you generally suck on that front (anyone can improve), liberals are also sucking by making themselves human shields for any perceived attack on Islam.

Liberals need to stand up for human rights and condemn these stupid assholes in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, etc. And they need to back up the moderate Muslims by not only fighting for their assimilation and empowerment, but also condemning the very evil ideas these moderates are confronting themselves.

 

[Sundance508]

I've said it many times. The Middle East has to go through a process similar to what Europe had to go through over the past two centuries. The transition from theocracies to democracies is bloody. There is no avoiding it.

What we in the US have to decide is how involved we want to be in that process. My opinion is that we should be involved as little as possible.

The only reason we are involved at all is because of geopolitical and natural resource considerations. Which is why the past umpteen Presidents have promised to make us energy independent.

I have confidence the Arab world will come through. I think all the US can do by getting involved is delay the process or making it more bloody than it will already have to be.[/QUOTE]

I don't see the mess in the Middle East as being a problem of transitioning from theocracies to democracies. I can think of only two theocracies there: Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. has been sucking up to Saudi Arabia for decades. The other countries seem to have a majority religion, just as Christianity is the majority faith in the U.S., but this is far from being a theocracy. I know that Ataturk set up Turkey as a secular nation, for example. Egypt has had secular leadership for decades, although some of these leaders have played footsie with the Muslim religious right similar to the way some of our politicians play footsie with the Christian religious right, but the Egyptian government would not want to lose the big bucks it gets from the tourist trade. Most of the countries are simply politically unstable, with wannabe dictators and strongmen, similar to what has been going on in countries in Central and South America, and are being harassed by religious fundamentalist insurgents.

If the U.S. and the U.K. had left the Middle East alone, half of this crap over the last decades probably would not have happened and the people in the region would not view the U.S. with such suspicion.

The following is an interesting account of the CIA's and British Intelligence's involvement in overthrowing Iran's democratically-elected government in 1953:
64 Years Later, CIA Finally Releases Details of Iranian Coup

This situation horribly complicated, but has much less to do with religion than it does with regional alliances, factions, rivalries, and, of course, oil.[/QUOTE]

.The central and most important question regarding the middle east is can Islam reform itself?

"I have to be honest with you. Islam is on very thin ice with me.... Through our screaming self-pity and our conspicuous silences, we Muslims are conspiring against ourselves. We're in crisis and we're dragging the rest of the world with us. If ever there was a moment for an Islamic reformation, it's now. For the love of God, what are we doing about it?"

In this open letter, Irshad Manji unearths the troubling cornerstones of mainstream Islam today: tribal insularity, deep-seated anti-Semitism, and an uncritical acceptance of the Koran as the final, and therefore superior, manifesto of God's will. But her message is ultimately positive. She offers a practical vision of how Islam can undergo a reformation that empowers women, promotes respect for religious minorities, and fosters a competition of ideas. Her vision revives "ijtihad," Islam's lost tradition of independent thinking. In that spirit, Irshad has a refreshing challenge for both Muslims and non-Muslims: Don't silence yourselves. Ask questions---out loud. The Trouble with Islam Today is a clarion call for a fatwa-free future.

https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Islam-Today-Muslims-Reform/dp/0312327005&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Sundance508]

Dear Democrats...

Why send thoughts and prayers to victims of terrorism when you resist any attempt to save lives by addressing the problem directly? Why bother when you're too consumed by your own political agenda? Does this not make your "thoughts and prayers" meaningless?

Spare me your sanctimony about "the Muslim ban". What happened in New York yesterday requires far more than "thoughts and prayers"; we need action, to weed out the radicals who distort their own faith to take innocent life. You want us to have sympathy on the refugees fleeing their war torn countries, but apparently none on the Americans that some of these wolves in sheep's clothing kill indiscriminately.

I've heard and seen enough. I've stopped short of labeling all of Islam as a dangerous ideology, mainly because I know Muslims that put some of the best practicing Christians in our society under a table. Christianity had to deal with its radical elements, so too should Islam. If not, that is what armed conflict is for. We will deal with its radical elements if it will not.

Do more than pray or mourn, stop standing in the way. Do your job and put the safety and welfare of the American citizenry first. Radical Islamic Terrorism is real. What will you do about it?

Sincerely,

An upset American citizen

Though I am not a registered Democrat, I generally vote Democrat. I will answer your question(s):

It would appear that liberalism is failing badly on this issue. Think: What the US did to the Iraqi Kurds (three times).

Liberals need to wake the fuck up and examine the religion of Islam. They need to empower the moderate Muslims and others (remember: there are FAR more Islamic victims of these fundamentalist maniacs than otherwise) speaking out against the horrible ideas attributed (usually, rightfully so) to Islam. I have been watching liberals call moderate Muslims "Islamophobes", while watching hardened right wingers dismiss all Muslims, wholesale.

Of course, it makes some sense to say that reducing the number of Muslims entering our country will reduce Islamic terrorism. but that idea is buffered by the idea that we are condemning the moderates... the malleable Muslims.... the assimilatable Muslims, the Muslims who WANT a western education ...


By rejecting these people, we doom them to death/imprisonment/alienation, or assimilation into a fundamentalist, oppressive Islamic culture. we lose them all.

I thought we were a 'tough" country, who would stand up for our ideas... openness, smart decisions, we'll tough it out... you would raise the white flag? No, we need to empower the moderate Muslims. And, while I think you generally suck on that front (anyone can improve), liberals are also sucking by making themselves human shields for any perceived attack on Islam.

Liberals need to stand up for human rights and condemn these stupid assholes in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq, etc. And they need to back up the moderate Muslims by not only fighting for their assimilation and empowerment, but also condemning the very evil ideas these moderates are confronting themselves.

A top Shariah lawyer’s stunning response to the question: ‘Is there such a thing as moderate Islam?’

A top Shariah lawyer’s stunning response to the question: ‘Is there such a thing as moderate Islam?’

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The solution is simple, all cars must be retrofitted to be dirven by gps guidance computers only with all manual steering removed. All registered cars that fail to meet this requirement upon 90 days of the law's passage will be confiscated.

 

[Sundance508]

Now, law enforcement sources are telling the media that the attacker, Uzbekistan native Sayfullo Saipov, was previously known to authorities for his direct ties to other terrorism suspects under investigation. This makes the attack yet another case of what I have termed "Known Wolf" terrorism. Virtually every terror attack carried out in the United States in recent years was committed by individuals already known to authorities: New York City Terror Attack Is Confirmed As 'Known Wolf' Terrorism ... Again

Yet because of The Left’s Alliance with Jihadists and Illegals and PC our OWN Government refuses to deport these people.

Any association with any terrorist in any way should result in immediate and instant deportation and permanent ban from America forever.

But when you have Satan Worshipping Traitors like Obama and his followers and Globalists like him in power in any office or position of authority we not only refuse to do this we actually help Terrorists and Illegals avoid law enforcement and Obstruct Justice!

You are absolutely correct. What many do not know is that we spend a lot of money having FBI agents monitor suspicious muslims....a incredible expense. When it would be much better...safer for America and at the same time save a lot of money that could be better spent ....to simply deport all the suspicious ones. Now of course there is a problem with that ...our liberal judges would shoot it down no doubt. But it is something that should be pursued...and one way would be to publisize this activity of the FBI and the costs entailed and the danger of letting suspicious muslims remain here in America as is well demonstrated by the latest terror attack in N.Y. Does anyone really think this will be the last one?...we see a very disturbing trend in America regarding islamic terrorism in America...for a few days everyone gets upset...hollers and screams but nothing really gets done about it. The NY mayor and other liberals say we will not live in fear...and at the same time they are afraid even to say "islamic terrorism" did you see the press conference a few hrs. after the recent attack...all of them the mayor, the police chief, etc. all refused to mention islamic terrorism...they would only call it terrorism...they would not even mention the words of the perp as he exited the truck....allah akbahr...even though there were multiple witnesses to that. And you heard the ridiculous nonsense from the mass media...'oh we are trying to make some sense of this' blah blah blah

Now Trump does want to do something and has tried...but the courts work against his best efforts. So obviously we are going to see a lot more Innocent Americans sacrificed on the altar of political correctness...I said this right after 9/11...just too much opposition to our taking of actions that would really make America safer....you see the opponents and their narrative right here on this board...utter nonsense...such claptrap they espouse....but the liberal politicians and the liberal judges enforce their opinions....absolutely nuts. But that is what we are up against ....will they ever come to their senses? I think not...perhaps if the terrorists are ever able to inflict a fatal blow on America an attack using a nuclear weapon or some chemical or biological weapon that kills millions and cripples America...a day or two after that...they might realize just how stupid they have been..of course much too late.

 

[Slyhunter]

Question of the day........ why did Uber ban him as a driver months ago?

Supposedly he had a couple of businesses where we live in Ohio. I don't know what happened to them either.

They closed them because they wouldn't serve same-sex couples.

Close Mosques if they refuse to serve same sex couples.

 

[Sundance508]

The solution is simple, all cars must be retrofitted to be dirven by gps guidance computers only with all manual steering removed. All registered cars that fail to meet this requirement upon 90 days of the law's passage will be confiscated.

The liberals would probably claim that discriminates against muslim cabbies.

 

[Aletheia4u]

 

[Sundance508]

Question of the day........ why did Uber ban him as a driver months ago?

Supposedly he had a couple of businesses where we live in Ohio. I don't know what happened to them either.

They closed them because they wouldn't serve same-sex couples.

Close Mosques if they refuse to serve same sex couples.

Well the first amendment would nix that for sure. Perhaps we need a new amendment to the constitution....that makes it legal to ban Islam from these shores. Our forefathers never realized how the first amendment would be used for the benefit of our enemies. Personally I still think the only way to save America is to declare Martial Law and get down to business..if you get mah drift.

 

[Sundance508]

Sounds like another psycho case...dressed in black next to the halloween aisle...oh yeh.

But if it is a white dude....watch the main stream media go apeshit.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...............
Trump vows crackdown after New York attack. Lots of luck with that...just watch how the courts and the democrats react to that................Trump vows crackdown after New York attack

 

[jillian]

Maybe Melania is hoping to get $1,300,000 in personal jewelry from the Saudis like Michelle did? And of course the Obama's took all of their $millions in personal gifts from the Saudis when they left

Yeah let's see a link to that one bubbalah

One that isn't trumpsters nonsense.

Nice deflection btw. Thanks for trolling by.

Now answer the questions I politely posed. You know, without shilling for Donald

Are you serious? You don't know that the Saudis gave SUPER lavish gifts to the Obamas???

HAHAHAHA.....

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/d...ave-over-13m-in-gifts-to-the-obamas-last-year

Hillary Clinton’s gifts from foreign leaders more lavish than those for Obama

The 12 best gifts world leaders gave the Obamas in 2014 - CNNPolitics

Don't you know that federal law requires that all gifts given by foreign governments to presidents, their families, and other government official must be handed over to the GSA? They don't get to keep this stuff. trump doesn't get to keep what the Saudis gave him, either.

except when the Saudis and others stay at his hotels and golf on his golf courses. that money goes into the Donald's coffers.

and no, he doesn't know that the Clintons and obamas didn't get to keep any of those things. but no one expects him to. *shrug*

Maybe Melania is hoping to get $1,300,000 in personal jewelry from the Saudis like Michelle did? And of course the Obama's took all of their $millions in personal gifts from the Saudis when they left

Yeah let's see a link to that one bubbalah

One that isn't trumpsters nonsense.

Nice deflection btw. Thanks for trolling by.

Now answer the questions I politely posed. You know, without shilling for Donald

Are you serious? You don't know that the Saudis gave SUPER lavish gifts to the Obamas???

HAHAHAHA.....

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/d...ave-over-13m-in-gifts-to-the-obamas-last-year

Hillary Clinton’s gifts from foreign leaders more lavish than those for Obama

The 12 best gifts world leaders gave the Obamas in 2014 - CNNPolitics

Don't you know that federal law requires that all gifts given by foreign governments to presidents, their families, and other government official must be handed over to the GSA? They don't get to keep this stuff. trump doesn't get to keep what the Saudis gave him, either.

except when the Saudis and others stay at his hotels and golf on his golf courses. that money goes into the Donald's coffers.

and no, he doesn't know that the Clintons and obamas didn't get to keep any of those things. but no one expects him to. *shrug*

Gingrich: Clinton broke law with foreign foundation giving

why would anyone give a rat's patoot what that hack says?

his "opinion" is worthless

 

[jillian]

So, nobody will address the fact that every country listed never attacks us while we sign arms deals with Saudi Arabia?

You disingenuous partisan hacks.

At least we are getting something out of it. What is our country getting when terrorist judges stop Trump from banning these Muslims?

the first amendment doesn't let the orange sociopath ban muslims. perhaps that confuses you....

wackjob.

Have you ever read the first amendment? Here it is......... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It has nothing to do with immigration. Trumps ban was not based on religion...it was based on a proclivity for terrorism in certain foreign countries. It did not ban all muslims...only those from certain areas known to present a danger to America because of their history of terrorism.

you understand there is an entire body of case law construing the first amendment, right, shookerdoodle?

and islam is a religion, not a nationality, snooks, and is entitled to the protection of the first amendment. or is that beyond you?

 

[jillian]

Sounds like another psycho case...dressed in black next to the halloween aisle...oh yeh.

But if it is a white dude....watch the main stream media go apeshit.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...............
Trump vows crackdown after New York attack. Lots of luck with that...just watch how the courts and the democrats react to that................Trump vows crackdown after New York attack

actually, you nutter butters like calling it "mental illness" if it's a white dude and want to start martial law if the person has the slightest bit of melanin or is a muslim.

 

[TemplarKormac]

and how should that be done, idiot? do you take the internet away from angry men? if they did, you would be off-line permanently.

Hah! You have no grasp on this issue whatsoever, jillian. Though the internet is an effective medium for terrorists to spread their vile ideologies, it also spurs the like minded into action. I never said anything about "taking the internet away."

a lot more people have been killed by terrorism in this country since 9/11 by white christian terrorists.

Do you have stats or links to back that up? I'm not denying there are "White Christian terrorists" but am simply refusing to acknowledge the deflection.

do we take them out of the country?

You know, these seem awfully like your own suggestions, not mine. Project much?

the numbers are fact, dearie... go do your homework. but I do know that not once have any of the trumptards done anything to control their angry white supremacist christian terrorists.

no... those "suggestions", are based on what is clear in the pathetic rants of the trump idolators.

but cute diversion.

LOL, but yet you didn't post the numbers. If they are fact as you claim, you'll post them. Or have a seat and admit you just lied to everyone in this thread.

But nice try

 

[jillian]

and how should that be done, idiot? do you take the internet away from angry men? if they did, you would be off-line permanently.

Hah! You have no grasp on this issue whatsoever, jillian. Though the internet is an effective medium for terrorists to spread their vile ideologies, it also spurs the like minded into action. I never said anything about "taking the internet away."

a lot more people have been killed by terrorism in this country since 9/11 by white christian terrorists.

Do you have stats or links to back that up? I'm not denying there are "White Christian terrorists" but am simply refusing to acknowledge the deflection.

do we take them out of the country?

You know, these seem awfully like your own suggestions, not mine. Project much?

the numbers are fact, dearie... go do your homework. but I do know that not once have any of the trumptards done anything to control their angry white supremacist christian terrorists.

no... those "suggestions", are based on what is clear in the pathetic rants of the trump idolators.

but cute diversion.

LOL, but yet you didn't post the numbers. If they are fact as you claim, you'll post them. Or have a seat and admit you just lied to everyone in this thread.

But nice try

As I said, feel free to google. I can't help it if you're lazy and incapable.

 

[TemplarKormac]

and how should that be done, idiot? do you take the internet away from angry men? if they did, you would be off-line permanently.

Hah! You have no grasp on this issue whatsoever, jillian. Though the internet is an effective medium for terrorists to spread their vile ideologies, it also spurs the like minded into action. I never said anything about "taking the internet away."

a lot more people have been killed by terrorism in this country since 9/11 by white christian terrorists.

Do you have stats or links to back that up? I'm not denying there are "White Christian terrorists" but am simply refusing to acknowledge the deflection.

do we take them out of the country?

You know, these seem awfully like your own suggestions, not mine. Project much?

the numbers are fact, dearie... go do your homework. but I do know that not once have any of the trumptards done anything to control their angry white supremacist christian terrorists.

no... those "suggestions", are based on what is clear in the pathetic rants of the trump idolators.

but cute diversion.

LOL, but yet you didn't post the numbers. If they are fact as you claim, you'll post them. Or have a seat and admit you just lied to everyone in this thread.

But nice try

As I said, feel free to google. I can't help it if you're lazy and incapable.

It isn't my job to prove your argument, jillian, you so called lawyer.

YOU are the one being lazy.

 

[jillian]

and how should that be done, idiot? do you take the internet away from angry men? if they did, you would be off-line permanently.

Hah! You have no grasp on this issue whatsoever, jillian. Though the internet is an effective medium for terrorists to spread their vile ideologies, it also spurs the like minded into action. I never said anything about "taking the internet away."

a lot more people have been killed by terrorism in this country since 9/11 by white christian terrorists.

Do you have stats or links to back that up? I'm not denying there are "White Christian terrorists" but am simply refusing to acknowledge the deflection.

do we take them out of the country?

You know, these seem awfully like your own suggestions, not mine. Project much?

the numbers are fact, dearie... go do your homework. but I do know that not once have any of the trumptards done anything to control their angry white supremacist christian terrorists.

no... those "suggestions", are based on what is clear in the pathetic rants of the trump idolators.

but cute diversion.

LOL, but yet you didn't post the numbers. If they are fact as you claim, you'll post them. Or have a seat and admit you just lied to everyone in this thread.

But nice try

As I said, feel free to google. I can't help it if you're lazy and incapable.

It isn't my job to prove your argument, jillian, you so called lawyer.

YOU are the one being lazy.

I stated fact that is not disputed anywhere. In other words it is generally known.

Not my job to educate ignorant trolls.

But thank you for reminding me why it was always pointless posting to you.

Weren't you gone?

 

[BlackSand]

The religion is in desperate need of a modern Reformation, but because it falls into the "oppressed" side of the Left's "Oppressed/Oppressor" template, they're just not going to say anything.

They're going to do what they do for ALL "oppressed" groups, and that is keep standards low, spin for it, refuse to hold it accountable, and as a result enable its worst behaviors - no matter what damage is caused.

It's just what they do.
.

I would be okay if they just said nothing ... But that isn't even what they do.
What they say is that it our fault the Islamic terrorists attack us in the first place.

.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I stated fact that is not disputed anywhere. In other words it is generally known.

No it's not. This is however an argumentative fallacy. Argument ad Populum.

If the fact is generally known, you wouldn't need google in order to state such a fact.

Your argument is invalid.

Not my job to educate ignorant trolls.

No, it's because you didn't have a valid argument against mine. And when you're caught in a bad argument, you try to shift the burden of proof on someone else. You're easy to read, jillian.

But thank you for reminding me why it was always pointless posting to you.

Ha! It's pointless because you keep losing.

Weren't you gone?

When did I say that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Does jillian have me on ignore yet? I hope so.