A few questions for the fundies

[hadit]

What God created was perfect until we messed it up

"We".... ?

Mankind.

Thats ridiculous. I am to be held to blame for the actions of others, thousands of years ago? How absurd.

Oh course not. You have plenty to be blamed for yourself.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What God created was perfect until we messed it up

"We".... ?

Mankind.

Thats ridiculous. I am to be held to blame for the actions of others, thousands of years ago? How absurd.

Oh course not. You have plenty to be blamed for yourself.

That doesnt make sense, as you already admitted that God made this decision before I existed. And what a nauseating view of humanity your religious paradigm has forced you to adopt....not humanism, but rather inhumanism. Not morality, but immorality.

 

[hadit]

You're refusing to acknowledge the bottom line, which is that the Creator has authority and responsibility that you do not.

Why should anyone acknowledge such an esoteric, extraordinary claim without a shred of good evidence? This is your problem, not his.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to the thread. He was trying to claim that God is evil because God has done things he thinks are wrong, but he doesn't want to admit that someone in authority can do things others cannot. God's existence isn't part of that argument, so I'm not delving any further into this.

 

[hadit]

What God created was perfect until we messed it up

"We".... ?

Mankind.

Thats ridiculous. I am to be held to blame for the actions of others, thousands of years ago? How absurd.

Oh course not. You have plenty to be blamed for yourself.

That doesnt make sense, as you already admitted that God made this decision before I existed. And what a nauseating view of humanity your religious paradigm has forced you to adopt....not humanism, but rather inhumanism. Not morality, but immorality.

Sin brought a curse on all of us. Want to blame someone, blame those who rebelled in the beginning.

 

[Taz]

So god was only carrying out someone else's order with the Flood? Whose?

Killing nearly all of humanity isn't murder in your book? WOW! Just WOW!!

Hitler and Stalin must be lightweights in your book.

Carrying out someone else's order? Whose order would you be carrying out if you killed someone while defending your home? You seriously need to read everything in my posts, not just the first few sentences. Come on, you're not even trying here.

Your first 2 examples where about authority telling the executioner and the soldier what to do.
So lets see about the 3rd example of the home invasion. So you're saying that god drowned nearly everyone because they were invading his space and he felt threatened with death? Really?

Now you're just being absurdly literal to avoid the truth of what I'm saying. You know exactly what I'm saying and you know it's true.

What I know to be true is that you can't find a proper analogy.

You're refusing to acknowledge the bottom line, which is that the Creator has authority and responsibility that you do not. You're quibbling over semantics.

You said that before, but now you're giving up trying to provide a proper explanation of why this is so? Do you know for sure that the creator doesn't have a superior? You have some bad analogies for that?

 

[Taz]

Ok, you're fine worshipping a mass murdering god. Nothing I can do about that. Interesting though how people can do that and claim the moral high ground at the same time. Quite the delusion!

Again, not all killing is murder, no matter how often you repeat your mantra. I worship a just God who does not allow sin to be ignored. To do otherwise is to not be just. And He is not accountable to you.

"I worship a just God who does not allow sin to be ignored", except his own sins, of which there are plenty.

And you still refuse to acknowledge that God has authority and responsibility you do not and imagine that you can hold Him accountable to your standard. The infant screams because he can't have the lollipop.

Sorta of like the Mafia Boss? He can do what he wants but others can't do like him or they die?

Except the Mafia Boss is human just like the humans under his control and God is much greater than any human. But of course any person in authority can do to others what they cannot do to him.

Be serious for a moment.

So god is like a mafia boss, who kills without consequence, only better because he's not human. Got it.

 

[jillian]

Sure, but be brief, and no copy&paste.

The bottom line is that we were never meant to live in a world of decay where our bodies fall apart. We were supposed to be in a place of perfection, but our rebellion cost us that perfection. Perversion happens despite what God wants, not because of it.

How do you know what god wants? And why should I be punished for something someone else did?

I know that what He created was perfect. You get punished because you are guilty as well.

So the baby that's born severely deformed and retarded is guilty of what exactly? And you call that perfect?

Do you even read what I write before erupting emotionally? What God created was perfect until we messed it up. I'll type this slowly. That means it's no longer perfect.

if what G-d created is perfect than what is done with what he created has to be what He intended.

can't have it both ways

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

but he doesn't want to admit that someone in authority can do things others cannot.

THAT's your argument to excuse the nasty, evil bullshit wrought by your gods? Did you pull that from the Kim Jong Un playbook? Or was it Hitler's?

 

[hadit]

Carrying out someone else's order? Whose order would you be carrying out if you killed someone while defending your home? You seriously need to read everything in my posts, not just the first few sentences. Come on, you're not even trying here.

Your first 2 examples where about authority telling the executioner and the soldier what to do.
So lets see about the 3rd example of the home invasion. So you're saying that god drowned nearly everyone because they were invading his space and he felt threatened with death? Really?

Now you're just being absurdly literal to avoid the truth of what I'm saying. You know exactly what I'm saying and you know it's true.

What I know to be true is that you can't find a proper analogy.

You're refusing to acknowledge the bottom line, which is that the Creator has authority and responsibility that you do not. You're quibbling over semantics.

You said that before, but now you're giving up trying to provide a proper explanation of why this is so? Do you know for sure that the creator doesn't have a superior? You have some bad analogies for that?

You will simply reject any explanation, as demonstrated by your deliberate refusal to acknowledge that someone with greater authority than you can do what you cannot. Until you do that, you will get nowhere.

 

[hadit]

Again, not all killing is murder, no matter how often you repeat your mantra. I worship a just God who does not allow sin to be ignored. To do otherwise is to not be just. And He is not accountable to you.

"I worship a just God who does not allow sin to be ignored", except his own sins, of which there are plenty.

And you still refuse to acknowledge that God has authority and responsibility you do not and imagine that you can hold Him accountable to your standard. The infant screams because he can't have the lollipop.

Sorta of like the Mafia Boss? He can do what he wants but others can't do like him or they die?

Except the Mafia Boss is human just like the humans under his control and God is much greater than any human. But of course any person in authority can do to others what they cannot do to him.

Be serious for a moment.

So god is like a mafia boss, who kills without consequence, only better because he's not human. Got it.

And you think I give bad analogies.

 

[hadit]

The bottom line is that we were never meant to live in a world of decay where our bodies fall apart. We were supposed to be in a place of perfection, but our rebellion cost us that perfection. Perversion happens despite what God wants, not because of it.

How do you know what god wants? And why should I be punished for something someone else did?

I know that what He created was perfect. You get punished because you are guilty as well.

So the baby that's born severely deformed and retarded is guilty of what exactly? And you call that perfect?

Do you even read what I write before erupting emotionally? What God created was perfect until we messed it up. I'll type this slowly. That means it's no longer perfect.

if what G-d created is perfect than what is done with what he created has to be what He intended.

can't have it both ways

He knew what we were going to do, yes. To say that is what He intended is to pretend to know the mind of God.

 

[Meriweather]

So the bible is fictional? What about god?

No.

He fictional in the bible as well?

No.

 

[hadit]

but he doesn't want to admit that someone in authority can do things others cannot.

THAT's your argument to excuse the nasty, evil bullshit wrought by your gods? Did you pull that from the Kim Jong Un playbook? Or was it Hitler's?

The child thinks his parents are evil when they don't let him have a lollypop. The motorist thinks the cop is evil who pulls him over for driving erratically, and on it goes.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

that someone with greater authority than you can do what you cannot

Nope, sorry, still not making sense. Any of us can kill babies , if we really want to do so.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The child thinks his parents are evil when they don't let him have a lollypop.

Not a good comparison....the child would not think that, if he understood reason. And, as it turns out, sometimes children can be reasoned with. You are demanding the opposite: SUSPENSION of reason and incredulity.

A more apt comparison would be to point to a child who understands that what his parents did was evil when they murdered the neighbor's baby, and then was asked to suspend his morality, reason and incredulity because "his parents have authority to do things he does not".

Nice try.

 

[Taz]

Your first 2 examples where about authority telling the executioner and the soldier what to do.
So lets see about the 3rd example of the home invasion. So you're saying that god drowned nearly everyone because they were invading his space and he felt threatened with death? Really?

Now you're just being absurdly literal to avoid the truth of what I'm saying. You know exactly what I'm saying and you know it's true.

What I know to be true is that you can't find a proper analogy.

You're refusing to acknowledge the bottom line, which is that the Creator has authority and responsibility that you do not. You're quibbling over semantics.

You said that before, but now you're giving up trying to provide a proper explanation of why this is so? Do you know for sure that the creator doesn't have a superior? You have some bad analogies for that?

You will simply reject any explanation, as demonstrated by your deliberate refusal to acknowledge that someone with greater authority than you can do what you cannot. Until you do that, you will get nowhere.

I've already agreed that there are people with greater authority than me. But they are still answerable to me. Like Trump, if I don'y like what he does, I can vote against him and help defeat him. You haven't shown that god isn't answerable to me or possible someone above him. If I don't like what your picture of god is with the bible and all that, I'll simply not believe in that god, which in a very minority position anyways. So god IS answerable to me.

Plus whatever Fort says.

 

[Taz]

How do you know what god wants? And why should I be punished for something someone else did?

I know that what He created was perfect. You get punished because you are guilty as well.

So the baby that's born severely deformed and retarded is guilty of what exactly? And you call that perfect?

Do you even read what I write before erupting emotionally? What God created was perfect until we messed it up. I'll type this slowly. That means it's no longer perfect.

if what G-d created is perfect than what is done with what he created has to be what He intended.

can't have it both ways

He knew what we were going to do, yes. To say that is what He intended is to pretend to know the mind of God.

You JUST said "He knew what we were going to do, yes". So YOU know the mind of god?

Or is it that "To say that is what He intended is to pretend to know the mind of God"?

Which is it?

 

[Taz]

So the bible is fictional? What about god?

No.

He fictional in the bible as well?

No.

You've just been arguing that the stories in the bible aren't real. That means "fictional". Or else clear up your position, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Meriweather]

You've just been arguing that the stories in the bible aren't real. That means "fictional". Or else clear up your position, you can't have it both ways.

I did not say they were not real. I said the accounts are stories. Back in that time, no newspapers, no encyclopedias, no text books, no internet. They had stories, some of which are now recorded.

My position: When I was little we used to visit Reservations in our area. The natives of that area made us welcome and shared their heritage with us. There were places on the Reservation that were entirely off limits, Holy Ground, sacred to the natives. We were taught no to stomp on another's Holy Ground.

The Bible is the Christian's Holy Ground. People should no more stomp on Christian (or Jewish) Holy Ground than they should enter a Reservation and stomp on Holy Ground of that place.

I am a Christian. The Bible is my Holy Ground. I am wondering why outsiders have the desire, or a need, to stomp all over it.

 

[hadit]

that someone with greater authority than you can do what you cannot

Nope, sorry, still not making sense. Any of us can kill babies , if we really want to do so.

If you saw your neighbor kill someone and you went next door, grabbed him and confined him to a room in your basement, then after a while injected him with poison that killed him, would you get in trouble?

Yet there are people who are authorized to do just that. Seize your neighbor, confine him and ultimately kill him.

Do you see it now?