A Green Beret get's it right about Kaepernick

[Pogo]

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

You're actually suggesting that our military consists of jingoistic puppets who sheepishly fall in with mob mentality in spite of their own oath to the Constitution huh.

Says a lot about what you think of the military. As if they're your political football tool. Amusing.

Look, as simple as this shit is for REAL Americans, people like you wouldn’t understand. It’s a long standing tradition for good, real, patriotic Americans to show respect during ANY flag ceremony and or national anthem. Good, legitimate Americans never even have to be reminded of this shit. This isn’t complicated, yet you, Mac1958 and all the other half-Americans struggle with it...FUCKING WEIRD!

Thank you for yet another demostration of State-sponsored Fetishism. I just covered that and, like clockwork, there it is yet again.

Look, I’m just letting you into the mind of a good, patriotic, real American that’s all...Spin your retard shit however you need to for justification of your twisted belief system...you don’t need our approval to continue your unAmerican antics...we’ll continue to point and laugh at you just as we always have.

Yep, covered that too. The public shaming includes getting beat up by one's classmates, loss of livelihood, being forced to kiss a flag or sing a song or raise a stiff-arm salute, and of course being sent to death camps, hard labor, the stake or the gallows should one refuse. Did all that in the aforementioned post 92 and its foundational setup, 89. So no thanks, I've already been in that hive mind, which is how I know it's a hive, and I've already shown what it leads to.

Try coming up with something not already covered.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

You're actually suggesting that our military consists of jingoistic puppets who sheepishly fall in with mob mentality in spite of their own oath to the Constitution huh.

Says a lot about what you think of the military. As if they're your political football tool. Amusing.

Look, as simple as this shit is for REAL Americans, people like you wouldn’t understand. It’s a long standing tradition for good, real, patriotic Americans to show respect during ANY flag ceremony and or national anthem. Good, legitimate Americans never even have to be reminded of this shit. This isn’t complicated, yet you, Mac1958 and all the other half-Americans struggle with it...FUCKING WEIRD!

Thank you for yet another demostration of State-sponsored Fetishism. I just covered that and, like clockwork, there it is yet again.

Look, I’m just letting you into the mind of a good, patriotic, real American that’s all...Spin your retard shit however you need to for justification of your twisted belief system...you don’t need our approval to continue your unAmerican antics...we’ll continue to point and laugh at you just as we always have.

Yep, covered that too. The public shaming includes getting beat up by one's classmates, loss of livelihood, being forced to kiss a flag or sing a song or raise a stiff-arm salute, and of course being sent to death camps, hard labor, the stake or the gallows should one refuse. Did all that in the aforementioned post 92 and its foundational setup, 89.

Try coming up with something not already covered.

You shame yourself with your constant biased and stupid posts.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

Really? Longknife on these boards is one of them. There are others on here as well.

And, if you don't believe what I posted, here is what the Oath of Enlistment looks like......................................

“I _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

ALL military personnel swear that oath upon enlisting, or reenlisting. I swore it 5 times over the 20 years I was in. Chances are that the reason you don't understand it is because you never swore it yourself nor were you schooled yearly on what it meant.

That looks and sounds noble as all hell....BUT, when you decided to go full LefTard and support the Mexicrat Party you kinda shit all over the Constitution didn’t you? So we kinda know how important that oath you took is to you...right?

 

[ABikerSailor]

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

Really? Longknife on these boards is one of them. There are others on here as well.

And, if you don't believe what I posted, here is what the Oath of Enlistment looks like......................................

“I _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

ALL military personnel swear that oath upon enlisting, or reenlisting. I swore it 5 times over the 20 years I was in. Chances are that the reason you don't understand it is because you never swore it yourself nor were you schooled yearly on what it meant.

That looks and sounds noble as all hell....BUT, when you decided to go full LefTard and support the Mexicrat Party you kinda shit all over the Constitution didn’t you? So we kinda know how important that oath you took is to you...right?

Hate to tell you, but I'm an Independent.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

Really? Longknife on these boards is one of them. There are others on here as well.

And, if you don't believe what I posted, here is what the Oath of Enlistment looks like......................................

“I _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

ALL military personnel swear that oath upon enlisting, or reenlisting. I swore it 5 times over the 20 years I was in. Chances are that the reason you don't understand it is because you never swore it yourself nor were you schooled yearly on what it meant.

That looks and sounds noble as all hell....BUT, when you decided to go full LefTard and support the Mexicrat Party you kinda shit all over the Constitution didn’t you? So we kinda know how important that oath you took is to you...right?

Hate to tell you, but I'm an Independent.

Not according to the context of your posts you’re not...,you’re a embarrassed Lefty that’s all.

 

[Pogo]

You're actually suggesting that our military consists of jingoistic puppets who sheepishly fall in with mob mentality in spite of their own oath to the Constitution huh.

Says a lot about what you think of the military. As if they're your political football tool. Amusing.

Look, as simple as this shit is for REAL Americans, people like you wouldn’t understand. It’s a long standing tradition for good, real, patriotic Americans to show respect during ANY flag ceremony and or national anthem. Good, legitimate Americans never even have to be reminded of this shit. This isn’t complicated, yet you, Mac1958 and all the other half-Americans struggle with it...FUCKING WEIRD!

Thank you for yet another demostration of State-sponsored Fetishism. I just covered that and, like clockwork, there it is yet again.

Look, I’m just letting you into the mind of a good, patriotic, real American that’s all...Spin your retard shit however you need to for justification of your twisted belief system...you don’t need our approval to continue your unAmerican antics...we’ll continue to point and laugh at you just as we always have.

Yep, covered that too. The public shaming includes getting beat up by one's classmates, loss of livelihood, being forced to kiss a flag or sing a song or raise a stiff-arm salute, and of course being sent to death camps, hard labor, the stake or the gallows should one refuse. Did all that in the aforementioned post 92 and its foundational setup, 89.

Try coming up with something not already covered.

You shame yourself with your constant biased and stupid posts.

"Horshak thinks for a minute.... and fires back,

'oh yeah well up your hole with a Mello Roll'".

Outstanding expenditure of brain synapse in this post above. Stupefying analysis of the points covered. Nay, devastating deconstruction of the bases of reasoning with lucid logic. My head swims in contemplative rush. Femtoseconds of work went into this post I can tell. Oh lucky us.

 

[Pogo]

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

Really? Longknife on these boards is one of them. There are others on here as well.

And, if you don't believe what I posted, here is what the Oath of Enlistment looks like......................................

“I _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

ALL military personnel swear that oath upon enlisting, or reenlisting. I swore it 5 times over the 20 years I was in. Chances are that the reason you don't understand it is because you never swore it yourself nor were you schooled yearly on what it meant.

That looks and sounds noble as all hell....BUT, when you decided to go full LefTard and support the Mexicrat Party you kinda shit all over the Constitution didn’t you? So we kinda know how important that oath you took is to you...right?

Hate to tell you, but I'm an Independent.

Not according to the context of your posts your not...,you’re a embarrassed Lefty that’s all.

Fine examples of sheep-shaming. The most obsequious sheep resent those who decline to follow the herd. Apparently independent thought outside the Borg is simply beyond their intellectual pay grade.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Look, as simple as this shit is for REAL Americans, people like you wouldn’t understand. It’s a long standing tradition for good, real, patriotic Americans to show respect during ANY flag ceremony and or national anthem. Good, legitimate Americans never even have to be reminded of this shit. This isn’t complicated, yet you, Mac1958 and all the other half-Americans struggle with it...FUCKING WEIRD!

Thank you for yet another demostration of State-sponsored Fetishism. I just covered that and, like clockwork, there it is yet again.

Look, I’m just letting you into the mind of a good, patriotic, real American that’s all...Spin your retard shit however you need to for justification of your twisted belief system...you don’t need our approval to continue your unAmerican antics...we’ll continue to point and laugh at you just as we always have.

Yep, covered that too. The public shaming includes getting beat up by one's classmates, loss of livelihood, being forced to kiss a flag or sing a song or raise a stiff-arm salute, and of course being sent to death camps, hard labor, the stake or the gallows should one refuse. Did all that in the aforementioned post 92 and its foundational setup, 89.

Try coming up with something not already covered.

You shame yourself with your constant biased and stupid posts.

"Horshak thinks for a minute.... and fires back,

'oh yeah well up your hole with a Mello Roll'".

Outstanding expenditure of brain synapse in this post above. Stupefying analysis of the points covered. Nay, devastating deconstruction of the bases of reasoning with lucid logic. My head swims in contemplative rush. Femtoseconds of work went into this post I can tell. Oh lucky us.

You could have just said "True, you got me".

Short and sweet.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Nate Boyer ex Green Beret says about Kaepernick - he is an example of an open mind not a small closed mind.
"I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in," Boyer wrote. "It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war."
He closed by promising to keep listening, with an open mind, about the protests.

"I look forward to the day you're once again inspired to stand during our national anthem," he wrote. "I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 1st Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

Yep mudwhisle I served as a Blue Beret and know that we do not support the mud rakes of this world so stand all you want, I don't buy it.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Nate Boyer ex Green Beret says about Kaepernick - he is an example of an open mind not a small closed mind.
"I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in," Boyer wrote. "It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war."
He closed by promising to keep listening, with an open mind, about the protests.

"I look forward to the day you're once again inspired to stand during our national anthem," he wrote. "I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying ... De Oppresso Liber."

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

I wonder why he only spent 6 years in the military. That's one enlistment. I did 5 in my first. I did 11 more after going to college.
I just wonder why he got out of the service if he was a Green Beret after only 6 years.
Strange

Hey I quit because they wanted me to serve under the UN command, and I'll be damm if I would serve under someone who was not a American.

 

[Borillar]

skin color has nothing to do with Kap's [ hahahahah ] courage
courage??!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
racism and combat are not even close--idiotic analogy

Racism and combat are not similar for those of diminished mental capacity.
The very clear point is if you have not experienced combat and if you have not experienced racism you will never fully understand either. Only idiots think they understand when they have not experienced themselves.

wrong!!
combat is real
a lot of this racism is stupid/PERCEIVED fake shit
99.9999% of the crap Kap is protesting is BULLSHIT
I've been over this before in other threads with many links/proof/etc

Yeah, it's all fake or perceived or stupid until you're on the receiving end of it.

 

[mudwhistle]

Nate Boyer ex Green Beret says about Kaepernick - he is an example of an open mind not a small closed mind.
"I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in," Boyer wrote. "It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war."
He closed by promising to keep listening, with an open mind, about the protests.

"I look forward to the day you're once again inspired to stand during our national anthem," he wrote. "I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying ... De Oppresso Liber."

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

I wonder why he only spent 6 years in the military. That's one enlistment. I did 5 in my first. I did 11 more after going to college.
I just wonder why he got out of the service if he was a Green Beret after only 6 years.
Strange

Hey I quit because they wanted me to serve under the UN command, and I'll be damm if I would serve under someone who was not a American.

I served under UNISOM in Somalia.
Clinton wanted us to have to answer to the Pakistani UN Commander. Thank God our Senate was Republican or we would have been fucked royally.

 

[ElmerMudd]

skin color has nothing to do with Kap's [ hahahahah ] courage
courage??!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
racism and combat are not even close--idiotic analogy

Racism and combat are not similar for those of diminished mental capacity.
The very clear point is if you have not experienced combat and if you have not experienced racism you will never fully understand either. Only idiots think they understand when they have not experienced themselves.

wrong!!
combat is real
a lot of this racism is stupid/PERCEIVED fake shit
99.9999% of the crap Kap is protesting is BULLSHIT
I've been over this before in other threads with many links/proof/etc

Harmonica is a very sorry example of a human. The words of a racist.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

Bikesailor, said like a real hero

 

[ElmerMudd]

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

We’ve done this befor bud...,NO military man I know EVER speaks like you do...NOT ONE.
As mudwhistle has said, you are suspect at best. I question the type of military man you were/are and I question if you are a military man at all. You just represent too small of a percentile to avoid being considered suspect.

You're actually suggesting that our military consists of jingoistic puppets who sheepishly fall in with mob mentality in spite of their own oath to the Constitution huh.

Says a lot about what you think of the military. As if they're your political football tool. Amusing.

Look, as simple as this shit is for REAL Americans, people like you wouldn’t understand. It’s a long standing tradition for good, real, patriotic Americans to show respect during ANY flag ceremony and or national anthem. Good, legitimate Americans never even have to be reminded of this shit. This isn’t complicated, yet you, Mac1958 and all the other half-Americans struggle with it...FUCKING WEIRD!

Brokeloser is a fool. He does not understand what our wonderful country is all about. He has the mentality of a good citizen of North Korea or Russia.

 

[harmonica]

skin color has nothing to do with Kap's [ hahahahah ] courage
courage??!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
racism and combat are not even close--idiotic analogy

Racism and combat are not similar for those of diminished mental capacity.
The very clear point is if you have not experienced combat and if you have not experienced racism you will never fully understand either. Only idiots think they understand when they have not experienced themselves.

wrong!!
combat is real
a lot of this racism is stupid/PERCEIVED fake shit
99.9999% of the crap Kap is protesting is BULLSHIT
I've been over this before in other threads with many links/proof/etc

Harmonica is a very sorry example of a human. The words of a racist.

prove that I'm a racist or you are full of crap
you dumbasses use that word so much, it means nothing now !!!hahahahah

 

[harmonica]

skin color has nothing to do with Kap's [ hahahahah ] courage
courage??!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
racism and combat are not even close--idiotic analogy

Racism and combat are not similar for those of diminished mental capacity.
The very clear point is if you have not experienced combat and if you have not experienced racism you will never fully understand either. Only idiots think they understand when they have not experienced themselves.

wrong!!
combat is real
a lot of this racism is stupid/PERCEIVED fake shit
99.9999% of the crap Kap is protesting is BULLSHIT
I've been over this before in other threads with many links/proof/etc

Yeah, it's all fake or perceived or stupid until you're on the receiving end of it.

all the ''white cop'' racist crap is bullshit lies
Starbucks racists crap bullshit
it has not and cannot be proven they are racially motivated
etc

 

[Correll]

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

The "issue" in question is whether someone is so disloyal to America that they can't just sit quietly during the anthem, but have to do the opposite of what is done to show loyalty.

Right now, as I call these kneelers anti-American pieces of shit, I am exercising my First Amendment right.

Do you want to "NOT JUDGE ME" for standing up for what I believe in?

Actually the issue is that your mind is so narrow that you can't see any interpretation outside your own simplistic dichotomy. To wit, you seem to believe parroting a jingoism exercise means "loyalty to America" and that's that --- unable to comprehend that a fetish worship has nothing to do with patriotism at all, and in fact is simply a tool to subjugate the masses to the State using a directed mob mentality.

No one wants to judge you for standing up if that's your preference. They just want the same consideration for theirs. No one is trying to coerce you to sit down, kneel or whatever. The only coercion is from your end. And that alone should tell you something.

Pogo, thank you for expanding on the normal answers, that your side has been giving in this argument.

Your answer is a lot deeper and more nuanced than normal, and is such a lot more revealing than most.

YOu are very harsh on the use of a symbol for a Patriotic Unity ritual, going so far as to call it a "fetish".

I will not play stupid, like so many here do, and pretend you are using it in the primary definition, ie a sexual one. That is an asshole move, and one I will not do to you.

This is the secondary definition.

fetish - Google Search

"
2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
"

Standing to show respect and loyalty to the flag, AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR, in no way is worshiping the flag, nor believing it has magical powers or in inhabited by a spirit.

That was unfair of you to say so.

There is a deep and dividing difference between conservatives and liberals. A number of them.

This is a matter that should be discussed.

It matters.

...So when we herd our children into a mob murmuring "I pledge allegiance to the flag", we are directing them to say a prayer to a fetish ---- to worship a material object. When we then punish those who refuse to participate in it, we are commanding fetish-worship under the authority of the State. And when we do that we have in effect State-mandated religion. And when we pass laws and/or social coercions to "respect" the idol and prescribe all manner of obsessive-compulsive laundry lists of how it can be folded, how it must be treated, etc, we are anthropomorphizing that fetish (idol), under pain of (again) State-sponsored blasphemy laws.

The flag is not a fetish, it is a symbol. We patriots do not believe it has magical powers. Stop being silly.

In order to establish blasphemy, you must first establish that the object in question is sacred. So if you pass laws (or social remedies) against blaspheming an object, you are by that act establishing that the object itself is sacred. And that's idolatry, or fetishism. Call it either one you like; it's the same thing but there's no way around the fact that that's what you're doing. Our particular law language tends to call it "desecration", perhaps to draw attention away from the more religious connotation of "blasphemy" so as to mask the presence of a State Religion, but again, "blasphemy" and "desecration" mean the same thing and both require a sacred object.

(And again if the flag is not considered "sacred" by the State --- then it cannot be 'desecrated' or 'blasphemed'. You can't "desecrate" for instance a lawn mower, as that object is not considered sacred. But scratch that 1957 mint-condition Corvette that your neighbor fawns over every day with his microfiber cloth, and you're getting into fetish-land again.)

But a symbol can be disrespected. And that is what this controversy is actually about.


Which is why you are desperately trying to pretend it is something else.

That's exactly why the Supreme Court ruled in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) that the State cannot command such a prayer -- after Jehovah's Witnesses objected to it as the State forcing them to disobey the second commandment, rendered variously as prohibiting the worship of graven images or as "thou shalt have no other gods before Me", which mean the same thing.

That decision was announced on Flag Day, June 14: Justice Robert Jackson wrote. “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds... If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

DO you think that patriotism is flourishing in our nation?


Do you think that it should?

What happens when the State does "prescribe what shall be orthodox"? What happens when the State, or worse its mob minions in its service for free such as those in this thread, yourself included, commands a "compulsory routine"?

The Jehovah's Witnesses had been fighting this battle for several years. When it was first brought to national attention:

>> Some vigilantes interpreted the Supreme Court’s decision as a signal that Jehovah’s Witnesses were traitors who might be linked to a network of Nazi spies and saboteurs. In Imperial, a town outside Pittsburgh, a mob descended on a small group of Witnesses and pummeled them mercilessly. One Witness was beaten unconscious, and those who fled were cornered by ax- and knife-wielding men riding the town’s fire truck as someone yelled, “Get the ropes! Bring the flag!” In Kennebunk, Maine, the Witnesses’ gathering place, Kingdom Hall, was ransacked and torched, and days of rioting ensued. In Litchfield, Ill., an angry crowd spread an American flag on the hood of a car and watched while a man repeatedly smashed the head of a Witness upon it. In Rockville, Md., Witnesses were assaulted across the street from the police station, while officers stood and watched. By the end of the year, the American Civil Liberties Union estimated that 1,500 Witnesses had been assaulted in 335 separate attacks. << -- History.net
​

At the same time in Germany Witnesses were also refusing the mandatory stiff-arm salute, and in response were banned and persecuted by Hitler. See more detail about this in my next post below. And I've related many times here the example of Earnest V. Starr who was beset by a mob who demanded he kiss the American flag --- again, the mandatory idol worship ---- and when Starr refused, HE, not the mob, was arrested, convicted and sentenced to hard labor. Again.... State-commanded idol worship, under threat of hard labor.

As a District Judge in the Starr case lucidly noted: "when, as here, [patriotism] descends to fanaticism, it is of the reprehensible quality of the religion that incited the massacre of St. Bartholomew, the tortures of the Inquisition, the fires of Smithfield, the scaffolds of Salem, and is equally cruel and murderous. In its name, as in that of Liberty, what crimes have been committed! In every age it, too, furnishes its heresyhunters and its witch burners, and it, too, is a favorite mask for hypocrisy, assuming a virtue which it haveth not. So the mobs mentioned were generally the chosen and last resort of the slacker, military and civil, the profiteer, and the enemy sympathizer, masquerading as superpatriots to divert attention from their real character".

THAT is where such mob mentality leads --- terrorism. These are the wages of zombies obeying orders unquestioningly to kill the infidels, to fire the sumbitches, to burn the witches, to "put them in their place".


Personally I'm not on board with planting seeds of terrorism and mob mentality. But by all means go ahead and make the case that whipping a mob into irrational emotional belligerence that bashes people's heads in or sends them to hard labor or death camps or a burning at the stake or a lynching, is somehow a "positive" thing.

ANy idea or movement can "descend" into fanaticism. This is not something that only happens with Patriotism.


BUT, your assumption that patriotism, ie "mob mentality" ALWAYS leads to such negative outcomes,


reveals what this is really about.


Liberals are against Patriotism, and Nationalism.


And they are supporting this expression of anti-Americanism, because they share it.


They are UNIVERSALISTS.

 

[Correll]

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

The "issue" in question is whether someone is so disloyal to America that they can't just sit quietly during the anthem, but have to do the opposite of what is done to show loyalty.

Right now, as I call these kneelers anti-American pieces of shit, I am exercising my First Amendment right.

Do you want to "NOT JUDGE ME" for standing up for what I believe in?

Actually the issue is that your mind is so narrow that you can't see any interpretation outside your own simplistic dichotomy. To wit, you seem to believe parroting a jingoism exercise means "loyalty to America" and that's that --- unable to comprehend that a fetish worship has nothing to do with patriotism at all, and in fact is simply a tool to subjugate the masses to the State using a directed mob mentality.

No one wants to judge you for standing up if that's your preference. They just want the same consideration for theirs. No one is trying to coerce you to sit down, kneel or whatever. The only coercion is from your end. And that alone should tell you something.

Pogo, thank you for expanding on the normal answers, that your side has been giving in this argument.

Your answer is a lot deeper and more nuanced than normal, and is such a lot more revealing than most.

YOu are very harsh on the use of a symbol for a Patriotic Unity ritual, going so far as to call it a "fetish".

I will not play stupid, like so many here do, and pretend you are using it in the primary definition, ie a sexual one. That is an asshole move, and one I will not do to you.

This is the secondary definition.

fetish - Google Search

"
2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
"

Standing to show respect and loyalty to the flag, AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR, in no way is worshiping the flag, nor believing it has magical powers or in inhabited by a spirit.

That was unfair of you to say so.

There is a deep and dividing difference between conservatives and liberals. A number of them.

This is a matter that should be discussed.

It matters.

The primary meaning of "fetish" is not a "sexual" one. The sexual connotation is a subset of the broader meaning of investing an inanimate object with imaginary sacred power. That power may be sexual, or it may be political, or it may be religious, all of which are subsets. Another term meaning the same thing would be idol; the biblical rendering would be "graven image". All of them involve an irrational invocation of some spirit power into some material object which exalts the object, thereby rendering the exalter subservient to it.

So when we herd our children into a mob murmuring "I pledge allegiance to the flag", we are directing them to say a prayer to a fetish ---- to worship a material object. When we then punish those who refuse to participate in it, we are commanding fetish-worship under the authority of the State. And when we do that we have in effect State-mandated religion. And when we pass laws and/or social coercions to "respect" the idol and prescribe all manner of obsessive-compulsive laundry lists of how it can be folded, how it must be treated, etc, we are anthropomorphizing that fetish (idol), under pain of (again) State-sponsored blasphemy laws.

In order to establish blasphemy, you must first establish that the object in question is sacred. So if you pass laws (or social remedies) against blaspheming an object, you are by that act establishing that the object itself is sacred. And that's idolatry, or fetishism. Call it either one you like; it's the same thing but there's no way around the fact that that's what you're doing. Our particular law language tends to call it "desecration", perhaps to draw attention away from the more religious connotation of "blasphemy" so as to mask the presence of a State Religion, but again, "blasphemy" and "desecration" mean the same thing and both require a sacred object.

(And again if the flag is not considered "sacred" by the State --- then it cannot be 'desecrated' or 'blasphemed'. You can't "desecrate" for instance a lawn mower, as that object is not considered sacred. But scratch that 1957 mint-condition Corvette that your neighbor fawns over every day with his microfiber cloth, and you're getting into fetish-land again.)

That's exactly why the Supreme Court ruled in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) that the State cannot command such a prayer -- after Jehovah's Witnesses objected to it as the State forcing them to disobey the second commandment, rendered variously as prohibiting the worship of graven images or as "thou shalt have no other gods before Me", which mean the same thing.

That decision was announced on Flag Day, June 14: Justice Robert Jackson wrote. “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds... If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

What happens when the State does "prescribe what shall be orthodox"?

The Jehovah's Witnesses had been fighting this battle for several years. When it was first brought to national attention:

>> Some vigilantes interpreted the Supreme Court’s decision as a signal that Jehovah’s Witnesses were traitors who might be linked to a network of Nazi spies and saboteurs. In Imperial, a town outside Pittsburgh, a mob descended on a small group of Witnesses and pummeled them mercilessly. One Witness was beaten unconscious, and those who fled were cornered by ax- and knife-wielding men riding the town’s fire truck as someone yelled, “Get the ropes! Bring the flag!” In Kennebunk, Maine, the Witnesses’ gathering place, Kingdom Hall, was ransacked and torched, and days of rioting ensued. In Litchfield, Ill., an angry crowd spread an American flag on the hood of a car and watched while a man repeatedly smashed the head of a Witness upon it. In Rockville, Md., Witnesses were assaulted across the street from the police station, while officers stood and watched. By the end of the year, the American Civil Liberties Union estimated that 1,500 Witnesses had been assaulted in 335 separate attacks. << -- History.net
​

At the same time in Germany Witnesses were also refusing the mandatory stiff-arm salute, and in response were banned and persecuted by Hitler. And I've related many times here the example of Earnest V. Starr who was beset by a mob who demanded he kiss the American flag --- again, the mandatory idol worship ---- and when Starr refused, HE, not the mob, was arrested, convicted and sentenced to hard labor. Again.... State-commanded idol worship, under threat of hard labor.

As a District Judge in the Starr case lucidly noted: "when, as here, [patriotism] descends to fanaticism, it is of the reprehensible quality of the religion that incited the massacre of St. Bartholomew, the tortures of the Inquisition, the fires of Smithfield, the scaffolds of Salem, and is equally cruel and murderous. In its name, as in that of Liberty, what crimes have been committed! In every age it, too, furnishes its heresyhunters and its witch burners, and it, too, is a favorite mask for hypocrisy, assuming a virtue which it haveth not. So the mobs mentioned were generally the chosen and last resort of the slacker, military and civil, the profiteer, and the enemy sympathizer, masquerading as superpatriots to divert attention from their real character".

THAT is where such mob mentality leads --- terrorism.

Personally I'm not on board with planting seeds of terrorism and mob mentality. But by all means go ahead and make the case that whipping a mob into irrational emotional belligerence that bashes people's heads in or sends them to hard labor or death camps or a burning at the stake or a lynching, is somehow a "positive" thing.

>> Children of Jehovah's Witnesses also suffered under the Nazi regime. In classrooms, teachers ridiculed children who refused to give the Heil Hitler salute or sing patriotic songs. Principals found reasons to expel them from school. Following the lead of adults, classmates shunned or beat the children of Witnesses. On occasion, authorities sought to remove children from their Witness parents and send them to other schools, orphanages, or private homes to be brought up as "good Germans".[3]

.... From 1933 [the year Hitler became Chancellor] Witnesses working in post offices, railway stations or other civil service jobs began to be dismissed for refusing to give the compulsory Hitler salute. From August 1934 they could also lose their jobs for refusing to take an official oath swearing loyalty and obedience to Hitler. Teachers were required to sign a statement confirming they were not members of the International Bible Students Association and were fired if they refused. Jehovah's Witnesses were dismissed in the private sector as well, often at the insistence of the German Labor Front (DAF) or Nazi Party members. In 1936 the Nazi press urged that Bible Students be removed from all German companies, while self-employed members of the group were denied professional or business licences to carry out their work on the basis that their refusal to join Nazi organizations marked them as "politically unreliable".[24]

The state confiscated motor vehicles and bicycles used by Witnesses for their business, withdrew driver's licences, withdrew pensions and evicted Witnesses from their homes. Schoolchildren were required to sing the Horst Wessel song and Deutschlandlied at a flag salute roll call, give the Hitler salute and take part in ceremonies honoring Hitler; those who refused were beaten by teachers and sometimes by classmates, while many were also expelled. From March 1936 authorities began removing Witness children from their parents, forcing some of them to undergo "corrective training".[25] --- Wiki: Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi Germany <<​

Sound familiar? It should.

​

When one is watching a puppet show, it's always instructive to look UP once in a while to see who's pulling those puppet strings ---- AND WHY THEY'RE DOING IT.

“The really dangerous American fascist... is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective, toward which all their deceit is directed, is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection." --- Henry Wallace, Vice President of the United States, April 9, 1944

You already made the point that you are concerned about Patriotism descending into Fascism.


Here is the crux of the matter.


Do you believe that Patriotism ALWAYS descends into Fascism?

 

[Correll]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

All good.


Now, as I am not arguing against their right to kneel, as their employers are supporting them,


that has nothing to do with the fact, that the kneelers have revealed themselves to be anti-American assholes.