A Green Beret get's it right about Kaepernick

[ABikerSailor]

I served over 20 years in the US Navy, from '82 to '02, and am now retired.

Every year for 2-3 days, the command would have a standdown (time when work was stopped for training), and it would be on Navy Rights and Responsibilities. Part of that training was going over the Oath of Enlistment, and the Constitution.

The oath read that I would support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

That also means that I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is free speech and the right to peaceful protest.

Does it piss me off as a retired military man who spent his whole adult life in service to this country? No, actually, I'm glad that Kaepernick felt secure enough in the rights that I and my fellow service members fought and served to protect to exercise them.

While I may not agree with what you have to say, as a patriotic American, I will defend to the death your right to say it.

 

[Pogo]

A Green Beret. Single. One out of how many? And speaking for all Green Berets...or military? I think not.

Where does anyone suggest that?

Looks like on my screen the title describes a singular.

Exactly. Singular. But the OP seems to take it as ALL.
Just sayin'.

The title says "a Green Beret" (singular), cites him as "an example" (singular) and refers to his subject in the third person as "he" (singular). Nothing in there suggests a Composition Fallacy at all. He got it exactly right. It's you who's trying to suggest an implication that isn't there.

This board is of course infamous for its rampant Composition Fallacies starring "Democrats", "Liberals", "conservatives", "Muslims", "Mexicans", "Christians", "Republicans", "Flyovers", "Hollywood", "gun nuts", "thugs", "Joooos", all lumped into a bullshit gravy poured copiously over weak arguments. This OP actually took pains to get it right and avoid that, and you're trying to pretend it didn't. Why can't you allow credit where due?

By the way Gracie that finger's been up in the air more than four hours so you should see your doctor.

Love ya Gracie.

 

[harmonica]

skin color has nothing to do with Kap's [ hahahahah ] courage
courage??!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
racism and combat are not even close--idiotic analogy

Racism and combat are not similar for those of diminished mental capacity.
The very clear point is if you have not experienced combat and if you have not experienced racism you will never fully understand either. Only idiots think they understand when they have not experienced themselves.

wrong!!
combat is real
a lot of this racism is stupid/PERCEIVED fake shit
99.9999% of the crap Kap is protesting is BULLSHIT
I've been over this before in other threads with many links/proof/etc

 

[Correll]

Definitely one of my favorite stories of the year.

It really is okay to listen to each other and change our minds on stuff.

No one is "judging them for standing up for what they believe in".


We are judging them on what they are doing, ie demonstrating anti-Americanism.


The vet in the OP, is just a fool suckered by a false narrative.

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

Since the "banner" in question is the American Flag, and since they did not just NOT "hail it", but, with their actions, ie kneeling, expressed the exact opposite of "hailing".


And I have no desire to force them to show something they do not feel. They feel the opposite of respect and loyalty to the nation and it's citizens.


I just think that it is wrong for US to show them respect and loyalty that they do not return.

 

[Correll]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

 

[Mac1958]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

 

[Correll]

Nate Boyer ex Green Beret says about Kaepernick - he is an example of an open mind not a small closed mind.
"I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in," Boyer wrote. "It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war."
He closed by promising to keep listening, with an open mind, about the protests.

"I look forward to the day you're once again inspired to stand during our national anthem," he wrote. "I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying ... De Oppresso Liber."

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

The "issue" in question is whether someone is so disloyal to America that they can't just sit quietly during the anthem, but have to do the opposite of what is done to show loyalty.

Right now, as I call these kneelers anti-American pieces of shit, I am exercising my First Amendment right.

Do you want to "NOT JUDGE ME" for standing up for what I believe in?

Actually the issue is that your mind is so narrow that you can't see any interpretation outside your own simplistic dichotomy. To wit, you seem to believe parroting a jingoism exercise means "loyalty to America" and that's that --- unable to comprehend that a fetish worship has nothing to do with patriotism at all, and in fact is simply a tool to subjugate the masses to the State using a directed mob mentality.

No one wants to judge you for standing up if that's your preference. They just want the same consideration for theirs. No one is trying to coerce you to sit down, kneel or whatever. The only coercion is from your end. And that alone should tell you something.

Pogo, thank you for expanding on the normal answers, that your side has been giving in this argument.


Your answer is a lot deeper and more nuanced than normal, and is such a lot more revealing than most.


YOu are very harsh on the use of a symbol for a Patriotic Unity ritual, going so far as to call it a "fetish".


I will not play stupid, like so many here do, and pretend you are using it in the primary definition, ie a sexual one. That is an asshole move, and one I will not do to you.


This is the secondary definition.


fetish - Google Search

"
2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
"


Standing to show respect and loyalty to the flag, AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR, in no way is worshiping the flag, nor believing it has magical powers or in inhabited by a spirit.



That was unfair of you to say so.


There is a deep and dividing difference between conservatives and liberals. A number of them.


This is a matter that should be discussed.



It matters.

 

[Correll]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

If I shit on your lawn, and tell you it's not about shitting on your lawn, it's about the injustice of society,


will you buy that?

 

[Pogo]

Nate Boyer ex Green Beret says about Kaepernick - he is an example of an open mind not a small closed mind.
"I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in," Boyer wrote. "It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war."
He closed by promising to keep listening, with an open mind, about the protests.

"I look forward to the day you're once again inspired to stand during our national anthem," he wrote. "I'll be standing right there next to you. Keep on trying ... De Oppresso Liber."

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

The "issue" in question is whether someone is so disloyal to America that they can't just sit quietly during the anthem, but have to do the opposite of what is done to show loyalty.

Right now, as I call these kneelers anti-American pieces of shit, I am exercising my First Amendment right.

Do you want to "NOT JUDGE ME" for standing up for what I believe in?

Actually the issue is that your mind is so narrow that you can't see any interpretation outside your own simplistic dichotomy. To wit, you seem to believe parroting a jingoism exercise means "loyalty to America" and that's that --- unable to comprehend that a fetish worship has nothing to do with patriotism at all, and in fact is simply a tool to subjugate the masses to the State using a directed mob mentality.

No one wants to judge you for standing up if that's your preference. They just want the same consideration for theirs. No one is trying to coerce you to sit down, kneel or whatever. The only coercion is from your end. And that alone should tell you something.

Pogo, thank you for expanding on the normal answers, that your side has been giving in this argument.

Your answer is a lot deeper and more nuanced than normal, and is such a lot more revealing than most.

YOu are very harsh on the use of a symbol for a Patriotic Unity ritual, going so far as to call it a "fetish".

I will not play stupid, like so many here do, and pretend you are using it in the primary definition, ie a sexual one. That is an asshole move, and one I will not do to you.

This is the secondary definition.

fetish - Google Search

"
2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
"

Standing to show respect and loyalty to the flag, AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR, in no way is worshiping the flag, nor believing it has magical powers or in inhabited by a spirit.

That was unfair of you to say so.

There is a deep and dividing difference between conservatives and liberals. A number of them.

This is a matter that should be discussed.

It matters.

The primary meaning of "fetish" is not a "sexual" one. The sexual connotation is a subset of the broader meaning of investing an inanimate object with imaginary sacred power. That power may be sexual, or it may be political, or it may be religious, all of which are subsets. Another term meaning the same thing would be idol; the biblical rendering would be "graven image". All of them involve an irrational invocation of some spirit power into some material object which exalts the object, thereby rendering the exalter subservient to it.

So when we herd our children into a mob murmuring "I pledge allegiance to the flag", we are directing them to say a prayer to a fetish ---- to worship a material object. When we then punish those who refuse to participate in it, we are commanding fetish-worship under the authority of the State. And when we do that we have in effect State-mandated religion. And when we pass laws and/or social coercions to "respect" the idol and prescribe all manner of obsessive-compulsive laundry lists of how it can be folded, how it must be treated, etc, we are anthropomorphizing that fetish (idol), under pain of (again) State-sponsored blasphemy laws.

In order to establish blasphemy, you must first establish that the object in question is sacred. So if you pass laws (or social remedies) against blaspheming an object, you are by that act establishing that the object itself is sacred. And that's idolatry, or fetishism. Call it either one you like; it's the same thing but there's no way around the fact that that's what you're doing. Our particular law language tends to call it "desecration", perhaps to draw attention away from the more religious connotation of "blasphemy" so as to mask the presence of a State Religion, but again, "blasphemy" and "desecration" mean the same thing and both require a sacred object.

(And again if the flag is not considered "sacred" by the State --- then it cannot be 'desecrated' or 'blasphemed'. You can't "desecrate" for instance a lawn mower, as that object is not considered sacred. But scratch that 1957 mint-condition Corvette that your neighbor fawns over every day with his microfiber cloth, and you're getting into fetish-land again.)

That's exactly why the Supreme Court ruled in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) that the State cannot command such a prayer -- after Jehovah's Witnesses objected to it as the State forcing them to disobey the second commandment, rendered variously as prohibiting the worship of graven images or as "thou shalt have no other gods before Me", which mean the same thing.

That decision was announced on Flag Day, June 14: Justice Robert Jackson wrote. “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds... If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

What happens when the State does "prescribe what shall be orthodox"? What happens when the State, or worse its mob minions in its service for free such as those in this thread, yourself included, commands a "compulsory routine"?

The Jehovah's Witnesses had been fighting this battle for several years. When it was first brought to national attention:

>> Some vigilantes interpreted the Supreme Court’s decision as a signal that Jehovah’s Witnesses were traitors who might be linked to a network of Nazi spies and saboteurs. In Imperial, a town outside Pittsburgh, a mob descended on a small group of Witnesses and pummeled them mercilessly. One Witness was beaten unconscious, and those who fled were cornered by ax- and knife-wielding men riding the town’s fire truck as someone yelled, “Get the ropes! Bring the flag!” In Kennebunk, Maine, the Witnesses’ gathering place, Kingdom Hall, was ransacked and torched, and days of rioting ensued. In Litchfield, Ill., an angry crowd spread an American flag on the hood of a car and watched while a man repeatedly smashed the head of a Witness upon it. In Rockville, Md., Witnesses were assaulted across the street from the police station, while officers stood and watched. By the end of the year, the American Civil Liberties Union estimated that 1,500 Witnesses had been assaulted in 335 separate attacks. << -- History.net
​

At the same time in Germany Witnesses were also refusing the mandatory stiff-arm salute, and in response were banned and persecuted by Hitler. See more detail about this in my next post below. And I've related many times here the example of Earnest V. Starr who was beset by a mob who demanded he kiss the American flag --- again, the mandatory idol worship ---- and when Starr refused, HE, not the mob, was arrested, convicted and sentenced to hard labor. Again.... State-commanded idol worship, under threat of hard labor.

As a District Judge in the Starr case lucidly noted: "when, as here, [patriotism] descends to fanaticism, it is of the reprehensible quality of the religion that incited the massacre of St. Bartholomew, the tortures of the Inquisition, the fires of Smithfield, the scaffolds of Salem, and is equally cruel and murderous. In its name, as in that of Liberty, what crimes have been committed! In every age it, too, furnishes its heresyhunters and its witch burners, and it, too, is a favorite mask for hypocrisy, assuming a virtue which it haveth not. So the mobs mentioned were generally the chosen and last resort of the slacker, military and civil, the profiteer, and the enemy sympathizer, masquerading as superpatriots to divert attention from their real character".

THAT is where such mob mentality leads --- terrorism. These are the wages of zombies obeying orders unquestioningly to kill the infidels, to fire the sumbitches, to burn the witches, to "put them in their place".

Personally I'm not on board with planting seeds of terrorism and mob mentality. But by all means go ahead and make the case that whipping a mob into irrational emotional belligerence that bashes people's heads in or sends them to hard labor or death camps or a burning at the stake or a lynching, is somehow a "positive" thing.

 

[Mac1958]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

If I shit on your lawn, and tell you it's not about shitting on your lawn, it's about the injustice of society,


will you buy that?

Holy crap, I didn't realize Kaepernick had committed trespassing and defiled your personal property.

I thought he was just silently and peacefully making a statement on something important to him, in public.

Wow, since that's the case, I sure can see why you'd want to deflect from the reason he did this.

Or something, who knows.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

 

[Pogo]

Pretty strange.
He only served 6 years. I spent almost that amount of time on a team alone. It took me 7 years just to qualify to be considered for selection. I guess he was one of those Green Beret babies that never had to go through earning SGT stripes before qualifying. I noticed one of his pictures that he was wearing a 3rd Group Flash on his beret.
Course....most guys on the teams would probably pack his shit and dump it outside of the teamroom and change the locks, essentially kicking him off the team for siding with Kaepernick.

He is one that will not trash you just because you both do not agree on an issue.
Thank you for your service.
But you reaction about another Green Beret says lot's about you.

The "issue" in question is whether someone is so disloyal to America that they can't just sit quietly during the anthem, but have to do the opposite of what is done to show loyalty.

Right now, as I call these kneelers anti-American pieces of shit, I am exercising my First Amendment right.

Do you want to "NOT JUDGE ME" for standing up for what I believe in?

Actually the issue is that your mind is so narrow that you can't see any interpretation outside your own simplistic dichotomy. To wit, you seem to believe parroting a jingoism exercise means "loyalty to America" and that's that --- unable to comprehend that a fetish worship has nothing to do with patriotism at all, and in fact is simply a tool to subjugate the masses to the State using a directed mob mentality.

No one wants to judge you for standing up if that's your preference. They just want the same consideration for theirs. No one is trying to coerce you to sit down, kneel or whatever. The only coercion is from your end. And that alone should tell you something.

Pogo, thank you for expanding on the normal answers, that your side has been giving in this argument.

Your answer is a lot deeper and more nuanced than normal, and is such a lot more revealing than most.

YOu are very harsh on the use of a symbol for a Patriotic Unity ritual, going so far as to call it a "fetish".

I will not play stupid, like so many here do, and pretend you are using it in the primary definition, ie a sexual one. That is an asshole move, and one I will not do to you.

This is the secondary definition.

fetish - Google Search

"
2.
an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
"

Standing to show respect and loyalty to the flag, AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR, in no way is worshiping the flag, nor believing it has magical powers or in inhabited by a spirit.

That was unfair of you to say so.

There is a deep and dividing difference between conservatives and liberals. A number of them.

This is a matter that should be discussed.

It matters.

The primary meaning of "fetish" is not a "sexual" one. The sexual connotation is a subset of the broader meaning of investing an inanimate object with imaginary sacred power. That power may be sexual, or it may be political, or it may be religious, all of which are subsets. Another term meaning the same thing would be idol; the biblical rendering would be "graven image". All of them involve an irrational invocation of some spirit power into some material object which exalts the object, thereby rendering the exalter subservient to it.

So when we herd our children into a mob murmuring "I pledge allegiance to the flag", we are directing them to say a prayer to a fetish ---- to worship a material object. When we then punish those who refuse to participate in it, we are commanding fetish-worship under the authority of the State. And when we do that we have in effect State-mandated religion. And when we pass laws and/or social coercions to "respect" the idol and prescribe all manner of obsessive-compulsive laundry lists of how it can be folded, how it must be treated, etc, we are anthropomorphizing that fetish (idol), under pain of (again) State-sponsored blasphemy laws.

In order to establish blasphemy, you must first establish that the object in question is sacred. So if you pass laws (or social remedies) against blaspheming an object, you are by that act establishing that the object itself is sacred. And that's idolatry, or fetishism. Call it either one you like; it's the same thing but there's no way around the fact that that's what you're doing. Our particular law language tends to call it "desecration", perhaps to draw attention away from the more religious connotation of "blasphemy" so as to mask the presence of a State Religion, but again, "blasphemy" and "desecration" mean the same thing and both require a sacred object.

(And again if the flag is not considered "sacred" by the State --- then it cannot be 'desecrated' or 'blasphemed'. You can't "desecrate" for instance a lawn mower, as that object is not considered sacred. But scratch that 1957 mint-condition Corvette that your neighbor fawns over every day with his microfiber cloth, and you're getting into fetish-land again.)

That's exactly why the Supreme Court ruled in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) that the State cannot command such a prayer -- after Jehovah's Witnesses objected to it as the State forcing them to disobey the second commandment, rendered variously as prohibiting the worship of graven images or as "thou shalt have no other gods before Me", which mean the same thing.

That decision was announced on Flag Day, June 14: Justice Robert Jackson wrote. “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds... If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

What happens when the State does "prescribe what shall be orthodox"?

The Jehovah's Witnesses had been fighting this battle for several years. When it was first brought to national attention:

>> Some vigilantes interpreted the Supreme Court’s decision as a signal that Jehovah’s Witnesses were traitors who might be linked to a network of Nazi spies and saboteurs. In Imperial, a town outside Pittsburgh, a mob descended on a small group of Witnesses and pummeled them mercilessly. One Witness was beaten unconscious, and those who fled were cornered by ax- and knife-wielding men riding the town’s fire truck as someone yelled, “Get the ropes! Bring the flag!” In Kennebunk, Maine, the Witnesses’ gathering place, Kingdom Hall, was ransacked and torched, and days of rioting ensued. In Litchfield, Ill., an angry crowd spread an American flag on the hood of a car and watched while a man repeatedly smashed the head of a Witness upon it. In Rockville, Md., Witnesses were assaulted across the street from the police station, while officers stood and watched. By the end of the year, the American Civil Liberties Union estimated that 1,500 Witnesses had been assaulted in 335 separate attacks. << -- History.net
​

At the same time in Germany Witnesses were also refusing the mandatory stiff-arm salute, and in response were banned and persecuted by Hitler. And I've related many times here the example of Earnest V. Starr who was beset by a mob who demanded he kiss the American flag --- again, the mandatory idol worship ---- and when Starr refused, HE, not the mob, was arrested, convicted and sentenced to hard labor. Again.... State-commanded idol worship, under threat of hard labor.

As a District Judge in the Starr case lucidly noted: "when, as here, [patriotism] descends to fanaticism, it is of the reprehensible quality of the religion that incited the massacre of St. Bartholomew, the tortures of the Inquisition, the fires of Smithfield, the scaffolds of Salem, and is equally cruel and murderous. In its name, as in that of Liberty, what crimes have been committed! In every age it, too, furnishes its heresyhunters and its witch burners, and it, too, is a favorite mask for hypocrisy, assuming a virtue which it haveth not. So the mobs mentioned were generally the chosen and last resort of the slacker, military and civil, the profiteer, and the enemy sympathizer, masquerading as superpatriots to divert attention from their real character".

THAT is where such mob mentality leads --- terrorism.

Personally I'm not on board with planting seeds of terrorism and mob mentality. But by all means go ahead and make the case that whipping a mob into irrational emotional belligerence that bashes people's heads in or sends them to hard labor or death camps or a burning at the stake or a lynching, is somehow a "positive" thing.

>> Children of Jehovah's Witnesses also suffered under the Nazi regime. In classrooms, teachers ridiculed children who refused to give the Heil Hitler salute or sing patriotic songs. Principals found reasons to expel them from school. Following the lead of adults, classmates shunned or beat the children of Witnesses. On occasion, authorities sought to remove children from their Witness parents and send them to other schools, orphanages, or private homes to be brought up as "good Germans".[3]

.... From 1933 [the year Hitler became Chancellor] Witnesses working in post offices, railway stations or other civil service jobs began to be dismissed for refusing to give the compulsory Hitler salute. From August 1934 they could also lose their jobs for refusing to take an official oath swearing loyalty and obedience to Hitler. Teachers were required to sign a statement confirming they were not members of the International Bible Students Association and were fired if they refused. Jehovah's Witnesses were dismissed in the private sector as well, often at the insistence of the German Labor Front (DAF) or Nazi Party members. In 1936 the Nazi press urged that Bible Students be removed from all German companies, while self-employed members of the group were denied professional or business licences to carry out their work on the basis that their refusal to join Nazi organizations marked them as "politically unreliable".[24]

The state confiscated motor vehicles and bicycles used by Witnesses for their business, withdrew driver's licences, withdrew pensions and evicted Witnesses from their homes. Schoolchildren were required to sing the Horst Wessel song and Deutschlandlied at a flag salute roll call, give the Hitler salute and take part in ceremonies honoring Hitler; those who refused were beaten by teachers and sometimes by classmates, while many were also expelled. From March 1936 authorities began removing Witness children from their parents, forcing some of them to undergo "corrective training".[25] --- Wiki: Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi Germany <<​

Sound familiar? It should.

​

When one is watching a puppet show, it's always instructive to look UP once in a while to see who's pulling those puppet strings ---- AND WHY THEY'RE DOING IT.

“The really dangerous American fascist... is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective, toward which all their deceit is directed, is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection." --- Henry Wallace, Vice President of the United States, April 9, 1944

 

[ABikerSailor]

Interestingly enough, with all the political division that is in this country, there is a new movie coming out called The Oath.

Seems that it's about having Americans sign a "patriots oath" the day after Thanksgiving.

I wonder if Trump is going to get ideas from this movie?

'The Oath' Red-Band Trailer: Thanksgiving Drama Takes a Violent Turn

When it comes to political divisiveness in America’s households, The Oath takes things to the extreme. As we wrote when the film’s first teaser trailer was released, The Oath — written, directed by and starring Ike Barinholtz — takes place in the aftermath of the White House asking Americans to sign a loyalty oath to the President, with the deadline being the day after Thanksgiving. Naturally, Thanksgiving dinners across the country are sure to be pretty divisive (to say the least) over the issue.

 

[Mac1958]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

They'd bitch and moan, just like you guys are.

The two ends are very similar in their behaviors.

Easiest question I'll get all day, thanks.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

They'd bitch and moan, just like you guys are.

The two ends are very similar in their behaviors.

Easiest question I'll get all day, thanks.
.

They’d “bitch and moan” you’re exactly right..and quess what; you’d be right there telling us how wrong we are for choosing to hold said protest on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo. Right?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

 

[longknife]

Since when is having the freedom to choice as opposed to being FORCED to hail a banner anti-Americanism?

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

I spent my entire adult life in the military (20 years). I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

That means I support and defend what is contained in that document, and part of that is defending and supporting free speech and peaceful protest, both of which are contained in the Constitution. Every year, we would stand down for a couple of days (stop work for training), and go over our rights as military personnel in a class called Navy Rights and Responsibilities. One of the main subjects of discussion was what was and wasn't allowed for us under the 1st Amendment, because we had certain restrictions placed on us. One of them was you were not allowed to go to a political rally for a specific candidate in uniform, as it would be perceived by the civilian community as an endorsement from our service for that person. We went over it a lot.

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

 

[Mac1958]

When you're trying to deflect from and avoid discussing the reason for exercising freedom of choice and kneeling.
.

I'm not afraid of discussing the issue that Kaerpernick raised. I've done so often here, and will do so many times in the future.



This is about what they and libs in general, have revealed about themselves with their support of the idea that disrespecting the flag, and the nation it stands for, is a valid method of expression.

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is not about the flag, this is not about the military, this is not about the anthem.

I can't get through to you on this. So I'll just watch.
.

Oh but it is about the flag...and all sane people know this. There is another 23 hours and 55 minutes on Sunday...protests do not need to be held during the five minutes of a display of patriotism. ALL good Americans understand this in total clarity...If you can’t, you might be half American.
Smart protesters hoping to be effective should always consider the “time and place” of a protest. The problem is; in this case the protest was spearheaded by ignorant, low iQ filth who forgot to consider the details.
Consider this....
What if good Americans were to protest welfare dependency and criminality on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo ONLY. Would the TIMING be in poor taste? How well received and effective would said protest be amongst some ‘groups’?
I’ve noticed this question terrifies the shit out of Lefties...maybe with you being 3/4 Lefty you’ll be willing to tackle it?

They'd bitch and moan, just like you guys are.

The two ends are very similar in their behaviors.

Easiest question I'll get all day, thanks.
.

They’d “bitch and moan” you’re exactly right..and quess what; you’d be right there telling us how wrong we are for choosing to hold said protest on MLK Day and Cinco De Mayo. Right?

Well, no, unlike you wingers, I believe in freedom of expression for all. Further, if I don't like it, that's just tough shit for me. Freedom of expression is about words you don't like. So I would make no effort to stop them or punish them or shout them down.

I realize how those of us who think for ourselves leave people like you completely flummoxed, but I'm afraid there's not much I can do about that.
.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Exactly Mac. I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

 

[Mac1958]

With that being said, I'm glad that Kaepernick and all the other NFL players who choose to take a knee during the anthem feel secure enough in the rights that were fought for and defended by myself and my fellow military personnel to exercise them.

Well put.

I think this makes you a Hitler Nazi Stalinist North Korean Fascist commie. Just for the record.


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