A 'mass murder in the Mediterranean' leaves nearly 450 lost at sea

[Coyote]

...Actually the real question is this. Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread? Unfucking believable.

After seeing one's first two or three dozen threads about poor people and families getting killed - especially when people with agendas bring them up in the first place or exploit the situation in order to advance their own political agendas, the tendency is to grow numb, and skip the emotional aspects, and argue fact, and policy.

So are you saying that you don't think the human trafficking of people desperate to escape horrendous situations bears the need for scrutiny or justice?

 

[ChrisL]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

More than that, she gives her compassion and tries to give ours too without bothering to ask us. She'd give her compassion and then force Italy to give too.

I have a very hard time with compassion for them. I have more compassion for the Israelis who have been dealing with them for YEARS.

 

[Coyote]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

More than that, she gives her compassion and tries to give ours too without bothering to ask us. She'd give her compassion and then force Italy to give too.

I have a very hard time with compassion for them. I have more compassion for the Israelis who have been dealing with them for YEARS.

Everyone is an individual. Even Israeli's commit murder.

 

[SAYIT]

It's not even just Palestinians - it's a huge commercial enterprise preying on desperate people and getting rich on it and getting away with murder.

Italy s decision to end Mare Nostrum will put the lives of thousands of migrants and refugees at risk - Letters - Voices - The Independent

The whole region is in disarray, the Arab Spring having brought only chaos, disaster and war, but there is still money to be made along the Mediterranean’s war-torn coast.

What desire do the Yazidis of Iraq and the Palestinians of Gaza share with millions of Syrians and practically the entire remaining populations of Somalia and Eritrea? The desire to get out. To leave the destruction, poverty, fanaticism and war as far behind as possible. Heading almost anywhere, as long as it is north.

So for those who can provide the service – the people-traffickers of Libya in particular – business is booming as never before. Their customers pay at least $2,000 (£1,250) for the passage, and often much more. It’s a business worth $1bn a year, according to a recent estimate. A complex and well-oiled network transports the would-be migrants from the tunnels of Gaza, the suburbs of Tripoli and the many other places from which they emerge after long, gruelling journeys to the port of Zuwara, a couple of hours’ drive west from Tripoli on the road to the Tunisian border.

Zuwara has been a centre of the trade for many years. When I visited it a few years back, the docks rang to the sound of hammers as crude wooden boats were bashed into shape. There was no need for the boats to be other than crude: they were only meant for a single one-way voyage, if that. Mercedes cars and shops stacked with high-end liquor and chocolates hinted at the wealth of the local residents.

Assuming the $1bil figure is correct, at $2500/person that is 40,000 making their escape per yr. Someone posted an estimated 3000 lost their lives last year meaning some 37,000 surviving the trip. Tragic for those who didn't make it but good for those who did and hopefully they will make something of the opportunity.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It's not even just Palestinians - it's a huge commercial enterprise preying on desperate people and getting rich on it and getting away with murder.

Italy s decision to end Mare Nostrum will put the lives of thousands of migrants and refugees at risk - Letters - Voices - The Independent

The whole region is in disarray, the Arab Spring having brought only chaos, disaster and war, but there is still money to be made along the Mediterranean’s war-torn coast.

What desire do the Yazidis of Iraq and the Palestinians of Gaza share with millions of Syrians and practically the entire remaining populations of Somalia and Eritrea? The desire to get out. To leave the destruction, poverty, fanaticism and war as far behind as possible. Heading almost anywhere, as long as it is north.

So for those who can provide the service – the people-traffickers of Libya in particular – business is booming as never before. Their customers pay at least $2,000 (£1,250) for the passage, and often much more. It’s a business worth $1bn a year, according to a recent estimate. A complex and well-oiled network transports the would-be migrants from the tunnels of Gaza, the suburbs of Tripoli and the many other places from which they emerge after long, gruelling journeys to the port of Zuwara, a couple of hours’ drive west from Tripoli on the road to the Tunisian border.

Zuwara has been a centre of the trade for many years. When I visited it a few years back, the docks rang to the sound of hammers as crude wooden boats were bashed into shape. There was no need for the boats to be other than crude: they were only meant for a single one-way voyage, if that. Mercedes cars and shops stacked with high-end liquor and chocolates hinted at the wealth of the local residents.

It's not Italy's problem. This is what Spain and Greece and Italy deal with.

No wonder the 1970s The Camp of the Saints is once again a best-seller:

The Camp of the Saints (Le Camp des saints) is a 1973 French apocalyptic novel by Jean Raspail. The novel depicts a hypothetical setting whereby Third World mass immigration to France and the West led to the destruction of Western civilization. It sparked controversial reactions ranging from prophetic to discriminatory. Almost forty years after publication the book returned to the bestseller list in 2011.[1]​

 

[Rikurzhen]

...Actually the real question is this. Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread? Unfucking believable.

After seeing one's first two or three dozen threads about poor people and families getting killed - especially when people with agendas bring them up in the first place or exploit the situation in order to advance their own political agendas, the tendency is to grow numb, and skip the emotional aspects, and argue fact, and policy.

So are you saying that you don't think the human trafficking of people desperate to escape horrendous situations bears the need for scrutiny or justice?

I'm with you. Let's stop human trafficking. I have no objection. That was my original point, that man should have stayed in his own nation instead of becoming a criminal.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The sheer level of hate and bigotry being presented here is mind boggling.

I'm done with this thread.

You certainly do post a lot for somebody who is done with a thread.

I have found over the years that I am considered more credible for keeping my word.

 

[ChrisL]

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

If ALL Liberals were as sensible as ChrisL, this country would be a smooth running nation and most everyone would be looking forward to an optimistic future as a united people.

I'm not really a liberal, but thanks for the compliment.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here's a fundamental problem that liberals just don't want to deal with. In public schooling liberal reformers have long known that there is a tonic effect from white majority on black and Hispanic minority students who benefit from being pulled out of concentrated black/Hispanic schools and dispersed into overwhelmingly white schools.

This same effect is seen in neighborhoods, majority white neighborhoods are nicer and safer places to live than majority black neighborhoods, REGARDLESS OF INCOME.

Same with workplaces. Same with hospitals. Same with everything. A big dose of whiteness is a good dysfunction remover for minorities.

The problem is that we're running low on whites in society. We can't spread whites around too much or we lose the tonic effect.

When we import massive amounts of Third World people we swamp the tonic effect created by whites and when whites are too few then the West will become like the Third World because, after all, a society is based on its people, and when the West is dominated by Third Worlders, then the West will be sliding towards Third World status too.

 

[ChrisL]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

People are weary of having their emotional buttons poshed whenever Muslims and racists want to manipulate us into supporting their bigoted Islamic Jihad.

I really am. I cannot in good conscience support such people. I know that there are so-called "moderates" among them, but I think that a lot of Muslims in the ME are at least silent conspirators. I don't trust them, and I have a very hard time with feeling any sympathy for them. I cannot say why, but my heart goes out to Israel rather than to the Palestinians. Sure, certain rare stories may tug at my heart strings, but then I have to think that, as a people in general, they've really brought this upon themselves with their extremist murderous ideology. Islam is NOT just a religion. It is a way of life.

 

[Mojo2]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

People are weary of having their emotional buttons poshed whenever Muslims and racists want to manipulate us into supporting their bigoted Islamic Jihad.

I really am. I cannot in good conscience support such people. I know that there are so-called "moderates" among them, but I think that a lot of Muslims in the ME are at least silent conspirators. I don't trust them, and I have a very hard time with feeling any sympathy for them. I cannot say why, but my heart goes out to Israel rather than to the Palestinians. Sure, certain rare stories may tug at my heart strings, but then I have to think that, as a people in general, they've really brought this upon themselves with their extremist murderous ideology. Islam is NOT just a religion. It is a way of life.

Great post. Sincere and heartfelt but tough minded and strong.

M2

 

[ChrisL]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

People are weary of having their emotional buttons poshed whenever Muslims and racists want to manipulate us into supporting their bigoted Islamic Jihad.

I really am. I cannot in good conscience support such people. I know that there are so-called "moderates" among them, but I think that a lot of Muslims in the ME are at least silent conspirators. I don't trust them, and I have a very hard time with feeling any sympathy for them. I cannot say why, but my heart goes out to Israel rather than to the Palestinians. Sure, certain rare stories may tug at my heart strings, but then I have to think that, as a people in general, they've really brought this upon themselves with their extremist murderous ideology. Islam is NOT just a religion. It is a way of life.

Great post. Sincere and heartfelt but tough minded and strong.

M2

Why thank you, kind sir!

 

[Mojo2]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

More than that, she gives her compassion and tries to give ours too without bothering to ask us. She'd give her compassion and then force Italy to give too.

I have a very hard time with compassion for them. I have more compassion for the Israelis who have been dealing with them for YEARS.

Everyone is an individual. Even Israeli's commit murder.

No one on the Right advocates or is on record as defending lawlessness or murder by ANYONE!

The fact, however, is that the Jews are usually law abiding.

The Palestinians have no laws except the Koran and the law of the jungle.

Which side is the more likely to commit a despicable act against the other?

The side which is usually law abiding or the side which has no respect for laws except those which directly benefit their hateful, racist agenda?

 

[irosie91]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

what a joke are you-----who had denied compassion for the
people eager to flee the stench of islamicism in Gaza?-----only you. You support the stench of islamicism in Gaza

 

[irosie91]

great thread-----everyone stayed in character. Aris described it accurately, coyote pontificated self righteously,
deltass UNIVERSALIZED IT, and Rikurzit lauded the
Syrian Baathist murderers as the heroic victims of-----the rest of the world

I said something about Syrians? Do tell.

you implied

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

 

[Rikurzhen]

great thread-----everyone stayed in character. Aris described it accurately, coyote pontificated self righteously,
deltass UNIVERSALIZED IT, and Rikurzit lauded the
Syrian Baathist murderers as the heroic victims of-----the rest of the world

I said something about Syrians? Do tell.

you implied

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

You're fucking nuts. Your initial comment was that this was a great thread due to people's comments playing out to type and yet you can't cite my comments at all.

Secondly, no one should trust your ability to comprehend what you're reading.

 

[irosie91]

great thread-----everyone stayed in character. Aris described it accurately, coyote pontificated self righteously,
deltass UNIVERSALIZED IT, and Rikurzit lauded the
Syrian Baathist murderers as the heroic victims of-----the rest of the world

I said something about Syrians? Do tell.

you implied

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

You're fucking nuts. Your initial comment was that this was a great thread due to people's comments playing out to type and yet you can't cite my comments at all.

Secondly, no one should trust your ability to comprehend what you're reading.

oh ok so you don't support the Baathist government of
the ASSADS against the "rebels" -----nice to know

 

[Rikurzhen]

I said something about Syrians? Do tell.

you implied

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

You're fucking nuts. Your initial comment was that this was a great thread due to people's comments playing out to type and yet you can't cite my comments at all.

Secondly, no one should trust your ability to comprehend what you're reading.

oh ok so you don't support the Baathist government of
the ASSADS against the "rebels" -----nice to know

When Islamists are battling Baathists, I cheer for the asteroid which is barreling down on the battleground. What I don't do is intervene and try to stop the fight. The more dead Muslims the better.

 

[irosie91]

you implied

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

You're fucking nuts. Your initial comment was that this was a great thread due to people's comments playing out to type and yet you can't cite my comments at all.

Secondly, no one should trust your ability to comprehend what you're reading.

oh ok so you don't support the Baathist government of
the ASSADS against the "rebels" -----nice to know

When Islamists are battling Baathists, I cheer for the asteroid which is barreling down on the battleground. What I don't do is intervene and try to stop the fight. The more dead Muslims the better.

Oh so?? you are making less sense than ever----there are actually some innocent people over there-----

 

[Rikurzhen]

Quote my comment back to me.

it's on the board along with the many other comments you made supporting the stink of the Baathist government of
your friend the murdering pig---Assad

You're fucking nuts. Your initial comment was that this was a great thread due to people's comments playing out to type and yet you can't cite my comments at all.

Secondly, no one should trust your ability to comprehend what you're reading.

oh ok so you don't support the Baathist government of
the ASSADS against the "rebels" -----nice to know

When Islamists are battling Baathists, I cheer for the asteroid which is barreling down on the battleground. What I don't do is intervene and try to stop the fight. The more dead Muslims the better.

Oh so?? you are making less sense than ever----there are actually some innocent people over there-----

Then they should fix their society, fight for the society that they want to create.