A 'mass murder in the Mediterranean' leaves nearly 450 lost at sea

[Mojo2]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

People are weary of having their emotional buttons poshed whenever Muslims and racists want to manipulate us into supporting their bigoted Islamic Jihad.

 

[Coyote]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

 

[Mojo2]

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

If ALL Liberals were as sensible as ChrisL, this country would be a smooth running nation and most everyone would be looking forward to an optimistic future as a united people.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

Where is the compassion that the rape victim has for the tormented childhood her attacker had to suffer. Unbelievable how cruel rape victims can be to the plight of their attackers.

Yeah, it's too bad that these people died, but these people were embarking on a crime spree against innocent victims. I'm more concerned about rape victims than their attackers and innocent people in the West rather than criminal Palestinians intent on harming innocents.

 

[SAYIT]

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

Italy has a negative birth rate and fewer young people coming than going. They actually need an influx of young workers but aren't too keen on Palestinians.

1.) That's for Italy to decide, not for infiltrators to decide on behalf of Italy.
2.) Italy doesn't need more young people, it needs more NET TAXPAYERS. Adding more welfare cases doesn't help Italy.
3.) Italy seems to have decided and they said No.

I'm certainly not volunteering Italy (I noted the Italians aren't too keen on the Palestinians) and I specifically mentioned Italy's need for "young workers" (read: net taxpayers).

 

[Mojo2]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

 

[Coyote]

The sheer level of hate and bigotry being presented here is mind boggling.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[SAYIT]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

Did I fail to mention what a terrible tragedy it was? Why no ... there it is right at the top of my post. There is nothing to be gained, however, by sanctimoniously wringing your hands and clucking your tongue at the reaction of others.

 

[Roadrunner]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

Did I fail to mention what a terrible tragedy it was? Why no ... there it is right at the top of my post. There is nothing to be gained, however, by sanctimoniously wringing your hands and clucking your tongue at the reaction of others.

A tragedy of Palestinian origin.

 

[Roadrunner]

The sheer level of hate and bigotry being presented here is mind boggling.

I'm done with this thread.

Don't let the door slam you in the ass on the way out.

 

[Coyote]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

Seriously? I see threads posted non stop on the latest atrocities and brutality by ISIS usually accompanied by hand wringing...are they compassion junkies too or is it "legit" because it's not a Palestinian victim?

This was a pretty damn brutal thing. Families and little kids drowned. I guess now you're going to go to some of those other threads and start blaming the victims?

Seriously dude. These are just people in the end trying to get out of a very bad situation with their families. They didn't deserve this.

 

[Coyote]

The sheer level of hate and bigotry being presented here is mind boggling.

I'm done with this thread.

Don't let the door slam you in the ass on the way out.

No worry there. Your fat ass wedged it open

 

[Coyote]

Traffickers 'laughed' as they capsized boat to drown refugees

"The mounting death toll is a blight on the reputation of the EU and its member states who must urgently act together, now, to ensure that no more men, women and children lose their lives," said John Dalhuisen, Europe and Central Asia Director at Amnesty International.

"With hundreds of thousands fleeing war and poverty across the Middle East and Africa, the priority must be to protect lives rather than creating an impenetrable fortress," he said.

'Trapped below deck'

The Syrian, Palestinian, Egyptian and Sudanese migrants had set out from Damietta in Egypt on September 6.

Four bus loads of migrants were loaded onto the boat, which was between 15 and 18 metres (50 to 60 feet) long, until there were some 300 people crammed below deck and 200 on top – including up to 100 children, the IOM said based on the survivors' reports.

"The 300 people who were in the lower deck were trapped and drowned immediately. The survivors say they watched as those thrown in the water clung to each other trying to stay alive," it said.

The two Palestinian survivors, who have requested asylum in Italy, said they paid a "travel office" in Gaza $2,000 (1,544 euros) each for the trip, with the money coming from grants they had been given to rebuild their homes.

While the EU said it was keen to prosecute traffickers, Cercone pointed out that their operational bases were outside European Union territory, "making it very difficult to track them and crack down on them."

It's unlikely they will be caught and brought to trial unfortunately.

 

[Rikurzhen]

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

Italy has a negative birth rate and fewer young people coming than going. They actually need an influx of young workers but aren't too keen on Palestinians.

1.) That's for Italy to decide, not for infiltrators to decide on behalf of Italy.
2.) Italy doesn't need more young people, it needs more NET TAXPAYERS. Adding more welfare cases doesn't help Italy.
3.) Italy seems to have decided and they said No.

I'm certainly not volunteering Italy (I noted the Italians aren't too keen on the Palestinians) and I specifically mentioned Italy's need for "young workers" (read: net taxpayers).

A worker, by virtue of being a worker, is not a net taxpayer, neither in Italy nor America. It costs $11,000 per year per child, or thereabouts, to send a child to public school. A dishwasher in a restaurant is not paying enough in taxes per year to carry his fair share of the tax load.

It's like this, a family takes some big financial hit and the wife now has to go to work and if she earns what her husband earns, then she's the equal of the husband but if the man is a widower and instead of the wife going to work his 12 year old daughter takes on a paper route and earns $20 per week, that daughter is not an equal breadwinner for the family.

WE all consume public services, we use sewer systems, we drive on super highways, we benefit from an expensive police force, etc, so to pay for our consumption of these services we each have to pay a lot in taxes. Low income workers don't pay in full for what they consume. We can't do much about American citizens, so we subsidize the low income taxpayers, but that doesn't mean we need to import more low income tax payers. What we, and Italy too, need are high income taxpayers, people who pay their way PLUS more and subsidize the rest of us. There were NO high income taxpayer types on those sunk boats, in other words, there were no NET TAXPAYERS on that boat.

 

[Coyote]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

Did I fail to mention what a terrible tragedy it was? Why no ... there it is right at the top of my post. There is nothing to be gained, however, by sanctimoniously wringing your hands and clucking your tongue at the reaction of others.

Why no...you did mention it, in a rather self serving way as you hurried on past the obligatory statement.

 

[Rikurzhen]

When the Fogel family was murdered by a terrorist while they slept in their beds there were people saying they deserved it. They shouldn't have been where they were. They were Zionist terrorists and their kids would have been brainwashed into the same thing. It was a concerted effort to blame the victim. Very much like this.

Like I said unfucking believable.

You should listen to the audio. It's heartbreaking.

Ohhhhhhhhh!

It's all clear now.

You are a compassion junkie.

Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.

Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!

Phew!

That was a long time coming.

More than that, she gives her compassion and tries to give ours too without bothering to ask us. She'd give her compassion and then force Italy to give too.

 

[SAYIT]

Ohhhhhhhhh!
It's all clear now.
You are a compassion junkie.
Anytime you find someone or a group which you feel is worthy of your compassion you just give it and give it and give it.
Not as much for THEIR sake as it does to feed your addiction!!!
Phew!
That was a long time coming.

Seriously? I see threads posted non stop on the latest atrocities and brutality by ISIS usually accompanied by hand wringing...are they compassion junkies too or is it "legit" because it's not a Palestinian victim?

This was a pretty damn brutal thing. Families and little kids drowned. I guess now you're going to go to some of those other threads and start blaming the victims?

Seriously dude. These are just people in the end trying to get out of a very bad situation with their families. They didn't deserve this.

But, in fact, Palestinians are subject to the excesses and oppression of their very own ISIS - HAMAS - and while they can't say so publically, HAMAS is probably what most Gazans are trying to escape.
I'm betting that the vast majority of the "latest atrocities and brutality by ISIS" threads are a direct response to the plethora of "Evil Israel" and "Apartheid Israel" threads posted by your side of the aisle. They serve to offer some perspective about Israel's struggle to maintain a safe and prosperous 21st Century society in an 8th Century neighborhood.
You are correct, however, that many Gazans do not nor have they ever promoted, supported or embraced Hamas and those Gazans do indeed deserve a better fate.

 

[Kondor3]

...Actually the real question is this. Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread? Unfucking believable.

After seeing one's first two or three dozen threads about poor people and families getting killed - especially when people with agendas bring them up in the first place or exploit the situation in order to advance their own political agendas, the tendency is to grow numb, and skip the emotional aspects, and argue fact, and policy.

 

[SAYIT]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

Did I fail to mention what a terrible tragedy it was? Why no ... there it is right at the top of my post. There is nothing to be gained, however, by sanctimoniously wringing your hands and clucking your tongue at the reaction of others.

Why no...you did mention it, in a rather self serving way as you hurried on past the obligatory statement.

You read it that way because it serves your holier-than-thou purpose. I can't fix what is wrong with you ... that's your job but for what it's worth, I'm glad you decided to stay in this thread.

 

[Coyote]

It's not even just Palestinians - it's a huge commercial enterprise preying on desperate people and getting rich on it and getting away with murder.

Italy s decision to end Mare Nostrum will put the lives of thousands of migrants and refugees at risk - Letters - Voices - The Independent

The whole region is in disarray, the Arab Spring having brought only chaos, disaster and war, but there is still money to be made along the Mediterranean’s war-torn coast.

What desire do the Yazidis of Iraq and the Palestinians of Gaza share with millions of Syrians and practically the entire remaining populations of Somalia and Eritrea? The desire to get out. To leave the destruction, poverty, fanaticism and war as far behind as possible. Heading almost anywhere, as long as it is north.

So for those who can provide the service – the people-traffickers of Libya in particular – business is booming as never before. Their customers pay at least $2,000 (£1,250) for the passage, and often much more. It’s a business worth $1bn a year, according to a recent estimate. A complex and well-oiled network transports the would-be migrants from the tunnels of Gaza, the suburbs of Tripoli and the many other places from which they emerge after long, gruelling journeys to the port of Zuwara, a couple of hours’ drive west from Tripoli on the road to the Tunisian border.

Zuwara has been a centre of the trade for many years. When I visited it a few years back, the docks rang to the sound of hammers as crude wooden boats were bashed into shape. There was no need for the boats to be other than crude: they were only meant for a single one-way voyage, if that. Mercedes cars and shops stacked with high-end liquor and chocolates hinted at the wealth of the local residents.