A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[2aguy]

So you want a woman to die because her pregnancy went wrong.

There are only 2 outcomes to an ectopic ppregnanc.......

So the argument that a fertilized egg is life isn't a valid argument. Especially in an ectopic pregnancy.

Every year about 65 thousand ectopic pregnancies happen in America.

By your views, 65 thousand women should die.

How pro life.

I'm not Pro-Life. I'm Anti-Abortion. I have routinely commented that there are only two acceptable circumstances for an abortion....

1. The act which created the pregnancy was not consensual.

2. The life of the mother is in immediate danger of being ended if the pregnancy isn't terminated.

Other than that, the "Choice" was made when she consented to the sexual act that got her pregnant.

The only reason to terminate the Pregnancy....the actual life of the mother is in jeapordy....that is called Triage, not murder. Rape and incest should not be a death sentence for the innocent child in the attack......

And that should be your choice, not a choice you make for others

Sorry...their is an innocent involved that is not the mother...she has the choice to engage in sex or not...the baby is a 3rd party.....not her body...

It's not a baby, it is a fetus.

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Baby, not fetus...it doesn't grow into a lizard. or a dog, or a chair....it grows into a human being.

 

[Anathema]

[QUOTE="Czernobog, post: 15678402, member: 51730]No, it's not. Who's decency and morality? Who gets to be the arbiter of which moral views are codified into law?
[/QUOTE]

I believe in Universal Morality as codified when the first people came together into civilizations.

 

[Czernobog]

No. The real problem is not knowing the difference between a fetus, and a child.

Some day you will stand in front of The Divine. Then you can explain the difference.

Yeah, not a problem for me. My religion's version of divinity isn't that rigid.

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[kaz]

I'm not Pro-Life. I'm Anti-Abortion. I have routinely commented that there are only two acceptable circumstances for an abortion....

1. The act which created the pregnancy was not consensual.

2. The life of the mother is in immediate danger of being ended if the pregnancy isn't terminated.

Other than that, the "Choice" was made when she consented to the sexual act that got her pregnant.

The only reason to terminate the Pregnancy....the actual life of the mother is in jeapordy....that is called Triage, not murder. Rape and incest should not be a death sentence for the innocent child in the attack......

And that should be your choice, not a choice you make for others

Sorry...their is an innocent involved that is not the mother...she has the choice to engage in sex or not...the baby is a 3rd party.....not her body...

Of course it's her body. Your trust in politicians and bureaucrats to make these decisions over our bodies is stunning. It's amazing how conservatives correctly say how they don't care about people when they take our money and spend it, but then suddenly they're qualified to make decisions over our bodies.

You don't have to accept abortion, just fight it the right way. By convincing people, not by convincing politicians

I'm for both.....the woman doesn't have to keep the baby, she just can't kill it...she can adopt it out or even leave it at a fire station.......

It's not an appropriate use of government power to use force to compel her to carry the baby in her body to term. She should choose that in my view, but it's not my view to use force on her to accomplish that

 

[2aguy]

The only reason to terminate the Pregnancy....the actual life of the mother is in jeapordy....that is called Triage, not murder. Rape and incest should not be a death sentence for the innocent child in the attack......

And that should be your choice, not a choice you make for others

Sorry...their is an innocent involved that is not the mother...she has the choice to engage in sex or not...the baby is a 3rd party.....not her body...

Of course it's her body. Your trust in politicians and bureaucrats to make these decisions over our bodies is stunning. It's amazing how conservatives correctly say how they don't care about people when they take our money and spend it, but then suddenly they're qualified to make decisions over our bodies.

You don't have to accept abortion, just fight it the right way. By convincing people, not by convincing politicians

I'm for both.....the woman doesn't have to keep the baby, she just can't kill it...she can adopt it out or even leave it at a fire station.......

It's not an appropriate use of government power to use force to compel her to carry the baby in her body to term. She should choose that in my view, but it's not my view to use force on her to accomplish that

Murder is murder...an innocent life is ended regardless of it's physical location at the time of the murder.

 

[Anathema]

You keep making the point how important it is to you to decide what you consider moral. Yet you still grant no such right to anyone else

I don't make decisions for myself or anyone else. Those decisions were made thousands of years ago when our ancestors formed the first civilizations.

 

[kaz]

And that should be your choice, not a choice you make for others

Sorry...their is an innocent involved that is not the mother...she has the choice to engage in sex or not...the baby is a 3rd party.....not her body...

Of course it's her body. Your trust in politicians and bureaucrats to make these decisions over our bodies is stunning. It's amazing how conservatives correctly say how they don't care about people when they take our money and spend it, but then suddenly they're qualified to make decisions over our bodies.

You don't have to accept abortion, just fight it the right way. By convincing people, not by convincing politicians

I'm for both.....the woman doesn't have to keep the baby, she just can't kill it...she can adopt it out or even leave it at a fire station.......

It's not an appropriate use of government power to use force to compel her to carry the baby in her body to term. She should choose that in my view, but it's not my view to use force on her to accomplish that

Murder is murder...an innocent life is ended regardless of it's physical location at the time of the murder.

It's her body. She isn't attacking the baby in a bar fight, she's taking it out of her body.

All your arguments are reasonable arguments to make to pregnant women considering an abortion to make the choice you think they should make. They are not reasonable to attempt to remove her choice by force

 

[Anathema]

Exactly, so will you. We all have to make our own choices

I have no problem standing there to have my Soul judged. I just think you might have yours found severely wanting.

 

[kaz]

You keep making the point how important it is to you to decide what you consider moral. Yet you still grant no such right to anyone else

I don't make decisions for myself or anyone else. Those decisions were made thousands of years ago when our ancestors formed the first civilizations.

Of course you are. There is not a clear and consistent set of standards that have been evenly applied, there are many norms and conventions that evolved. You decided on a set you like. Cool. For you to make for yourself. Not cool for you to make them for others, just like they have no legitimate right to make your choices for you

 

[Anathema]

Yeah, not a problem for me. My religion's version of divinity isn't that rigid.

I think you may be in for a very large and unpleasant surprise when you find out Morality supercedes religion

 

[Czernobog]

[QUOTE="Czernobog, post: 15678402, member: 51730]No, it's not. Who's decency and morality? Who gets to be the arbiter of which moral views are codified into law?

I believe in Universal Morality as codified when the first people came together into civilizations.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you see the problem with tour response is found in the first two words: "I believe". That is a fantastic personal code. However, by what authority do you presume to have the right to codify that view for everyone?

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[kaz]

Exactly, so will you. We all have to make our own choices

I have no problem standing there to have my Soul judged. I just think you might have yours found severely wanting.

Going around and respecting the right of others to make their own choices? Yes, there's something pretty funky about my believing that. I see your point.

So does your God care that someone else does the right thing, according to you, when they only do it at the point of your gun?

 

[Czernobog]

Yeah, not a problem for me. My religion's version of divinity isn't that rigid.

I think you may be in for a very large and unpleasant surprise when you find out Morality supercedes religion

I think you mat be in for an even bigger surprise when you find that there is no "divine".

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[kaz]

Yeah, not a problem for me. My religion's version of divinity isn't that rigid.

I think you may be in for a very large and unpleasant surprise when you find out Morality supercedes religion

You mean like judge not lest ye be judged?

 

[Anathema]

Of course you are. There is not a clear and consistent set of standards that have been evenly applied, there are many norms and conventions that evolved. You decided on a set you like. Cool. For you to make for yourself. Not cool for you to make them for others, just like they have no legitimate right to make your choices for you

No, I am not making choices any more than a cook chooses to follow the recipe in the cookbook.

Without ironclad standards of zmorality, rigidly enforced, no Society can last for long. As we are seeing in this nation currently.

 

[Anathema]

Yeah, you see the problem with tour response is found in the first two words: "I believe". That is a fantastic personal code. However, by what authority do you presume to have the right to codify that view for everyone?

The fact that it's the Moral Code the Founders of this nation believed in as well.

 

[kaz]

Of course you are. There is not a clear and consistent set of standards that have been evenly applied, there are many norms and conventions that evolved. You decided on a set you like. Cool. For you to make for yourself. Not cool for you to make them for others, just like they have no legitimate right to make your choices for you

No, I am not making choices any more than a cook chooses to follow the recipe in the cookbook.

Without ironclad standards of zmorality, rigidly enforced, no Society can last for long. As we are seeing in this nation currently.

I thought it was about morality, now it's about society? Life is gray, you are lying to yourself that it can be made black and white. And wow, you want to give politicians that kind of power. You're insane

 

[Anathema]

Going around and respecting the right of others to make their own choices? Yes, there's something pretty funky about my believing that. I see your point.

So does your God care that someone else does the right thing, according to you, when they only do it at the point of your gun?

So long as the Right Thing is done, the Soul is not damaged.... regardless of what it takes for that to happen.

 

[Crixus]

See, when a get to waxing philosophical is when an honest person can clearly see what is and is not immoral. take this old as church argument here. so any Christian bible based church will say if you don't accept Jesus Christ you go to hell right? so inevitably some one brings up the wild people in jungles who have never seen a Whiteman let all e heard one preaching the word. so do they just rot in hell? probably not. that's specifi9adressed in the bible. Theology aside, humans are borne with a sense of morality. we are born knowing taking what isn't us is not good. Murder is bad and so on. it's when what we know is wright and wrong comes up against what we want that it gets fuzzy.

 

[Anathema]

I think you mat be in for an even bigger surprise when you find that there is no "divine".

Then human life has no value and should be extinguished, permanently. By whatever means are necessary to do so.