A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[SassyIrishLass]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

They are just keeping the media's BS going like obedient little sheep

 

[Czernobog]

Murder is murder. You either sanction it, or you don't.

Nice bumper sticker. Didn't answer the question, though.

 

[Jack4jill]

Murder is murder. You either sanction it, or you don't.

A good reason not to call abortion murder, which it isn't. Not even in the Bible.

Where in the bible?

Exodus:

21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

 

[Czernobog]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

The only bullshit is calling abortion "murder", and refusing to hold one half of the parties involved in the murder responsible.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you are against sex with children you too are anti-choice. Anyone can use your stupid rhetoric to try to bolster their case. It isn't the right that's inconsistent here, it's the left. The right tends to want to limit abortion to need and not use it as a form of birth control. State sanctioned killing is reserved for those that earned it. Murder means unjustified, go ahead and look it up since words confuse you.

Also, if a woman wants her baby and is stabbed, let's say, and it's killed, or they both are, the perp is charged with homicide or two counts homicide respectively. Now ponder that and get back to us with an explanation that makes sense if you can.

The words do not confuse me, as that is the very definition of murder that I used. The problem seems to be your reading comprehension, not my understanding of the meaning of words. And you didn't answer the question. What should be the appropriate punishment for the woman who has an abortion?

You are confused. Badly. You alone don't get to decide justification. If abortions are legal then it's justified. If they are illegal then it isn't. See how simple that was?

 

[Anathema]

Those who respect women, you are insane and do not, know that abortion can be a necessary medical procedure. It cannot be banned unless you are willing to let women die, which you are.

There are TWO situations where an abortion MAY be a reasonable decision: Rape/Incest and situations where the LIFE (not just health) of the mother is in immediate danger. Anything goes else is simply ignoring the consequences of a decision.

 

[Czernobog]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

They are just keeping the media's BS going like obedient little sheep

LOL. Yes, it's "being sheep" to demand that someone follow their ideological position to its logical conclusion.

 

[Jack4jill]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

The only bullshit is calling abortion "murder", and refusing to hold one half of the parties involved in the murder responsible.

Contract murder no less.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

They are just keeping the media's BS going like obedient little sheep

LOL. Yes, it's "being sheep" to demand that someone follow their ideological position to its logical conclusion.

Wooosh, right over your head

 

[Anathema]

Yes. You adore women... just so long as they remember their place, and do as they're told, right?

That's the definition of a woman. Anything else is a feminist.

 

[Jack4jill]

Those who respect women, you are insane and do not, know that abortion can be a necessary medical procedure. It cannot be banned unless you are willing to let women die, which you are.

There are TWO situations where an abortion MAY be a reasonable decision: Rape/Incest and situations where the LIFE (not just health) of the mother is in immediate danger. Anything goes else is simply ignoring the consequences of a decision.

What makes a rape or incest fetus less worthy than any other?

And you want a woman to suffer health issues or even be unable to have another child because you can't deal with an abortion?

A perfectly healthy fetus can be aborted because of how she got pregnant but not one to save the health of the mother? Totally irrational.

 

[tinydancer]

Murder is murder. You either sanction it, or you don't.

A good reason not to call abortion murder, which it isn't. Not even in the Bible.

Where in the bible?

Exodus:

21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

You are using RSV. This differs greatly from NIV and the Hebrew translation.

It's a no go.

 

[Anathema]

Okay, first of all, your presumption that women are too emotional to be trusted to make rational decisions is rather offensive to all women. Second, by your logic, when a woman finds out that her husband is cheating on her, gets upset, and contracts an assassin to murder her husband, she should not be held accountable for these action. Yet, I'm pretty sure that, in the United states, conspiracy to commit murder carries pretty much the same penalties as murder, itself.

Most of what passes for women in this society deserve to be insulted, at the very least.

Infidelity for either gender should be a capital crime, without need for an assassin.

 

[Jack4jill]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

They are just keeping the media's BS going like obedient little sheep

LOL. Yes, it's "being sheep" to demand that someone follow their ideological position to its logical conclusion.

They can't understand that if you call something murder, you'd better goddamned be willing to punish it, as murder.

 

[Czernobog]

If you are against sex with children you too are anti-choice. Anyone can use your stupid rhetoric to try to bolster their case. It isn't the right that's inconsistent here, it's the left. The right tends to want to limit abortion to need and not use it as a form of birth control. State sanctioned killing is reserved for those that earned it. Murder means unjustified, go ahead and look it up since words confuse you.

Also, if a woman wants her baby and is stabbed, let's say, and it's killed, or they both are, the perp is charged with homicide or two counts homicide respectively. Now ponder that and get back to us with an explanation that makes sense if you can.

The words do not confuse me, as that is the very definition of murder that I used. The problem seems to be your reading comprehension, not my understanding of the meaning of words. And you didn't answer the question. What should be the appropriate punishment for the woman who has an abortion?

You are confused. Badly. You alone don't get to decide justification. If abortions are legal then it's justified. If they are illegal then it isn't. See how simple that was?

Gee. Thanks for the juvenile sophistry. Again, you should go back and try reading for comprehension. The entire point of the OP is that the anti-choice crowd wants abortion to be illegal, and that they base their desire on the position that abortion is the unjustified killing of a person - which by your own admission is murder. I simply want to know why the anti-choice crowd seems willing to "give a pass" to one half of the parties guilty of the act that they claim is equivalent to murder.

You are only doing what I expect, equivocating, and deflecting, because the question leaves rational people in an indefensible position.

 

[Jack4jill]

Murder is murder. You either sanction it, or you don't.

A good reason not to call abortion murder, which it isn't. Not even in the Bible.

Where in the bible?

Exodus:

21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

You are using RSV. This differs greatly from NIV and the Hebrew translation.

It's a no go.

Bring any translation you like. They all say the same thing. As long as she lives, that's all that matters. The fetus is property, not a person.

 

[Czernobog]

Those who respect women, you are insane and do not, know that abortion can be a necessary medical procedure. It cannot be banned unless you are willing to let women die, which you are.

There are TWO situations where an abortion MAY be a reasonable decision: Rape/Incest and situations where the LIFE (not just health) of the mother is in immediate danger. Anything goes else is simply ignoring the consequences of a decision.

By that logic, no murder is rational, and as such should not be punishable.

 

[tinydancer]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

The only bullshit is calling abortion "murder", and refusing to hold one half of the parties involved in the murder responsible.

The bullshit I refer to is the posters statement that Trump just out of the blue called for the incarceration of a woman who has an abortion.

The gottcha question for the soundbite was "if abortion was outlawed..."

So the left gets their fucking soundbite from that old bastard Matthews and runs with the "answer" without putting up the question that results in Trump's response.

AKA fucking bullshit.

 

[Jack4jill]

Okay, first of all, your presumption that women are too emotional to be trusted to make rational decisions is rather offensive to all women. Second, by your logic, when a woman finds out that her husband is cheating on her, gets upset, and contracts an assassin to murder her husband, she should not be held accountable for these action. Yet, I'm pretty sure that, in the United states, conspiracy to commit murder carries pretty much the same penalties as murder, itself.

Most of what passes for women in this society deserve to be insulted, at the very least.

Infidelity for either gender should be a capital crime, without need for an assassin.

That leaves Trump six feet under, several times.

 

[Jack4jill]

Okay. Now, this is a question specifically directed towards the anti-choice activists. Let us begin with the most common premise of the anti-choice folks: A fetus is a person. Abortion is killing a person without justification. Ergo, abortion is essentially state sanctioned murder. (Now, let us be clear, I Do. NOT agree with this premise, at all. However, it is the premise of nearly every anti-choice advocate. So, to follow this position to its logical conclusion, we are going to allow this premise from the outset.)

So, we have established that a fetus is a person, and abortion is equivalent to murder. Proceeding from that premise, there are actually two people involved in the planning, and executing of said murder - the doctor, and the pregnant woman. Now, the anti-choice advocates have made no secret of their contempt for the doctors who participate in abortions, Oklahoma going so far as to pass a new law criminalizing abortions, and levying heavy penalties against the doctors who participate. However, no one, including Oklahoma, seems interested in punishing, or even acknowledging, the pregnant woman's role in this action. So. What about her? What punishment is reasonable for a woman who contracts a medical professional to murder her unborn child?

trump said there should be some form of punishment for women who have abortions, but then again, he may have switched that to a "suggestion" along with just about everything else he gets called on.

Matthews gottcha question for the sound bite to Trump was "if abortion was outlawed....". Trump answered based on the illegality of abortion.

So stop the bullshit.

The only bullshit is calling abortion "murder", and refusing to hold one half of the parties involved in the murder responsible.

The bullshit I refer to is the posters statement that Trump just out of the blue called for the incarceration of a woman who has an abortion.

The gottcha question for the soundbite was "if abortion was outlawed..."

So the left gets their fucking soundbite from that old bastard Matthews and runs with the "answer" without putting up the question that results in Trump's response.

AKA fucking bullshit.

It's not a "gotcha" question for those wanting to ban abortion. They'd better be able to follow that to its logical conclusion, and few can.