About those "European" Jews . . . .

[Challenger]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

Given the subsequent hysterical and rabid response from the "pro-Zionist Israel" crowd, you will probably not get a sensible answer to your question. Suffice to say, there is no specific "Jew gene" despite feverish attempts by Zionist scientists to find one over the last few decades. I for one don't subscribe to the "Khazar Hypothesis" as it contains too many inconsistancies and does not tie in with the movements of Judaism throughout European history. The idea of "race" is a 19th century construct stemming from the emergance of European Nationalism and the idea of a Jewish race is a just Zionist construct, before Zionism, Jewish people considered themselves Englishmen, Frenchmen, etc. who just followed a different religion; Hebrew, like Latin, was a liturgical language rarely spoken outside places of worship or academe. There is also no definitive link between Jewish Europeans and the ancient Levant other than a religious connection to the cult centre of Judaism, Jerusalem.

 

[DriftingSand]

The 1984 Jewish Almanac says; "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew."

MAY GOD JUDGE YOU FOR THIS LIE AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE. WHAT A WICKED THING YOU HAVE DONE!

All caps is shouting. I'm only quoting what today's Jews say about themselves. God will judge you for rejecting truth and accepting a lie. He will also judge the religious-self-righteous who believe they have the right to judge the souls of believers in Christ. I find it interesting that you are so quick to condemn someone who has accepted the blood of Christ and Him as Savior while defending them who reject Christ as the Son of God. You should reflect on that fact and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

 

[DriftingSand]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

Anti Semites like "drifting shit" always navigate to other Jews haters like shit does to flies. Benjamin Freedman, a totally unqualified nobody who converted to Catholicism, and then became a professional moron. Oh but he was a Jew so I guess what he says counts. Ha ha ha. Here is your "Benjamin Freedman" and his shining resume:


Benjamin Harrison[1] Freedman (1890 – May 1984)[2] was an American businessman and anti-Zionist[3][4] activist, accused of anti-semitism by ideological opponents.[5][6][7] He converted fromJudaism to Roman Catholicism.[8] Freedman was a partner in a dermatological institute and in small business.

Benjamin H Freedman was listed on the letterhead of the Institute for Arab American Affairs and around 1946, along with his wife, listed as "R M Schoendorf" (Rose M. Schoendorf Freedman), "sponsored a series of advertisements under the imprint of 'The League for Peace with Justice in Palestine'".[11] In 1946 he sued the American Jewish Committee for libel and the case was thrown out in less than a month.

Freedman opposed the nomination of Anna M. Rosenberg to be Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1950.[21] An article in theADL Bulletin entitled The Plot Against Ann Rosenberg attributed the attacks on Rosenberg's loyalty to "professional anti-Semites and lunatic nationalists," including the "Jew-baiting cabal of John Rankin, Benjamin Freedman, and Gerald Smith."[7]

Freedman, an apostate Jew, was well known to the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee as an active supporter of the Arab cause in the Middle East. (fn 33) In the course of his erratic and often contradictory testimony before the Senate committee, Freedman revealed the roles played by anti-Semitic agitators and right-wing anticommunists — including Gerald L.K. Smith, Conde McGinley, the "Reverend" Wesley Swift, Congressman John Rankin, Senator Joseph McCarthy, and J.B. Matthews — in the campaign against the Rosenberg appointment. (fn 34)[7]

He is mentioned in a report by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

OH GEE, WHAT A GREAT GUY...ANTI AMERICAN, ANTI SEMITE, ISLAMOFACIST SUPPORTER, ETC. YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.

YUP, FACTS ARE FACTS!

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

 

[Phoenall]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

The renowned and respected Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, aptly answers your questions in his great work, "The Thirteenth Tribe," in which he produces an accurate historical expose' on the European Jews (also known as the Ashkenazi). These "Jews" are converts to Judaism. The Khazars converted to Judaism (en masse) in the 8th Century A.D. Koestler calls his people "the thirteenth tribe" because they have no relation to the biblical 12 tribes of "true Israel." The bulk of today's Jews are simply an Asiatic people (related to the Huns and Moguls) that accepted the religion of Rabbinic Judaism. It's really that simple.

The Thirteenth Tribe The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage Arthur Koestler 9780445042421 Amazon.com Books

Yes a work of total fiction like so many other books much lauded by team Palestine. This is what the author of the wiki article has to say

That same year saw the publication of The Thirteenth Tribe, about the hypothetical Khazar origins of European Jewry.

 

[Phoenall]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

It's very nice that you are bringing up things which are so popular on the hate sites. There are other things, however, to consider such as the latest genetic testing. Say, can anyone tell us if King David was an Ashkenazi since he had red hair and I once read that many Russians have red hair?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html?_r=0

Tracing the Roots of Jewishness Science AAAS News

Who are the KHAZARS

Then we have this from a Kiki article

The Thirteenth Tribe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Genetic research[edit]
A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to the populations among whom they lived in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to Haplogroup R1a, the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow. Referencing The Thirteenth Tribe, the study's authors note that "Some authors argue that after the fall of their kingdom in the second half of the 10th century CE, the Khazar converts were absorbed by the emerging Ashkenazi Jewish community in Eastern Europe." They conclude: "However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim".[24]
Writing in Science, Michael Balter states Koestler's thesis "clash[es] with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots." He refers to a 2010 study by geneticist Harry Ostrer which found that Ashkenazi Jews "clustered more closely with Middle Eastern and Sephardic Jews, a finding the researchers say is inconsistent with the Khazar hypothesis" and concludes "that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations". Geneticist Noah Rosenberg asserts that although recent DNA studies "do not appear to support" the Khazar hypothesis, they do not "entirely eliminate it either."[25]




Looks like science and not fiction tells the truth about the Ashkenazi Jews, and Koestler himself says that the book is a work of fiction.

 

[Phoenall]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

Interesting. If the European Jews were just "Europeans" then why Hitlers obsession from cleansing their race from the land. Who were they then, is a good question.

They were descendants of the Jews taken out of Israel by the Romans as slaves as the genetic research shows their close ties to Sephardic Jews in Palestine. The reason for team Palestine claiming that there are no ties to the land is because the arab muslims claiming to be Palestinian have no ties to the land being squatters and illegal immigrants.

 

[Phoenall]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

They have NO direct LINEAGE to Abraham

Yet genetics say they have and they have been traced right back to people who lived in Israel 4,000 or more years ago. Many remains that are from that era have mitochondrial DNA present in the teeth which can be extracted and multiplied to give a result 99.9% accurate. Just as the genetic studies on arab muslim Palestinians show that less than 200 years ago they were inter breeding in another part of the M.E. ( mutated DNA from close breeding shows this very clearly )

 

[Phoenall]

The 1984 Jewish Almanac says; "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew."

MAY GOD JUDGE YOU FOR THIS LIE AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE. WHAT A WICKED THING YOU HAVE DONE!

All caps is shouting. I'm only quoting what today's Jews say about themselves. God will judge you for rejecting truth and accepting a lie. He will also judge the religious-self-righteous who believe they have the right to judge the souls of believers in Christ. I find it interesting that you are so quick to condemn someone who has accepted the blood of Christ and Him as Savior while defending them who reject Christ as the Son of God. You should reflect on that fact and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

No you are repeating what is posted on ANTI SEMITIC, NEO NAZI and WHITE SUPREMACIST sites all over the world. The people you refer to are charlatans or their works are taken out of context. Next you will be quoting The Protocols as a work of fact and that it shows the Jews as wanting to dominate all mankind.

 

[Phoenall]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

Anti Semites like "drifting shit" always navigate to other Jews haters like shit does to flies. Benjamin Freedman, a totally unqualified nobody who converted to Catholicism, and then became a professional moron. Oh but he was a Jew so I guess what he says counts. Ha ha ha. Here is your "Benjamin Freedman" and his shining resume:


Benjamin Harrison[1] Freedman (1890 – May 1984)[2] was an American businessman and anti-Zionist[3][4] activist, accused of anti-semitism by ideological opponents.[5][6][7] He converted fromJudaism to Roman Catholicism.[8] Freedman was a partner in a dermatological institute and in small business.

Benjamin H Freedman was listed on the letterhead of the Institute for Arab American Affairs and around 1946, along with his wife, listed as "R M Schoendorf" (Rose M. Schoendorf Freedman), "sponsored a series of advertisements under the imprint of 'The League for Peace with Justice in Palestine'".[11] In 1946 he sued the American Jewish Committee for libel and the case was thrown out in less than a month.

Freedman opposed the nomination of Anna M. Rosenberg to be Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1950.[21] An article in theADL Bulletin entitled The Plot Against Ann Rosenberg attributed the attacks on Rosenberg's loyalty to "professional anti-Semites and lunatic nationalists," including the "Jew-baiting cabal of John Rankin, Benjamin Freedman, and Gerald Smith."[7]

Freedman, an apostate Jew, was well known to the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee as an active supporter of the Arab cause in the Middle East. (fn 33) In the course of his erratic and often contradictory testimony before the Senate committee, Freedman revealed the roles played by anti-Semitic agitators and right-wing anticommunists — including Gerald L.K. Smith, Conde McGinley, the "Reverend" Wesley Swift, Congressman John Rankin, Senator Joseph McCarthy, and J.B. Matthews — in the campaign against the Rosenberg appointment. (fn 34)[7]

He is mentioned in a report by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

OH GEE, WHAT A GREAT GUY...ANTI AMERICAN, ANTI SEMITE, ISLAMOFACIST SUPPORTER, ETC. YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.

YUP, FACTS ARE FACTS!

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

Strange then how he attacked your source material and showed that the author was a known RACIST HOMOPHOBIC XENOPHOBE ( capitals for emphasis only ) and hardly a valid source of any facts being as he was biased in the extreme.

 

[DriftingSand]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

The renowned and respected Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, aptly answers your questions in his great work, "The Thirteenth Tribe," in which he produces an accurate historical expose' on the European Jews (also known as the Ashkenazi). These "Jews" are converts to Judaism. The Khazars converted to Judaism (en masse) in the 8th Century A.D. Koestler calls his people "the thirteenth tribe" because they have no relation to the biblical 12 tribes of "true Israel." The bulk of today's Jews are simply an Asiatic people (related to the Huns and Moguls) that accepted the religion of Rabbinic Judaism. It's really that simple.

The Thirteenth Tribe The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage Arthur Koestler 9780445042421 Amazon.com Books

Yes a work of total fiction like so many other books much lauded by team Palestine. This is what the author of the wiki article has to say

That same year saw the publication of The Thirteenth Tribe, about the hypothetical Khazar origins of European Jewry.

Was Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, also a "fictional" character or was he a real life historian? Why do folks who disagree with something always have to attack the messenger instead of the message? Have you read the Thirteenth Tribe? If so, please explain in detail why you believe it's "fictional?"

Arthur Koestler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not pro-Koestler or anti-Koestler. I just know that he was a renowned and respected Jewish historian who thought it important enough to write about the origins of his people. Accept his detailed work or reject it but don't attack him or me simply because he wrote about things he knew about. That's a dishonest critique of the man AND his work.

 

[DriftingSand]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

Anti Semites like "drifting shit" always navigate to other Jews haters like shit does to flies. Benjamin Freedman, a totally unqualified nobody who converted to Catholicism, and then became a professional moron. Oh but he was a Jew so I guess what he says counts. Ha ha ha. Here is your "Benjamin Freedman" and his shining resume:


Benjamin Harrison[1] Freedman (1890 – May 1984)[2] was an American businessman and anti-Zionist[3][4] activist, accused of anti-semitism by ideological opponents.[5][6][7] He converted fromJudaism to Roman Catholicism.[8] Freedman was a partner in a dermatological institute and in small business.

Benjamin H Freedman was listed on the letterhead of the Institute for Arab American Affairs and around 1946, along with his wife, listed as "R M Schoendorf" (Rose M. Schoendorf Freedman), "sponsored a series of advertisements under the imprint of 'The League for Peace with Justice in Palestine'".[11] In 1946 he sued the American Jewish Committee for libel and the case was thrown out in less than a month.

Freedman opposed the nomination of Anna M. Rosenberg to be Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1950.[21] An article in theADL Bulletin entitled The Plot Against Ann Rosenberg attributed the attacks on Rosenberg's loyalty to "professional anti-Semites and lunatic nationalists," including the "Jew-baiting cabal of John Rankin, Benjamin Freedman, and Gerald Smith."[7]

Freedman, an apostate Jew, was well known to the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee as an active supporter of the Arab cause in the Middle East. (fn 33) In the course of his erratic and often contradictory testimony before the Senate committee, Freedman revealed the roles played by anti-Semitic agitators and right-wing anticommunists — including Gerald L.K. Smith, Conde McGinley, the "Reverend" Wesley Swift, Congressman John Rankin, Senator Joseph McCarthy, and J.B. Matthews — in the campaign against the Rosenberg appointment. (fn 34)[7]

He is mentioned in a report by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

OH GEE, WHAT A GREAT GUY...ANTI AMERICAN, ANTI SEMITE, ISLAMOFACIST SUPPORTER, ETC. YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.

YUP, FACTS ARE FACTS!

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

Strange then how he attacked your source material and showed that the author was a known RACIST HOMOPHOBIC XENOPHOBE ( capitals for emphasis only ) and hardly a valid source of any facts being as he was biased in the extreme.

Does his and your hatred for Freedman (a Jew) and Koeslter (a Jew) make both of you "Jew haters?" I hate nobody. But I do embrace the truth and I share it when I find it.

 

[DriftingSand]

The 1984 Jewish Almanac says; "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew."

MAY GOD JUDGE YOU FOR THIS LIE AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE. WHAT A WICKED THING YOU HAVE DONE!

All caps is shouting. I'm only quoting what today's Jews say about themselves. God will judge you for rejecting truth and accepting a lie. He will also judge the religious-self-righteous who believe they have the right to judge the souls of believers in Christ. I find it interesting that you are so quick to condemn someone who has accepted the blood of Christ and Him as Savior while defending them who reject Christ as the Son of God. You should reflect on that fact and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

No you are repeating what is posted on ANTI SEMITIC, NEO NAZI and WHITE SUPREMACIST sites all over the world. The people you refer to are charlatans or their works are taken out of context. Next you will be quoting The Protocols as a work of fact and that it shows the Jews as wanting to dominate all mankind.

Wikipedia is an "anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi" site? Koestler's book is "White Supremacist?" LOL. Koestler was a Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist? Is that what you're really trying to say? The Jewish Almanac (and Jewish Encyclopedia) are "Anti-Semitic" literature? Alrighty then!!!

 

[DriftingSand]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

It's very nice that you are bringing up things which are so popular on the hate sites. There are other things, however, to consider such as the latest genetic testing. Say, can anyone tell us if King David was an Ashkenazi since he had red hair and I once read that many Russians have red hair?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html?_r=0

Tracing the Roots of Jewishness Science AAAS News

Who are the KHAZARS

Then we have this from a Kiki article

The Thirteenth Tribe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Genetic research[edit]
A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to the populations among whom they lived in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to Haplogroup R1a, the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow. Referencing The Thirteenth Tribe, the study's authors note that "Some authors argue that after the fall of their kingdom in the second half of the 10th century CE, the Khazar converts were absorbed by the emerging Ashkenazi Jewish community in Eastern Europe." They conclude: "However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim".[24]
Writing in Science, Michael Balter states Koestler's thesis "clash[es] with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots." He refers to a 2010 study by geneticist Harry Ostrer which found that Ashkenazi Jews "clustered more closely with Middle Eastern and Sephardic Jews, a finding the researchers say is inconsistent with the Khazar hypothesis" and concludes "that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations". Geneticist Noah Rosenberg asserts that although recent DNA studies "do not appear to support" the Khazar hypothesis, they do not "entirely eliminate it either."[25]




Looks like science and not fiction tells the truth about the Ashkenazi Jews, and Koestler himself says that the book is a work of fiction.

According to modern Scientists of Evolution man's DNA is closely related to monkeys and pigs. So, using your logic ...

 

[Phoenall]

Ok, we have all seen it posted time and time again that the Jews who now inhabit Israel are 'invaders' from Europe. I asked a question in one of the threads here about it and the answer was for me to look at a picture and tell from the color of the persons' skin and hair. Hmmm . . . . sound familiar?

So I decided to start a whole thread on the subject and to ask the question:

Who are the European Jews? Did they not ever come from Israel over the centuries? Can they not trace their maternal lineage to Abraham? If the answers to these three questions are negative, then are they converts to Judaism? Or did one or two of their (great) grandparents convert and that is how now they make their claim? Are you saying that their ancestors were not part of the expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans?

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I would really like to know why if a Jew comes from Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, why there is no ties to the land. . . . . .

The renowned and respected Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, aptly answers your questions in his great work, "The Thirteenth Tribe," in which he produces an accurate historical expose' on the European Jews (also known as the Ashkenazi). These "Jews" are converts to Judaism. The Khazars converted to Judaism (en masse) in the 8th Century A.D. Koestler calls his people "the thirteenth tribe" because they have no relation to the biblical 12 tribes of "true Israel." The bulk of today's Jews are simply an Asiatic people (related to the Huns and Moguls) that accepted the religion of Rabbinic Judaism. It's really that simple.

The Thirteenth Tribe The Kazar Empire and Its Heritage Arthur Koestler 9780445042421 Amazon.com Books

Yes a work of total fiction like so many other books much lauded by team Palestine. This is what the author of the wiki article has to say

That same year saw the publication of The Thirteenth Tribe, about the hypothetical Khazar origins of European Jewry.

Was Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, also a "fictional" character or was he a real life historian? Why do folks who disagree with something always have to attack the messenger instead of the message? Have you read the Thirteenth Tribe? If so, please explain in detail why you believe it's "fictional?"

Arthur Koestler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not pro-Koestler or anti-Koestler. I just know that he was a renowned and respected Jewish historian who thought it important enough to write about the origins of his people. Accept his detailed work or reject it but don't attack him or me simply because he wrote about things he knew about. That's a dishonest critique of the man AND his work.

He was real and he stated that his book was a work of fiction about the "hypothetical Khazar origins of European Jewry" The Khazars never existed outside of peoples fantasy world's much like the Jews described in The Protocols did not exist either.

 

[Phoenall]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

Anti Semites like "drifting shit" always navigate to other Jews haters like shit does to flies. Benjamin Freedman, a totally unqualified nobody who converted to Catholicism, and then became a professional moron. Oh but he was a Jew so I guess what he says counts. Ha ha ha. Here is your "Benjamin Freedman" and his shining resume:


Benjamin Harrison[1] Freedman (1890 – May 1984)[2] was an American businessman and anti-Zionist[3][4] activist, accused of anti-semitism by ideological opponents.[5][6][7] He converted fromJudaism to Roman Catholicism.[8] Freedman was a partner in a dermatological institute and in small business.

Benjamin H Freedman was listed on the letterhead of the Institute for Arab American Affairs and around 1946, along with his wife, listed as "R M Schoendorf" (Rose M. Schoendorf Freedman), "sponsored a series of advertisements under the imprint of 'The League for Peace with Justice in Palestine'".[11] In 1946 he sued the American Jewish Committee for libel and the case was thrown out in less than a month.

Freedman opposed the nomination of Anna M. Rosenberg to be Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1950.[21] An article in theADL Bulletin entitled The Plot Against Ann Rosenberg attributed the attacks on Rosenberg's loyalty to "professional anti-Semites and lunatic nationalists," including the "Jew-baiting cabal of John Rankin, Benjamin Freedman, and Gerald Smith."[7]

Freedman, an apostate Jew, was well known to the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee as an active supporter of the Arab cause in the Middle East. (fn 33) In the course of his erratic and often contradictory testimony before the Senate committee, Freedman revealed the roles played by anti-Semitic agitators and right-wing anticommunists — including Gerald L.K. Smith, Conde McGinley, the "Reverend" Wesley Swift, Congressman John Rankin, Senator Joseph McCarthy, and J.B. Matthews — in the campaign against the Rosenberg appointment. (fn 34)[7]

He is mentioned in a report by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

OH GEE, WHAT A GREAT GUY...ANTI AMERICAN, ANTI SEMITE, ISLAMOFACIST SUPPORTER, ETC. YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.

YUP, FACTS ARE FACTS!

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

Strange then how he attacked your source material and showed that the author was a known RACIST HOMOPHOBIC XENOPHOBE ( capitals for emphasis only ) and hardly a valid source of any facts being as he was biased in the extreme.

Does his and your hatred for Freedman (a Jew) and Koeslter (a Jew) make both of you "Jew haters?" I hate nobody. But I do embrace the truth and I share it when I find it.

How does stating the truth about a person make it hate speech, you sound like the neo Marxist P.C. scum we are battling against in the UK. The ones that say it is racism to complain about 1400 white girls getting raped by Pakistani muslim men, do you think the same way.

 

[Phoenall]

The 1984 Jewish Almanac says; "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew."

MAY GOD JUDGE YOU FOR THIS LIE AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE. WHAT A WICKED THING YOU HAVE DONE!

All caps is shouting. I'm only quoting what today's Jews say about themselves. God will judge you for rejecting truth and accepting a lie. He will also judge the religious-self-righteous who believe they have the right to judge the souls of believers in Christ. I find it interesting that you are so quick to condemn someone who has accepted the blood of Christ and Him as Savior while defending them who reject Christ as the Son of God. You should reflect on that fact and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

No you are repeating what is posted on ANTI SEMITIC, NEO NAZI and WHITE SUPREMACIST sites all over the world. The people you refer to are charlatans or their works are taken out of context. Next you will be quoting The Protocols as a work of fact and that it shows the Jews as wanting to dominate all mankind.

Wikipedia is an "anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi" site? Koestler's book is "White Supremacist?" LOL. Koestler was a Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist? Is that what you're really trying to say? The Jewish Almanac (and Jewish Encyclopedia) are "Anti-Semitic" literature? Alrighty then!!!

Definitely a neo Marxist who cant read English, were did I say that Wikipedia is an ANTI SEMITIC NEO NAZI site and that Koestlers book was WHITE SUPREMACIST. You can twist other peoples words all you want it wont wash anymore, your source for all your information is internet sites that publish what you want to see, the majority of these sites are

 

[Phoenall]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

It's very nice that you are bringing up things which are so popular on the hate sites. There are other things, however, to consider such as the latest genetic testing. Say, can anyone tell us if King David was an Ashkenazi since he had red hair and I once read that many Russians have red hair?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10jews.html?_r=0

Tracing the Roots of Jewishness Science AAAS News

Who are the KHAZARS

Then we have this from a Kiki article

The Thirteenth Tribe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Genetic research[edit]
A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to the populations among whom they lived in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to Haplogroup R1a, the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow. Referencing The Thirteenth Tribe, the study's authors note that "Some authors argue that after the fall of their kingdom in the second half of the 10th century CE, the Khazar converts were absorbed by the emerging Ashkenazi Jewish community in Eastern Europe." They conclude: "However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim".[24]
Writing in Science, Michael Balter states Koestler's thesis "clash[es] with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots." He refers to a 2010 study by geneticist Harry Ostrer which found that Ashkenazi Jews "clustered more closely with Middle Eastern and Sephardic Jews, a finding the researchers say is inconsistent with the Khazar hypothesis" and concludes "that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations". Geneticist Noah Rosenberg asserts that although recent DNA studies "do not appear to support" the Khazar hypothesis, they do not "entirely eliminate it either."[25]




Looks like science and not fiction tells the truth about the Ashkenazi Jews, and Koestler himself says that the book is a work of fiction.

According to modern Scientists of Evolution man's DNA is closely related to monkeys and pigs. So, using your logic ...

Yes that is correct and some of team Palestine tried to use that information to claim that the 90% match with primate DNA meant that Jews and Arabs had a closer match than Ashkenazi and Sephardic had. Like you they twisted the facts to provide evidence of their twisted POV. The science of DNA testing is one that can tell many things about a person, and one of these is the Human Genome or common ancestry that ties in 90% of everyones DNA being exactly the same. The problem lies in its placement on the double helix that sets each individual apart. This is why it is 100% accurate when it comes to matching even partial DNA at the scene of a crime with the criminal. The same method is used on old DNA from burial places to extract the most DNA and it is placed on a chart to get a match with other extracted DNA. So you see that genetics is a much abused science by the hate mongers and they will try and use one tiny aspect of DNA testing to prove a whole theory based on might have beens.
Now why don't the Ashkenazim show Khazar DNA in their genetic makeup if the book is based of fact as yiu are trying to claim.............................

 

[Roudy]

Another Jewish historian by the name of Benjamin Freedman also postulated that the majority of modern Jews are descendants of the Khazars in his booklet, "Facts are Facts." Freedman was raised in Judaism but converted to Catholicism and was an opponent of the Zionist movement:

Benjamin H. Freedman - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Facts are Facts: FACTS ARE FACTS including illustrations by Benjamin H. Freedman

Anti Semites like "drifting shit" always navigate to other Jews haters like shit does to flies. Benjamin Freedman, a totally unqualified nobody who converted to Catholicism, and then became a professional moron. Oh but he was a Jew so I guess what he says counts. Ha ha ha. Here is your "Benjamin Freedman" and his shining resume:


Benjamin Harrison[1] Freedman (1890 – May 1984)[2] was an American businessman and anti-Zionist[3][4] activist, accused of anti-semitism by ideological opponents.[5][6][7] He converted fromJudaism to Roman Catholicism.[8] Freedman was a partner in a dermatological institute and in small business.

Benjamin H Freedman was listed on the letterhead of the Institute for Arab American Affairs and around 1946, along with his wife, listed as "R M Schoendorf" (Rose M. Schoendorf Freedman), "sponsored a series of advertisements under the imprint of 'The League for Peace with Justice in Palestine'".[11] In 1946 he sued the American Jewish Committee for libel and the case was thrown out in less than a month.

Freedman opposed the nomination of Anna M. Rosenberg to be Assistant Secretary of Defense in 1950.[21] An article in theADL Bulletin entitled The Plot Against Ann Rosenberg attributed the attacks on Rosenberg's loyalty to "professional anti-Semites and lunatic nationalists," including the "Jew-baiting cabal of John Rankin, Benjamin Freedman, and Gerald Smith."[7]

Freedman, an apostate Jew, was well known to the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee as an active supporter of the Arab cause in the Middle East. (fn 33) In the course of his erratic and often contradictory testimony before the Senate committee, Freedman revealed the roles played by anti-Semitic agitators and right-wing anticommunists — including Gerald L.K. Smith, Conde McGinley, the "Reverend" Wesley Swift, Congressman John Rankin, Senator Joseph McCarthy, and J.B. Matthews — in the campaign against the Rosenberg appointment. (fn 34)[7]

He is mentioned in a report by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

OH GEE, WHAT A GREAT GUY...ANTI AMERICAN, ANTI SEMITE, ISLAMOFACIST SUPPORTER, ETC. YOU GOTTA LOVE HIM.

YUP, FACTS ARE FACTS!

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

Strange then how he attacked your source material and showed that the author was a known RACIST HOMOPHOBIC XENOPHOBE ( capitals for emphasis only ) and hardly a valid source of any facts being as he was biased in the extreme.

Does his and your hatred for Freedman (a Jew) and Koeslter (a Jew) make both of you "Jew haters?" I hate nobody. But I do embrace the truth and I share it when I find it.

Freedman is not a Jew, according to YOUR OWN SOURCE he converted and as a result became a virulent Jew and Israel hater. This phenomenon is not limited to Judaism only, people who convert out of any religion, be it Islam or Christianity, tend to hate members of their previous religion.

You're drifting shit again, Drifter.

 

[Roudy]

That myth-crap of 'Khazars,' pushed by R. Islamists and Neo-Nazis alike

January 18, 2012 at 2:41:19 PM PST

Ever heard about the 'Khazar' myth pushed by the Neo-Nazis/KKK?

In fact, Jews are both a nation and a religion. the percentage of those with any roots in khazaria is so minimal, that there was only one non-historian "writer" that came up with the idea to say that the percentage is higher. As a penpal who is of Jewish background told me once: 'Before the WW2 Were were told to go BACK to Palestine where we came from... now the same haters don't even grant us that...'

Hitler VS Khazar myth

Oddly enough, Hitler's "aryanism" and anti-Jewish sick obession was AGAINST The 'khazar" myth, of course. But his followers wouldn't care about consistency. Just as the crazy inconsistent Nazis themselves preferred long-nosed-Muslim Bosnians over Christian Serbs. Hitler [despite his alliance with fascist Arab-Islamic leadership to exterminate the Jews out of bilnd hatred] refused to drink coffee with the Arab Mufti al-Husseini or shake his hands, Arabs in Germany were subject to the same 'racial' treatments as Jews were. Clearly, they liked power and "ideology' was not the only thing motivating them.

Haters always had the contradictions. You can not "blame" the Jews for (some of them) agreeing with the Romans to kill Jesus and then contradict yourself in saying they are not the same Israelites/Hebrews/Jews... LOL

Luckilly for the recent DNA testing, this myth has (also) been exposed as a LIE.

SPME: Steven Plaut: The Khazar Myth and the New Anti-Semitism -

... Some two hundred websites claim to describe a cabal known as the "Khazarian Zionist Bolsheviks" (KZV). Neo-Nazi and Holocaust denial organizations and websites are particularly fond of the Khazar myth...Arab and Islamist propagandists have long bandied about the "Ashkenazim as Khazars" theory and Iran’s genocidal leaders adore it. Al-Jazeera has been using the Khazar story to urge a worldwide Christian religious war against the Khazar pseudo-Jewish imperialists.


Groups promoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion often cite the nefarious role of Khazars as "proof" of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy (I counted 700 such websites). And even Jewish anti-Zionist cranks like Alfred M. Lilienthal and the Swedish "Israel Shamir" have used the Khazar myth to attack Zionism.

Why are these various groups suddenly interested in a rather esoteric and archaic group of people in Central Asia that disappeared nearly a millennium ago?

The answer is very simple.

According to the Khazar theory of the new anti-Semites, most Jews today, particularly Ashkenazi Jews, are not racially Jews at all but descendents from the Turkic tribe of Khazars, whose ruling class and parts of its rank and file population converted to Judaism in the 8th or early 9th century CE. Hence, argue the racialists, Ashkenazi Jews have no rights to live in the racially Semitic Middle East and especially not in the Land of Israel.

 

[Roudy]

[QUOTE="Phoenall, post: 9944852, membe E

Another yuppy who resorts to name-calling when he lacks the facts to defend his incorrect position. Don't like Obama? You're a "racist." Don't agree with gay marriage? You're a "homophobe." Believe in a secure border? You're a "xenophobe." Don't believe that today's Jews are related to biblical Israel? You're a "Jew hater." See how it works folks. Attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

Just posted what your own source Wikipedia says about your hero "Benjamin Freedman". So yes, if you're quoting people like David Duke, then chances are you guys think alike.

Are you trying to say you're not a Jew hater, weasel? Then stop quoting career Jew haters. Simple. Ha ha ha.