Abraham Lincoln uncensored

[gipper]

You mean lincolns own words and actions? Lol ok

Not everyone looks at his actions the way you do, TN. And I still think even the South and even the descendants of slaves here ought to thank him for pulling us back together and eventually stopping the kicking and screaming over being able to own human beings.

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

 

[SandSquid]

I doubt that. In the 1940s harvesting machinery was making manual labor finally obsolete. So with that the value of owning black people would have been lost. now what would have happened to those people when they had no value is another story had the Confederacy been allowed to stay.

Slavery could have ended long before the 1940s. The cost of the war of northern aggression was billions of dollars, in 1860s dollars. Had cooler more intelligent heads prevailed, the slave owners could have been more cheaply bought off.

The war would have been averted entirely, had Lincoln overturned the Morrill Tariff or Buchanan vetoed it.

There was no war of northern aggression.

LOL. Once again you prove you’re ignorant.

Who invaded whom? Who used force to obtain it’s goal? Who refused a peaceful approach?

Had Lincoln followed the constitution, there wouldn’t have been a war. He chose war and tyranny which should have resulted in his removal from office in 1861.

The south started by attacking a federal installation.

That same simpleton argument always presented by the Lincoln cultist. So in your mind, the north had to go war over a fort they fully intended to evacuate and the bombing of which by SC, resulted in no casualties. Too fucking funny. Do you cultists ever tire?

At any rate, it is well known that Lincoln set up events at Fort Sumter. If you disagree, then you expose yourself as uninformed.

Yes, Lincoln intended to fortify US federal properties. The south had already overrun hundreds of them and forced the surrender of 1/4 of his army at gunpoint.

Sorry but your lazy tired white supremacist lost cause conspiracy doesn't hold up to actual history.

At what point would we consider it war if the USSR was overtaking our bases across the world? How many hours of bombardment should a US base take before we consider retaliation?

 

[OldLady]

Not everyone looks at his actions the way you do, TN. And I still think even the South and even the descendants of slaves here ought to thank him for pulling us back together and eventually stopping the kicking and screaming over being able to own human beings.

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

No way.

Oh? What would have ended it?

I think that it would have ended with the 1940's farming revolution, when sharecropping finally saw it's twilight (just a guess). At that point, new
mechanized harvesting equipment was being made reliably and able to take over the hand harvesting which relied on manual labor. Figure another decade for the pressure from outside to outweigh the reward for them.

As for what would happen next is anyone’s guess. The south had made it abundantly clear they didn’t want free blacks with rights. Germany at that same time made it clear they didn’t want free Jews with rights, and would have been left to their own devices how to solve that issue had they not also chosen to invade Europe. Genocide was quite common in that time when a government felt a population was a detriment to their society. Pol Pot killed millions in genocide with no repurcussions internationally, Burundi, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Iraq...

At the best, we’d have an apartheid rule. 2nd class citizens with no rights, separate pay, etc...

But that is my guess. In the 60’s states in the south were STILL rejecting ratifying the 13th amendment, and one state didn’t officially ratify it until just 6 years ago. There’s the possibility that they would have held onto slavery much longer, just “cull the herd” so to speak to an acceptable level in a post-manual harvesting world. It’s all a guess, but mine is sometime soon after those mid-1940’s farming changes.

one state didn’t officially ratify it until just 6 years ago.
Which state was that?

 

[gipper]

Slavery could have ended long before the 1940s. The cost of the war of northern aggression was billions of dollars, in 1860s dollars. Had cooler more intelligent heads prevailed, the slave owners could have been more cheaply bought off.

The war would have been averted entirely, had Lincoln overturned the Morrill Tariff or Buchanan vetoed it.

There was no war of northern aggression.

LOL. Once again you prove you’re ignorant.

Who invaded whom? Who used force to obtain it’s goal? Who refused a peaceful approach?

Had Lincoln followed the constitution, there wouldn’t have been a war. He chose war and tyranny which should have resulted in his removal from office in 1861.

The south started by attacking a federal installation.

That same simpleton argument always presented by the Lincoln cultist. So in your mind, the north had to go war over a fort they fully intended to evacuate and the bombing of which by SC, resulted in no casualties. Too fucking funny. Do you cultists ever tire?

At any rate, it is well known that Lincoln set up events at Fort Sumter. If you disagree, then you expose yourself as uninformed.

Yes, Lincoln intended to fortify US federal properties. The south had already overrun hundreds of them and forced the surrender of 1/4 of his army at gunpoint.

Sorry but your lazy tired white supremacist lost cause conspiracy doesn't hold up to actual history.

At what point would we consider it war if the USSR was overtaking our bases across the world? How many hours of bombardment should a US base take before we consider retaliation?

Too dumb to comment.

 

[SandSquid]

Not everyone looks at his actions the way you do, TN. And I still think even the South and even the descendants of slaves here ought to thank him for pulling us back together and eventually stopping the kicking and screaming over being able to own human beings.

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

 

[SandSquid]

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

No way.

Oh? What would have ended it?

I think that it would have ended with the 1940's farming revolution, when sharecropping finally saw it's twilight (just a guess). At that point, new
mechanized harvesting equipment was being made reliably and able to take over the hand harvesting which relied on manual labor. Figure another decade for the pressure from outside to outweigh the reward for them.

As for what would happen next is anyone’s guess. The south had made it abundantly clear they didn’t want free blacks with rights. Germany at that same time made it clear they didn’t want free Jews with rights, and would have been left to their own devices how to solve that issue had they not also chosen to invade Europe. Genocide was quite common in that time when a government felt a population was a detriment to their society. Pol Pot killed millions in genocide with no repurcussions internationally, Burundi, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Iraq...

At the best, we’d have an apartheid rule. 2nd class citizens with no rights, separate pay, etc...

But that is my guess. In the 60’s states in the south were STILL rejecting ratifying the 13th amendment, and one state didn’t officially ratify it until just 6 years ago. There’s the possibility that they would have held onto slavery much longer, just “cull the herd” so to speak to an acceptable level in a post-manual harvesting world. It’s all a guess, but mine is sometime soon after those mid-1940’s farming changes.

one state didn’t officially ratify it until just 6 years ago.
Which state was that?

Mississippi I think.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

I heard a guy called Adolf didn’t like Jewish people, a number of years ago also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Faun]

I doubt that. In the 1940s harvesting machinery was making manual labor finally obsolete. So with that the value of owning black people would have been lost. now what would have happened to those people when they had no value is another story had the Confederacy been allowed to stay.

Slavery could have ended long before the 1940s. The cost of the war of northern aggression was billions of dollars, in 1860s dollars. Had cooler more intelligent heads prevailed, the slave owners could have been more cheaply bought off.

The war would have been averted entirely, had Lincoln overturned the Morrill Tariff or Buchanan vetoed it.

There was no war of northern aggression.

LOL. Once again you prove you’re ignorant.

Who invaded whom? Who used force to obtain it’s goal? Who refused a peaceful approach?

Had Lincoln followed the constitution, there wouldn’t have been a war. He chose war and tyranny which should have resulted in his removal from office in 1861.

The south started by attacking a federal installation.

That same simpleton argument always presented by the Lincoln cultist. So in your mind, the north had to go war over a fort they fully intended to evacuate and the bombing of which by SC, resulted in no casualties. Too fucking funny. Do you cultists ever tire?

At any rate, it is well known that Lincoln set up events at Fort Sumter. If you disagree, then you expose yourself as uninformed.

Bullshit. The uniformed one is you. Lincoln notified South Carolina he was sending in supplies, which was his right to supply a federal fort, after the south tried to cut off supplies to the fort. It was the south who demanded the federal government surrender the fort to them and then opened fire on it when they didn't.

I don't care how ignorant you are, you cons can't rewrite history

 

[Dale Smith]

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

 

[Faun]

Not everyone looks at his actions the way you do, TN. And I still think even the South and even the descendants of slaves here ought to thank him for pulling us back together and eventually stopping the kicking and screaming over being able to own human beings.

850,000 dead Americans and half the nation destroyed to prevent the South from leaving. Much better to let them leave peacefully.

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Liar, the south put it in writing.-- slavery was the overwhelming reason for why they seceded.

I don't care how ignorant you cons are, you can't rewrite history.

 

[SandSquid]

Had Lincoln let the south secede, slavery might still be legal in the confederacy.

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

 

[Dale Smith]

Not a chance. It was on its way out in 1861.

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

 

[gipper]

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

The Lincoln cultist ignores Lincoln’s obvious tyrannical actions and then venerates the mass murdering asshole.

 

[SandSquid]

If that were true, the south wouldn't have seceded.

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

Well while slavery was allowed in the US at the time, it was being wiped out Country by Country in the western hemisphere. The US was the last holdout for slavery in North America. Like Lincoln said in his inaugurational speech and in letters to the leading secessionists, his desire to end slavery was their major fight. They knew he opposed slavery and if given the opportunity would try and end it (which he did).

I’d suggest you read the articles of secession. The speeches of secession commissioners, the speeches of people like Jefferson Davis to the Mississippi senate saying once Lincoln declared his presidential run that if an abolitionist (his term for Republicans) won the presidency, they would need a revolution. Or the VP of the confederacy calling protecting slavery and their belief that blacks should be subjugated the Cornerstone of their government. They called slavery the “ONLY” reason, the “Overwhelming” reason. The minutes of secession where secessionists laid out their reasons (protect slavery, expand slavery, more rights for slave owners) would be a good spot as well. Tennessee would be a fine one. Gov Harris there used his emergency powers to hold a secession convention. From that Tennessee came up with 23 complaints, and 7 amendments requested for them to decide against secession. 21 of those complaints were about slavery. All 7 amendments requested were about protecting or expanding slavery. THAT is what they wanted.


As for the Emancipation Proclamation, there’s some primary source history there. First, the states around Washington DC, and DC itself were all slave states, that still had yet to secede early in that time. To make a goal of the war explicitly about slavery from day 1, likely could have meant Lincoln could wave a white flag out of the White House, located in the Confederacy on day 2 and pushed those states to secession (Virginia left anyways). Lincoln was also working a different plan early on. Compensated emancipation. When that idea failed, he moved on to the non-compensated Emancipation Proclamation. Lincolns Sec of State (Seward) recommended to him that if he was going to go through with it, he should wait until a decisive US victory so it didn’t look like he was doing it out of fear of losing the war. So a few days after that decisive victory at Antietam that had Lee in retreat he announced his EP based on his cabinets recommendations. Remember, before that he was fighting to have slaves reclassified as “contraband” so that the Fugitive slave law wouldn’t apply and they wouldn’t be returned. He was freeing the slaves in DC. He was freeing the slaves in federal ports and bases.

States that didn't rebel were allowed to keep their slaves. The EP was based on Lincoln saying that states in Rebellion were not protected by the Constitution. Dred Scott case made the right to own slaves a Constitutionally protected one. In the US, we don't have a monarch. Congress and the states hold the power for an amendment to the Constitution to eradicate slavery, not an executive order. It literally was not something he could do. Lincoln did pressure those states to abolish slavery and many did in the North before the end of the war. And of course he fought like hell for the 13th amendment, even postponing any peace talks and lying about their chances for peace talks to get the 13th passed by Congress before the southern states would be readmitted to Congress.

Saying Lincoln didn't want to end slavery because of that reason is like saying Trump doesn't want border security since it's been over 2 years without his wall. It's not based in the reality of how the US political system works with the separation of government.

 

[SandSquid]

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

The Lincoln cultist ignores Lincoln’s obvious tyrannical actions and then venerates the mass murdering asshole.

lol. You and actual source history mix together like oil and water don't you. Tell me, do you pride yourself on that? That you can look at source history and completely ignore it and decide to instead keep an ignorant opinion based on fairy tales? Is that something you truly are proud about yourself for doing? Do you brag things like "you think that guys gullible... well you should see me!"

I get it. You love those old tired lazy debunked white supremacist lost cause myths. You want to be a mouthpiece for the pro-slavery anti-black factions that promoted them. Got it.

 

[OldLady]

You've taught me a lot about the Civil War, Sand Squid. How do you come to know so much about it? Are you a teacher?

 

[Dale Smith]

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

The Lincoln cultist ignores Lincoln’s obvious tyrannical actions and then venerates the mass murdering asshole.

lol. You and actual source history mix together like oil and water don't you. Tell me, do you pride yourself on that? That you can look at source history and completely ignore it and decide to instead keep an ignorant opinion based on fairy tales? Is that something you truly are proud about yourself for doing? Do you brag things like "you think that guys gullible... well you should see me!"

I get it. You love those old tired lazy debunked white supremacist lost cause myths. You want to be a mouthpiece for the pro-slavery anti-black factions that promoted them. Got it.

Gipper is a sharp poster and no one I know personally is a "white supremacist" and he (like myself) know that history isn't what we were told. The same people that subsidize and fund the educational curriculum also told the sheeple that a central bank is a very goooood thing. The 14 amendment rid us of involuntary servitude. We are debt slaves whose sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt of USA.INC. Do you know what the original 13th amendment was?

 

[Dale Smith]

Wrong. All Lincoln had to do was terminate the Morrill Tariff, and south wouldn’t have seceded. He made it clear in his inaugural speech slavery was safe, but you better pay the tariffs or we will kill you.

Ahhh the Morrill tariff.. Remember that wasn't in place when the South seceded. The tariff in place was the Tariff of 1858. Written by the eventual Sec of State of the Confederacy, and passed unanimously by the Senate in states that seceded.

NOT ONE article of secession mentions the Morrill tariff. But revisionists want to write it in, to pretend that the South seceded over the tariff THEY wrote, that THEY put in place and that THEY ensured was the lowest tariff rate in 60 years (and lower than any Confederate States Tariff).

Funny thing. That tariff only passed BECAUSE of secession. That's right, it passed by 11 votes in the senate, with 14 no shows from the 7 states in the south that already had seceded. The ONLY way for the Morrill tariff to pass would have been for the southerners to vote FOR it, or for them to secede and not vote.

Not enough states tom hold a quorum which was why Lincoln "incorporated" America. Where is the treaty after the end of the war?Hmmmmm? Why are we still under the Lieber Code? Points to ponder.

Again, not one article for secession mentioned the Morrill tariff as a reason for secession. They said it was protecting and expanding slavery from a government that was pushing opposition to it.

Some people will read the minutes from the secession conventions, like Georgia's for example where they mentioned slavery 214 times and US tariffs zero times and say they wanted secession over slavery and not tariffs. Others will want to rewrite history and say they wanted it over tariffs.

But slavery was allowed even in the Union states and states that sat out the war were allowed to keep their slaves......so why did it take two years into the war for the Lincoln proclamation?

Well while slavery was allowed in the US at the time, it was being wiped out Country by Country in the western hemisphere. The US was the last holdout for slavery in North America. Like Lincoln said in his inaugurational speech and in letters to the leading secessionists, his desire to end slavery was their major fight. They knew he opposed slavery and if given the opportunity would try and end it (which he did).

I’d suggest you read the articles of secession. The speeches of secession commissioners, the speeches of people like Jefferson Davis to the Mississippi senate saying once Lincoln declared his presidential run that if an abolitionist (his term for Republicans) won the presidency, they would need a revolution. Or the VP of the confederacy calling protecting slavery and their belief that blacks should be subjugated the Cornerstone of their government. They called slavery the “ONLY” reason, the “Overwhelming” reason. The minutes of secession where secessionists laid out their reasons (protect slavery, expand slavery, more rights for slave owners) would be a good spot as well. Tennessee would be a fine one. Gov Harris there used his emergency powers to hold a secession convention. From that Tennessee came up with 23 complaints, and 7 amendments requested for them to decide against secession. 21 of those complaints were about slavery. All 7 amendments requested were about protecting or expanding slavery. THAT is what they wanted.


As for the Emancipation Proclamation, there’s some primary source history there. First, the states around Washington DC, and DC itself were all slave states, that still had yet to secede early in that time. To make a goal of the war explicitly about slavery from day 1, likely could have meant Lincoln could wave a white flag out of the White House, located in the Confederacy on day 2 and pushed those states to secession (Virginia left anyways). Lincoln was also working a different plan early on. Compensated emancipation. When that idea failed, he moved on to the non-compensated Emancipation Proclamation. Lincolns Sec of State (Seward) recommended to him that if he was going to go through with it, he should wait until a decisive US victory so it didn’t look like he was doing it out of fear of losing the war. So a few days after that decisive victory at Antietam that had Lee in retreat he announced his EP based on his cabinets recommendations. Remember, before that he was fighting to have slaves reclassified as “contraband” so that the Fugitive slave law wouldn’t apply and they wouldn’t be returned. He was freeing the slaves in DC. He was freeing the slaves in federal ports and bases.

States that didn't rebel were allowed to keep their slaves. The EP was based on Lincoln saying that states in Rebellion were not protected by the Constitution. Dred Scott case made the right to own slaves a Constitutionally protected one. In the US, we don't have a monarch. Congress and the states hold the power for an amendment to the Constitution to eradicate slavery, not an executive order. It literally was not something he could do. Lincoln did pressure those states to abolish slavery and many did in the North before the end of the war. And of course he fought like hell for the 13th amendment, even postponing any peace talks and lying about their chances for peace talks to get the 13th passed by Congress before the southern states would be readmitted to Congress.

Saying Lincoln didn't want to end slavery because of that reason is like saying Trump doesn't want border security since it's been over 2 years without his wall. It's not based in the reality of how the US political system works with the separation of government.

There was no functioning government during the Civil War. A corporate entity? Yep, but not a constitutional republic set forth by the founders of the united states for America.

 

[SandSquid]

You've taught me a lot about the Civil War, Sand Squid. How do you come to know so much about it? Are you a teacher?

No, just a student. I grew up in North Florida. Was in 5th grade I think when we took a trip to the northeast. Realized what I'd been taught wasn't right, and that the "other guys" in the war weren't some foreign country but other Americans. I believed the lost cause crap most of my life until I started looking into primary source history on it, and it was lying directly against source history. Decided I didn't want to be taken advantage of by those lies again, so I've studied quite a bit on it, not so much from authors and historians and their stories... But right to the source. That way there's nobody else injecting their interpretation.

 

[gipper]

Slavery could have ended long before the 1940s. The cost of the war of northern aggression was billions of dollars, in 1860s dollars. Had cooler more intelligent heads prevailed, the slave owners could have been more cheaply bought off.

The war would have been averted entirely, had Lincoln overturned the Morrill Tariff or Buchanan vetoed it.

There was no war of northern aggression.

LOL. Once again you prove you’re ignorant.

Who invaded whom? Who used force to obtain it’s goal? Who refused a peaceful approach?

Had Lincoln followed the constitution, there wouldn’t have been a war. He chose war and tyranny which should have resulted in his removal from office in 1861.

The south started by attacking a federal installation.

That same simpleton argument always presented by the Lincoln cultist. So in your mind, the north had to go war over a fort they fully intended to evacuate and the bombing of which by SC, resulted in no casualties. Too fucking funny. Do you cultists ever tire?

At any rate, it is well known that Lincoln set up events at Fort Sumter. If you disagree, then you expose yourself as uninformed.

Bullshit. The uniformed one is you. Lincoln notified South Carolina he was sending in supplies, which was his right to supply a federal fort, after the south tried to cut off supplies to the fort. It was the south who demanded the federal government surrender the fort to them and then opened fire on it when they didn't.

I don't care how ignorant you are, you cons can't rewrite history

You really believe that? Lincoln set it up to look like the SC started it all. He knew he couldn’t supply the fort and protect it from the shore batteries. It was a false flag operation, but you bought it.