Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

[GreatestIam]

she had already sinned in her heart

Sin needs to have an evil intent to be an actual sin.

Look up mens rea, Latin for evil heart or evil intent.

Eve had yet to know anything about good and evil and thus could not have an evil intent.

Did you not note that she had many good reasons and did not mention anything evil.

I think you are trying to fool us by indicating that Eve had eaten of the tree of knowledge prior to doing so.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Can anyone imagine........someone like Hilter being immortal?

Can anyone imagine God deciding to create such a moral monster?

Only a real prick of a God would create such a person.

Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Clyde 154]

Sin needs to have an evil intent to be an actual sin.

Look up mens rea, Latin for evil heart or evil intent.

Eve had yet to know anything about good and evil and thus could not have an evil intent.

Did you not note that she had many good reasons and did not mention anything evil.

I think you are trying to fool us by indicating that Eve had eaten of the tree of knowledge prior to doing so.

Regards
DL

Who said that Eve's desires were EVIL? You? I most certainly did not. Eve's sin was her desire to become god. Sin is not dependent upon the nature of intent, but fulfillment of one's heart's desire when that desire is against the law of God. Eve's sin was not based upon choosing between evil and good, as the scriptures are clear, she did not possess this ability until after she broke the law of God. (Genesis 3:22) It was only after Adam and Eve had assess to the knowledge of good and evil where they banned from the Garden before they could assess the tree of life and live forever with this gift of comprehending evil and good. (Genesis 3:22-24)

Not all sin is based upon EVIL intent.......there are many people who sin thinking they are doinig nothing wrong......but Adam and Eve knew before they sinned that it was against the law of God to eat from the tree of knowledge, it was desire that overcome both of them.....that desire was not described in scripture as being evil in and by itself............it had the potential of becoming evil after man gained the knowledge from the tree of knowledge in knowing that evil and good exists. God banned them before they could live forever without the wisdom (omniscience) to control that knowledge. As stated clearly in Genesis 3:23-24)

And...... you are not attempting to argue with me, you are arguing with Christ Jesus based upon HIS WORD -- Matthew 5:28 (as I never stated that Eve's sin was based upon evil......but lust, lust is a human condition or sexual relations would not be possible......Eve therefore was created with LUST/DESIRE for Adam, and she misapplied this lust to desire to become deified ....i.e., godlike).......basically, just as Jesus reasoned in Matthew 5:28, when you make up your mind to move forward with the lust found in your heart, you have already sinned by omission, not comission........no one can sin without making up their mind to sin. Its much like the difference between an accident and an act of premeditation.....its the premeditation that is paramount, the penalty for accidentally causing harm to another is of a forgivable nature. But.......it was God who inspired the Apostle to record, "If God sparred not the angels that sinned......(their sin? Their desire to be like God)..." -- 2 Peter 2:4



Read Christ's words of wisdom concerning desire and allowing it to overtake your common senses, as recorded in Matthew 5:28-30. Sin originates in the heart and is fulfilled when one allows that heart desire to grow until it is exercised........Both Adam and Eve's sin were not based upon being deceived as neither could have been decieved....there was only one simple law........do not eat of the tree of knowledge, Their original sin was not the fact they attempted to lie to God or that Adam attempted to blame his wife..........the orginal sin was their desire to accept Satan's word over God's law in their desire to become ".....like one of us....." (Genesis 3:22) As Jesus stated its best to lose an eye or a limb (the proverbial lust of one's heart) than to burn in hell and allow this desire to grow into fulfillment.......you should cut it off at its roots (in the heart).

Both Adam and Eve knew and comprehended the law of God and the punishment for breaking that law......yet they allowed their heart's desire to grow instead of stopping it at its root. Thus.........Eve's sin was based upon Her desire to become deity......she was anything but innocent.

 

[GreatestIam]

Who said that Eve's desires were EVIL?

No one.

That was the point.

If you look up mens rea you will note that without an evil intent, there is no sin or crime.

like if a baby or an insane person accidently killed people.

Regards
DL

 

[Clyde 154]

No one.

That was the point.

If you look up mens rea you will note that without an evil intent, there is no sin or crime.

like if a baby or an insane person accidently killed people.

Regards
DL

It never fails.....when one can't stand up to the actual content of the Word of God........they attempt to deflect by quoting from MAN MADE TRADITIONAL doctrine not found in the word of God. The Bible declares SIN CANNOT EXIST without a LAW that defines sin (Romans 5:13)......the Bible never states that Sin cannot exist without evil intent. Your own logic contradicts you. You declare that Eve was innocent because she could not comprehend good from evil.........but all she had to compredend was one simple LAW......Do not eat from the tree of knowledge or you shall surely die. There was no evil mentioned in that law as she could not have comprehended evil from good (why would God punish someone for anything they could not know was wrong? He could not and would not, as evidenced by Blessed are the Children and Blessed are the poor in spirit (poor in mind), becuse theirs is the kingdom of heaven, meaning you cannot sin without being able to comprehend the law that defines sin, such as a child that has not reached age of reason, or any individual who is menatlly handicaped from birth).

Thus, she, Eve, was punished for breaking the law (she practiced lawlessness) because of a desire in her heart to become deity........." like one of us".... Genesis 3:22 She was not punished because she was EVIL.......she was punished because she practiced "LAWLESSNESS".

Again........you are not arguing with "ME", I simply presented the Book, Chapter and Verse that verifed why I came to a truthful conclusion that EVE was not innocent and punished unjustly (She practiced LAWLESSNESS both in her heart with premeditation and in actuality by freely breaking the ONE LAW that God declared they had to obey......all based upon the actual content of the Word of God........you are attempting to argue doctrine with the Holy Spirit of God that inspired that word to script. (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Look it up? If you want to look up truth, you go to the source.........the Word of God. "Sanctify them by your truth......YOUR WORD is truth." -- John 17:17. The word of God was presented to you in defining that truth (Matthew 5:28) when Jesus declared that Sin orginates in the heart and is held accountable when that desire/lust is fulfilled with premeditation.

The Scriptures define sin......and no where does the "qualifier" EVIL INTENT define sin. Sin is the breaking of God's law, there is no condition of evil intent presented as what constitues sin.........the world is filled with sinners who attempt to justify their sins as not being evil in nature.......just like Adam and Eve attempted to deflect from their sins by feigning ignorance of God's only law at that time with the claim they sinned because of deception when they fully comprehended THE LAW and the PUNISHMENT for breaking that law (Death). Death is the wage for ALL SIN.......not just evil sin. (Romans 6:23)

There are many places in the Word of God that defines sin. I present "2" with no ambiguity possible for anyone that can read simple English. "Anyone who makes a practice of sinning (meaning premeditated) also practices LAWLESSNESS, sin is LAWLESSNESS" -- 1 John 3:4 (ESV)

"NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS TO ME (Christ Jesus), will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father (Gods Law). On that day many will say to Me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and do mighty works in your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you.......depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." -- Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV).....English Standard Version

The "2" passages alone define sin as Lawlessness....i.e., the breaking of God's law........ proving that sin, Just as Jesus described in Matthew 5 can orginate with premeditation of the heart without there ever being an intent of evil.....as desire/lust is a natural condition of all humanity........it also proves those with no evil intent whatsoever (those who work in the name God and claim too prophesy and cast out demons) can practice lawlessness......because TRUTH is fundamental to God's will.


Jesus described His mission statement in coming to earth as God Incarnate......the Son of God/ the King of Kings was a mission of promoting Truth from Heaven and He that accepted that truth He knew........those that rejected that truth He denied (John 18:37)

 

[Cougarbear]

Why are you choosing to sin to be saved instead of doing the moral and proper thing?

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

You are mistaken from your first words and on. We are human and do not always do the moral and proper thing. Wokeism is a perfect example of people th aninking they are being moral and doing the proper thing but are not according to God. To secularists, morality and good are only a relative thing based on society norms. Thus, killing of a human unborn baby is moral to the secularist because of the selfish woman. Eve was not selfish. But, she still transgressed the law.

Because of your relativism about what is right and wrong, you have to say Jesus is unjust when it comes to sin and the punishment for sin. Now, who are you to decide good or evil when it is based on relativism and the society's norm? God? It's fantastic that we can come to this earth, receive a body to house our spirit bodies and intelligences, be tried and tested concerning our faith in the Godhead, make human mistakes that are against the commandments and laws of God called sin and yet have a Savior provided for us to wash away our sins. And, this atonement is not a get out of jail for free at all. First, one must recognize their sins. Then, repent of their sins and make all possible restitution that the sins caused. Nothing is free when it comes to the atonement. I will agree with you that many of the Christian sects teach incorrect truth about the atonement and repentance. Catholics have what they call "Indulgences" that priests hand out at certain times of the year that pre-forgive a person so they can just go sin with no consequences. Marte Gra is one of those times.
Then, you twist the meaning of Ezekiel 18:20. That is about earthly parents and children, not Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ, his Son. What Ezekiel is saying is that each person is accountable for their own sins and not the sins of others. But, at the same point, if a father teaches their children wrong, then the fathers can be held accountable which protects the children in this case. There is possible redemption later on in the Spirit Prison where Christ went to teach and preach. I think you need to get a much greater understanding of the concept of law and punishment and how it works in the church of God. There is eternal punishment for those who do not repent through the atonement. Even the Atonement of Jesus Christ won't save those who refuse to repent of their sins or try to justify their sins based on secular wokeism of our times.

 

[GreatestIam]

Jesus described His mission

Yes, and you are ignoring his teaching on dying for you.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Stop asking Jesus to sin for you by breaking his law.

He follows secular law where you pay for your own shit.

Man up.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Even the Atonement of Jesus Christ

Which he cannot be, as that would have him break his law, as quoted and conveniently ignored.

Nice deflection attempt though.

It must be a copy past.

Get thee behind me Satan.

Regards
DL

 

[Clyde 154]

Yes, and you are ignoring his teaching on dying for you.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Stop asking Jesus to sin for you by breaking his law.

He follows secular law where you pay for your own shit.

Man up.

Regards
DL

Yeah.......that "splains" it. Eve was not responsible for her Lawlessness because HER MOTHER (ADAM's DNA from a RIB) was not responsible for EVE'S own lawlessness. What part of Lawless do you not comprehend? Your own scriptures contradict your arugment.........SIN is imparted based upon each person's lawlessness. You have not even come close to proving via the Word of God that Eve was innocent of being lawless where there was only ONE LAW, and she was gulity of directly disobeying it.

Please explain how Ez. 18:20 or Deut. 24:16 dismisses sin as being an act of lawlessness on the part of the one committing the sin of ignorning God's law? There was only 1 possiblity of committing sin in the Garden under the care of God almighty.......to ignore God's only law, and it had nothing to do with EVIL or another's sin.........Adam was convicted of Sin (as he head of the woman) because Eve freely chose to accept the word of Satan/aka. the Serpent in the Garden over God's only law.

Her resoning is explained also......Satan promised Her and Adam who was head of the household and responsible for Eve's actions that they could become gods, and the scriptures confirm such (Genesis 3:22).......the man and thus WO (from man) Man have become like "......one of us...." the Godhead to know (comprehend good and evil). Before that time EVIL did not exist because neither Adam nor Eve comprehened evil..........the only thing they knew was the content of their hearts which desired to become like gods......as explained futher, they were banned before they could eat of the tree of life and LIVE FOREVER (Genesis 3:22-24).

Sin came into the world because both Adam and Eve practiced Lawlessness........which was first conceived in their own hearts by free will when they accepted the words of Satan over the Word of God (THE LAW). Sin was imputed upon Adam the first man because the woman was made for him........not he for her, as explained by the Apostles. Adam should have listened to the law of God, not his subportant spouse or advise from Satan.......who is a liar and the father of it. ( Romans 5 and 1 John 3:4) to be convicted of sin.......one must freely choose to engage in a sinful act and the punishment fell upon all men not because Adam or Eve sinned but rather because ALL MEN that has ever existed upon earth has choosen to sin and face the wages thereof (physical death will always be the wages of sin) .....except one (The Son of Man.......aka., the Son of God who was tempted like all men but sinned not.......he was tempted like everyone else because when He came to earth he emptied Himslef of deity even to the point of death and became subject to the law as are all men/WO (from man)MEN. (Phil. 2:5-8).

There are a few examples of God taking men to heaven without death in scripture........because He justified such......and those whom were healed by the power of God when Jesus prayed directly to His Father in Heaven to bring life back into their flesh......having nothing to do with sin, but rather a demonstration of Jesus' authority granted to Him by the Father (conformation that His messages were truth from God). Only God can control life and death in a supernatural fashion.

Slavation through Grace is applied to the Spiritual Life of man, not his flesh which goes back to earth when the spirit leaves the body. (Eccl. 12:7) man's spirit goes back to God, the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth (Eccl.3:21).....Physical death is described in scripture as the point in which the spirit separates from the flesh (Ps. 104:29).

Name any other name under heaven and earth (other than Jesus) whose body has not gone back to the earth AFTER HIS/HER SPIRIT leaves him/her because sin entered the world through the lawlessness of the first man ADAM? A man's body will always die and decay (thanks to Adam and Eve, leaving the Garden and access to the tree of life because of sin entering the world)....but the spirit which was made in the image of God (as God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth --John 4:24).........is eternal and shall face the final judgment as determined by the Books. The Holy Sciptures...i.e., the inspired words of God as presented to the authors of the different books of the bible by the Holy Spirit of God -- 2 Tim. 3:16 and the Book of Life (a record as to one's actions while on earth) -- Revelation 20:12

 

[GreatestIam]

Yeah.......that "splains" it. Eve was not responsible for her Lawlessness because HER MOTHER (ADAM's DNA from a RIB) was responsible for her lawlessness. What part of Lawless do you not comprehend? Your own scriptures contradict your arugment.........SIN is imparted based upon each person's lawlessness. You have not even come close to proving via the Word of God that Eve was innocent of being lawless where there was only ONE LAW, and she was gulity of directly disobeying it.

Please explain how Ez. 18:20 or Deut. 24:16 dismisses sin as being an act of lawlessness on the part of the one committing the sin of ignorning God's law?

Bot.

When you read and follow logic and reason, I will write.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

ONE LAW, and she was gulity of directly disobeying it.

3 questions that will go un-answered.

Did Eve think disobeying to be good or evil, and where did she learn that?

Would you follow, or have you followed, a law that has you stay ignorant of what is good and what is evil?

Would you rather be moral or amoral?

Regards
DL

 

[Clyde 154]

3 questions that will go un-answered.

Did Eve think disobeying to be good or evil, and where did she learn that?

Would you follow, or have you followed, a law that has you stay ignorant of what is good and what is evil?

Would you rather be moral or amoral?

Regards
DL

Again, you can't defend your false doctrine with the actual content of the word of God. Do you base your knowledge of the Word of God on what PEOPLE might or might not think (claiming to have the capacity of mind reading) or do you follow the scriptures and never "Go beyond that which is written, as to not become puffed up and vain based upon the thinking of man instead of the actual words that are written"? You are not to even "THINK" beyond that which is written (1 Cor. 4:16). In fact Jesus dedicated an entire chapter as to His reasoning on replacing the actual word of God (the law) with man made thinking ....i.e., man's traditions replacing the word of God and thus making it none effective (Matthew 23). Such thinking ended with God allowing Jerusalem and Israel to be destroyed by the Roman Empire with the Jews being scattered all around the globe without a NATION/HOME. Just as He (God )promised the people of Biblical Isarel should they conntinue to practice lawlessness and ignore the word of God (the covenant of Moses.......the LAW) -- Lev. 26:27-39. Their nation would be taken from them, they would be driven from the land and their nation taken from them (Deut. 4:25-28, Deut. 8:19-20).

Jesus ends His chastisment of the Jewish leadership by declaring they would face total destruction within that same generation (Matthew 23:36) and Jesus' prophecy came true around A.D. 70

Now you wish to comand someone to "go beyond what is written......and become puffed up and proud with your personal opinions"? Really? I think not. You continue to ignore the words of Peter, Private interpretation is forbidden (2 Peter 1:19-21)

The scriptures explain just what EVE and ADAM were "thinking" when they began to practice lawlessness, they desired to "Be like one of us......." the Godhead (Genesis 3:22) Where does this leave room for you to privately interpret the very thoughts of the first WO (from man)MAN? Adam and Eve "thought" that Satan was showing them how to become gods.......just like another false doctrine taught by the father of lies.....men will become gods. Mormonism. Satan never changes tactics......he simply modernizes it to fit today's gullible socieity who never actually reads from the Word of God for themselves to find "if what is being instructed is based upon scriptural truth." As did the Christians at Thessalonis (Acts 17:11).

Some even totally ignore the word of God....and use their own versions of the Bible, created to mold around their own false doctrines.......instead of thinking beyond what is written........they write an entire new book, like Catholism, Jehovah's witnesses, Islam, the book of mormon....etc., all denying the words of inspiration from God that declares the FAITH as being ONCE DELIVERED to the saints of the 1st century (Jude 3).

In fact there is a warning in the Holy Scriptues.......not to add unto or take away from this book of revealed truth (Rev. 22:18-19).........in that book we are told that man will be judged upon the content of the Books......not on man's personal opinions.

Anyone that goes beyond that which is written/revealed...is either undereducated and gullible in not searching the scriptures for truth in the actual word of God or "unstable" in mind, and they are doomed to wrestle with all the scriptures to the point of their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).

 

[GreatestIam]

When you can answer simple questions, come back.

Try to be a better bot.

Regards
DL

 

[Cougarbear]

Which he cannot be, as that would have him break his law, as quoted and conveniently ignored.

Nice deflection attempt though.

It must be a copy past.

Get thee behind me Satan.

Regards
DL

As I pointed out, your crap is just that, crap. The atonement does not break any covenant of God. You show great ignorance. It's probably not your fault. What is your fault is to believe the lies.

 

[GreatestIam]

As I pointed out, your crap is just that, crap. The atonement does not break any covenant of God. You show great ignorance. It's probably not your fault. What is your fault is to believe the lies.

Stupid is as stupid posts.

Regards
DL

 

[Cougarbear]

Stupid is as stupid posts.

Regards
DL

Then stop posting and you will look smarter.

 

[Ivan88]

According to LDS church, one has to sin in order to have joy: Book of Mormon 2nd Nephi 2:23 "... they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy...., for they knew no sin."

When Adam was confronted by Yahuah, Adam said nothing about any snake tempting him; And promptly falsely accused Eve and the Creator. Thus Adam was symbolically a snake. Adam had full access to the Creator, and decided for himself to define good and evil; And what Adam wanted was good,, so Adam in effect cast the Creator out/murdered Him mentally. What Adam did was imprinted in his genetic code, and thus Cain did the same, doing what he wanted, which was to kill Abel.
Every son of Adam has this genetic trait, which is why Christ said only the overcomers enter the Kingdom of Heaven - New Yerusalem.

Overcomers put the Creator's Law 1st and their personal desires 2nd,

 

[Ropey]

Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?​

Neither Adam nor Eve had the scales lifted from their eyes prior to eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. iow They had no rationale for good/evil... since they were very good.

So, both ate of the tree's fruit after making the innocent choice.

No sins occurred before the eating of the fruit. Both were innocent.

Eve who's scales had been lifted by eating the fruit, then gave the fruit to Adam who was still innocent of the knowledge of good/evil.

Judaic thought is that Eve was a companion to Adam and as such, after her eyes' scales were lifted by eating of the fruit, she knew that Adam had to as well.

Or to be human puppets, never changing... living in a garden that resonated at G-d's spirit level...iow the level of very good.

The current prevailing Judaic view is the same as the ancient prevailing view:

They chose Eretz... to raise their spiritual levels knowingly.

 

[BS Filter]

Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.

Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

Adam and Eve weren't born. They were created from dust and a rib bone.

 

[BS Filter]

God had to get them away from the of Life or they would have lived forever in their fallen condition if they ate from the tree of life, with no chance of redemption in the world.